The Art of a Shave ... A Journey ...

[Paladin]

Over the years, from my first electric razor to gel/tech razors to learning REALLY how to shave via first Art of Shaving in NYC and then Charles Roberts, it's been a long, interesting journey to the "perfect shave". This is a great topic for most fellows. And ironically, it's something I've learned we've grown up doing absolutely the wrong way. I'm curious to know if anyone has heard of Charles Roberts, one of the two masters of shaving in the country? Here's his web site. Coincidentally, he happens to be right here in Austin, TX--I stumbled upon him on the internet in my constant search for superior shaving products:

http://www.enchanteonline.com/

Charles has several articles about shaving on his site, and they're all worthwhile. For many years, I used the common gel shave products, tech razor and shaved in the shower. I use and do none of that now. My products and technicques have changed drastically and my face has benefitted from the change.

The search to perfect the ultimate shave for me actually started by accident, as so many journeys do. I was in Manhattan on business and during some down time actually stumbled upon "The Art of Shaving", when it first opened several years ago. It was a small shop in midtown on Madison Ave

http://www.theartofshaving.com/cgi/SoftCart.exe/scstore/v3/home.html?E+scstore

I stopped in and was immediately intrigued by the old-world feel of the place and it's appeal dikrectly to something that was uniquely masculine--shaving your face. Face it (no pun inteneded), we don't pay much attention to this "chore" that we do almost every day. It's something many of us do quickly, almost as an afterthought in order to get on with the day. Well, I made an appointment to have my first barber shave, picking their "Royal Shave" and taking an hour and a half in luxury that many of us guys rarely experience. I took the shave and an education from the elderly barber who didn't mind answering my questions and providing my first lesson in "Shaving 101". I have since also taken pleasurable shaves when in London at Taylors of Old Bond Street (England's old world, was around much earlier than America's).

http://www.tayloroldbondst.com/

First, no gels--the chemicals kill your skin. No foams, same thing. Use shaving soap and a good brush (I'll let you know below what my shaving tools are). While he used a straight razor, that's not necessary and more for show. You can get a fine shave using a Merkur double-edge (and I use two razors for my shaves, which, again, I'll get to). The technique is a combination of hot water, soap, cream, massage and metal--along with using different directions to shave. I do four stages of bladework for every shave now. It takes longer, but you only have one face, eh? That experience at Art of Shaving was my start on the education. I bought their products and began using pre-shave oil to set up the beard, shave soap, after-shave balm. Still in the shower every day. All that stopped and I became a better shaver after meeting Charles Roberts six months ago, and went through a private session to learn his technique.

Now, at this point, my tools are thus:

Shaving soap cube and Trumper shaving cream, all lathered while standing together at the sink, using my hand as a "board" and the brush as my, well, brush.

Shave balm

"Cutting balm" made up by Charles

Spray tonic (again, Charles' concoction)

Simpson's Silver-Tip Best Badger Persian Jar brush (Simpsons is commonly recognized as the best brush you can buy worldwide--not cheap, but you can have them bury it with you for those shaves in the afterlife)

Double-edge Merkur razor

Mach III razor

This post has run long, and I just want to kick off the subject, so I'll end here for now. I'd encourage you to read Charles' articles on wet shaving:

http://www.enchanteonline.com/pages/men/shavinggraces/shavinggraces.htm

I can walk you through my personal method of daily shaving if you'd like to hear it, what I've learned from Charles and slightly modified for my own style and need. And make no mistake about it, this is not some excercise in spa-treatment--as quoted on Charles' web site:

"It would be foolish for a man to invest the time and money for the best clothes and ignore his grooming needs...It would be criminal not to make such an endeavor as pleasurable as possible."

Let me know if you'd like to hear more--and I'd like to hear your thoughts on technique and tools as well. I'm always open to new things.

[Nathan Flowers]

I would definitely like to hear more, if you're willing to post it. It sounds like you're a wealth of information on a subject that I'd bet almost all of us around here have a knowledge gap in.

[Paladin]

I'd be happy to, Zohar. I'm on the way out for a few hours, but will come back later to provide further info. What method do you use to shave, out of curiosity? It would be helpful for others to share what they're doing now.

[Nathan Flowers]

Always a long hot shower pre-shave.
After shower wet face again, use Saxon beard conditioner (very hard to find, it's not alcohol based)
Lather face with glycerine soap and badger hair brush (it's a rather cheap brush). Spend about 2 minutes lathering.
Shave once with the grain.
Re lather with glycerine soap and brush.
Shave again across (sideways) the grain.
Cold water on the face to close pores.

[Canadave]

I'd like to hear too!

Here's my routine;

Monday: Gillette Sensor with a "La Cie de Provence Shaving Cream With olive-oil".

Tuesday - Friday: Braun electric razor

(No aftershave with either.)

Saturday/Sunday: I don't shave unless I HAVE to.

That's it. I'm open to change as I realise there are some weaknesses.

David

[Paladin]

Unfortunately, I got back late this evening and I'm about to turn in. However, in the meantime if anyone is up burning the midnight oil tonight and wants to post their current shaving regimen, I'd be happy to include it in picking back up on this thread tomorrow. I'll share with you my specific technique and incorporate the tools, and provide some commentary on your individual shaving routines.

See you tomorrow after my morning shave!

[louisberry]

Paladin,

I, for one, have been anxiously awaiting the conclusion of your post. Frankly, I normally lurk around the forums...this is actually my first post.

While the idea of something more than a rushed whack at my face in the mornings (Mon- Fri only, of course) has been in the back of my mind for a few weeks, your post got my attention and I (along with other, judging by the views to the thread) am wondering where the rest of the story is.

Waiting patiently..........and thank you in advance for your insights and invaluable instructions.

[Canadave]

I've been waiting too, louisberry. Maybe we'll nudge him into responding. ;)

Welcome, by the way!

David

[Paladin]

My most humble apologies, gents. The week just got away from me. So I'm back and will take you through my shaving regimen--especially for the glorious Fourth of July weekend. Perhaps some of you may have some time to try a few of my suggestions! Now forgive me in advance because some of this is easier to show someone in person rather than write the instructions. But I'll do my best..........

Firstly, let me review the tools first, then we'll go into the step by step process:

1. I purchased a small metal wire caddy with handle from the Container Store that perfectly holds all my shaving supplies and implements, keep it stowed under the sink and away from my wife's complaints about taking too much room. I do, however, display my brush and Mach 3 razor (with Persian jug mock ivory handles) standing upright by the sink, the Merkur double edge on the sink to keep aired out Also a nice large cup/dish to place shaving soap cube as well for easy access and drying between shaves. All else is under the sink ready to be rolled out and placed nearby for use.

2. Tools--Simpson Persian Jug-handled best silver badger bristle brush (a worthwhile investment, makes a big difference in applying soap and cream); Floris of London Persian Jug-handled Gillette Mach 3 razor; Merkur short-handled double edge stainless adjustable razor

3. Products--Soap cube from Enchante, Trumper shaving cream in tube (there are many you can use, I also have a tube of Mr. Taylors from Taylors of Old Bond Street that are available in many fragrances--I happen to use coconut to remind me of the winds of the Caribbean), moisturizing shaving cream balm, spray tonic, cutting balm (all from Enchante).

4. Shaving technique:

a) Preparing the shaving lather or "substrate"--Usually after a hot shower in the morning (but not a necessary step), I put my brush and soap cube in the sink, letting hot running water over them. After about a minute, enough to get them soaked, I close the draine and start filling up the sink with hot water until about 1/3 full, then I turn off all cold water and reduce the hot to just a trickle (what I refer to as "firewater". I pick up the brush and soap cube and begin work the brush on the cube until I get enough lathered soap on the brush (this is where showing is better than writing about it). I then begin lathering up the soap using my left hand as a pallete, mixing up a good lather on my hand with the brush. I do that for a few minutes, then squirt about a half inch of shaving cream on my left hand. I continue working up a lather, mixing the soap and cream. Periodically, I'll pump the brush on my hand, forming a pocket among the bristles. I hold the brush briefly under the "firewater" to recharge the hot water into the brush, filling up the small pocket. Then I continue to mix the lather for a few minutes until I feel it's ready for my face. I then begin with my neck to start and beginning freely applying the lather on my face. Whenever I feel I need to recharge the hot water into the brush, I will pump the brush on my face to create the pocket and make the lather wetter and hotter on my face. Just a little trick Charles taught me so I don't have to apply water directly on my face or dilute the lather on the brush by holding it under a full stream of water. Okay, my face is now lathered with a hot combination of soap and cream, ready for my first bladework. (BTW, there's a technique I use with my left hand to keep any falling lather on the brush--it's valuable stuff for the shave! I use the pinky from my right hand--the "Trigger Finger", which I'll explain later--to wipe all lather from my left hand, or pallete, and apply to the brush.) The brush is set aside upright.

b) Facial quadrants--Okay, think of your face as divided into four quadrants. One is from your right ear, across your cheek to the center of your nose and mouth, down to the line of your jaw. The second is the same territory, only on the left side of your face. The third is from the right jaw line, down your throat, over to the middle of your chin. The fourth is the same only on the left side. It's important to use these quadrants so you have a map for your bladework.

c) Bladework--Now it's time for your first blade-run (my term, not the movie). Use the hot water in your sink to thorougly wet and heat your Merkue double-edge. Keep the razor closed to the first position, do not open--especially during the first few months of shaving. You can really cut up your face by opening an adjustable double-edge if your face (or technique) isn't ready for it. Also, because of the dynamics of a double-edge razor, usually one side has more cutting edge than the other. Get the feel for which side it is as you're shaving. Run you razor down straight north and sourth for each quadrant. While you're shaving, get the feel for your face. This is an important point. Most of us have settled into automatic pilot when we're shaving all these years. We're in a routine, we don't really enjoy it and we just need to get past it to get on with the day. As a result, we don't alow our hands to get the feel for our faces--or think about what we're doing and connect with our hands, what they're feeling and what we're thinking at the moment.

A break from the discription for an example of what I'm talking about: One of my all-time favorite TV shows from my Wonder Bread Years was "Secret Agent Man" with Patrick McGoohan. It was also known as "Danger Man" in the UK and when it first showed in the early 60's. But one thing I always noticed and admired about the character, John Drake, was his elegant method of setting up his spy gadgets. His fingers were always very nimble and almost like playing a piano. If you get the chacne to rent the DVD's of the show, take a look at what I'm talking about. He had very intelligent and elegant hands and fingers--always being in touch with his equipment and creating and using his hardware very effectively. I use this example to compare with how we utilize our tools, products and apply to the face during our shaving experience. Well, I digress.....

I'll post this in case you want to take a break, and proceed with my next post continuing the process....

[Paladin]

4. c) Bladework continued.....

Okay, you've down your first pass at your face, the north/south. Lather up your face again, recharging your brush with "firewater" when you need it. Your next blade-run is at a 45 degree angle DOWN from your ear, to the center of your face. This downward 45 degree angle should be maintained in all four quadrants until complete. The sole acception is under the nose and the chin, under the mouth. I have a mustache so don't shave the upper lip. But if you don'[t, that should always be north to south (until the last blade-run).

BTW, what I referred to earlier as the "trigger finger" is the pinky of the right hand (or left if your lefty). When using a wet/slick short-handled stainless double-edge razor, it can get out of control I found that I was cutting myself because I couldn't control the actually razor since it was so slippery. I perfected a technique using my pinky under the handle (at it's point) of the razor to keep it steady and stable.

Next blade-run is at a 45 degree angle UPWARD from the outside of your face toward the center of your face. In otherwords, I'm almost cross-hatching my bladework. In order to lather up this time, I take my brush, wrap my left hand around the bristles, and, twisting the handle of the brush, squeeze the lather out and onto my hand. I then squirt some cutting balm into the lather and mix it up with both hands. I apply the lather mixture with both hands to my face. It's a nice cooling feeling on the skin. Once completed--and don't be afraid to work your face with your fingers--I perform my third blade run at the UPWARD 45 degree angle. Try to continue getting a feel for your face with the razor. Don't use the blade too quickly, just enjoy the time.

Alright, you have made three blade-runs so far--now it's time for your last. What is called "free-blading". It's the last cut for catching the places you missed and/or detailing your face. Rinse off all soap in the sink. Two squirts of "cutting balm" in the hand and a thorough massaging into the face and neck. Time for the Tach 3 razor. Get it hot uner the "firewater", then "touch-shave" each quadrant. This is actually running your fingers over your skin to feel where you might need the balde. I like to run once in each direction quickly by quadrant. I'm constantly running my fingers ahead of the razor in order to determine where it's needed. Almost a massage. Most gents know where the toughest place on their face is to cut. Mine is my under-chin and neck, right in the middle of my face. And that tough patch right over the Adam's Apple. For some reason hari doesn't want to be cut there. In that particular situation, I hit it with all three directions until my fingers feel it's done. I never shave in directly the opposite of hair growth, but cross-hatching. I've also perfected "blade-buffing", where I lightly and quickly wisk the Tech 3 over my chin point and under the chin to remove any stubborn stubble. It really is like razor-buffing your face. All in the strong-hand wrist and gaining a feel for the terrain of your skin with your weak hand.

That ends the blade-work, four runs. It sounds like it will take forever. But actually the more you do it and re-acquaint yourself with your face by touch, it can go as fast or slow as you want it to.

5. Wrap-up and completion--I drain the sink and wash off the brush and razors. My technique for thoroughly cleaning out the brush is to again use my hand as a pallet and hold it under the water, brushing the pallet until it's clear of soap. Briskly shake out the bristles until it's clear and ready to air-dry. Rinse off your face of cutting balm and lather. Immediately and thoroughly massage your face with the moisturizing shaving cream balm. All of your face, just go to town. It's a brisk massage and feels great. Start putting away your gear and products. Then spritz your face all over, as the balm is settling, with spray tonic and massage again--face, forehead, neck. Your face begins to feel very alive and healthy. Like you're really paying attention to it.

I always keep a towel hanging nearby to use to mop up any stray lather during the process, water, etc. Very important to keep the area clean and as dry as you can. Also keep the spouse happy.

By the time I'm done, my face is as smooth as a baby's bottom. And feeling great! Eventually you shouldn't need it, but if you require something to stop any bleeding from nicks or abrasions use an alum block. Immediately stops any pesky bleeding, just wet and run it under your chin or wherever. Now that I've been using this technique for several months, it's rarely required. As time goes on, I'll be able to adjust the setting of my double-edge during the shave to provide further cutting edge. But not until my fingers tell me it's needed.

Well, I've really whipped through the process for you here. I hope I gave enough detail. If not, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you need anything elaborated, just let me know.

Hope this is helpful. Enjoy your shave, experience a moment that's unique to the male. And be kind to your face, gents.

[Paladin]

Canadave--BTW, an electric razor is like using a weed-eater to pull hair out of your face. No electric razor can do the job of hot steel and lather. It's a shortcut, but just doesn't come close to what you can do with your own fingers and technique.

And I forgot to mention--aftershave or cologne on the body afterward, never on the face.

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
...Firstly, let me review the tools first, then we'll go into the step by step process:...[lots of dots!!!]...And be kind to your face, gents.

Wow, I'm sorry I asked! ;) Just kidding, that was great. I'm going to need some time to absorb it all - much like my face will absorb the soap/cream combo.

Can you describe your Merkur razor? Or point us to a picture of it via a link?


Originally posted by Paladin
Canadave--BTW, an electric razor is like using a weed-eater to pull hair out of your face. No electric razor can do the job of hot steel and lather. It's a shortcut, but just doesn't come close to what you can do with your own fingers and technique.

You're right...it's a shortcut, and one I think I'll be taking less frequently now!

Thanks a lot,

David

[Paladin]

Dave,
Here's a link to the Merkur double-edge adjustable razor:

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/catalogue/merkur-progress-safety-razor.aspx?cat=C

As described in the listing, it's a classic razor that is basically the same as it has been over decades. Something I know many of the gents here will appreciate.

[Paladin]

Here's also a link to the various products that I describe above that I regularly use:

http://www.enchanteonline.com/pages/men/caroberts/caroberts.htm

My suggestions:
Roberts Cutting Balm (get a big one, you'll use it liberally)

Aftershave moisterizing cream--Peppermint (I referred to it above as "moisterizing shaving cream balm")

Spray Tonic (I use grapefruit, believe it or not--it's great)

Shave cube

Trumper or Coates shaving cream in tube

A little tip that Charles shared with me, and I do this if I'm shaving on a day that I'll be going out for a social event or something. After shaving completely, I'll take just a touch of the Cutting Balm on a finger and apply lightly to my cheeks and chin. Just a little dab'l do ya. It gives your face a nice satin finish, an old-time fresh-shaved look and feels good too. Hey, why can't us guys look freshly barbered upon stepping out, eh?

[louisberry]

Paladin,

Many thanks...definitely have to give your method a try.

I can honestly say that I never thought I would be trying a safety razor again, but what the heck. Just a quick question on the Mach 3 handle. I can find a Floris Santal Mach 3, but where did you come across the Persian jug-handled model?

Again, thanks for the education...

[Paladin]

Louisberry,

The Floris razor is a basic handle. It isn't sold as a Persian Jug, but I describe it as that because it matches the Simpson Persian Jug-handled brush. Here is what I'm referring to:

http://www.florislondon.com/FlorisSite/pages/product/product.asp?ctlg=FlorisUS&ctgry=Product%5FShaving%5FRazors

And here is the Simpson brush I refer to:

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/catalogue/Simpsons-super-badger-brush.aspx?cat=A

Glad you found the information helpful.

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
Dave,
Here's a link to the Merkur double-edge adjustable razor:

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/catalogue/merkur-progress-safety-razor.aspx?cat=C


Thanks, Paladin. Is that a higher-end model than this one?; http://www.adiscountbeauty.com/page465.html (scroll down for the "Merkur Double Edge Razor #MK337C").

David

[Paladin]

I don't know for sure, but it looks like it is. Mine has the plastic knob and extra blades. The one I described seems like more of the "old school" double-edge.

[Paladin]

I was wondering if anyone had tried some of my outlined techniques. I visited Charles Roberts at Enchante on Friday and re-stocked on some of my products. He literally has gents flying in from around the country to do shaving clinics with him. I was in the shop a month ago just as someone was coming in from Chicago. If you want to experiment with my suggestions, best time to try is on the weekend when you have some free time and aren't pressed to get to work. If it sounds as if it will take too long to shave with my suggestions, it gets much shorter as you get used to doing it. Bottom line is I now give myself the best shave I've ever had. And my wife will attest to that--which as most of us know, is very important!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'm happy to help.

[Canadave]

I'm spending more time making sure my beard is really "wet". I wash my face, use soap all over my face...leave it on and apply my olive oil shave cream, rubbing it around well, then add some foam on top of that. Even with these basic techniques and products, I notice an improvement, even with the same razor as always.

One step at a time.

David

[Paladin]

I'm curious, what type of olive oil shave cream do you use?

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
I'm curious, what type of olive oil shave cream do you use?

"La Cie de Provence Shaving Cream With olive-oil". I'm sure you've heard of it! ;)

David

[Brad Bowers]

If I tried it, would I be hungry for Italian food all day?LOL

Brad

[MK]

This is a great thread. I use a Norelco electric. I haven't used a blade on my face in over ten years. It takes but a few minutes and I am done.

Never the less, this is intriguing. I love old world style. I will have to get a shave in London on my next visit and experience what you guys are talking about.

[Paladin]

Brad--If you use it on your face, you can also slick back your hair with it.

MK--Stop by Taylor's of Old Bond Street on Jermyn Street in London for a shave when you're in town. I know an electric razor is the quickest method to shave. I used to own a '57 Chevy convertible and was into all the old extra options. They started offering dashboard plug-in electric razors for "the man on the go" back then. But sometimes fastest isn't best. I'd recommend that you try returning to that magic moment of the morning for a man....an old-school shave. Look at it as not something to get through with--but something to savor. A little corner of your day when you indulge in the same ritual that men did in the slower, less hurried times. Think of it as restoring an appreciation for a lost art that's been forgotten.

[MK]

I like that idea. I am looking forward to trying it.

Thanks for the tip in London. I will go there in the fall.

[Canadave]

Here's my poison, Paladin.

shave juice (http://www.frenchrendezvous.com/cp2/compagnieprovenceaftershave.jpg)

David

[Paladin]

Where did you get the stuff, Dave?

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
Where did you get the stuff, Dave?

Just a little independant home furnishing/giftware/beauty products shop around the corner from where I live. My wife got me a tube after Christmas for 1/2 price, so I ran over and got a second tube. Still working on them.

Never heard of it, right?

David

[Paladin]

Nope, never heard of it. But that in itself doesn't mean much. Hey, if it works and feels comfortable then that's what matters. You may try an application to your face using a shaving brush. Stimulates the skin and lathers up nicely.

[SHARPETOYS]

Paldin wrote,

Nope, never heard of it. But that in itself doesn't mean much. Hey, if it works and feels comfortable then that's what matters. You may try an application to your face using a shaving brush. Stimulates the skin and lathers up nicely.

You can order it from here.

http://www.frenchrendezvous.com/compagniedeprovence.htm

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
You may try an application to your face using a shaving brush. Stimulates the skin and lathers up nicely.

Like this?;

brush (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/canadave_2000/detail?.dir=/5806&.dnm=d3cf.jpg)


It was my father's. I have no idea of the quality, but before you diss it, remember the sentamental value! ;)

David

[Paladin]

Dave,
I couldn't open the photo, it asked for a password. But if the brush was your father's then it doesn't matter what I or anyone else think of it. It's got great history. It gave your dad a great shave, I'm sure. If it was good enough for him, I'm sure you will have no problem with it. However, I have one suggestion. I don't know what kind of shape it's in, but you may want to preserve it since it's a father/son item. If it were me, I would put it on a little stand or shelf next to where I shave and not actually use it--other than for inspiration. A superior-quality Simpson silver badger brush will last generations. But I'd collect your dad's shaving utensils, if you can find any others, and put them in a special place. But I'm sentimental like that.

[Canadave]

Yeah, Sharpie PMd me and told me that link didn't work. I tried something different, 'cause my usual method for posting pics seems to be out o' bidness (FreePgs). The site won't open, and earlier pics I've posted on this site are gone (Hawaiian shirts). Guess I may have to go Fotki, like many others here.

Anyway, the brush is a "Victoria". The word appears in Upper Case, in a triangle with a picture of a boar's head above it. Below it says "Pure Bristle Sterilized". The handle seems to be a hard plastic or possibly bakelite. The bottom (handle) is green and the mid section is white. Ring a bell at all?

I don't think there are any other remaining shaving implements of his...saving this is a good idea, but I also like the idea of actually using it.

Keep well,

David

[Paladin]

From your description, it doesn't sound familiar. But I bet if you do some googling, you'll come up with a chat forum on shaving tools that will tell you exactly what it is.

An idea--use the brush once, to bring closure to the father/son tie. Then retire and preserve it. You'll make the one use a special experience, a message to your dad. And then perhaps--if you have a son or grandson--have him use it once some day when he's ready. Pass it down through generations--make it a male family ritual. One shave--maybe even the first--and pass it on down.

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Paladin
...An idea--use the brush once, to bring closure to the father/son tie. Then retire and preserve it. You'll make the one use a special experience, a message to your dad. And then perhaps--if you have a son or grandson--have him use it once some day when he's ready. Pass it down through generations--make it a male family ritual. One shave--maybe even the first--and pass it on down.

Man, you are one sentimental dude! ;) I like it!

Problem - I've already used it many times, and I don't (and won't) have any kids...so no son, grandson or son-in-law.

Great ideas and I appreciate them. In this case, however, it might be best to use it until it falls apart. At least I'll get enjoyment out of it...there's really no-one else to appreciate it.:cry:

David

[Paladin]

Yep, I'm just a sentimental guy....my wife loves it. Well, aside from my suggestions....whatever is right for you is the right thing to do. You can't lose. Use it, enjoy it.

[Canadave]

Hey, here's the brush I couldn't post before. FreePgs is back up!!!

http://www.freepgs.com/canadave/brush.JPG

David

[Paladin]

Very nice, Dave. I like the green handle, makes it easy to pick up the lather and apply to the face. Looks like it'll work well. Enjoy!

[Canadave]

Holy keerap! Paladin, did you see this whole thread?

http://fedoralounge.skyblueproductions.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182&highlight=merkur

David

[SHARPETOYS]

I just got this razor off ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256851923&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

I also got this vintage travel kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256948799&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

I have about $50.00 in total for the razor and kit with postage.:D :D

[Paladin]

Very nice razor and kit--and for next to nothing! But now you've turned me on to eBay shaving items. I'm going to be hovering over there to find some nice things. I'm impressed with the deal!

Dave--I saw that thread before, interesting stuff.

[Canadave]

Originally posted by SHARPETOYS
I just got this razor off ebay...

Hey, congrats man! Great price.

David

[SHARPETOYS]

I think i'm done with shaving gear. I got this to go with my razor. I saw the same set for 150.00. Ebay does have the deals. I bid 1 cent more than the next bidder. I never bid a even amount.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5507613917&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

[Paladin]

Okay, thanks for turning me on to the razors on eBay....you have now created a monster! I'm putting a full court press on a number of Rolls Razors of varying vintages. My eBay name is Paladin917 in case you check it out. Ah, the unique sound of the wallet opening in front of the eBay screen......trust me, when I pursue, it's like the Terminator. Focused, fingers flying over the keyboard. It's very sad...;)

[Bogie1943]

My close friend Joe recently bought a straight razor, he loves the thing more than any other. He has been learning how to properly shave with it. He brought it over the other day to show it off, a fine item indeed, very nice one, my lord the thing is sharp. It is by far one of the sharpest things I have ever held, besides a scalpal of course.

[SHARPETOYS]

Paladin wrote

Okay, thanks for turning me on to the razors on eBay....you have now created a monster! I'm putting a full court press on a number of Rolls Razors of varying vintages. My eBay name is Paladin917 in case you check it out. Ah, the unique sound of the wallet opening in front of the eBay screen......trust me, when I pursue, it's like the Terminator. Focused, fingers flying over the keyboard. It's very sad...


We will be watching you and hope you win all you bids!
What makes the Rolls razor good?

[Paladin]

Thanks for the support! Here's a couple of links on the Rolls Razor to fill you in:

http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/3696/Intros02.html

http://www.creekstone.net/razors/rollsrazor.htm

[Canadave]

Hey, I've seen these things in the case lots of times (at flea markets, antique stores, etc.). Didn't really know what they were. The instruction sheets linked to one of your links makes it look rather deadly.

Have you used one?

David

[Paladin]

Here's my first Rolls Razor conquest, the oldest I've seen around. Probably from back when they first came out in 1927:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2258626995&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

I've never used one, but I'm bidding on one in pristine condition and will try it out. If you hear the screaming from central Texas next week, it wasn't a great shave.....The thing I like about it is it's an unusual razor, very creative. And it was known as the "upper class" razor in many cases. Fine quality, well made. Now when you see them at flea markets, take a look through it. Check condition, does it have all the pieces AND the instructions, and the blade packet? This definitely is more interesting than just your normal old Gillettes. Plus I'm an Anglophile, so British products are of interest to me.

[Paladin]

Here are my ongoing purchases on eBay of various Rolls Razors--thought you'd be interested in checking them out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2258097721&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257999768&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257993456&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257063666&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

[Canadave]

Get your tetanus shot!!! :D

David

[SHARPETOYS]

Paladin
How many faces are you going to shave???
They look nice but i'm to chicken to use one.:D LOL :D

[Paladin]

I'll have to examine each one VERY carefully. There are one or two I'm getting that are literally unused. But I'll probably just display a few sets. One set I plan to gift to Charles Roberts for display in one of his glass cases in his shop downtown.

[Paladin]

This probably is the nicest of the Rolls Razors I closed on over at eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2258377382&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

I just loved the travel case. Very classy.......

Here's the second one today I closed on:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2258494651&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

But out of all that I've won on eBay in the past week, I think the Traveler above is the nicest. I have two more I'm bidding on and will post them once they're closed.

So call me obsessive....at least it's about the finer things, eh?

[MK]

Hey Paladin, this is a great thread. Would you be willing to put all this information into an article for The Golden Era?

[Paladin]

I'd be happy to, MK. Why don't you PM me and let me know what I need to do. Thanks for the invitation.

[Pyroxene]

Hey Paladin,

I acutally own that book "The Art of Shaving" It was a pretty interesting read. Let me know if you need some info.

BTW, where in Texas are you located? I am in the San Marcos area just south of Austin.

Pyro

[Paladin]

I'm up in Austin right up the highway construction from you. You should make an appointment to visit Charles Roberts. His shop is on the south side of town, by Lamar and Ben White. You'd enjoy visiting with him.

[MK]

Have you guys seen this book:

http://www.cachebeauty.com/wholsale/images/book2.gif

I received it as a gift from Runquist. I will scan a few pics if you are interested.

[Paladin]

I for one would love to see some of the pics. Thanks for offering.

[Nathan Flowers]

Originally posted by MK
Have you guys seen this book:

http://www.cachebeauty.com/wholsale/images/book2.gif

I received it as a gift from Runquist. I will scan a few pics if you are interested.

Egad, I didn't know such a thing existed! Terrific find!

[MK]

I just bought this one:

http://www.theartofshaving.com/taos/images/products/large/67007.jpg

Now I need to buy some accessories.

This is getting expensive.

You guys are a bad influence.;)

[Paladin]

MK--That's a great razor, you should enjoy it. I have the same one. Now, as for accessorizing.....what do you have in mind and I'll make some suggestions? Bad influence...you have noooooo idea ;)

[MK]

Thanks. I looked at the accouterments that you use. I just spent fifty bucks on a razor. I am not willing to drop two c-notes on a brush, creams and lotions yet. I would like to get whatever I need to get me started. I don't like to buy cheap stuff then find I want something better. I usually will acquire in stages. That is why I sprang for a top razor.

One of my customers owns a major brush company. They make over 500 different brushes. I don't know if they make a shaving brush, but I am going to speak to him.

I imagine that a brush and some soap or cream would allow me to at least shave with the razor.

What do you suggest?

BTW: That razor is built like a tank. It is exactly the way a West Germen would design a razor. I think it could survive a nuclear blast.

[SHARPETOYS]

This is a great razor, i got this one off Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2256851923&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT#ebayphotohosting

[SHARPETOYS]

MK, this goes off in 10 hours. Looks good to me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5513368864&fromMakeTrack=true

[Paladin]

Art--great razor acquisition on eBay. If I had seen it, I probably would have gone after it myself. I've been pretty busy, so took my eye off the ball. I'll have to get back to it. I guess my recent acquisition of eight Rolls Razors left me exhausted. I haven't even been able to read the instructions for the Rolls yet. But when I do, I'll post something on it.

MK--I understand your approach and agree. The razor was the best investment you made up front. That's the engine that drives the car. Next up would be a brush when you can--I'd highly recommend the Simpson.

But the creams and lotions and stuff--as long as they're non-chemical and natural ingredients, use what makes you feel good and works for you. I would recommend if you purchase only one shaving product that you get the "cutting balm" that Charles makes, and use the Mach III as a final trimming razor with the balm.

Once you've made the investment in your basic tools, they won't change. I have about five different brushes that I purchased and tried over the years until I learned about the Simpsons. Now the brushes sit in my cabinet and I use only the Simpson. Once you use the best, you understand why the rest are just that...the rest.

[MK]

Here are some pictures from my book.

http://www.thegoldenera.net/images/misc/VABS2.jpg

http://www.thegoldenera.net/images/misc/VABS4.jpg

http://www.thegoldenera.net/images/misc/VABS5.jpg

Enjoy!

[MK]

Originally posted by Paladin

MK--I understand your approach and agree. The razor was the best investment you made up front. That's the engine that drives the car. Next up would be a brush when you can--I'd highly recommend the Simpson.

Once you've made the investment in your basic tools, they won't change. I have about five different brushes that I purchased and tried over the years until I learned about the Simpsons. Now the brushes sit in my cabinet and I use only the Simpson. Once you use the best, you understand why the rest are just that...the rest.

Which Simpson do you have?

[Paladin]

I have two Simpsons. My first was a Super Badger Chubby handle. A great, great brush. But the handle just wasn't conducive to a good grip when hands are wet and using a vigorous brush stoke. I purchased a Persian Jug handle (the best for the right wet-handed grip) in Super Silver Tip Badger (not a Best Badger, which is a step under the Super). Here's the brush I purchased from Charles:

http://www.enchanteonline.com/pages/men/caroberts/caroberts2.htm

http://www.gentlemans-shop.com/catalogue/Simpsons-super-badger-brush.aspx?cat=A

Eventually I'll buy a Manchurian brush from Charles. But I'll wait until my Lotto number comes in.

[Andykev]

I used the old razor that was in a box, the kind Dad used. I watched him shave very closely for years, when I was just a little guy.

This is what happened when I was done.
LOL

[Nathan Flowers]

LOL! Kevin that's hilarious!

[MK]

Agreed. That was great!

[jamespowers]

Geez, That looks like a forensic exam drawing! LOL LOL
I am going to stay away from straight razors it that is what can happen. I am surprised the nose is still attached to the face! LOL Call that man a doctor! ;)

Regards to all,

J

[MK]

My colleague is sending me a brush. I will let you know how it is.

[Bogie1943]

I have seen a lot of fine shaving sets, the really nice ones with ivory or fine porcelen handles, they go for quit a lot but they are so nice it is worth it if you can spare the cash. Seems like the brushes are often more expensive than the razors, they are very fine items, wish I could find a really fine vintage set for cheap some where, I have been looking, no real luck yet, I will keep you posted.

[stevecolvin]

Paladin - do I understand correctly that you use your DE for the first passes, then your Mach3 for touch & cut?

[Paladin]

Steve--It sounds like you've been reading Charles Roberts' material ("touch and cut"). Yes, DE for three blade runs (down, angle down, angle up), then the Mach3 for final trim & buffiing.

[Ardbeg98]

I've been following this thread for some time and decided to join the forum primarily to let Paladin know what a fantastic job he did in describing his own approach to the Roberts Method of Wet Shaving. Veu well-done, Palidin. I actually read the postings the night before I visited Chas. Roberts in his Austin, Tx, Enchante store to receive a shaving clinic from him. For those of you able to get to Austin, I highly recommend the experience. I called Roberts from my home in the Washington, DC, area and explained that I could only visit on a Sunday, a day the store is normally closed. No matter. Roberts offered to open for me and essentially gave me his entire afternoon. Roberts is a driven person who freely expresses his view that he is ushering in a third revolution in shaving (check the enchanteonline.com website for a full description of the first two). He is a wonderful, motivating teacher who sees himself as a mentor to his students. As he makes his points, he looks straight at you so that you your mind doesn't dare wander; he covers a vast array of topics such as his own philosophy of shaving, the history of shaving, his view of the business and the products being marketed, etc. He is generous and good humored, speaking fondly of the many men he has trained in his method. It's clear that he stays in touch with many of them.

Following an expansive discussion, we repair to the back of the store to a sink where he demonstrates what a shaving brush needs to do. Following this, we go back to the store front where I decide on the shaving brush I will buy. Then we go back to the sink and shave! Charles shows me how to execute a first approximation of his method (very much as Paladin describes). [I'm told that I will given more training after I become proficient with basic techniques.] Following this we go out front to review and discuss a variety of matters. When I say "discuss," I mean it. Roberts turns out to be a very good listener. It's clear that he isn't afraid to modify and improve as he discovers more. As for me: Basking the glow of a really good shave, I buy quite a bit of product, making his Sunday trip to the store less of a sacrifice for him, I'm sure.

If you happen to log on to some of the wet shaving forums on the web, you'll see a bit of sniping aimed at Charles Roberts. But this doesn't come from his customers, I can assure you. As you might imagine, I spent a good deal of cash at Enchante. But no buyers remorse here. Quite the opposite! The brush I bought is all that it is supposed to be and more (a glorious Simpson's Chubby #3 extra super "Machurian")! And I just love the other products that I bought: the shave cube, the Trumper's cream, the cutting balm, the aftershave cream, and the tonic. Enchante the store turns out to be a gem. It is the type of place you might expect to find in Manhattan or London or Paris, but it happens to be located next to a "Tuesday Morning" in south Austin. Isn't America great!

Which brings me to a couple of points that I wanted to make: The Roberts Method (actually it is a collection of methods adjusted to the skill level of the shaver) is really a complete system of facial care built around shaving. Sounds silly I know, it turns out that the whole activity itself is a pleasurable and invigorating one. When you finish you feel good and ready for the day. The Roberts approach is not just about wet shaving.

About the recommended tools: The method requires the use of a large, well made badger brush that holds water and releases it in a controlled way for the creation of a great amount of wet lather that needs to last through the entire shave (remember that you have to lather at least 4 times during the shave so this is important). A large brush made from silver tip badger fur is ideal because of its moisture aborbing qualities. And Simpson's is one of only a couple of makers actually using silver tip fur, even though several other companies claim that they do. I mentioned that the brush has to be well-made. Why? Because in developing the lather using the Robert's techniques you are putting the brush under considerable stress. You pump the brush on the soap to load repeatedly and then you develop the lather by swirling it. In applying the lather to the face, you scrub rather than paint on the lather. These factors together mean that you need to have an excellent brush for the Robert's method. If you are not using the Robert's method or similar approach, then there are many other fine (and more economically sensible) brushes on the market that should satisfy your needs. Can you do the Roberts method without a-top-of-the-line brush? Of course. You just have to work harder.

Finally, why a double edge (DE) safety razor? What about my tried-and-true Mach 3? Is this some kind of affectation or is the use of a DE necessary? I asked this of Charles and he gave me a very sensible answer. The Roberts Method, he said, uses large volumes of water and lots of rich, well-developed lather. A DE razor is well-suited for this kind of shaving--much more so than the Mach 3. He went on to explain that the Gillette Mach 3 System is really geared to a different kind of shaving. The blades are shallow, so you constantly have to keep rinsing the razor when you have a lot of lather. Second, as Gillette advertises. the whole approach to cutting is different with a Mach 3. There are three blades in a row. In shaving, the first blade holds the whiskers in place and the other two blades cut. All of these factors put together are why Roberts reserves the Mach 3 for the final part of the shave, after you have rinsed the cream and applied his oil-based cutting balm. Here the Mach 3 shines, taking off any residual beard left from the DE work! (Are there any advantages to the Mach 3 over the DE? I think so: It's much easier to cut yourself with a DE if you are inexperienced.)

Well, I've dragged on a lot longer than I had planned. But again, my appreciation to Paladin for his fine contributions and for the contributions of the others to the thread. I learned a lot.

Ardbeg98

PS: My posting name pays homage to one of the finest single malt whiskies in Scotland. Ardbeg packs plenty of punch--with a good measure of peat and smoke. The "98" in my user name was the year I first visited the quaint Ardbeg distillery located on the Hebredian island of Islay. A worthy dram, that Ardbeg. Slainte.

[MK]

Welcome to The Fedora Lounge. It looks like you are going to fit in quite well.

Enjoy!

[Canadave]

Originally posted by Ardbeg98 ...
If you happen to log on to some of the wet shaving forums on the web....
Here the Mach 3 shines, taking off any residual beard left from the DE work!

Welcome! A question and a comment regarding the points above.

-Where are these forums?
-After 3 passes with the DE, I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that there is "residual beard"! Can one get away without finishing by using the Mach 3?

David

[Blueberry]

I went into a mall in NYC and found the Art of Shaving store. I went in and had a smirk on my face as I started seeing the prices of brushes and the shaving cream. I started asking questions very politely but persisted for good answers. Then I went on the internet and found Charles Roberts web site. http://www.enchanteonline.com/pages/men/artofshave.htm. I studied each paragraph and highlighted the parts that stuck out to me. Then I re-read the highlighted parts over and over again, until it sunk in.

One of the things I learned it you need to put a water-cream base on your face before shaving. This can only be done effectively with a shaving brush and good cream. The water has to be hot to have the cream work properly. Also the foam shaving creams in the stores are not worth my money to ever use again. Every time I used them, the cream would not be wet even when applying water to it and trying to get a mixture in my hand. Plus it was too thick even when I used only a little. Of course having alcohol in any shaving product is not good. I understand that they wanted to use an antiseptic on your skin since when you have cuts; you want to clean the area. However it burns when you put it on and it dries out your skin.

I tried the Art of Shaving pre oil. First by wetting my face and then applying the oil. However it did not work very well. I was then told at the store that water and oil don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t mix so don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t use the water. The oil will soften your beard. Well I tried that it and hurt like hell. I went back to the store and complained, and they said well it works for some and not others. If oil and water don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t mix, how does the pre oil work. You are putting mixture of shaving cream and water on your face. Now you are putting that on top of an oil mixture that is preventing the protected layer to attach to your skin. The water-cream base is not effectively touching your face. Therefore no good barrier has been created. Then it was mentioned to me by someone that you don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want to have the oil touch the bristles if you are using a brush. That will clog it up and not allow it to take in and release water from the brush. Makes sense to me. Has anyone had success with any pre oil?

So after having more education on shaving I choose the Art of Shaving Best badger which was $100. It felt softer than the $50 one and it appeared to have more bristles on it. I also choose to try out their Sandlewood shaving cream.

Well I got home and tried the brush, (my first brush ever mind you). I also bought a plastic stand as the other one?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s were over $100 which I though was too much to spend for something that will hide in my medicine cabinet. I then put hot water on my face over 15 times. I soaked the brush in very hot water and then applied a small amount of cream on the brush and worked the two together until I had a good lather in my left hand. I then applied it to my face. The brush did not feel that soft and I did not get a luxury feeling that Charles had talked about in his articles. I also felt the brush was separating too much to the outside as well. I shaved down, and then added a little fire water to the brush and applied the cream again. Then I shaved up with the Mach 3 again. Let me mention the Mach 3 turbo has blades that don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t irritate my skin as much as the regular Mach 3.
I had to admit it was one of the best shaves I have ever had. Of course I used to use a foam cream, never mixed it with water, nor ever used a brush.
I returned the brush to the store and replaced it with the Silver tip brush they had for $180. I noticed a big improvement with this brush. Not only was it softer, but it was denser. I was told the brush is hand made. I also noticed that it has a gutter on the brush that Charles mentioned in his articles about the better brushes. It took the excess cream and put it on the outside part of the brush. Very nice. I had a little more feeling of luxury when using this brush. It may not be a Simpson, but I found it very acceptable in taking in water and releasing it into the cream.

The shaving cream they sell I found has the exact same ingredients as Geo Trumper?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s cream with the exception of a fragrance. So I feel pretty confident that the shaving cream the Art of Shaving sells is top of the line.

I then used the Art of Shaving after shave balm. It has red algae which cleans any cuts and has vitamin C and E in it. Well this stuff is great. I love it. Not only does it not dry out your skin like most other products in the store, it has no alcohol and it hydrated my skin making it feel great afterwards. I highly recommend this product.

So for me, the Art of Shaving shaving cream, silver tip brush and after balm is quite good. I would stay away from their cheaper brushes and pre shave oil.

Now I am working on my technique in shaving. This includes taking slower shorter strokes, and applying hot water after every stroke. I used to only shave down, but then by 3 o?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢clock I had a 5 o?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢clock shadow already and I needed to shave a night again. Now with shaving down and then up, I only use the razor on my chin area at night if I want to snuggle with my wife.

I am now a person who uses the wet shave method and love it. If my finances get better, I am thinking about getting a Simpson brush in the future and learning Roberts method.

[Chamorro]

(NOTE): The last post was the start of a new thread on this subject. I saw no need for that, so I merged the two. Great first post, Blueberry!

[Blueberry]

" If you are not using the Robert's method or similar approach, then there are many other fine (and more economically sensible) brushes on the market that should satisfy your needs."

Sounds reasonable to me. At this point I am very happy with my silver tip badger from the Art of Shaving. Using the brush 4 x's in a shave. Wow. I use it only twice. Is the 4 x due to going at a 45 degree angle two times, or what? Why the need to cut the beard so many times? I would think going down, and then up. What else is there?

"Finally, why a double edge (DE) safety razor? What about my tried-and-true Mach 3? Is this some kind of affectation or is the use of a DE necessary? I asked this of Charles and he gave me a very sensible answer. The Roberts Method, he said, uses large volumes of water and lots of rich, well-developed lather. A DE razor is well-suited for this kind of shaving--much more so than the Mach 3. He went on to explain that the Gillette Mach 3 System is really geared to a different kind of shaving. The blades are shallow, so you constantly have to keep rinsing the razor when you have a lot of lather. Second, as Gillette advertises. the whole approach to cutting is different with a Mach 3. There are three blades in a row. In shaving, the first blade holds the whiskers in place and the other two blades cut. (Are there any advantages to the Mach 3 over the DE? I think so: It's much easier to cut yourself with a DE if you are inexperienced.)

It seems that the Roberts method is the Mercedes approach. However some may not prefer to take the time to do this every day, especially if you are running to take a train, or drive into traffic to go to work.

I am interested at this time in knowing what is a very effective way of shaving with a good brush and good cream. To me, putting a good barrier on your face, shaving down, then reapply the cream, and shave up gives you a close shave. DONE! In being new at this whole wet shaving thing, I am wondering what am I missing here?

[Blueberry]

I talked to the Art of Shaving in regards to the pre oil. They told me they I could wet my face and then add the pre shave oil. It is suppose to soften the beard. There is also some type of pepper which is suppose to make your face warm. Due to the large molecules I was told that it would not cause a problem with the water-cream barrier. Also since there is glycerin in the shaving cream, this prevents the oil from clogging up the brush. However I am still very am un easy about the oil in pre shave. Anyone have a comment on this? Common sense tells me it is a no no if you use a brush.

[Ardbeg98]

Originally posted by Canadave
Welcome! A question and a comment regarding the points above.

-Where are these forums?
-After 3 passes with the DE, I'm surprised and disappointed to hear that there is "residual beard"! Can one get away without finishing by using the Mach 3?

David

Sorry for the non-response, Dave, I've been out of town and off the internet There are the two MSN forums that I know about:
http://groups.msn.com/WetShavers/mensgrooming.msnw

http://groups.msn.com/WetShavers/general.msnw

They cover a lot of the same territory.

About your question which is well-taken: As I get more experience with the Roberts Method, I'll be able to provide a better answer, but basically, what you are looking for is not a lot of beard, just little patches you may have missed. Paladin discussed the "touch and cut" and the blade buffing techniques in his earlier posts. His description is better than I can do at this point.

Regards.

Michael
"Ardbeg98"

[Blueberry]

Has anyone had any positive reponse in using a pre shave oil?

[Paladin]

Ardbeg98 and Blueberry....Very interesting posts. Sorry for not replying sooner, we bought a new home and were delayed in getting internet connection for ten days. Made me realize how addictive this internet thing is.....

Anyhow, belatedly welcome to Austin, Ardbeg98--I'm glad you made it to Charles' shop and were able to experience the instruction. Next time you're in town, email me and we'll tip a few glasses of my Macallan. And light up a Macanudo 93. I graduated from American University and still have many friends in the DC area--and great place. Charles is a unigue gent, isn't he? What an experience. I'm lucky to live here locally and be able to pop by for supplies and chat. "Chat" being the operative word. We've waxed poetic about everything from politics to religion to movies to authors to travel, among many other things. Be prepared with time to spare when visiting Charles. It's always an interesting experience.

I appreciate your kind words on my initial description of the Roberts technique. Having worked with it for many months now, I've discovered short-cuts (no pun intended) due to time on occasion, and embellishments. I find that my hands and fingers are much more fluid with it now. Similar to playing your face like a fine piano keyboard.

As for Art of Shaving in NYC, Blueberry, I started there as well. Went through their products and used them for a whle. It was a great way to break free of the commercial "gel-shave" technique. As for pre-shave oil, I used that up 'til Roberts, and use it occasionally still, until I'm done with my bottle of oil (I hate wasting things). You really don't need it, though. I find that if your products, tools and techniques are effective, pre-shave oil is unnecessary. I usually just prepare my face with hot water and launch. Moving into our new home, I have a new appreciation for soft water, by the way. We haven't had our water softening system installed yet, and shaving with hard water is like shaving with sand. Soft water makes an incredible difference in the success of your shave. And the health of your skin.

Ardbeg98, I'm jealous of your trip to Scotland. I've been to Ireland (kissed the Blarney Stone, etc) and England, but not to the Auld Sod yet. I've promised my wife a 20th-anniversary stay in a Scottish castle, renewing our vows on the moors with the pipes playing, and she's promised me time to tour a distillery or two. Until next year, "Monarch of the Glenn" is the closest we'll come.

Welcome to the lounge here, I look forward to our chats.

[Blueberry]

How is the Merkur shaver with their platinum blades compared to the M3. I also noticed there are several Merkur to choose from. Anyone of of them better than the other. One has a knob on the botton to reove the blades, another has a slant which is suppose to contour to your face better.

[Ardbeg98]

Originally posted by Blueberry
How is the Merkur shaver with their platinum blades compared to the M3. I also noticed there are several Merkur to choose from. Anyone of of them better than the other. One has a knob on the botton to reove the blades, another has a slant which is suppose to contour to your face better.

Hi Blueberry,

It's tough to know exactly which Merkur product you are comparing with the Mach 3. And, in fact, the Mach 3 itself comes in several "flavors." The Mach 3 has evolved from its introduction in the mid-90s from the regular 3-blade, to the Turbo (with lubricant strips), and now to the Power blades (with yet more bells and whistles). All three types are still available. The prices of the Turbo and the Power are higher than the regular.

As far as I know, Merkur doesn't make a 3 blade system, but it does make handles that will work with Gillette's Mach 3 blades. These are nicely balanced and are better looking than the stock Mach 3 handles. There are of course many other manufacturers of Mach 3 handles. For example, check out the many available from Progress Vulfix, which you can get from www.classicshaving.com or from other manufactures at, for example, www.emsplace.com or www.enchanteonline.com.

Merkur does make a double blade cartridge system, which I've not tried so can't comment on. Again, you can buy these online at www.classicshaving.com. These would be comparable to Gillette's Sensor or other two bladed cartridge systems on the market.

Merkur has a full range of double edge safety razors and manufactures a nice platinum coated razor blade. These are widely available over the internet. I'm currently using these blades in a non-adjustable base (Merkur 178). This is a short handled chrome razor that is beatifully constructed, and easy to use. You twist a knob at the bottom and off comes the top so you can replace the blades. It sells in the $30 to $35 range.
Merkur also sells many adjustable models for a bit more money, but until I master the basics of the Roberts method shaving, I'm perfectly happy with the non-adjustable Merkur. Still, Charles at Enchante would be delighted to sell you a Merkur adjustable razor (in the $60 range, I believe).

About the double edge blades themselves, Merkur makes a very good blade, as far as I can tell. There are several others available which you might also want to try. All are advanced, coated blades. The most available in the U.S. are those made by the American Safety Razor Company. They are sold under the Personna brand, but this company's products are sold under a large number of other brand names as well (e.g., CVS). I can't say whether Gillette is making double edge blades still. If so, I haven't found them recently. Also, be advised that it Schick and Wilkinson are now both owned by Pfizer Warner-Lambert. I've read that Wilkinson is no longer making DE blades, but Schick may well be. (I've gotten Wilkinson DE blades on EBay recently and I like them alot.) Finally, I'm eager to try the DE blades by a Japanese company called Feather. These are sold in the U.S. by www.classicshaving.com and I'm just about to put in an order for them. Japanese tool steel can be wonderful stuff, so I'm looking forward to testing out these blades. Will let you know.

By the way, a great resource to link to various shaving sites can be found at http://www.geocities.com/safetyrazors/links.htm

Michael
"Ardbeg98"

[Ardbeg98]

Thanks to Paladin for the welcome to this thread. I agree very much with his assessment of Charles Roberts at Enchante. I'd be hard pressed to name another business owner more connected to his customers. And, by the way, if you buy just one product for wet shaving from him, try his shave cube (about $10). This shaving soap is just incredible. It can be used with your brush by itself or enriched by a small amount of shave cream of your choice. The pleasing "soapy" scent reminds me of the old fashioned shaving soaps my father used years ago. Plus, the cube is so big that it will last for months.

About Paladin's "hard water" comment, I can relate to that. Our local Montgomery County Potomac River water is pretty hard, but I'm unwilling to invest in a softening system just for my shaving. Hard water is also a culprit for other uses as well. For example, making coffee with a good tasting softened (or purified) water makes all the difference. (Hard water also places havoc with the innards of my Italian espresso machine.) Also, a good quality soft water added in small quantity to Paladin's dram of The Macallan Whisky will enhance the experience [although it is said that many Scots think that Whisky is best with a small amount of Edinborough tap water]. Paladin, do save some Macallan for me when I am next in Austin. I'd be honored. Also, for those of you who, like Paladin, are planning a trip to Scotland, consult the guidebook that many Scots swear by called Scotland the Best, by Peter Irvine. Amazon.com carries it; be sure to get the latest edition.]

Sorry to get off the topic of this thread.
I'll try to stay more focused next time.

Michael
"Ardbeg98"

[Blueberry]

thank you for your reply. I currently am using the Mach 3 Turbo which blades are easier on my face. I am aware that the Merkur does not have 3 blades, but have been told by some that they stay sharper longer (Mach 3 turbo gets 3 days of shaving for me) and that they you get a very close shave with them. The razor you mentioned that has the knob on the bottom of the Merkur is one that I am considering getting. Not to mention the nice weight. Decisions, decsiions...

[Paladin]

I posted a link to the Merkur DE that both Charles recommends and I use (bought from him originally). The knob at the end allows you to adjust the blade for more blade play as your face can handle it. I haven't yet, and still use it at the first setting. Ardbeg98--I'd be interested in hearing how those Japanese Feathers perform. I agree on the cube--if you enjoy it now, imagine how it would perform with soft water in your home! It really is like night and day. The lather whips up in seconds, almost too much for one sitting.

The Mach 3 is a great trimming and buffing razor. I previously used it exclusively, before the Roberts technique. But that with the cutting balm (after the DE work), is an ideal finishing run on your face. I've edited my routine to three runs with the DE, then one for the M3. Given time constraints and an improvement in my technique, I don't perform a second straight-angle run.

Your decision on a DE and handle for your M3 is highly personal. It's got to feel right, and perform to the level you desire. You may go through a few, as I have, until you settle in comfortably with your tools. But if you don't mind the expense, the journey--as I mentioned at the top of this thread--is an enjoyable one. Isn't it amazing how there are just a few square inches of territory to our faces, but so much to learn?

[Paladin]

Sorry I've been gone for a while. Just very busy with moving into a new home and business. Thought I'd share with you my discovery of Feather razor blades. Just was down at Charles' shop and he recommended these Japanese-made safety blades to replace my Merkurs. But he warned they are the sharpest he's ever had and needed to use them on his tightest razor adjustment. Well, always open to trying something new with regard to my shave, I bought a pack ($7.95) and tried one this morning. He was right--the sharpest of sharp--and they were terrific! As close as I shave now with my "method shave" and tools, these blades add even more to the shave. I'd highly recommend them. Go to the Enchante web site to order them, or do a Google search and try a pack.

Anything to provide the next best "edge" to my shave (pun intended). Hope you all are doing well, look forward to participating more. And....summertime is approaching and I still don't have the Panama hat I wanted to have made. Getting close to making a choice to have one made in time for "the season". :cool2:

[Ardbeg98]

Paladin-I've also been out of touch for a long time, but am glad to see your report on the Feather DE blades. Just to let you know, I've used the Feathers as well and confirm that they are VERY sharp and need to be used with care. A week ago I clearly wasn't paying enough attention and came close to butchering myself. (I had to retire from my DE for an entire week, seeking safe haven with my trusty Mach III.) In addition to www.enchanteonline.com, you can also get these blades from www.classicshaving.com, another reliable online source for shaving stuff. In addition to Feather DE blades, I've also tried Schick and Wilkinson DE coated blades and of course Merkur blades. As far as I can tell, neither Schick nor Wilkinson DE blades are manufactured any more. Also, as it turns out, one corporation, Warner Lambert, now owns both and their product lines are largely overlapped. Nonetheless, you can readily get both brands of DE blades on eBay. I did and have given both several tries. Although the blades all arrived in their unopened packages, it's hard to know the effects of being "on the shelf" for awhile. So a fair comparison may not be possible. After several tries at each kind of blade, it strikes me that the Feathers are the sharpest (but dangerous in absent-minded hands like mine); Merkur blades were also fine. I also liked the Schick blades (which were made in Germany.) Perhaps because their age, the blades were somewhat variable. Some were good--others seemed not to be too sharp. The Wilkinson DE blades I used didn't produce as smooth a shave as I would have liked, so I have subsequently given up on them. I do have plenty left. Finally, I was lucky enough to get a single, unopened package of five blades of the venerable Gillette coated blade ("The Spoiler") on eBay. The package could have been as much as 20-30 years old. Who knows? I've carefully used two of the blades and liked them a lot. Smooth comfortable shaves--although maybe sentimental thinking for a time when DE blades ruled the roost.

By the way, for those of you wanting to pursue method shaving, particularly the Roberts Method (RMWS) in more detail, go to the new web site estabished by an energetic guy named Adam Mendelsohn called www.methodshaving.com. It has a small membership now, and the members tend to be devotees of the RMWS (as am I). If that appeals, then I'm sure you're welcome to visit or join.

Mike K.
"Ardbeg98"

[Paladin]

Thanks for the info on other sources for the Feathers. I'll take your warning to heart and stay aware while using. Charles told me about the new web site and I'm about to check it out over lunch. I wonder if you've found an eBay source for Feathers? I'm sold on them at this point, and will probably make the permanent switch from Merkurs to Feathers.

Glad we have a place to get back to chat again about the little things in life that matter to us. :cheers1:

[Blueberry]

I bought the Merkur razor from Charles. It took me a while to learn not to press against my skin like I did with the Mach 3. But now I get even better and closer shaves with the Merkur. I have been using the Merkur blades now for a while and love them. I turn the knob once for my first pass and then a little more on the second .

[Canadave]

Blueberry, do you use "the method" or just shave like you used to with the Mach 3?

Thanks,

David

[BellyTank]

How did I miss this thread?
One of my pet peeves is utterly useless and crazy cosmetic products-
a lot of the cosmetic and skin care products are purely consumer brainwashing-
products made from the cheapest chemicals used for all other cosmetics packaged into a special package for a specific purpose- just for you.

RE: shaving-
it's as mysterious expensive and challenging as you want to make it.
A consumer survey was done her in Denmark to find the best razor(not cut-throats, just your modern variety) turned out the best shave was from the cheapest one available from the cheapest supermarket in Europe. I tried them and was amazed, it was true and I'd been using a twin blade lube-strip one for years. It turns out that it was all in the grind of the blades and the angle they were set into the head.
But everyone's shaving experience is different depending on how fast growing, how much, how thick your beard is and the condition of your skin.
The best shave I have is after a week and I'm pretty hairy by then.
I would recommend shaving only as often as you absolutely need to-
eber noticed how old mens' skin looks a bit thin and transparent? it's not just the ageing process...

As for shave-soap or foam- I've had the best luck using cheap shaving soap like Palmolive or any of the similar ones. This stuff keeps the moisture in during your shave, unlike foam that just foams out and gels that just block up the razor.
It seems recently, that the TV trendies have been saying only shave downward- what a crock- I need to shave in both directions and east and west to get all of mine off. My beard grows in a circle on my neck so it's laying in all directions.

As for aftershave- I've been making my own for the past 10 yrs, I was even selling it for a time. A good after-shave product, as a skin toner is Rosewater, it's a great skin toner and many women use it. If you want something more astringent or more drying, like if you have an oily skin, distilled witchazel is the answer.

Beware- many cosmetics and "skincare" products contain mineral oils, like Johnsons baby oil- it's just that- mineral oil- sewing machine oil- not to be put anywhere near the skin. And vaseline- another one to avoid- these things give the illusion of lubricating and moisturising your skin but they actually just slime it up then draw moisture out of your skin as they dry out and in the long run are harmful. People who use vaseline on their hands tend to use it every day- because after using it for a while- you need to use something. Same with lip balm- dries your lips out.- lip balm addiction ever noticed that?
The best things for your skin are made from un-modified vegetable based oils, pure essential oils and plant extractions.
Don't be fooled by pretty packaging and jargon- it's just marketing malarkey!
Man. I could go on and on- oops I already did.
BT

[Michaelson]

And they've laughed at my suggestion of using Pecards for everything! ;) Sorry, inside 'Indygear' joke. Regards. Michaelson

[BellyTank]

I think pecards might be a little more animal than vegetable.
But try it maybe you'll like it.
BT.

[Michaelson]

It's a great moustache wax. (grins) ;) Regards. Michaelson

[jamespowers]

It's a great moustache wax. (grins) ;) Regards. Michaelson

And is an even better hair oil. :p

Regards to all,


J

[Michaelson]

Stay away from the 'antique' dressing, though. Ages you WAY to fast. Just ask CoffeeDude. :cool: Regards. Michaelson

[jamespowers]

Stay away from the 'antique' dressing, though. Ages you WAY to fast. Just ask CoffeeDude. :cool: Regards. Michaelson

So if you use it as a hair oil, it will turn your hair gray? :p ;)