Unusual question regarding vintage Jack Daniels.

[doghouse]

I wasn't sure where to put this..

A relative of mine found a 1/10th of a pint Jack Daniels 90 proof whiskey bottle. It's unopened and still has the original tax seal. Originally I was going to ask for help dating it, but I came across a collectors site. Apparently it was bottled in 1973. It's not worth much, as there are many mini bottles from those years floating around.

So, my husband's crazy question is.. can you actually DRINK whiskey that old or would it make you seriously ill?

I guess he can't help but be curious, haha.

Thanks :)

[BegintheBeguine]

Drink up. :) I have some booze from the 60s that I drink and haven't gotten sick so far.

[Mr. Lucky]

Draink up. :) I have some booze from the 60s that I drink and haven't gotten sick so far.
Well, then, you're just not drinking ENOUGH of it!

[doghouse]

Drink up. :) I have some booze from the 60s that I drink and haven't gotten sick so far.


Thanks!

[Mike in Seattle]

One of the big things with Scotch & Bourbown (which are both different types of whiskey) is they get better with age. Some brands aren't sold until they're at least 20 years old.

[scotrace]

Others may correct me but I'm certain that hard liquor (whiskey) does not age at all in the bottle, as does wine. The quality and characteristics of the liquid are set and finished before it is bottled.

100 year old bottle of whiskey, cognac, vodka, etc, if it has not seen extremes of temperature or been exposed to air, should be fine to drink.

The same does not hold true of wine. The old theoretical custom of putting down a case of wine on the birth of a child, to be drunk at the child's wedding, is risky unless you have the perfect storage situation at hand for all 20+ years. Even then, some of the bottles would probably "turn."

I have a bottle of "blush" wine from Monticello that was bottled in 1984 and has not been well stored. It looks like vinegar... with lots of floaties.

[scotrace]

One of the big things with Scotch & Bourbown (which are both different types of whiskey) is they get better with age. Some brands aren't sold until they're at least 20 years old.

Yes but they do their aging in the cask. Once bottled, they're done.

[BellyTank]

...you're right.
People who keep 16yr old Single Malt in the cabinet are crazy-
Straight into the decanter it goes!

Although, I once found an antique bottle of Brandy in my basement.
I couldn't read the text on the label but there was a picture of a Hospital-
I think it was a Hospital.

Maybe it was Grown-ups' medicine.

B
T

[Baron Kurtz]

The same does not hold true of wine. The old theoretical custom of putting down a case of wine on the birth of a child, to be drunk at the child's wedding, is risky unless you have the perfect storage situation at hand for all 20+ years. Even then, some of the bottles would probably "turn."


Well, that is why one has a wine cellar under the mansion.

Yeah, whiskey's for drinkin'. No ageing in bottles (unless it's leaching some minerals out of the glass). All in the casks.

But, hmmm, i guess if you have a bad seal the microorganisms can get into liquor as it does wine. Anyone had a corked whiskey?

bk

[Mike in Seattle]

Good to know...now I guess I get to rain on the parade of some friends who bought 10 case of Scotch five years ago and stored them away so they'd have "smooth, beautifully aged 20 year old Scotch at a fraction of the price" in a few years. Can't wait till the next time they try rubbing that in our faces. And it's often. :D

[scotrace]

There is one place that it is inadvisable to have the fermentation process restarted - in your stomach. :)

Beware too many tipples made with sweet mixers.

A woman in town (not "of the town"...) nearby bought a large Victorian and there was a barrel of port in the cellar. There was no way to know how old it was but it was very, very fine stuff for sure.

I wonder too, BK, if the seal on a whiskey bottle were corrupted if the contents would be also?

BT - How was the stuff anyway??

[scotrace]

Ha! I'd let 'em have it good Mike!. If you buy a bottle of 5-year-old scotch today, and put it down for twenty years, it would still be 5-year-old scotch.

[Baron Kurtz]

The question would be if the bugs could stand the high alc/low nutrient content. Bottle of whiskey with a couple billion dead bacteria forming a scum on the surface. Euuuchhh

bk

[scotrace]

The question would be if the bugs could stand the high alc/low nutrient content. Bottle of whiskey with a couple billion dead bacteria forming a scum on the surface. Euuuchhh

bk


That's the Top Shelf at frat houses...

[Absinthe_1900]

This is over 60 years old and most definitely drinkable.

If properly stored 100+ year old Absinthe is an incredible experience, I've
had vintage Pernod fils absinthe that was exquisite.

Absinthe can age quite well in a bottle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/thegreenimp/herbsaint3copy.jpg

[Mike K.]

During the prohibition days, folks supposedly made liquor runs across frozen stretches of the Great Lakes. For all you scuba divers out there, I was informed of a wreck that lies in about 50ft of water. It's a truck that was full of aged scotch when it went through the ice. Now that aged scotch is even more aged and perfectly preserved in the chilled depths. For those who know where the dive site is located, there are some fine drinks to be had!

Aged Jack Daniels? Bottoms up!
:cheers1:

[doghouse]

Wish I lived close enough to that dive site to investigate. I've only had good scotch a few times.

[Fletch]

I've had 30+ year old brandy and port and survived just fine. Maybe better!

[Kt Templar]

There is a cognac on the market "L'Espirit de Courvoisier" that is made up of various vintages starting at the youngest being 70 years old going right back to some from the Napoleonic era. You don't have to worry about the few decades old spirts. I currently retails for $7000 a bottle.

Of course give it a smell, give it a taste, you'll usually know if it is off.

As for smoothness in the bottle, I can only vouch for some I have tried... I sampled some regular Remy Martin VSOP that we'd had for 20+ years it was smoother than any XO I have had. After that when I come back from travelling I always buy something special put it at the back of the cupboard and move the previous one forward. That way it get's a few years to "settle" :).

[jamespowers]

Scott is a fine gentleman and an excellent judge of good whiskey and scotch. There is no such thing as aging the stuff in the bottle. It is distilled and not fermented in the wine sense. Take it out of the barrel and it goes nowhere. It also makes me laugh when people have whiskey or scotch that is over 10-12 years old and think they have something great.

Let me help the fools. Scotch and whisky (whiskey) can actually deteriorate beyond twelve years. I have tasted much of it that was twenty years old and well past its prime. That same barrel would have been great five or ten years before. I forget the brand names but I noticed this when taste testing scotch from scotland. :D Downing a Speyside 12 YO now. :cheers1:

Regards,

J

[doghouse]

Scott is a fine gentleman and an excellent judge of good whiskey and scotch. There is no such thing as aging the stuff in the bottle. It is distilled and not fermented in the wine sense. Take it out of the barrel and it goes nowhere. It also makes me laugh when people have whiskey or scotch that is over 10-12 years old and think they have something great.

Let me help you fools. Scotch and whisky (whiskey) can actually deteriorate beyond twelve years. I have tasted much of it that was twenty years old and well past its prime. That same barrel would have been great five or ten years before. I forget the brand names but I noticed this when taste testing scotch from scotland. :D Downing a Speyside 12 YO now. :cheers1:

Regards,

J

Thank you. That makes sense when you think about the different processes it takes to make scotch or whiskey vs. wine.

I'm fairly new to Scotch. The first I had was a cheap brand I bought in Hot Springs for my anniversiary. It tasted like an ashtray. Seriously! lol
I wouldn't touch the stuff for years. Then, a friend bought me a bottle of Glenn Fiddich (sp?) I've had a few bottles of that and I'm hooked!

Thanks to this discussion I am heading to the liquor store tommorow. (I live in the bible belt, so no alcohol on Sundays) Could anyone be a sweetheart and recommend a scotch or two that a newbie might like? I'm anxious to try something new, but a little intimidated by the variety.

(edit: After I posted this my husband reminded me we have also had Glenlivet(sp?)

[carebear]

Don't limit yourself just to "scotch", try some bourbons and the Irish whiskeys.

It can get expensive buying a bottle of something you might not like (since I'm out of driving distance, I'll drink anything), so order by the glass when you are out and about. Or cultivate knowledgeable (but not Scotch snob) friends.

[doghouse]

Don't limit yourself just to "scotch", try some bourbons and the Irish whiskeys.

It can get expensive buying a bottle of something you might not like (since I'm out of driving distance, I'll drink anything), so order by the glass when you are out and about. Or cultivate knowledgeable (but not Scotch snob) friends.

Heh. I'm certainly NOT limiting myself to just Scotch. We drink bourbon several times a week. (although admittedly its usually not the expensive stuff)
Irish whiskey shows up in my decanter at least twice a month.

Ordering by the glass would be great, but around "these parts" people only drink cheap whiskey and Bud Light. There isn't exactly a great variety of scotch at the local bars. Needless to say, I don't know anyone around here that drinks Scotch. [huh]

[carebear]

Ohhhh ARKANSAS Arkansas... :eusa_doh:

Sorry for the bourbon mention then. :D

I like Laphroig but some people who like the Glens don't.

[doghouse]

Ohhhh ARKANSAS Arkansas... :eusa_doh:

Sorry for the bourbon mention then. :D

I like Laphroig but some people who like the Glens don't.



haha. I'm from Texas dangit!

Is Laphroig real peaty?

[BellyTank]

BT - How was the stuff anyway??

It was OK- we drank it with Ginger Ale anyway...

B
T

[Kt Templar]

Scott is a fine gentleman and an excellent judge of good whiskey and scotch. There is no such thing as aging the stuff in the bottle. It is distilled and not fermented in the wine sense. Take it out of the barrel and it goes nowhere. It also makes me laugh when people have whiskey or scotch that is over 10-12 years old and think they have something great.

Let me help you fools. Scotch and whisky (whiskey) can actually deteriorate beyond twelve years. I have tasted much of it that was twenty years old and well past its prime. That same barrel would have been great five or ten years before. I forget the brand names but I noticed this when taste testing scotch from scotland. :D Downing a Speyside 12 YO now. :cheers1:

Regards,

J

Ok, I'll take onboard the notion that spirits do not mature in the bottle. This is re-iterated on the Courvoisier web site and they also suggest that the opened spirit should be consumed within 12 months (but of course they would!). :)

The one I had was given to my dad when he toured the Remy Martin distillery as a guest of the family and they may have given him something special.

But, are you saying that all the 18, 24, 40 YO etc etc labeled whiskys sold by distillers out there are just a marketing gimmick and the spirit is past it?

[farnham54]

Here's a thought on trying something new:

Be adventurous. Buy something exciting and random. If you don't like it, mix it with Dr. Pepper--it makes everything better.

Honestly--A friend bought a bottle of some TERRIBLE whisky (the kind you usually find empty in ditches or encased in a brown bag). Couldn't stomach the stuff to save our lives. 2 liters of Dr. Pepper later and the night gets a bit hazy...but I do remember it tasting good in that mix!


I know Some folks will be appalled at this suggestion. I say drink what you LIKE, and damn the pedigree.

Cheers
Craig

[scotrace]

But, are you saying that all the 18, 24, 40 YO etc etc labeled whiskys sold by distillers out there are just a marketing gimmick and the spirit is past it?


Not at all. But that maturation period took place before bottling. Once it is bottled, the age is locked. A 20 year old spirit is going to be (generally speaking) better than a 5 year old spirit, and will be priced accordingly. The distiller also has a heavy investment in warehousing those barrels over the decades.

[carebear]

But, are you saying that all the 18, 24, 40 YO etc etc labeled whiskys sold by distillers out there are just a marketing gimmick and the spirit is past it?


Not at all. But that maturation period took place before bottling. Once it is bottled, the age is locked. A 20 year old spirit is going to be (generally speaking) better than a 5 year old spirit, and will be priced accordingly. The distiller also has a heavy investment in warehousing those barrels over the decades.

I think he was questioning Powers' edict.


Let me help you fools. Scotch and whisky (whiskey) can actually deteriorate beyond twelve years. I have tasted much of it that was twenty years old and well past its prime. That same barrel would have been great five or ten years before.

[scotrace]

Ah. My mistake.

I never question JamesPowers. He knows where all the bodies are buried. :p

[griffer]

haha. I'm from Texas dangit!

Is Laphroig real peaty?


Laphroaig was my first and still one of my favorite scotches.

Very peaty, and not very smooth, i think you acquire a taste for it.

I tell people it's like drinking a Texas barbecue- and I'm not talking grill, I'm talking smoke pit. From one Texan to another, you know what I'm talking about.

I love it though. I have tasted the flight, and I still like the younger stuff. It's more brash, kicks me more, and it takes me back to my first sip.

Don't let this throw you though, it is a complex set of flavors, balanced. It is not not the kick of cheap rot gut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laphroaig

[carebear]

What griffer said. :D

It does have a heavy smokey taste. As for the "kick"...

Where there's smoke, there's often fire. lol

[OldSkoolFrat]

Jack Daniels would never last 30 years in my house.:D

[jamespowers]

But, are you saying that all the 18, 24, 40 YO etc etc labeled whiskys sold by distillers out there are just a marketing gimmick and the spirit is past it?

It is not always the case but yes. I have had some horrible whisky from makers that was 40 YO while their 12 year old was superior. Age in whisky is tricky. It doesn't necessarily impart smoothness or clarify the flavor. In most of the cases I have experienced, it gives it time to oxidize and make the flavor more sharp and biting to the tongue.
If other have comments and specific brand examples otherwise then please cite them. I am willing to try other brands of Scotch or Irish Whisky.

Just about any Scotch would be recommended but from your previous experience with Scotch, I would recommend either a Highland Malt or a Speyside. Last evening a few friends and I tried The Speyside. It got one good and looped. lol I like Talisker and The Macallan.

Regards,

J

[doghouse]

Thanks so much everyone. I look forward to trying all these out. :)

[jamespowers]

I think he was questioning Powers' edict.

Holy Crimony! I meant to write "the fools" not "you fools." :eusa_doh: Sorry for the mistake. That does sound ridiculous. I was responding to the previous mention of the person who thought keeping a bottle around for decades made it better and lauded it over the guests.

Regards,

J

[jamespowers]

Holy Crimony! I meant to write "the fools" not "you fools." :eusa_doh: Sorry for the mistake. That does sound ridiculous. I was responding to the previous mention of the person who thought keeping a bottle around for decades made it better and lauded it over the guests.

Regards,

J

Thinking about it and rereading it further, I think I just left out one letter---r. So it should be "your fools." :eusa_doh: What a difference a letter makes. Sorry about that.
Yes, I am a whisky snob. It brings to mind the term rot gut. The cheap stuff will rot your guts. I won't even bring up how the term got adopted from body snatchers in the old days who used to use barrels of alcohol to hide and preserve the bodies for later use in college room disections. :eek:

Regards,

J

[carebear]

Thinking about it and rereading it further, I think I just left out one letter---r. So it should be "your fools." :eusa_doh: What a difference a letter makes. Sorry about that.
Yes, I am a whisky snob. It brings to mind the term rot gut. The cheap stuff will rot your guts. I won't even bring up how the term got adopted from body snatchers in the old days who used to use barrels of alcohol to hide and preserve the bodies for later use in college room disections. :eek:

Regards,

J

If the cadaver so used was 4 decades along, would that make the alcohol 40 year old whiskey? :p

[jamespowers]

If the cadaver so used was 4 decades along, would that make the alcohol 40 year old whiskey? :p

Even more wierd was that the body snatchers sold the whiskey to the students after they were done using it---thus rot gut. :eek:
It would still be only as old as it was in the barrel. The 40 year old addition makes it a blend and not a single malt though. :p :eek:

Regards,

J

[Roger]

Try something to fit your tastes. There's plenty of fine stuff and terrible stuff. What I find totally overrated and overpriced is Macallan. Why pay $45 for something that I use to strip chrome off of bumpers?:rage: Terrible liquor.

[jamespowers]

Try something to fit your tastes. There's plenty of fine stuff and terrible stuff. What I find totally overrated and overpriced is Macallan. Why pay $45 for something that I use to strip chrome off of bumpers?:rage: Terrible liquor.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[MissHuff]

All this liquor talk makes me wish I were back in Montreal with a bottle of Hennessey to keep me warm...

11 more months ;)

[Mojave Jack]

During the prohibition days, folks supposedly made liquor runs across frozen stretches of the Great Lakes. For all you scuba divers out there, I was informed of a wreck that lies in about 50ft of water. It's a truck that was full of aged scotch when it went through the ice. Now that aged scotch is even more aged and perfectly preserved in the chilled depths. For those who know where the dive site is located, there are some fine drinks to be had!

Aged Jack Daniels? Bottoms up!
:cheers1:
When they dredge the Detroit River they regularly bring up bottles of whiskey on other spirits from Canada. I remember reading in the Free Press one year that they brought up a concrete block--with footprints and the sole of a shoe in it!

My friend's family had a property near Port Huron, but it was pretty remote. My friend was walking through their woods and found a huge pit filled with thousands of whiskey bottles, all empty. He learned through some local folks that the pit was where the smugglers poured the whiskey into other containers to take into Detroit to the speakeasys.

[K.D. Lightner]

Thanks for all the tips, folks. I love a good whiskey, usually have Jack Daniels and sometimes Johnny Walker Black. I've tried Glenfiddich, too, or maybe it was Glenlivit. Heck, I even like Early Times, which is easy on the wallet.

Now, I have discovered a single barrel rye whiskey -- from an old Iowa bootlegger's recipe. It is called Templeton Rye from Templeton, Iowa, a small town that went "outlaw" during prohibition and made rye whiskey, which was so good that it became Al Capone's whiskey of choice.

There was an article recently in the Des Moines register showing how the bootleggers hid their Iowa whiskey from the government: in hollowed-up grave monuments in small-town graveyards. The front slab came off and the monument was hollow (no wonder they made those big monuments back then!)

They stopped making it once alcohol was legal again, but recently revived the operation. I bought some in a liguor store here and really like it. Plus, of course, I am intrigued by its history, which is part of the marketing -- everyone wants to try a whiskey from an old bootlegging operation.

Maybe Iowa is not so nerdy after all. Now, if I could just wear my fedoras without all the stares.

karol

[Lincsong]

How easy is it to get booze in Iowa? Wasn't it one of the last dry states?

[K.D. Lightner]

When I was a child, growing up in Iowa, it was a pretty dry state -- you could buy beer in bars (or "beer joints" as my folks called them) but not liquor or wine. And the beer was 3.2 alcohol content, pretty poor. People who wanted stronger beer went to Missouri and bought it. There were establishments that would set you up with a hard drink, but you had to supply the liquor -- and you were charged for it.

You were allowed so many bottles of wine or hard liquor per year, so had to go to a state liquor store (the only ones allowed) and sign forms to get bottles of booze, I used to go with my father when I was a kid. I believe you could only get so many bottles each time you went, and you were limited to so many bottles/year. but don't recall how many.

Ironically, it was a recovering alcoholic, Governor Harold Hughes, who got rid of the draconian alcohol laws. I was 22 years old (1964) when we could finally get liquor by the drink in Iowa in bars and restaurants. My friends and I would go to these places and try everything in the universe from dacqueries to zombies.

You still could not buy booze in grocery stores, had to go to liquor stores to buy the stuff. This was still true when I left Iowa to live in New York City.

Now, Iowa is discovering its glorious pre-prohibition past. There are now a number of wineries, plus Templeton, and for all I know, other establishments rising out of the ashes of prohibition. I did not know this, but Iowa was a leading producer of wine before prohibition, but the wineries all died out.

Iowa was not the last dry state, but I think we were close. I believe Kansas was still dry in the late 60's.

karol

[Harp]

During the prohibition days, folks supposedly made liquor runs across frozen stretches of the Great Lakes. For all you scuba divers out there, I was informed of a wreck that lies in about 50ft of water. It's a truck that was full of aged scotch when it went through the ice. Now that aged scotch is even more aged and perfectly preserved in the chilled depths. For those who know where the dive site is located, there are some fine drinks to be had!

Aged Jack Daniels? Bottoms up!
:cheers1:

Where abouts did that truck sink?:)

[K.D. Lightner]

I just found this interesting web site. I tried it answering both yes and no to enter the site.

http://www.templetonrye.com

karol

[Absinthe_1900]

A very nice rye that is like a pre-prohibition rye, is the six year old Sazerac Rye from Buffalo Trace / Sazerac, very nice tasting, and makes for a great Sazerac cocktail.

http://www.beerliquors.com/images/spirits/sazerac_rye_whisky.jpg

[K.D. Lightner]

Absinthe -- Thanks for the tip. I will look for it and try it now that I know I like rye whiskey.

karol

[scotrace]

And thanks for that Templton Rye link KDL! I wonder why only in one state?

[Michaelson]

I stopped by Jack Daniels last week and asked the master distiller your question. I KNOW what they tell us on the tours, but I asked him point blank. The answer is, if the whiskey has not been tainted by any foreign liquid entering the already opened bottle, it should be perfectly fine to drink. And no, neither whiskey, bourbon, or scotch will continue to age outside of it's wooden cask. That's what ages the whiskey...the moving in and out of the charred wood to the soak line. Once it's bottled, it's done. So, to the fellow with the scotch squirrelled down in his basement....it's going to taste exactly the same 20 years from now as it does today...that is, if it's been bottled. If it's still in it's original barrel, and you want it to continue to age, you best do some studying up on how to exercise the whiskey....as for a certain period of time it has to be in a warmer area to go in and out of the wood more often....but after a few years, moved to a cooler area to slow down that movement. It's not just a matter of putting the barrel up in a dark location and leaving it. It's all rotated to a specificed schedule.

Anyway, that's the scoop directly from the Jack Daniels master distiller to your question.

Regards! Michaelson

[K.D. Lightner]

Scotrace -- They just started up their business this past year, got a lot of publicity in the papers and on TV here in Iowa.

I imagine TR will have a wider distribution in the future -- they do ask for email from potential distributors and private buyers on the website.

karol

[jamespowers]

I stopped by Jack Daniels last week and asked the master distiller your question. I KNOW what they tell us on the tours, but I asked him point blank. The answer is, if the whiskey has not been tainted by any foreign liquid entering the already opened bottle, it should be perfectly fine to drink. And no, neither whiskey, bourbon, or scotch will continue to age outside of it's wooden cask. That's what ages the whiskey...the moving in and out of the charred wood to the soak line. Once it's bottled, it's done. So, to the fellow with the scotch squirrelled down in his basement....it's going to taste exactly the same 20 years from now as it does today...that is, if it's been bottled. If it's still in it's original barrel, and you want it to continue to age, you best do some studying up on how to exercise the whiskey....as for a certain period of time it has to be in a warmer area to go in and out of the wood more often....but after a few years, moved to a cooler area to slow down that movement. It's not just a matter of putting the barrel up in a dark location and leaving it. It's all rotated to a specificed schedule.

Anyway, that's the scoop directly from the Jack Daniels master distiller to your question.

Regards! Michaelson

The master distiller knows what he is talking about. Too bad he is working for Jack Daniels. :p

Regards,

J

[Phil]

During the prohibition days, folks supposedly made liquor runs across frozen stretches of the Great Lakes. For all you scuba divers out there, I was informed of a wreck that lies in about 50ft of water. It's a truck that was full of aged scotch when it went through the ice. Now that aged scotch is even more aged and perfectly preserved in the chilled depths. For those who know where the dive site is located, there are some fine drinks to be had!

Aged Jack Daniels? Bottoms up!
:cheers1:

Actually, I've been to the truck. I went diving with some relatives and they were talking about that truck. My uncle actually knew the location, or rather, he had it plotted on his GPS. Anyways, my uncle and I dove down to the truck. I'll save you all the time and money of diving lessons and renting a boat. It was cleaned out of booze. All that was left were some rotting, wood cases, opened bottles, and some broken ones. The truck itself looked pretty cool though. Even if there were any left, from what I've read here, the alcohol wouldn't have aged or since corking was the easier method at the time, some of the cork probably rotted away by now and you can get a nice bottle of lake water. Goes down just as hard, mor likely to get you sick, and a lot less fun.

[Ethan Bentley]

A very nice rye that is like a pre-prohibition rye, is the six year old Sazerac Rye from Buffalo Trace / Sazerac, very nice tasting, and makes for a great Sazerac cocktail.


I'd second that.

[Cigarband]

Try Dalwhinney, the smoothest one I've ever had.