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Panamabob
07-19-2007, 11:35 AM
Well, it happened. Simon Espinal called to say that his family can no longer weave hats for us. I'm assuming that there was some pressure from one of those heroes in Hawaii. Of course, I'll probably never know the truth. One more step toward monopoly for Hawaii. I hope he comes to see how he is killing the Montecristi hat industry. He who can pay the most money wins! Look for the prices to artificially inflate up again so that one man's ego can be stroked.

RedPop4
07-19-2007, 11:37 AM
:rage: :rage: :mad:
Gracias para nada, Hawaii.

johnnycanuck
07-19-2007, 11:39 AM
How long till the prices change?

Johnny

dzacca
07-19-2007, 11:41 AM
What a bad news... :rage:


Did you manage to find out my hats, at least? ;) :p

TaxMan1
07-19-2007, 11:45 AM
Sorry to hear that, Bob! And thanks for fighting for us!

duggap
07-19-2007, 05:58 PM
So Robert, what does this mean. Will you be able to supply Monticriste from other weavers or are you just out of luck. If so, how many Monticriste bodies do you have. I may need to grab one before they are all gone. We all hope you will still be able to provide us our Panama hats.

Flieger
07-19-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm really sorry to hear that, Robert. :(

Art Fawcett
07-19-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm sure that Robert will be able to continue getting panama's Gents, but the Espinal family are some of the best weavers in Equador and so the most fine ( museo quality) might be out of reach. I hope not, but that's basically what this means.

Panamabob
07-19-2007, 07:53 PM
Maybe I'm overreacting, but I've been told before that someone in Hawaii asked Simon not to sell to me. Guess who told me that. Simon did. When I picked up my hats this time Simon gave some stories about the kids being busy at school, yet his son called out saying that he would do a hat and then his daughter did too. I gave the deposit two weeks ago. Today I get the call that he needs to return the money because they can't do the hats for me. No other explanation. Again, maybe I'm dead wrong. The son makes hats in the 1200-1300 range and the daughter makes hats in the 1600+ range. I'll see them at Christmas and might hear the truth then. As long as Simon is contracted out, I'm afraid his family may be off limits.

A special note for Guy Sterling. You have no idea who we help in Ecuador. The people put up with the dark man because he shells out the money. They scoff and laugh at his "gifts" of eyeglasses and weaving blocks. Egoista is a common term. Keep to your own kingdom and quit stealing posts from here, twisting them, and trying to make yourself look better. You can see your name all over the internet identified as the scum that you are.

dzacca
07-20-2007, 01:38 AM
Bob,

I hope you can find out the truth when you see Simon again. This is a very very bad news, I hope, and I think all other loungers here do the same, that you'll be able to find out some kind of solution to have Espinal family in business with you again.

Achille
07-20-2007, 06:58 AM
Hello,
I'm only a new customer but I'm really sad to read this, Robert.

Unfortunately this is the same law for all grood(exceptional) handcrafts everywhere in the world. Good craftsmen are ususally more attracted by the minority who can pay high price rather than the majority who can pays less. Economicaly it a big error but it's human.
I hope that these weavers will soon understand what they loose and don't forget that a lounge like fedora is a powerfull communication tool, positively for you but, perhaps not for those whose trade is unfair.

Sincerily
J.M.

HungaryTom
07-20-2007, 08:19 AM
How many Espinal family hats are there at PanamaBob

Espinal Simon: 0 hats for PHM - Simon keeps to exclusive contract details are not our beer.
Gisella Espinal 1600 + hat -the one on the photo.
Carlos Espinal: 1200-1300 range.
And two other hats.
Same family name but the hats are different in quality-the wpsi numbers tell that.

Too good to be true - the Espinal family seems to be unsafe as hat body suppliers for PHM - their commissioned hats regularly land with Brent Black - as it seems there are much more wannabe owners than hats. Their hats seem to be only accessible for us if Bob buys them right on the spot -and as it seems someone is very quickly informed about that - info is available on FL.

Blocking PanamaBobs commissions happens the third time since fall 2006.

Are those weavers the only ones to produce those grades in a fine and neat rows which is called Espinal grade? If countermeasures from Hawaii are that prompt and agressive - can there be other weavers found? Or were they also monopolized?

What grades can be supplied with safety?

Regards>

Tom

Panamabob
07-20-2007, 08:37 AM
How many Espinal family hats are there at PanamaBob We've got about a half dozen left.


Same family name but the hats are different in quality-the wpsi numbers tell that. There are other very good Espinal weavers besides those three.


Are those weavers the only ones to produce those grades in a fine and neat rows which is called Espinal grade? No, but the name means that they can charge upwards of $100 or $200.00 more.


Their hats seem to be only accessible if Bob buys them right on the spot - and as it seems someone is very quickly informed about that. I have no secrets...If my brother-in-law would do his job, we wouldn't have near the problems we do. He is supposed to make weekly rounds to Montecristi and Cuenca. He clearly does not.


If countermeasures from Hawaii are that prompt and agressive - can there be other weavers found? Or were they also monopolized? There are other weaving neighborhoods and one is nearly as good as Pile. They are not monopolized, but I wouldn't put anything past some people. As I've clearly seen, the love of money is the root of all evil and money is easily made with these hats.




What grades can be supplied with safety? It depends on the grading system, but any hat up to 1200 can be had rather easily and upwards of 1400 if one is patient.

HungaryTom
07-20-2007, 08:48 AM
This is where I wanted to get Simon is really the best but one must really decide whether to throw in 8-10k for his hat or one can be satisfied with the world class of Panama Hatworks of Montecristi at prices which you can afford!
The best line of Bob is woven in the same quality and he co-operates also with the same US master hatters as his competitor.
Yes the 'Ace' brandname costs a lot (we saw the media campaign around Simon with our eyes), but at PHM you find quality - which is worthwile to be 'snapped' even by Brent Black!
The brandname will be different.

RedPop4
07-20-2007, 08:52 AM
Not to be selfish, or callous, or any other similar impression, the schmo like me, who'll likely never be able to afford the creme de la creme, won't be adversely affected by this? Oh, I'm bothered by it, if the Espinals are being goaded or in other ways coerced into this. My sense of overall justice is offended.

But I'm not likely to ever aspire to such a hat. To me a 400-500 will be the best I ever do. Are the rest of us to be slowly squeezed out of the market as well?
I don't know how many have purchased from you, but I know of one or two over at my other site, that I've steered your way, and I've made sure to dispel the myths told on that other Panama hat site in the process.

Prairie Shade
07-20-2007, 09:16 AM
I'm with Redpop on this. I have two I purchased from Robt 2-3 yeaars ago. They go about the same area for wpi. They are clearly superior to anything I see around (IMHO). So, their not the best, but their good enough for me!!

geckoheart
07-20-2007, 11:32 AM
I don't know how many have purchased from you, but I know of one or two over at my other site, that I've steered your way, and I've made sure to dispel the myths told on that other Panama hat site in the process.

And those on that other site appreciate it- it's probably more like 5 or 12.

RedPop4
07-20-2007, 12:44 PM
Hey buddy. Figured me out, did ya?lol lol lol

Panamabob
07-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Now I read somewhere, on a place where I can't be a member, that nobody knows me in the Montecristi hat world. Good. Those thousands of hats we sell a year must not hurt anyone else's business. Good. Unfortunately, the guy who writes demeaning things about ALL of us here is well known by about 90% of the hatters who come calling for hats (repeatedly calling I might add!) know a crook and name him by name.

RBH
07-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Keep up the good work Robert.

johnnycanuck
07-20-2007, 09:43 PM
So if we are looking for the lower Monticristi hats, 500wpsi and under, There should not be a issue in getting them?
Johnny

Panamabob
07-21-2007, 06:48 AM
There is no issue getting any standard hat from 100 to 1600 wpsi, just can't seem to get them from the nuclear family of Simon. Any non-standard hat (large crown/long brim might take longer, but I'm going to have to charge much more than normal) I did hear a follow-up that Carlos has to go work in Guayaquil to make money and Gisella has to concentrate on her studies. The first one isn't a good sign, is it? If Dad's hats are being sold for $5,000, $8,000, $10,000 or $25,000 (depends on the marketing ploy), you'd think that the young man wouldn't have to go to the big city to help support his family. The second point is A-OK with me. If Gisella needs to concentrate on her studies, she needs to concentrate on her studies. I'm still not getting an answer on mom's hats, so I'm not sure if these are valid reasons or if unfair influence (i.e. BULLYING) is happening or not. Eventually, it will all wash out and we will know exactly what is happening.

HungaryTom
07-22-2007, 03:35 AM
Title re-edited contents re-edited.
I must be concise:
Ģ Collect names of famous PHM buyers this is NOT greed but acknowledgement: Trent Johnson also did that.
Ģ Savior of hundreds and resurrecting the dead (industry)- job description for ??? Which Msc, PhD qualifies as a Messiah?
Ģ Maecenas of great artists - see photos of Casa Espinal and the demise of weaving careers of family members: a few days earlier they still weaved -Bob took their photos and hats (?!?) now in midsummer and school holidays Gisella goes for studying - [huh]
Ģ The top weaver of 10K hats forced to a point to tell simplest lies loosing also his face besides his money - his monopolised family's existence depends on that homo homini lupus.

Bob, just simply establish your hall of fame of buyers and continue your old path of credibility - in business, pricing and charity.

cookie
07-22-2007, 03:52 AM
Well, it happened. Simon Espinal called to say that his family can no longer weave hats for us. I'm assuming that there was some pressure from one of those heroes in Hawaii. Of course, I'll probably never know the truth. One more step toward monopoly for Hawaii. I hope he comes to see how he is killing the Montecristi hat industry. He who can pay the most money wins! Look for the prices to artificially inflate up again so that one man's ego can be stroked.


Bob don't say anything but you would have to think this is bigger than Montecristi. Here we have all this talk of dying industry and one person is monopolising all the stuff.... Doesn't sound like death to me! Like there is work a go go but no one wants to work for normal prices. This is now at the sense that they are doing something illegal under the Ecuadorian law but someone is covering their derrieres from on high. Good idea in life is always 'follow the money trail'. Mi dos centavos hombre....

Panamabob
07-22-2007, 08:21 AM
Well, if I was the self-proclaimed "saviour" of the industry, I would feel a failure that "my" hats fetched such high prices, yet the weavers don't want to stay and weave and "share" in the profits. If I'm "saving" an industry, don't I want everyone to learn how to weave magnificent hats, or do I only want to make a profit? The "saviour" has what, 15-20 good years left? I think he thinks along these lines: Why not make good money, live luxuriously, and then die? To hell with the industry.

I don't buy that saviour BS. With the money those hats fetch, Pile shouldn't be a dirt poor town and you'd think that Simon Espinal would have windows and doors on his house. The high school is nearly non-existant, and the elementary school is in dire need of windows, doors, and technology. Que verguenza! My face is red if I'm making thousands upon thousands of dollars off of these very, very poor people and the most beautiful thing in the town is the new soccer field that the town of Montecristi gifted to them. I know, I'll buy them eyeglasses, weaving blocks, and some other self-serving things so that I can make more money off of their hats.

There was a reason that the Ecuadorian governement denied the rights to the name "Montecristi" to one US Citizen.