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ohairas
08-01-2007, 11:44 AM
Hi girls~ my friend has very bad luck with men. She just dumped this loser after two years of me telling her to do so, which followed a bad divorce.

She is very naive. Last night we went to the grocery store together and there was a guy who you could tell was only there to scout for women... which sometimes that's ok if you're NORMAL. He was a coocoo! Within seconds he had about 10 strikes against him in my book, and she's hanging on every word he said! She took his number down and after he left I thought she would say wow, what a weirdo and we would laugh about it. Nope, I think she would've called him if I didn't nip it in the bud. I told her everything I thought was wrong with him and she just couldn't believe I could gather all that and how could I tell?
UGH. She is just very trusting and likes to see the good in everyone. She's very friendly and outgoing.

So, are there any books or articles I could give her?
Nikki

thebadmamajama
08-01-2007, 12:40 PM
"He's Just Not That Into You."

ohairas
08-01-2007, 12:51 PM
Thanks bmj! I'll look for it! ;)
Nikki

dhermann1
08-01-2007, 12:56 PM
It's a great life's task to even start to understand how our neuroses interact with the neuroses of the people we're attracted to. The child of an alcoholic gravitates to the one alcoholic on the room full of a hundred other people. The first step is accepting that that's what we're doing, even if we don't understand how or why. One book I read that was very helpful was
Harville Hendrick's "Getting the Love You Want". He was on Oprah (I confess! I watch Oprah from time to time!)
You don't want to develop an attitude that your emotions are WRONG, just to understand that the emotions have lives of their own.

Nashoba
08-01-2007, 01:16 PM
"He's Just Not That Into You."

that book is Fantastic Nikki. My best friend read it after I convinced her to leave this idiot she'd been seeing for 5 years. Put a lot of things into perspective for her.

Doctor Strange
08-01-2007, 01:16 PM
I think you're on the right track that you have to make an effort to understand YOURSELF in order to understand how you interact with others. My suggestion for an interesting (and seemingly pretty accurate) method to self-knowledge is the Enneagram:

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

Understand that I have never been one to jump on the self-help or pop psychology bandwagon before - I am traditionally profoundly dubious about this sort of thing, and actively avoid it.

But a good friend pushed a bunch of books about the Enneagram at me during a particularly low period (my separation/divorce), and when I read the detailed description of my Personality Type, I was utterly astonished: There were things from so deep inside me that I had thought to be totally unique and mysterious, yet here they were, WRITTEN, as a means of classifying higher- and lower-functioning (that is, less and more self-destructive) behavior within my Personality Type!

So, I read on. It all seemed to make sense, and it's helped me size up other people (especially their motives and MOs) better than I could before.

Anyway, it's quite interesting and might prove useful. Start at the Website for free, and only move on to getting the books if you're seriously intrigued. (At the very least, it might come in handy as a parlour trick at a party - "Guess your personality type!")

Disclaimer: I have been divorced since 2001 and haven't made it into a lasting relationship yet, so having self-knowledge is obviously only PART of the equation!

Paisley
08-01-2007, 01:17 PM
It takes experience to be a good judge of character. You have to make a lot of bad decisions and learn from them. But some people are eternally attracted to cukoos; my best friend likes that kind. I just figure she's never going to get married, and neither am I, so I don't have to share her with a boyfriend for long and I'll never have to share her with a husband or kids. :D

texasgirl
08-01-2007, 01:37 PM
"Women Who Love Too Much"
It's more about getting your life together to be able to accept Mr Right when he shows up- and recognizing him if that makes sense.

Book description
This is the world-renowned, inspiring, practical program for women who believe that being in love means being in pain. Based on the multi-million-copy bestseller, Women Who Love Too Much presents a clear, comprehensive, 10-point recovery plan for women who are addicted to the wrong men for the wrong reasons. Among the vital lessons you will learn in this program are: How to change from loving someone so much it hurts, to loving yourself enough to stop the pain. How to free yourself from destructive loving and build a healthy, meaningful relationship. This step-by-step self-awareness program offers help, understanding and, above all, hope -- the pathway to making love the truly happy event it is supposed to be.

LolitaHaze
08-01-2007, 01:39 PM
The Joy of Cooking and the Kama Su... lol :p :eusa_clap

Gary Crumrine
08-01-2007, 01:57 PM
Mrs. Crumrine has a couple divorced friends that have the same problem. Being able to "read" another person is an art, and I don't know if it can be easily acquired ... except, of course, by born cynics.

There's another issue, however. How do you recognize a potential mate even if you meet him / her? Due to her friend's situations, Mrs. Crumrine and I have had several wonderful discussions, and this is were our minds currently are. First, the personalities have to match. Both must be male, or both female. The difference is found in the "string of pearls" concept. A male personality will focus on the big pearl. A female personality will give equal or near-equal credit to each pearl individually. Comfortable communication between a male personality and a female personality is quite unusual. From a perspective of happiness, however, it really doesn't matter whether the personalities are male or female as long as they are both the same (not necessarily equal on the continum of male or female, but just on the same side of the centerpoint). Our personalities are both male, and we are blissful. We have friends that are both female personalitied, and they, too, are blissful. Obviously, we don't communicate well with the other couple, nor them with us, but we enjoy them for brief moments. I'm sure they feel the same.

Even after you've found a personality match, you're not through. Now you have to ask yourself "If I were a man (woman), is this the man (woman) I would wish to be?" You see, that's not the test of whether he (or she) has faults, for we all do. It's the test of whether or not his or her faults are bothersome.

So there you are. If you find someone you can communicate with (ie, with a personality the same gender as yours) and none of whose faults are bothersome, then you have a match. What you do with it is up to you.

ShortClara
08-01-2007, 02:06 PM
I might suggest reading "Atlas Shrugged". Not everyone will be into it, but it changed my life in terms of recognizing when people are simply not honest or real, and for learning to truly know what respect is. The love and respect for yourself comes first.

A is always A, baby

Kitty_Sheridan
08-01-2007, 03:10 PM
You see, I think it is possibly an American thing.
Books don't help, not really. Apart from Jane Austen, she spoke a loooot of sense. She also died single.
Tell her to get out there, and stop looking! I dated so many losers rather than be alone and when I stopped looking one of my best friends presented himself and I thought 'hang on..where've you been all this time?'
Also, buy a copy of Kelis' album and take up kickboxing. Her song 'out there' and its rousing chorus of 'I hate you so much right now!' really helps to get over a break up.;)

Lady Day
08-01-2007, 03:39 PM
I didnt know Mr. Right was in a book! A phone book? Hes listed! :eek:

Off I go!

LD

Miss Neecerie
08-01-2007, 03:56 PM
Look under....Mute Male Models.....

Marc Chevalier
08-01-2007, 04:13 PM
You see, I think it is possibly an American thing.

Bingo. We are the world's most avid consumers of self-help books. It's a market-driven optimism, and has been so for ages.

.

Vintage Betty
08-01-2007, 05:13 PM
Than why didn't I get paid better when I worked at bookstores...hmmmm?

Marc Chevalier
08-01-2007, 05:34 PM
and the Kama Su... lol :p :eusa_clap

It's always great to know a gal who loves se...lol :p :eusa_clap

.

Miss Neecerie
08-01-2007, 05:34 PM
It's always great to know a gal who loves se...lol :p :eusa_clap

.


Marc....don't even -start- that in the PR.........

Marc Chevalier
08-01-2007, 05:36 PM
Understood. Bye! :rolleyes:

.

ohairas
08-01-2007, 09:05 PM
LOL! You all are cracking me up! Thank you for all the great suggestions.:eusa_clap
Nikki

ohairas
08-01-2007, 09:09 PM
Doc this is much like a book I have, Please Understand Me. It's like a seventy five question test, then it lists your personality type. I freaked out when I read mine, just me to a T! It also pegged my husband, and said that our types were compatable. A very neat book. Everyone that I made take the test was surprised.
Nikki


I think you're on the right track that you have to make an effort to understand YOURSELF in order to understand how you interact with others. My suggestion for an interesting (and seemingly pretty accurate) method to self-knowledge is the Enneagram:

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

Understand that I have never been one to jump on the self-help or pop psychology bandwagon before - I am traditionally profoundly dubious about this sort of thing, and actively avoid it.

But a good friend pushed a bunch of books about the Enneagram at me during a particularly low period (my separation/divorce), and when I read the detailed description of my Personality Type, I was utterly astonished: There were things from so deep inside me that I had thought to be totally unique and mysterious, yet here they were, WRITTEN, as a means of classifying higher- and lower-functioning (that is, less and more self-destructive) behavior within my Personality Type!

So, I read on. It all seemed to make sense, and it's helped me size up other people (especially their motives and MOs) better than I could before.

Anyway, it's quite interesting and might prove useful. Start at the Website for free, and only move on to getting the books if you're seriously intrigued. (At the very least, it might come in handy as a parlour trick at a party - "Guess your personality type!")

Disclaimer: I have been divorced since 2001 and haven't made it into a lasting relationship yet, so having self-knowledge is obviously only PART of the equation!

princessofcandl
08-01-2007, 10:18 PM
I don't care what ya'll say about me but this is what I always recommend:

1# The Rules - (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780446618793&itm=5 ) a must have for dating. It is not as bad as you may think. It tells girls how to take it slow. How not to give too much away. Red flags to look for. And such. If nothing else I think it helps to deflect the idiots cuz they won't wait around.

and #2 How to Marry the Rich - (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780425133057&itm=7 ). Again, its not as bad as it sounds. It is about evaluating what you want out of life and in a man. You take your found set of standards and thats your criteria for a date. Its not all about money. In fact she says your definition of rich may just be comfortable steady income and a home you love. Its not about gold-digger stuff either. But it does address self esteem and learning thats its ok to have expectations.

I dated hubby for 8 years before I agreed to marry him (I wanted to finish my degree). We will celebrate our 3rd aniv. this December. He's seen and read these books. And he agrees. The books tell you not to tell the dates about the info but I would flat out say..... "I have a rule about setting weekend dates after Wednesday. I find I'm usually booked by then." He immedietly started to set our Friday and Saturday dates on Sunday. He's not a planner but he would "reserve the day" as he would say.

reetpleat
08-02-2007, 02:23 AM
"He's Just Not That Into You."


Actually, You're Just Not That Into Him Either would be better in this case.

I was given an mp3 player with it on it amongst other books. That is the only reason I read (heard) it.

It is about how women are too often hung up on men who are not only just not into them, but they sholdn't be into. A little negative on men. But kind of fun to listen to.

reetpleat
08-02-2007, 02:25 AM
that book is Fantastic Nikki. My best friend read it after I convinced her to leave this idiot she'd been seeing for 5 years. Put a lot of things into perspective for her.

Haven't read it, but I kind of get the impression it purports to ask women to wake up and see reality, but then vilifies men as being too "not into them."

When truth is, men have every right to not be into any woman they want. But maybe I am being too hard on the book. Does it hold women accountable, or vilify men?

reetpleat
08-02-2007, 02:29 AM
It takes experience to be a good judge of character. You have to make a lot of bad decisions and learn from them. But some people are eternally attracted to cukoos; my best friend likes that kind. I just figure she's never going to get married, and neither am I, so I don't have to share her with a boyfriend for long and I'll never have to share her with a husband or kids. :D

Not sure if I agree. I think we are all innately excellent judges of character. It is our own make up that makes us choose to ignor the signals, or as mentioned, be drawn to the people we think we want to avoid, but subconsciously want to be around, even if it is not good for us.

Don't you think the people attracted to cukoos can spot them a mile away in a split second? With amazing accuracy.

reetpleat
08-02-2007, 02:34 AM
Mrs. Crumrine has a couple divorced friends that have the same problem. Being able to "read" another person is an art, and I don't know if it can be easily acquired ... except, of course, by born cynics.

There's another issue, however. How do you recognize a potential mate even if you meet him / her? Due to her friend's situations, Mrs. Crumrine and I have had several wonderful discussions, and this is were our minds currently are. First, the personalities have to match. Both must be male, or both female. The difference is found in the "string of pearls" concept. A male personality will focus on the big pearl. A female personality will give equal or near-equal credit to each pearl individually. Comfortable communication between a male personality and a female personality is quite unusual. From a perspective of happiness, however, it really doesn't matter whether the personalities are male or female as long as they are both the same (not necessarily equal on the continum of male or female, but just on the same side of the centerpoint). Our personalities are both male, and we are blissful. We have friends that are both female personalitied, and they, too, are blissful. Obviously, we don't communicate well with the other couple, nor them with us, but we enjoy them for brief moments. I'm sure they feel the same.

Even after you've found a personality match, you're not through. Now you have to ask yourself "If I were a man (woman), is this the man (woman) I would wish to be?" You see, that's not the test of whether he (or she) has faults, for we all do. It's the test of whether or not his or her faults are bothersome.

So there you are. If you find someone you can communicate with (ie, with a personality the same gender as yours) and none of whose faults are bothersome, then you have a match. What you do with it is up to you.

I recently read a book talking about similar, as in male energy and female energy. However this author asserts that while male or female energy can relateand get along, sexual spark comes from polarity, as in, on partner being or relaxing int otheir male energy, and the other, even if just temporarily, falling into their female energy or side. Not commenting on your relationship. Just your comment.

Paisley
08-02-2007, 08:39 AM
I think we are all innately excellent judges of character. It is our own make up that makes us choose to ignor the signals, or as mentioned, be drawn to the people we think we want to avoid, but subconsciously want to be around, even if it is not good for us.

Don't you think the people attracted to cukoos can spot them a mile away in a split second? With amazing accuracy.

We all have some intuition, but it gets better with experience. Spotting cukoos is one thing; recognizing them as such is another. As I mentioned, a friend of mine goes for cukoos, but she thinks they're marriage material. She's read all the books including Why Men Love Bitches, He's Just Not That into You, You're Just Not That into Him, etc. Those books may be good for people who are willing and ready to change but just need information. The problem is that if someone isn't serious, they aren't going to attract serious people. Water seeks its own level.

ShortClara
08-02-2007, 08:41 AM
I have to agree with princessofcandl - I have a girlfriend who swears by The Rules. When she was single she had to beat them off with a stick, all by following the rules, and now she's married to one of them.

Paisley
08-02-2007, 08:51 AM
One of the authors of The Rules is now divorced by choice--her ex-husband's choice.

There's value in not acting desperate, but I'm not sure how a man is supposed to know a Rules girl from a woman who isn't interested. If someone didn't return my phone calls, I'd assume they wanted me to buzz off.

PA Dancer
08-02-2007, 10:24 AM
I read He's Just Not That Into You awhile ago.
It's a funny book!
It's by two of the people that used to work on that show called Sex And The City.
But for how much humor is in it, there is a lot of truth in it too.
I am one of those people who don't know how to stop giving and helping and being nice...so it was a good book for me to read. You'll start reading thru the pages thinking....awww man...I gotta stop doin that....oh..I do that.

Now...if you want to read one of the guys books on how they pick up women get The Game. The concept of it all is horrible...but informative.

Lady Day
08-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Look under....Mute Male Models.....


How about a Jackie Wilson look-a-like? :rolleyes:

LD

Miss Neecerie
08-02-2007, 12:11 PM
How about a Jackie Wilson look-a-like? :rolleyes:

LD

Hey however you want him to look...

I just recommend the ones that can't actually talk......words always mess stuff up and shatter all illusions.

Lady Day
08-02-2007, 12:12 PM
Thats what ear plugs are for. Both parties included ;)

LD

Paisley
08-02-2007, 12:39 PM
This is one reason I have a dog.

Lady Day
08-02-2007, 12:47 PM
Amen! :eusa_clap

LD

princessofcandl
08-03-2007, 12:33 AM
[QUOTE=Paisley]One of the authors of The Rules is now divorced by choice--her ex-husband's choice.

Actually she was busy working her tail off... he suddenly got tired of NOT being the center of the universe and had an affair. HER choice was to not work it out and left him to be with the other woman. IMHO she was correct.

Paisley
08-03-2007, 07:43 AM
Here is one news account (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20040929/ai_n12562045)of the breakup:


NEW YORK -- The writer who lectured millions of women on "time- tested secrets for capturing the heart of Mr. Right" has now blamed the break-up of her marriage on her dentist.

Ellen Fein, author of the 1990s best seller The Rules, accuses a New York "dentist to the stars" of botching work on her teeth, leaving her with "life-altering injuries" which helped cause her divorce.

"My marriage disintegrated -- of course there were other issues -- but all the complications that came from the procedure were the things that led to divorce," she said of the cosmetic treatment she had eight years ago.

The revelation that what Fein calls her "gigantic teeth" led to the end of a 16-year marriage has provoked mirth in New York, where many young women still follow her advice to ensnare eligible bachelors.

Strangely, failed dental work was never cited as an important factor in finding, or keeping, a husband in her series of relationship bibles: The Rules, The Rules II, The Rules for Marriage, and The Rules for Online Dating.

The books were so successful that the expression, The Rules, was trademarked. The aim of the series was marriage "in the shortest time possible."

After marriage, wives should treat their husbands as "a client or customer they want to keep happy," said Fein, 46, and her co-author, Sherrie Schneider.

However, in Fein's case marital bliss fell victim to the strain that followed an operation to put veneers on her teeth, she claims.

And this (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BDW/is_20_42/ai_74699230) bit of withholding:


Interestingly, while she filed for divorce early in 2000, Fein didn't bother to tell her publisher until covers for the book had already been printed. Until there's a second printing, the jacket copy reads, in part, "Ellen and Sherrie (Schneider, her co-author), two longtime married women themselves, know that just because you've married the man of your dreams doesn't mean your work has ended; good marriages don't happen by accident."

And an out-and-out lie (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/4402/):

Rule 36: Don't Deny You're Divorcing

Rules III (The Rules for Marriage) will hit the stores this June, and Paramount has optioned the rights to the notorious gaming guidebook for single women, but unbeknownst to her devoted followers, author Ellen Fein is about to lose her man. She and her husband, Paul Feingertz, have both filed for divorce for abandonment in the Supreme Court of Nassau County. When contacted, Fein -- whose Rules include "Don't Stare at Men or Talk Too Much" and "Don't Call Him and Rarely Return His Calls" -- denied that she and her husband were splitting. "We are happy and there are no papers being filed. My husband has no lawyer. I have an entertainment lawyer but no divorce lawyer," she insisted. Her attorney, however, disagrees. "There is a divorce action between Ellen and her husband. I represent Ellen," said Stephen Gassman. Louis Reich, meanwhile, confirms that he has filed for Feingertz. Yet Fein's denial continues. "There are no problems. I really can't comment. I have a client consultation now," she told us. And that, girls, costs only $150 for fifteen minutes.

If I were looking to get married, I'd seek advice from my wise old friend Opal, who has an unimpeachable character, went through a divorce, and had a 50+ year happy marriage that ended with her husband's death.

thebadmamajama
08-03-2007, 08:08 AM
When truth is, men have every right to not be into any woman they want. But maybe I am being too hard on the book. Does it hold women accountable, or vilify men?

Au contraire! It really doesn't villify men, it explains to women (like me, *cough*) who simply don't know how the process works and helps women have the guts and self-esteem to know that we're worth being wanted and sought after by the right men. I don't agree with EVERYTHING in it, but I read it and gave it to all of my friends because it showed me my worth--it helps many women, who tend to get hung up on anyone who gives them attention (not everyone, of course) to stop sittin' around and be ourselves and find the right one. :D So, it's more about changing women's attitudes than beating up on the guys. :)

Leading Edge
08-03-2007, 08:14 AM
Here is one news account (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20040929/ai_n12562045)of the breakup:
". . . However, in Fein's case marital bliss fell victim to the strain that followed an operation to put veneers on her teeth, she claims. . . "
And:
"Interestingly, while she filed for divorce early in 2000, Fein didn't bother to tell her publisher until covers for the book had already been printed. Until there's a second printing, the jacket copy reads, in part, "Ellen and Sherrie (Schneider, her co-author), two longtime married women themselves, know that just because you've married the man of your dreams doesn't mean your work has ended; good marriages don't happen by accident."


Hence, the "in sickness and health" clause: just because you've both managed to set it up doesn't mean you can just kick back and put your feet up. Expecting the unexpected also means you've got to be ready to cut your losses.

princessofcandl
08-03-2007, 08:16 AM
One of the authors of The Rules is now divorced by choice--her ex-husband's choice.

There's value in not acting desperate, but I'm not sure how a man is supposed to know a Rules girl from a woman who isn't interested. If someone didn't return my phone calls, I'd assume they wanted me to buzz off.

*cough* here's me not returning your phone call.

Feraud
08-03-2007, 08:17 AM
I just recommend the ones that can't actually talk......words always mess stuff up and shatter all illusions.
You must be lookin' for the stong silent type. :)

Katie Brookes
08-07-2007, 01:00 AM
I just recommend the ones that can't actually talk......words always mess stuff up and shatter all illusions.

i dated a very pretty boy from Albania a few years ago and we had to talk to eachother in Italian as i didn't know Albanian and he did not know English... oh and his Italian was awful... it was wonderful.

Paisley
08-07-2007, 11:47 AM
Relationship book authors have a wide variety of credentials.

Barbara DeAngelis has a Ph.D. from a diploma mill and has been married five times.

John Gray also has a degree from a diploma mill. As an aside, he was married to Barbara DeAngelis.

It's not clear what the credentials of Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo are (they're the authors of He's Just Not That Into You). He's a comedian, she's an actress. However, many a truth is spoken in jest.

Dr. Phil has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of North Texas. He is divorced once and has been married to his current wife since 1976.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger has a Ph.D. in physiology (not psychology) from Columbia University and a certificate in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling from University of Southern California. She is divorced once and currently married. According to Wikipedia, "She has received additional criticism because her California Marriage Family and Child Counseling (MFCC) license has been inactive for several years."

Judge Judy has a law degree from New York Law School and practiced family law, both as an attorney and a judge, for over 20 years. She's been married three times (twice to Jerry Scheindlin, her current husband). Between them, they have five children and several grandchildren.

Judith Martin (aka Miss Manners), according to Random House, was "Born in Washington, D.C. and reared there and in foreign capitals... [she] spent 25 years at the Washington Post...A graduate of Wellesley College, Mrs. Martin has been awarded several honorary degrees...Judith Martin and her husband, a scientist and playwright, live in Washington, D.C. They have two perfect children." No word on whether she's ever been divorced.

princessofcandl
08-08-2007, 12:13 AM
Relationship book authors have a wide variety of credentials.

Barbara DeAngelis has a Ph.D. from a diploma mill and has been married five times.

John Gray also has a degree from a diploma mill. As an aside, he was married to Barbara DeAngelis.

It's not clear what the credentials of Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo are (they're the authors of He's Just Not That Into You). He's a comedian, she's an actress. However, many a truth is spoken in jest.

Dr. Phil has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of North Texas. He is divorced once and has been married to his current wife since 1976.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger has a Ph.D. in physiology (not psychology) from Columbia University and a certificate in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling from University of Southern California. She is divorced once and currently married. According to Wikipedia, "She has received additional criticism because her California Marriage Family and Child Counseling (MFCC) license has been inactive for several years."

Judge Judy has a law degree from New York Law School and practiced family law, both as an attorney and a judge, for over 20 years. She's been married three times (twice to Jerry Scheindlin, her current husband). Between them, they have five children and several grandchildren.

Judith Martin (aka Miss Manners), according to Random House, was "Born in Washington, D.C. and reared there and in foreign capitals... [she] spent 25 years at the Washington Post...A graduate of Wellesley College, Mrs. Martin has been awarded several honorary degrees...Judith Martin and her husband, a scientist and playwright, live in Washington, D.C. They have two perfect children." No word on whether she's ever been divorced.

You obviously have waaaaaay too much free time. You should pick up a hobby. :)