Smith and Wesson Model 22 Revolver .45 ACP

[Lincsong]

Does anyone have one of these pistols? I was thinking of buying a semi-automatic and this is always advertised in American Rifleman. What's the positives to this piece?

[thunderw21]

I don't own one but I shot one. They are nice pistols. I like the 1911 setup so it was familiar to shoot. I wasn't a big gun nut at the time so I can't tell you much else. [huh]
But they are nice handguns.

P.S. Seriously, I thought I was still on ARFCOM when I saw this topic title. :D

[Lincsong]

Well, you know, Golden Era men think alike. :arated:

[Lincsong]

With the 3 inch barrel the Ultra Covert II only weighs 25 ounces. Not bad at all.

[HoosierDaddy]

I started collecting 1911 pistols prob 25 yrs ago. Colts in the begginning. Gov...Commander...Officer's Mo...then finally a GoldCup. In the '90s I purchased a Kimber "Custom Defense"at a gun show. Right outa the box it consistantly maintained a great grouping. Tolerances seemed tight...and action smooth. I was impressed. IMO..for the money..a great single action .45for sure. Since then..I've purchased several models of the Paraordnance .45 with can hold twice the ammo with wider grip. Slicked out by a competent gunsmith they have grouped better than any .45 I've shot. In fact...now my favorite carry package. However...Kimber is certainly top of the line right out of the box...with custom features...trigger,etc.
HD

[cooncatbob]

I don't have a Kimber (yet) but their reviews in the gun mags are always outstanding. I'm mainly a revolver guy (S&W) but when I finally get a 1911 it will be a Kimber.
Bob.

[Lincsong]

I see that Smith and Wesson is introducing revolvers it once discontinued. However, the Model 22 Revolver .45 ACP is actually just more styled in the manner of Smith and Wesson's Golden Era. This is an updated version of the M1917 it produced to arm WW I doughboys. Anyone out there familiar with this piece?

[carebear]

Several guys over on COW have bought them as "Indy guns". They all report being pleased with the action and finish.

They are available all over the online auction sites and are now on the Cali DOJ approved list.

5-1/2"

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/150199_thumb.jpg

4"

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/150195_thumb.jpg

[Ecuador Jim]

I started collecting 1911 pistols prob 25 yrs ago. Colts in the begginning. Gov...Commander...Officer's Mo...then finally a GoldCup. In the '90s I purchased a Kimber "Custom Defense"at a gun show. Right outa the box it consistantly maintained a great grouping. Tolerances seemed tight...and action smooth. I was impressed. IMO..for the money..a great single action .45for sure. Since then..I've purchased several models of the Paraordnance .45 with can hold twice the ammo with wider grip. Slicked out by a competent gunsmith they have grouped better than any .45 I've shot. In fact...now my favorite carry package. However...Kimber is certainly top of the line right out of the box...with custom features...trigger,etc.
HD

Kimber Arms makes great pieces. Great advice though about having a good gunsmith to help pull all the potential out of whatever you buy. If money is no object, check out Wilson Combat. They have some of the finest 1911's in the world...of course they're real proud of them too

[Lincsong]

Cali DOJ approved list? For conceal carry???[huh]

[carebear]

Though it's common now, Kimber was one of the first manufacturers to put "custom" features on their production 1911's.

Now it's the non-modernized pieces that take the looking for.

[carebear]

If a new handgun is not on California's "safety list" it cannot be sold in the state.

Just another hoop to jump through with no real positive benefit.

[Lincsong]

Amazing! Considering that crime is rampant in all parts of the state. Oh oh, let's not get political. Now back to the basics of this pistol.

[AeroDillo]

The repro guns are nice...but they aren't like the old ones. We have three in the case where I work (a Chief's Special, a Model 21, and a Model 22) and while they show considerably more craftsmanship than some of the other items, the originals just have a different...feel. It's difficult to explain.

Plus, all the classic reproductions have those infernal internal locking devices.

Overall, not too bad...but I'll stick with my moldy oldie.

[eightbore]

Plus, all the classic reproductions have those infernal internal locking devices. Overall, not too bad...but I'll stick with my moldy oldie.

The gun gods have reserved a special place in hell for the politicians and lawyers who require the modification of classic designs in this way. Further, why would one pay $800-$900 for an inaccurate reproduction when a half decent original pistol can be found for almost half price?

JMHO,

eightbore

[eightbore]

Now, I like their craftsmanship, but the problem with Kimber is that they don't make anything really resembling a retro mil-spec pistol. Now, for some really nice retro revolvers and autos serving this purpose, check out www.usfirearms.com. They make some REALLY nice stuff.

JMHO,

eightbore

[Rooster]

I'll stick with the old ones. Go to a couple guns shows and you'll find what ever you're looking for of a vintage age . Gunbroker.com and Auictionarms.com are a couple place to find vintage guns too.
I'm in the market for a .25 colt auto at the moment. 20's or 30's era as the craftsmanship of that era isn't found today.

[Absinthe_1900]

I picked up a nice older S&W at a gunshow that was someone's unfired nite-stand gun, they are still out there.

[Feraud]

Y'know, I'm beginning to think we need another subforum/"room" for "vintage personal-protection"--that way, us hoplophiles can carry on to our hearts' content, and the hoplophobic know not to enter that particular door and don't have to worry about seeing "our nasty guns" if they heed the signs.

Call it "Precinct 13", maybe?:D

As firearm owner and enthusiast, I see absolutely no need for a room for vintage personal protection.
I have read very little information to make me think enough members carry vintage era firarms for protection.

You made a similar request for an additional room in this thread (http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=19000). I added a thread (http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=19047&highlight=recipie) to see how many people would contribute kitchen recipies. Four pages of replies tells me the interest in contributing to such a room is somewhat low.

Just for clarification there are threads where gun guys can chat. I do not recall the anti-gunners going in and spoiling the fun.
With respect to the hoplophobic, how about if fiream talk is kept out of vintage discussions. The comments are never vintage minded nor ever on topic.
A discussion on topics like neckties or shoelaces does not need to include how to injure someone with them.

[Erik]

The positives? Only that it is representative of a by-gone era in American craftsmanship. They do not, quite literally, make them like they used to. Fear not, though, I handled a Model 22 in excellent condition a few days ago that caught my eye. The seller was asking $400 for it. That would be money well spent compared to what $400 buys you in the new gun market, these days.

Erik, who is a "gunnie" to the extent that he judges firearms and their owners the way many around here judge clothing and their wearers. After all, if function is all you are after, you could go to the Gap. :p

[RondoHatton]

If a new handgun is not on California's "safety list" it cannot be sold in the state.
Just another hoop to jump through with no real positive benefit.
Make that ANY handgun not on the gun hating pol's pay-to-play list (no expensive "test"? No sale). Tried to "jump through hoops" recently to no avail - just you try to purchase a Savage model 1910 - it's not been made in almost one hundred years, but it is not on the "list" (on list: Savage model 1907 pistol, caliber .32 and .380., Savage model 1915 pistol, caliber .32 and .380., Savage model 1917 pistol, caliber .32 and .380.), so any dealer within a hundred miles (if they will transfer at all, including exhorbitant fee) will not touch it - from another dealer upstate!
And Gov. TotalRecall has signed a new goody-goody bill we can all feel safer about - since semi-auto pistols are baad baad, they must all now be smarty-pants magic bullet guns which stamp the shucked shell somehow with your contact info, since after all, guns are witness to crime ( a pol's quote) they can now have a clear conscience by testifying! Unless of course using an altered or stolen pistol, or revolver, rifle or shotgun... Oops, those are next! Nurse! There goes my singing dectective exzcema!
Years ago (before "Indy") I got to shoot the daylights out of a S&W model 1917 .45 revolver w/half moon clips - great pointer, great action, classic good looks. If Smith has produced a similar modern model, it has a transfer bar ignition or the like I asume?

[Story]

Good place to read up on folks' experiences with the new Model 22s -
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve?cdra=Y&s=884106832

[dr greg]

As a licensed shooter for long arms I don't have any pistols, and don't really need 'em on a farm, so I'm no "hoplophobe" as you call it, but it seems to me that this discussion skirts close to irrelevancy in regard to the majority of discussions on this forum. A case could be made about the merits of "repro" culture vs the vintage article, but only on technical grounds not really of interest to those who don't actually carry the things. It also occurs to me that if this discussion was taking place in an actual physical space, especially where alcohol was available, the "inanimate objects" that seem to excite y'all over there so much, might well be drawn by this stage! :)

[carebear]

To sum up.

If you want a new revolver with a bright finish that matches a classic, vintage, issue revolver (aside from the internal lock) of the 1st half of the 20th Century, these may be a good choice and are available in some states where the originals may not be.

You can still get the genuine article for less fairly easily, but it is more likely to have a little "character" on the finish.

Both genuine and replica holsters, belts and other associated items are also available.

Finally, the Indy guys over at Club Obi-Wan seem to be pleased with the examples they've seen.

[Jovan]

A question: This is .45 ACP, right? How are the cartridges held in the cylinder? Most magnum cartridges I've seen have a rim at the end that extends beyond the case, if that makes sense, so they are kept in the cylinder without sliding forward. Most semi-auto cartridges I've seen like the .45 ACP simply have a groove at the end so the gun can feed. I don't know the correct terms... rim, rebated rim, etc. are all Chinese to me. :( If anyone could explain all this to me, I'd appreciate it.

EDIT: 45th reply for a .45 gun thread... lol?

[carebear]

Here's a good link.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon%2045%20AR%20DPX%20Ammo%20Test.htm

The .45 ACP can be fired in these revolvers and headspace (rest) on the case rim. You can see how the edge of the case mouth is wider than the bullet, it rests on that "ledge".

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/images/45%20ACP%20230gr%20FMJ.JPG

What it won't do in that situation is extract. For that, they have to have full or half "moon clips" snapped onto the case in the rebate below the rim. That lets the extractor star of the revolver lift the moon clip (with the expended shells still clipped in) out of the cylinder.

http://www.moonclips.com/images/45acp2MCHtop_small.jpg

There was a round developed to allow extraction without clips called the .45 Auto-Rim which, as you might guess, was a rimmed cartridge otherwise identical to the ACP. It didn't really catch on though, especially when 1911 production ramped up. Remember, for the most part these .45 revolvers were produced to supplement the 1911 as there weren't enough available for the requirements of trench warfare.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/images/45%20Auto%20Rim%20230FMJ.JPG

[Jovan]

I'm a little confused. -_- Do you have a picture of what you're describing?

[eightbore]

Carebear is right about the necessity of moon clips and this is the issue that has really kept ACP revolvers from catching on at all. Now, not all revolvers have this extraction issue. One can buy a single action Colt, Ruger or US firearms that will shoot and, of course, extract without moon clips. This is possible because the mechanism is not an "extractor star at the back of the cylinder but an ejector rod that is pushed through the cylinder, into the case and punches them out one by one.

How's this for vintage appeal?

http://usfirearms.com/cat/lendlease_prewar.asp

http://usfirearms.com/im/lend1.jpg

1700 smackers kinda stings but darn she's a pretty piece!

Best,

eightbore

[Jovan]

Ah, I see. I think I have seen those clips before in pictures on world.guns.ru.

[RondoHatton]

It also occurs to me that if this discussion was taking place in an actual physical space, especially where alcohol was available, the "inanimate objects" that seem to excite y'all over there so much, might well be drawn by this stage! :)
These inanimate objects and alchol have been pretty much available together here for two hundred years and we do OK so far despite some european false notions of disarmed superiority & objections to freedom. Thirty years ago Rondo worked in a gun store which hosted private events where fine arms were sold and fine brandy poured - and no arguments.
My understanding was that the S&W 1917 could headspace a round in the cylinder, and be ejected with a pencil, but the Colt 1917 would not contain the round without half moon clips or using auto rim rounds. Wish I had one of each.

[Rooster]

Wish I had one of each.
There's a bunch of them out there, all it takes is a little dough.....;)

[eightbore]

Thirty years ago Rondo worked in a gun store which hosted private events where fine arms were sold and fine brandy poured - and no arguments.

Just a couple years ago there was a small shop around downtown Flagstaff Arizona that sold guns, liquor, cigs and porn. :) To my knowledge it is still legal in Utah for CCW holders to drink in a bar while carrying. I have no problem with that either.

eightbore

[fatwoul]

...us hoplophiles can carry on to our hearts' content, and the hoplophobic know not to enter that particular door and don't have to worry about seeing "our nasty guns" if they heed the signs...

This is almost absolutely off-topic, but I was interested in the use of "hoplo-" in this context because, as a fishkeeper, I know about hoplo catfish. I always wondered what the name meant, and now I've realised it probably refers to the fact that they are armoured catfish. Cool. What makes them stand out from any other catfish (since most are armoured) is anybody's guess, but still, it was fun to learn this.

Thanks, guys. Sorry to interrupt. :)

[carebear]

From the Greek "hoplon" which (I understood) means "weapon".

An irrational fear of weapons, as weapons, being inanimate objects, cannot rationally be feared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobe

And I'd like (somewhat hypocritically) to remind everyone that personal attacks are not tolerated, nor do we need snarky comments and generalizations from either side of the issue.

Neither is the Lounge an appropriate place for discussions of 2nd Amendment or other political issues regarding firearms.

[scotrace]

Housekeeping note: This thread has been heavily pruned to remove off-topic content. I don't want to see any of it return (or this, my own post, commented on).

Thanks.

[Jovan]

Thanks, scotrace.

[carebear]

Thanks, scotrace.

Jovan,

I don't think this
(or this, my own post, commented on). means what you think it means.

:p

Just kidding. I am likewise thankful. :D

[Jovan]

ON TOPIC PLEASE. ;)

[carebear]

ON TOPIC PLEASE. ;)

Party pooper! :(

Lincsong,

If you're still with us. I forgot to ask what you were thinking of (primarily) doing with either handgun choice?

That might help determine either/or (though the choice in those situations should always be "both"). :D

[Lincsong]

Let's keep the talk to the positives of owning these pistols. What other good .45's are out there????

[Lincsong]

Carebear,

I was going to use them for target practice as well as personal protection.

[AeroDillo]

If you want a 1917, hit the local gun shows and pawnshops and looking for a Brazilian contract model. Basically, a U.S.-made S&W shipped by the tens of thousands south. The only difference is in the stamps (no US Property or flaming bomb marks, and a rather prominent national crest on the side plate).

I paid roughly $200 for mine (it was in rough shape) and then spent another $300 on a parkerizing job, and then $20 or so on new grips. The result is a gun that's almost weatherproof, fits my hand about the same as a K-frame Smith, eats recoil for lunch, and goes boom every time I pull the trigger. It has a particularly light single-action pull and a smooth double action, and on a good day I can get it reloaded faster than my 1911. It also never jams.

When I bought it:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9006/1917copylz4.jpg

After the refinish (with the 1911 for comparison) :

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3177/1117fi6.jpg

At present, with new grips. I'm still hunting a set of either originals, reproduction, or diamond/medallions. I'm not holding my breath.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5271/1917lo0.jpg

[Jovan]

Wow! Does that 1911 have that same finish? It looks better than the blued ones, IMO.

[carebear]

If you are planning to carry them (concealed) regularly, the 1911 is a lot flatter.

If not, I like revolvers, they have panache and a little more vintage-y feel.

[carebear]

Jovan,

The 1911 looks blued to me rather than park'd. It just has a lot of glare on the flat of the slide. Look at the cocking serrations.

[AeroDillo]

Jovan -

Yes. Both have the same type of finish, though the 1911 came from the factory that way. I find the finish on the revolver more attractive, but the auto is beginning to wear nicely.

I plan to acquire and park a Model 10 soon, though it may be a while.

CB -

Partially wear and partially lighting. I live in an Airstream, and the conditions inside are seldom good for any kind of photography. These two (both taken outside under natural light) show the effect in a clearer light.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2861/1911a1pe9.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1452/1911a1leftjb0.jpg

[carebear]

That is a good amount of wear then. Nice job on the revo.

I'm sending in my C&R License app. tomorrow. I'm hoping to get my collection of classic revo's started on the cheap. :D

[AeroDillo]

Mmmm....collection.

Speaking of, my next is going to set me back a whopping $129.95.

I love working at a gun shop. :D

[carebear]

Spent my formative gun years buying and selling the flavor of the month when I worked at a shooting range.

Funny I ended up with nothing designed after 1935. [huh]

I'll send you a copy of my license when it comes in.

[AeroDillo]

Meh. Plastic doesn't do much for me.

I want steel. Lots of steel. lol

[carebear]

...and wood. And the odd chunk of milled aircraft grade aluminum. :D

[Jovan]

That is such an attractive finish. Very vintage.

Okay, I know some of you gun freaks are going to kill me but, the reason I'm attracted to that 1911 finish and diamond grips is because of the one I saw in the original Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and Call of Duty games. Then I fired a 1911 clone in real life. I've been in love ever since.

http://mohaa.gamegate2k.com/images/Colt%2045.jpg

http://www.fkcod.pl/colt45.gif

[carebear]

"Gun freaks"? :eusa_doh:

That's "firearm afficiandos" to you. :mad:



Until you buy yourself that 1911 of course, then you can be a gun freak as well. lol

There are very few reasons most gun people view as illegitimate for liking a particular firearm anymore than most car people will get on you for liking a particular make and model.

[Jovan]

Ah, good to know. I just feel slightly guilty for playing those games and feeling badass for shooting people with those pistols... and liking the way they look. Or something.

[carebear]

Ah, good to know. I just feel slightly guilty for playing those games and feeling badass for shooting people with those pistols... and liking the way they look. Or something.

It's just a game. I'm sure you don't indulge the desire to go all Grand Prix at night on the streets of your city in real life.

Be warned though, they are more fun in real life. (not to mention expensive, responsibility requiring, addictive, expensive... :D )

[Jovan]

Indeed. What scares me is the accuracy of those games to real life in the feel of the "Colt .45." They have the same report (a sharp "BAP!" IIRC) and recoil. They did their research.

[AeroDillo]

Nah...the best videogame 1911 ever was in VietCong. :D

[eightbore]

For those interested in 1911s, you might note that Colt is producing a WWI reproduction 1911 currently. Note this is not a 1911-A1 so it has no lowered ejection port, sports a shorter hammer, lanyard loop and no relief cuts behind the trigger. They've even reproduced the script style for the rollmarks and added proper "US Property" markings. Street prices are sitting around $850 with the early 20th century Carbonia Bluing! Neat!

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Cumpston_Colt-WWI/ww1headcrono.jpg

[Twitch]

Hey Jovan that appears to mimick the old mil-spec Parkerized finish.;)

[Jovan]

Indeed.

AeroDillo: I remember playing that when it came out... I bought it, and got quickly bored with it. The weapon sounds could have been a little more realistic. The 1911 sounded too much like someone hitting a hollow plastic bucket, and the M60 had the most clichéd machine gun sound ever used in movies. The muzzle flashes looked like big yellow paint splatters. Also, the gameplay could have minimized the patrolling aspect a LOT. While that may be realistic to that war, it doesn't make for a very interesting game. Overall, I was a little nonplussed.

eightbore: I'm not buying from Colt themselves anytime soon, however. I honestly don't like the company anymore. That whole "M4" fiasco was complete and utter crap, and they are pretty much the first company with the gall to trademark a freaking MILITARY DESIGNATION for a firearm. Why it was even given to them, by the U.S. patent office of all places, is really beyond me. Also, they've shown their utter commitment to quality with their AR-15 design by... adding rails. And a removeable carry handle. Yep. That's 40 years' worth of research, development, and improvement, all right. :rolleyes: Never mind that the soldiers in the most common environment they're facing now can't so much as get one grain of sand in their rifles, lest they jam and die and make the operator die as a result.

I'd sooner buy Springfield's 1911 repro, given that they were one of the contractors producing them in WWII anyway.

[eightbore]

Jovan,

Actually, the current Springfield Armory Inc. is not remotely affiliated with THE Springfield Armory that produced weaponry for the military (see link below). If you want to really think about the issue of patenting government designations, Springfield Inc has been ripping off the defense department since 1974 with their very name and logo. Their 1911-A1 has also incorporated a loaded chamber indicator and a "lawyer switch" into the mainspring housing. Yuck. There's a special place in hell for those corporate officers authorizing the modification of John Moses Browning's designs. Now, I've also owned springfield 1911-A1s in the 1990s when Colt was producing total garbage. Thankfully, those days are gone. I also think you might be being a bit rough on the M4 and it's sensitivity to sand (problems largely solved in the Vietnam era have hounded the designs reputation for decades)...but it doesn't really matter....I like the M1A better anyway. :) :) :)

http://www.nps.gov/archive/spar/history.html

[Jovan]

From all I've heard from everyone who's been in the Army, my uncle included, the AR-15 design is still VERY flawed to this day. Thanks for the info on the current Springfield... I don't think their classic repro incorporates those features though.

[Lincsong]

Hmmmm:rolleyes: Just thinking out loud but, since Gentlemen's Clubs of the Golden Era had hunters and fishermen who belonged to such Club's, it would be appropriate for an Outdoorsman Section here where we can discuss pistols, rifles, fishing lines, rods, reels, camping, hunting, fishing, animal trophies etc.:)

[Nathan Flowers]

We could just restrict all of the gun, hunting, fishing, camping, animal trophies into one mega-thread, just like Show Us Your Purchases, or New Ladies and Gents Step Forward.

Just thinking out loud here.

[eightbore]

Hmmmm:rolleyes: Just thinking out loud but, since Gentlemen's Clubs of the Golden Era had hunters and fishermen who belonged to such Club's, it would be appropriate for an Outdoorsman Section here where we can discuss pistols, rifles, fishing lines, rods, reels, camping, hunting, fishing, animal trophies etc.:)

I LIKE that idea!

[Harry Pierpont]

Indeed. What scares me is the accuracy of those games to real life in the feel of the "Colt .45." They have the same report (a sharp "BAP!" IIRC) and recoil. They did their research.

Most of those WWII game makers, especially COD, & MOH actually went to a range and recorded the firing of actual weapons they have in the games

[Jovan]

True, Harry.

[Twitch]

Jovan don't be afraid to purchase a slightly used Colt made by the old regime. Believe me there are zillions of pistols out there that were gently used a few times an now reside in a drawer or the original box.

About 5 years ago I got a Python for $500 with original box. The guy had a Colt Gold Cup for the same price. I consider a gun still new if it has less than 500 rounds through it. Half the fun is finding a treasure out there.:)

[Jovan]

I'd really like a Python too... I'm not against purchasing from the old regime, FYI, just the current Colt very much pisses me off.

[MagistrateChris]

This has been fun reading to catch up. We started discussing the Smith 22/1917 revolvers, and evolved into a full discussion of 1911's and firearms in general. I have carried weapons professionally for two reasons in my life. Once, as a soldier of the Cold War, shifting from the 1911-A1 to the M-9, and the M-16A1 to the M-16A2. As a prosecutor, I found that I shot a Glock well enough, and it was sure easy to carry.

Now, a handgun is purely for protection, and also an object to reflect pride of ownership, and a "badge of rank." I do love my revolvers, but am cheating on them with my Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Mil-Spec. I love the classic look, but also now have scars on my hand from where the slide has buried itself in my hand repeatedly. Oh well, maybe I need a second 1911 for work, with a beavertail.

On the vintage front, anyone have a Fitz Special? My Smith 19 snubbie is about as close as I get.

[carebear]

Saw a Fitz modded revo (of the proper vintage) on an online site, but the seller, an actual gun dealer, didn't apparently know what he had.

[Lincsong]

We could just restrict all of the gun, hunting, fishing, camping, animal trophies into one mega-thread, just like Show Us Your Purchases, or New Ladies and Gents Step Forward.

Just thinking out loud here.

That would be really cool Zohar. :eusa_clap Let's do a mega thread with a poll of what Loungers like to do; hunt, trap, fresh water or deep sea fishing etc. I've been deep sea fishing out of the Golden Gate, got sick and never went back, but I've gone deep sea fishing in Florida and sea sickness hasn't been problem there. I really want to catch a marlin and have it mounted.

[Lincsong]

FYI right now I have a Ruger Model GP 100 .357 stainless with a 4" barrel. I really am just looking at getting another pistol for target and protection.

[carebear]

Since you have a revolver already, go for the correct era style 1911.

[Lincsong]

I am leaning in that direction.

[Lincsong]

We could just restrict all of the gun, hunting, fishing, camping, animal trophies into one mega-thread, just like Show Us Your Purchases, or New Ladies and Gents Step Forward.

Just thinking out loud here.

I was just informed that a such a thread was deemed inappropriate for the Lounge by a bartendress and she deleted.:(

[eightbore]

Well, since other manly topics are out of bounds for discussion I guess I'll head back to the somehow vintage appropriate "fake melons" thread above. :D [huh] :D

Best,

eightbore

[Rooster]

Well, since other manly topics are out of bounds for discussion I guess I'll head back to the somehow vintage appropriate "fake melons" thread above. :D [huh] :D

Best,

eightbore
How did I miss the fake melons?:eusa_doh:

[Twitch]

Lincsong I encourage you to find a pistol with which to punch holes in paper! It is simply fun. Both my adult daughters own pistols and shoot.

For my 2 cents there probably shouldn't be a whole topic heading devoted to outdoor activities covering camping, shooting, fishing, hiking etc.

Why not just start an Action Hobby thread and allows folks to let it flow as it may as one interjects his last trout fishing trip and then someone talks about skeet shooting followed by folks that had fun backpacking in Mexico.[huh]

Let's not make it difficult.

[Nathan Flowers]

I was just informed that a such a thread was deemed inappropriate for the Lounge by a bartendress and she deleted.

No, that's not it at all.

First of all, we're not going to create an individual forum for guns, hunting, fishing, trophies, camouflage, reloading, or other similar things that Eightbore refers to as "Manly Topics". Period.

If you want to show off a new firearm acquisition, put it in:
Show Us Your Guns! (http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=20647), in The Display Case

Likewise, you can put threads about vintage and vintage-styled rod&reels, lures, mounted trophies (we'll talk about that in a minute), and other ephemera in The Display Case as well.


If you want to talk about a vintage-styled hunting or fishing trip you took, put it in The Steamer Trunk

Look, several of you have been asking for a separate forum to be created to handle topics about hunting/fishing/camouflage and other "Manly Topics". You guys have ample (and appropriate) places to place such threads all over the Lounge. A new forum simply isn't needed, as these topics haven't numbered enough to warrant it.

Several of you were told this in the past few days. So, what do we see happen in the past few days? More and more topics about them. Okay, that's fine, BUT: none of these topics have been very informative, and the initial posts are hasty and brief. The thread on the '87 Winchester is probably the best example of this. The first 3 posts alone were:

anyone else really dig this gun?

Yup.

+1 ! ! !
The '87 thread didn't even have any pictures until Story posted one of Arnold Schwarzenegger from T2.

This, along with several other threads posted in the last few days are obvious attempts at swaying the conversation simply for the sake of talking about said "manly topics". It's artificial, and as such, it isn't going to sway those of us in a position to really push for new forums. In fact, it has soured even me, and I am probably the biggest gun nut/collector/hunter amongst all the bartenders.

Now as to the thread and bartendress in question:
As a part of this artificial and concerted "push" to post about manly topics, somebody posted a thread titled "Hunters; show us your trophies....." in The Display Case. This is the thread you're referring to.

Ordinarily, there probably would not have been a problem with a user posting pictures of their mounted trophies in The Display Case, but as it was part of the aforementioned overall push, the thread was removed. This thread in question was *not* intended to be the end-all be-all Mega-Thread regarding sportsman's stuff ("Manly Things"). It was simply about mounted trophies, and part of that concerted effort. As the Bartendress said, the way that thread was worded and posted, it does belong on a Hunting and Fishing forum. If it was "Hey, I have a vintage mounted moose head, here are some pics. What all do you have in a vintage mount?", then that probably would have passed muster. Again, what she told you was regarding that trophy mount thread -- it was not regarding an end-all mega-thread as you state above.


For my 2 cents there probably shouldn't be a whole topic heading devoted to outdoor activities covering camping, shooting, fishing, hiking etc.

Why not just start an Action Hobby thread and allows folks to let it flow as it may as one interjects his last trout fishing trip and then someone talks about skeet shooting followed by folks that had fun backpacking in Mexico.

Let's not make it difficult.

Yes! Spot on, Twitch. This is exactly what I'm attempting to get across. Such a thread about adventures could be posted in The Steamer Trunk, while the gun and hunting questions post could be included in a Sportsman's Thread somewhere else (we'll talk about where).

In summation -- Enjoy having the ability to post about such things in the many different areas of the Lounge. Many forums would not even allow 1/10th of the amount of stuff on said topics that MK does here. But, if the little short threads that are of questionable quality keep popping up all over the place and we determine that it's part of a push to steer the overall tenor of the Lounge towards such topics, we will act appropriately.

[eightbore]

It's a VAST right wing conspiracy! lol :) lol

Seriously, I think the main objective of Lincsong's suggestion is to avoid cluttering Attire and Accouterments with discussions of presumably vintage camp gear, avoid putting guns in people's faces in the Observation Bar and REALLY avoid absolutely freaking someone out with a picture of a dead elephant in a thread titled "old trophy" posted in the Display Case. A realm where vintage aficionados can be all "Tim Allen" if they want makes a bit of sense in the same way that there is a digital realm (two actually) here where women can discuss "Fake Melons" or vintage ways of dealing with menstruation. These are not discussions I really care to read or even wade through elsewhere any more than most women would want to wade through discussions (even vintage ones) that might interest quite a few men on FL.

I don't know the best way to deal with it, and I'm really new here so I won't pretend to be any sort of expert, but I think the lack of useful discussion on these "manly" topics so far may not have been due to a lack of interest in them (just look at the adventure gear thread) but rather I think because people are nervous about skirting too close to issues that might become political in a too "overt" and "public" way as they can't be avoided sitting in the middle of the observation bar or display case. In short, no hunter wants to rub a non-hunters face in vintage trophy photos of dead lions.

[huh]

Best,

eightbore

[Rooster]

maybe a vintage sportsman's hang out sort of thing.

[Nathan Flowers]

First of all, we're not going to create an individual forum for guns, hunting, fishing, trophies, camouflage, reloading, or other similar things that Eightbore refers to as "Manly Topics". Period.


^^ What he said.

[carebear]

First of all, we're not going to create an individual forum for guns, hunting, fishing, trophies, camouflage, reloading, or other similar things that Eightbore refers to as "Manly Topics". Period.


^^ What he said.

Oh sure. Take his side. :D

As one of those who requested a separate area, I did some checking. Even counting the latest group there are only about 70 threads that pop up when searching under firearms, gun, shoot, or holster. And less than half of those are explicitly related to the topic, the others just have offhanded mentions.

As MK accurately predicted, that's not really enough volume to justify a new sub-forum.

What we need to do is heed the bartender's advice and continue making sure the posts go in the most appropriate area.

Also, make sure they stay on topic, are truly vintage related in some reasonable way, avoid politics and avoid snarky comments on either side.

[Lincsong]

Hey, there's obviously a lot of gun owners, hunters and fishermen here on the Lounge. The Show us Your Guns thread has over 5200 views!!!!!:eek: So obviously people on The Fedora Lounge are interested in such topics. The reason there hasn't been many threads on such topics lately is because no one has started them. Judging by the responses and views of the threads we have there is a plethora of interest in such topics. At least with the current crop of threads we have injected some excitement. There are plenty of threads on other subjects that have less than 10 responses in one week, why not delete those rather than a thread still working it's way through????

All I wanted to do with my Hunter's; Show us your trophies thread was see what others on the Lounge have caught if any. :) If no one here caught anything and/or mounted it then the thread would have had no responses or posts and it would have fell into obscurity. But to delete it a mere 9 hours later, I started it at 8 p.m. PDT and it was deleted at 5:30 a.m., sounds a little pre-emptive and no pun intended a little fishy.lol I started the thread and asked if there were any members of the Lounge who have a mounted trophy whether it walks, flies or swims. Is that a concerted effort?????? What is the definition of concerted effort? If anything it's to gauge whether or not there are others on the Lounge who partake in such activities have an animal trophy. What is so inappropriate and scandalous about that??? But, the thread was deleted before anyone could have posted any pictures. That thread was started 48 hours ago. If it had no posts or replies by now then it should have been deleted. But, to pull it out in it's infancy, (started at 8 p.m. PDT when it's 11 p.m. on the east coast) leads one to think the move was arbitrary and capricious.

Anyway, we have a whole section devoted to beauty, fine for the ladies but most guys aren't going to find that kind of stuff of interest. We even have a thread on tattoo's.:eek: I don't have a tattoo, nor do I care for them, but I'm not in that thread casting negativity :arated:

I purposely titled the thread Hunters; show us your trophies so as to give readers a correct title as to what this thread was about so no one would be shocked to open up a simple "trophies" thread and see deer heads, boar, goats etc. Those of us who are engaging in such threads are; civil, courteous, knowledgeable and above all gentlemanly in our discussions of such topics. It is those who are against; guns, hunting fishing etc. who interject the negative karma that sour such threads.:)

I also mentioned fish and birds. How many people have seen a marlin mounted in a restaurant??????? hmmmm I'd like to see if anyone here caught one because I want to catch one.

Let's see, my rattler, alligator and exotic meats thread in Steamer Trunk has 132 posts and over 2500 views. I doubt a thread on hunting/fishing trophies would just wither and die on the vine. http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=16101

[Rooster]

I'll add my trophy deer if somebody makes a thread.

[Lincsong]

Awesome, Rooster. Some people are of the persuasion that there is little interest on the Lounge for such topics and pictures. :eusa_clap

[Lincsong]

Well, since other manly topics are out of bounds for discussion I guess I'll head back to the somehow vintage appropriate "fake melons" thread above. :D [huh] :D

Best,

eightbore


I didn't even read that thread until just now as I assumed it was about waxed fruit!!lol I see it's tied into "vintage" since the thread starter said that Golden Era Movie stars looked more natural. bahhahaahhahaahhaahhahahaha Talk about stretching the boundaries of conversation in mixed company. And with children present. bahahahahahhahahahaahha

[PrettySquareGal]

I didn't even read that thread until just now as I assumed it was about waxed fruit!!lol I see it's tied into "vintage" since the thread starter said that Golden Era Movie stars looked more natural. bahhahaahhahaahhaahhahahaha Talk about stretching the boundaries of conversation in mixed company. And with children present. bahahahahahhahahahaahha

Yep. I feel bad for those breast-fed children being exposed to such horrors. Dreadful. lol

Before I was a bartender I had had things edited or got tapped on the shoulder by a bartender and you know what? I respected their decisions, even if I didn't like them, because it's not my forum. It still isn't my forum. I and the other bartenders volunteer our time because we like this place and work to keep it consistent with what Mk envisioned. I'm sorry you didn't like my post or decision to remove your thread, but really, don't you think it's time to move on? carebear said it best, and Zohar explained the decision in great detail.

[Lincsong]

This thread is about Smith and Wesson Model 22 Revolver .45 ACP let's get back on the subject of revolvers.

[Twitch]

Lincsong a lot in what you mention I agree with. While I am no a hunter or fisherman I do enjoy reading accounts of other people's adventures and certainly think there should be an area that is tolerant to that. In the past 3 years I've been invalided for about 1 full year as I am now enjoy reading what others do in the outdoors that I can't anymore. It's neat reading about someone's day trip in the Bahamas fighting and landing a marlin even though it ain't vintage per se unless you tweak up some Hemmingway-esque mind picture to justify it I guess.

We don't all live by vintage stuff alone folks and there is more to life even as it intersects with the vintage aspects of our interests. Discussions are positively bound to wander. It's the nature of all forums everywhere.

I love the vintage pistoles people have posted images of along with their histories. That said, there is no reason why someone shouldn't post a photo of their modern .22 or .30-06 with their plans for use. It's all associated.

And in about every discussion scenario concerning firearms or hunting nothing is wrong till someone butts in with comments like "what do we need to talk about this for?" after dozens of individuals have discussed it in a neighborly way for several days. The spoiler that isn't interest in the topic doesn't just choose not to read or participate, he is compelled to make derogatory remarks and get turmoil started so bartenders will close the thread that the spoiler didn't approve of.

I've watch people do this many times. It very subtle but effective. THIS is the real problem. Where there is a "college football" topic and I don't care for college football I don't go there and say "college football sucks, why are you even discussing it?" But when there is a thread with verbiage about guns, fishing or hunting the complainers bust in and whine about what others are kindly and courteously discussing. Why?

I visit a forum with more than 200 topic headings! Sure all aren't super current but there are topics from poetry to archeology to cryprozoology, sculpture and statues to Atlantis. Most of the topics on the site are ancient history so it's a history forum, if you will. Point is they have a "sports" defined heading where you wouldn't find someone talking about Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican culture.

It seems to be narrowed down to the Display Case and Steamer Trunk or each for a different subject. But please, do designate so we can get on with some semblance of forum flow.http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a15/Twitch98/th_Tip-Hat.gif

[eightbore]

And in about every discussion scenario concerning firearms or hunting nothing is wrong till someone butts in with comments like "what do we need to talk about this for?" after dozens of individuals have discussed it in a neighborly way for several days. The spoiler that isn't interest in the topic doesn't just choose not to read or participate, he is compelled to make derogatory remarks and get turmoil started so bartenders will close the thread that the spoiler didn't approve of.

I've watch people do this many times.


And it seems to have reached a higher degree now. Rather than simply being forbidden from talking politics, there now exists a not so tacit prohibition on topics that may induce people lacking self control to POSSIBLY burst into a fit of talking politics. :) Of course, with every one of my or your posts on this very subject, we have simply increased the chance that this thread itself will be closed for the reasons described above. :)

[PistolPete1969]

As a "firearms enthusiast" (OK....raving gun-nut), I REALLY want a S&W model 22. I have handled them, and want one bad.

I have a Springfield Armory 1911a1 I adore. I have also owned two Brazilian Contract S&W 1917's, which I stupidly sold. The .45 acp revolver is a fun gun to shoot, and a breeze to reload with full-moon clips.

I say go for it...

Pete

[Blackjack]

I've shot my buddies, and I want one too! It is definatly a throwback to smiths great old revolvers and the case hardening on my friends is really nice. Also check out Cimmerons new 1911 in hi gloss blue, got that 20's gangster look all over it!!

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/moon-ray/pop_wm_2269470.jpg

[Vinnie pin stripes]

Well it just depends on what you want. Automatic can jam and usually at the worse time, a colt 1917 or a S/w is a dependable firearm. A colt side swing in 38 cal is a good weapon also. LIke said in my blue heaven, "Vinnie always like a 22 cuz it rattles around in your head like pac man until you die, but a 45 now that blows a barn door in your head and then there is a lot of dry cleaning and such."

[Heater]

Here is my grandfather's M1911 that he carried in the Great War.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/WilliamTheConqueror/picsofguns003-1.jpg

Here are the 45 ACP revolvers I've collected over the years, two Smith & Wesson 1917s, two Webleys converted to 45 ACP, a Smith 624 and a Colt 1917. I love the way 45 ACP revolvers shoot.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/WilliamTheConqueror/revolver005-2.jpg