BROOKS BROTHERS

[Matt Deckard]

Brooks Brothers: Beverly Hills

It is a well known fact that Southern Californians who wear suits in public, whether it be in the center of LA or the outskirts of Malibu, will be looked at as an oddity from another planet. Those you newly meet ask if you are on your way to a job interview, store employees ask if you are coming from a wedding and coworkers ask if you are going to relax. During the course of this day I will not be going to an interview I will not be attending a wedding and I do not need to relax. I wear a suit and tie because it makes me comfortable and the better the fit the more comfortable I am. This day I am going to Brooks Brothers in Beverly Hills.

Harbored in the middle of a street that is overwhelmed with shops selling the latest trends is a store which by it’s name should resonate with all men as the place that epitomizes the standard attire for the man on the street for over one hundred years. Oddly enough on the walk from the car to the store I was the only man I saw wearing this attire.
Inside you are greeted by tables covered in ties. Brooks Brothers as always is heavy with striped ties and I have several. The building is broken into several sections, to the left are men’s sports jackets and odd trousers, to the right is women’s clothing, in the back are shoes and accessories and upstairs are the men’s suits and children’s clothing. I head straight for the Sports jackets.

Probably the only attire outside of ties that I buy from BB is their linen handkerchiefs and sports jackets. I used to be a big fan of their shirts and their trousers; they are nice trousers, though the fit for me is not quite correct; too low for my waist and they don’t make them any higher. The shirts have really nice patterns, though the fit for me is too boxy and the collar leaves too much tie space for my liking. The jackets on the other hand are classic. The armholes may be a little low like all modern jackets, though the styles and patterns are right out of the 1930’s and 40’s. They’re no longer the best on the block when it comes to quality, though when you need a sturdy sport jacket with a timeless style this is the place to go.

The suits are another story. BB is the place where the suits for North by Northwest are rumored to have been bought for Cary Grant and I was hoping to find something along that vein when I got upstairs. I was disappointed to see that the 2 button models were stuck in the 1980’s style with a low button stance and wide semi curved lapels and the 3 button suits were very modern having narrow lapels with a strong curve to the cut, as if they just took 2 button models and added a third button (I know they didn’t do that), not attractive to my eye. Regardless of being tall or short the pants all had the same rise, only the off the rack suit jackets were sold longer or shorter -- Disappointing.

Downstairs again I wonder through the shoes and the accessories. The shoes are made by Alden and are top of the line. They only have “D� widths in stock and say they can order your size if you want (disappointed about the availability of sizes though they are quality shoes). Belts and handkerchiefs and scarves and socks, all of the highest quality. Even hats, though they are Borsalino made and obviously a low grade felt when compared to some of the hats I have seen by today’s other hat companies.
I decided to leave before checking out the women’s section.
It is nice walking around a store built around classic men’s fashion, even if it now carries women’s wear as well. Overall I was a bit disappointed with the shop. I expected a little more from this palace In Beverly Hills. Gone are the days where they had custom tailors on staff. the tailors replaced by Made to measure salesmen. The suits are made for drape rather than fit and the patterns are bland and designed to blend into the background of a political convention. I checked out their fabrics used for made to measure though they were so paper thin and I wouldn’t expect a suit made that light to last a year under the strains I’d put it through.

I like the store; I don’t like the direction toward blandness it has taken. Sadly enough I have to say that Ralph Lauren is more “classic Brooks Brothers� than Brooks Brothers. I left a bit jaded and knowing that the only thing I’ll be buying from BB for awhile will be sport jackets the occasional tie and linen handkerchiefs.

[PADDY]

Matt's quite right, often you wear a suit and folk look at you as if you have just stepped out of your art deco chromed space craft! fresh from the planet Zoot (as in suit! LoL).

I wear a suit, sometimes a waist coat too (depending on the frosty weather), shirt, silk tie (not the cleverest thing in the classroom with paint and pens!) and English patent leather brogues! Oh yes, and a splash of EDT, which often brings the response, OH Mr Middleton, you smell niiiiiiice!! (but that's just from the kids!!).

At lunch time, on the odd occasion I do manage to escape for a brisk walk into town, I'm very aware of eyes cast in my direction. I stand out in a world where suits just are not being worn (more likely it's nylon track suits and baseball caps and pierced nipples!). And 'yes,' I can feel uncomfortable with the attention because the town is economically deprived, high crime, high drug abuse..etc, and I do feel like a target at times! This is a land where people are afraid to smile, and the wrong eye contact can lead to violence. ( I know, what is the world coming to? or has it always been like that really..?).

(It does make it more of a treat though, at the end of the day, when I get to drive home into the countryside to my little cottage near the sea)

So 'why' do I dress up in this neolithic landscape where nastier versions of Fred and Barney roam around with their pet dino? Because it makes 'me' feel good to look smart and it's part of me being 'me.' I wouldn't wear a fedora in this environment, that would be courting disaster frankly, but the rest continues. Maybe I'm a latter day missionary, bringing the light of vintage civility to this 'heart of darkness!'

Get this..! last week, two men in their shell suits (nylon track suits) and baseball caps made a bee-line towards me in the street. I really thought I was being set up for an ambush, bit my lip and prepared to stand my ground and not make it easy for them. Then one of them said: "Could you give us a job mate!" Maybe he associated the way I dress with being affluent, or in a position to offer him work. I suggested where he could go to find something (as my pulse rate raced!), but it has got me thinking about dressing appropriately to the environment (sadly). You can stand out for the wrong reasons and make a target of yourself I guess.

But, do I want others to dictate 'how' and 'what' I dress in? I'm the very one who encourages my kids at school to think independently and express themselves for themselves! I need to think that one over. But as things stand, I do seem to be a creature from another era and in some eyes, another planet! But hopefully, a nice creature, if nearly extinct :-)

[GearHead]

Yes, Brooks Brothers is sadly a shell of its former self.
I've worn BB shirts for awhile now and just bought some new ones to replace my 10 year old shirts.
They are definately not the same. The cut is different and the quality is not there.
We have to dress in a busniess fashion at work but are not required to wear ties anymore. The only people you see wearing ties in the office are the sales people and that's only when they're going out to meet clients.
I usually were some nice wool pants with a BB shirt in the winter and on the occasion that I put a tie on I get looks from my co-workers.
I think they think that I have ajob interview at lunch or something.
Forget about it when I wear a sportscoat also. :)

Erick

[Mr. Rover]

I got a Brookease Size 16 blazer when I was around 13 for someone's Bar Mitzfah or wedding. It was a bit big, but now it fits pretty well, especially in the shoulders. For 15, I'm on the thin side so the size 16 boys' cut still fits me allright. The fabric is wayyy light compared to a 1940's Curlee Clothes suit I just bought.

[The Mad Hatter]

If you want the classic Ivy League look, try J. Press:

http://www.jpressonline.com/

Based in New Haven, Cambridge, New York, and D.C. , its most obvious shortcoming is that - for some reason - it has no store in Princeton. :) .

[Canadave]

If you want the classic Ivy League look, try J. Press:

http://www.jpressonline.com/

... its most obvious shortcoming is that - for some reason - it has no store in Princeton. :) .

Nor does it have a web site. :(

David

[Matt Deckard]

Nor does it have a web site. :(

David

They do have a catalog full of tweed jackets and striped ties. Very ivy league indeed. When I went to BB I was looking for more of that Cary Grant in North By Northwest or James Stewart in Vertigo look. Very man about town.

[The Mad Hatter]

Nor does it have a web site

I don't understand what you mean. :confused:

It's website is right here, just like I posted:

http://www.jpressonline.com

Just click this link.

[The Mad Hatter]

On closer inspection, it seems that just right now they have only a front page, the online catalogue is off line.

I don't know why - I ordered a bow tie from them online about a month ago. I would presume that they will be back up shortly.

[Mycroft]

I don't know what to think of Brookes Brothers, they have been bought and sold so many times in the last ten years that they have either lost themselves or found themselves in a wierd way. I like their ties still, though they are bit consevitive in some cases.

[Matt Deckard]

I don't know what to think of Brookes Brothers, they have been bought and sold so many times in the last ten years that they have either lost themselves or found themselves in a wierd way. I like their ties still, though they are bit consevitive in some cases.

I like the classic tie designs myself, though I don't like how theirs are the only ties I have owned which have become worn looking toward the tip within their first year.
I think Brooks Brothers has hope. They have been getting better over the past couple of years. Problem today is that clothes don't fit, and when you try on a suit and it feels like a straight jacket I think any body would go runnig back for their t-shirt, sweat shirt and jeans. If fit and tailoring return to the forefront I think style and class will follow and Brooks Brothers should be leading that charge. They should start by manning their stores with custom tailors. They have a body scanning device at their NY store, that is a start for getting a fit right.

[AlanC]

I quite like Brooks ties, and a couple I have are among my favorites. They compare well with more expensive ties, IMO. They can often be found in excellent to new condition in thrift stores, which is where most of mine came from. Their bow ties are first rate, too. And I'd really like to get a pair of their Peal monkstraps.

[Mycroft]

I heard that about their ties in thrift stores.

[Matt Deckard]

Hey Paddy, someday you'll have to take some pictures of the average joe on the street in their local wears so we can get an idea of what is considered daily attire in your neck of the woods.

Where do you buy your suits?

[Matt Deckard]

Here we go.

Now that's what I like to see.

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=225

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/109H_enlarged.jpg

[Vladimir Berkov]

Brooks did sort of get off track. It is getting better though, and most of the faults to be found are part of our age's general sartorial malaise rather than something they are particularly doing wrong. Simply put, Brooks needs to put things on the racks that it can sell.

For instance, Brooks's signature American sack suit/natural shoulder look is unlikely to change anytime soon. If anything, if they want to go back to their roots they will only stress this look more. Perhaps in the 1920's and 30's Brooks also sold clothes with the then more fashionable English drape, but I am not sure. Perhaps someone here who has seen a period catalogue knows?

Today the English drape look with the suppressed waist and high armholes is simply not fashionable in America. In fact, I can't think of anybody in the States that provides it (if anybody does know please tell me.)

Same with the wools they use. As much as I like vintage styles, it is entirely understandable why almost nobody wants heavier wool suits anymore. We have heated and air-conditioned virtually every space we are ever in so the extremes of temperature that made thicker wools so essential are almost non-existant. In addition, few men wear suits on a truly regular basis meaning that they need neither very sturdy suits nor a large variety of suits. Most men if they need a suit at all, want one suit they can wear all year round, and this means they need a lighter-weight wool.

It is sad though, because it means that those of us who really enjoy wearing suits and take pride in their drape, color and pattern are left with few choices at any price. Even vintage suits don't solve the problem, due to sizing and damage concerns.

[Kentucky Blues]

Those shoes are incredibly expensive...there's a store near me that has a pair of (irregular, most likely) Stacy Adams black and white wing tipped spectators for $24.99.....I couldn't imagine spending $300 something....

[Vladimir Berkov]

Shoes really are one of the places in your wardrobe where quality really does cost money. It costs a lot of money to construct a top-quality shoe with excellent materials and thus they cost a lot of money.

This doesn't mean that all expensive shoes are of excellent quality of course, there are plenty of shoes out there where you are paying for a name or a fashion statement.

[Wild Root]

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/145H_enlarged.jpg

These are for me! I want some! Total 1930's!

Root.

[Kentucky Blues]

I wouldn't mind a pair of those either, rob, though I'd also like a pair in brown and black....

[Matt Deckard]

I'm pretty impressed with these shirts, old school and on sale.
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=404

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/343E_enlarged.jpg

[Biltmore Bob]

Do y'all really pay that much for shirts?

[Matt Deckard]

Depends on the shirt. I get alot of mine at the Nordstrom outlet for $20.00, though if it is something I really like I'll go up to $50.00

I sometimes where the $50.00 shirts with suit coats i have bought for $14.00.

Cool to see that Brooks Brothers is again offering a 3-piece suit off the rack.

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/070K_enlarged.jpg

[jamespowers]

Do y'all really pay that much for shirts?

Geez, I hate to tell you that I paid $85 at Nordstroms---on sale! I had to spend a gift certificate my boss gave me last Christmas. I guess that means I didn't really spend anything. :p

Regards to all,

J

[Wild Root]

Good looking suit! Not bad for a modern BB. But, what do the vest look like? Is it two pockets or four?

Root.

PS. I buy my dress shirts at Thrift shops and pay about 3 to 5 bucks a pop. Yes, I'm cheap!

[jamespowers]

PS. I buy my dress shirts at Thrift shops and pay about 3 to 5 bucks a pop. Yes, I'm cheap!

Yep, cheaper than dirt. :p

Regards to all,

J

[shamus]

I've always gone to thrift stores since I was a little boy, but I never bought clothes. I'd buy toys and such. Then about 10 years ago I discoved clothes.

Now If a pair of jeans cost over 10 dollars I freak or a shirt more than 5. That being said, I will buy a pair of vintage levis for 200 (once) or a new pair of Bills khakies for 100. But that is a once a year thing.

Go Root at 3 bucks a shirt. Anymore and you're getting ripped off.

[Matt Deckard]

The jackets still have sort of a 1980's flare though they are heading in the right direction.

Peaked lapel 3 piece
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/074K_enlarged.jpg

and check out the pockets on thishalf belted bi-swing backed jacket.
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/275M_enlarged.jpg

[Veronica Parra]

and check out the pockets on thishalf belted bi-swing backed jacket.

That's what I mean, Matt: the fairly mainstream Brooks is once again featuring a belted back jacket. I don't think they're taking much of a risk here; belted-back jackets and suits will pop up in department stores within the next two years, you watch!

[Matt Deckard]

Then they need to learn to make them skeleton lined with tight armholes.

And other companies need to stop advertising suit and sport jackets worn with logo t-shirts and white sneakers.

[Veronica Parra]

Can't find your cap-toe spectator shoe anymore on the Brooks Brothers website. Out of season! Grrr.


Found this one, though. Very Duke of Windsor:

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=225&Product_Id=910738&Parent_Id=202

I would REALLY like a suede cap-toe oxford exactly like this, but in BLACK. Anyone seen any?


-- Marc

[Nathan Flowers]

If you can find the leather combination you want from Allen Edmonds, they can custom make you a pair. I had them custom make a pair of specs in Chestnut and White Glove last year.

[Vladimir Berkov]

Then they need to learn to make them skeleton lined with tight armholes.

And other companies need to stop advertising suit and sport jackets worn with logo t-shirts and white sneakers.

I have talked with their MTM people and they say they will do small armholes. I did not ask about skeleton lining as it really isn't a big deal to me, but they might be able to do that too.

[jake431]

Can someone explain to me what skeleton lining is?

Thanks,
-Jake

[BellyTank]

I've not heard of the skeleton thing but I guess it's the partial lining- the neck/shoulder, covered seams and sometimes full sleeves. As opposed to a 'full lining'.

B
T

[BellyTank]

I've noticed the peaked lapel is coming back on SB suit jackets recently-
-which is nice. Spied quite a few when exploring the City's dept. stores recently.

B
T

[Dalexs]

The jackets still have sort of a 1980's flare though they are heading in the right direction.

Peaked lapel 3 piece
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/074K_enlarged.jpg



It's funny you bring this up. This weekend, on a whim, I stopped by the
local Kappa Delta Fi (or whatever they call themselves) Swap Shop
and found a Brooks Bros just like this one, sans the peaked lapels.
4 Pocket vest. About the same color, maybe not so saturated.

I have no idea the age of the suit, but it ws in extremely fine condition.
My first thought when I tried it on, was that it didn't really fit that well.

After I got home, I told my wife about it, and on second thought, told her to go back and pick it up.
I figure, for the price, I might be able to get it tailored a bit.

She picks it up, and I try it on again. The sleeves are only a bit short and the pants have plenty to let out and cuff. It has one little moth hole on the lapel that needs repair as well.

The price: Marked at $10. Bought it for $5 bucks!

Gotta love thrift stores!

[ADGENTNC]

And other companies need to stop advertising suit and sport jackets worn with logo t-shirts and white sneakers.


I didn't think any self respecting, and or decently reputable clothier does this nowadays Matt. Sports Jackets possibly, but not suits, maybe 5-10 yrs ago, but surely, not now.

Which brings me to my next point, considering the decades we've been through since the golden age (ie 70's and 90's) we don't live in such a bad time for men's style. For the most part, mainstream suits have been becoming more and more proportionally and aesthetically tasteful. The resurgence in men caring what they look like and what their clothing is made of (cough/ preppy /cough) has led to a well dressed fella walking in the downtown or business district of any decent city the norm, not the exception. I think it's fairly evident that good taste is coming back to the forefront, and I'm pretty excited to be beginning my journey into adulthood right now.

REgards,
AD

[Matt Deckard]

Here is something frustratingly interesting.

I went to the Local BB outlet and bought a couple of their Vintage model dress shirts on clearance. They fit very well. I later found out they have their fitted fit. Fitted is not a word I would use for these shirts. The regular fit apparently has 4" extra fabric in the body and larger armholes.

[Matt Deckard]

I stopped by the Beverly Hills shop last weekend to try on their Harris Tweed action back jacket. I'm happy they ventured back into making things like this, though they need to give it the fit of their regular jackets. For some reason it was much bulkier with a very 1980's low cut button stance. They should try a three button model with the action back and work on getting some pleats under the belt. They can do it with women's clothes nowadays, though when it comes to men's fit the classic details are forgotten.

The jacket was fully lined making the action back useless (if they were going to do that they should have just made it a belt back sans pleats), and the pockets with the pleats were lined as well making them useless. I guess they never had function in mind. Someday they may get back to making functional clothes and I hope that day is soon.

[Vladimir Berkov]

I am not sure any high-end manufacturer is going to make functional suits again. The market has just sort of dried up, people today only wear suits for business or formal occassions. Nobody wears suits for leisure, travel, etc.

The coolest vintage styles often involve things like belted backs, action pleats, etc but seriously who uses those things anymore? You would have a suit which could never be worn as a business suit and is too casual to wear in the evening.

We can only hope I guess that the general level of formality in dress rises to the point where the suit is a legitimate item of everyday clothing again. People in this forum are on the cutting-edge of that movement and if we make our opinions known to makers like Brooks Brothers we might be able to get them to make some interesting things again.

[Matt Deckard]

/\
until that day.. make mine custom.

[Veronica Parra]

The coolest vintage styles often involve things like belted backs, action pleats, etc but seriously who uses those things anymore? You would have a suit which could never be worn as a business suit and is too casual to wear in the evening.

Damn straight, comrade. Sportswear still exists: but in place of action-back suits, we now have track suits. Multicolored athletic shoes are the spectator/saddle shoes of today. Action back jackets, double-breasted vests and bell-bottom trousers, all of which were fashionable in the '30s and the '70s, will come back again ... but they won't come to stay. Jeans and sneakers are another story ...

-- Marc

[Mycroft]

Damn straight, comrade. Sportswear still exists: but in place of action-back suits, we now have track suits. Multicolored athletic shoes are the spectator/saddle shoes of today. Action back jackets, double-breasted vests and bell-bottom trousers, ALL of which were fashionable in the '30s AND the '70s, will come back again ... but they won't come to stay. Jeans and sneakers are another story ...

-- Marc

Very good relating the past to the present, to bad style got lost somewhere in the midde (defently with the 70's).

[Senator Jack]

Having come across this site, and specifically this thread, I was compelled to immediately register as a member. Chiefly because I share your concerns in the dearth of style in men?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s clothing, but I also thought I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d relate to you my experience at Brooks Brothers.

Though a native New Yorker, here's a place I never set foot in till last year. My entire wardrobe is from thrift shops, tag sales, flea markets, and the like so I never had the need to bother with such a place. Plus I had always associated it with unctuous stockbrokers and oleaginous lawyers, and since they dress in every imaginable way I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t, it stood to reason that I wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t going to find anything at their temple. Well last year I got it into my head that for once I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d like to have a French cuff shirt that fits me perfectly - armholes are usually too big and sleeve lengths too long for someone my size - and then there?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the problem of actually finding appealing colors. While I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d always found pinks, greens, and yellows, for years I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d been searching for a vintage black without success. Then it dawned on me that no one had probably produced such a thing. Till the 90s, black was still considered the color of death. All right, so I set out to visit a few of the Madison Ave shops.

Salesmen show me shirts off the peg for $200. Armholes are too big, sleeves are too long and collars seem to have been designed with the circus in mind. ?¢‚Ǩ?ìBut don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t you have a narrow spread collar,?¢‚Ǩ? I ask them, (I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m fond of the razor sharp narrow tie which looks ridiculous with the wide spread collar) ?¢‚Ǩ?ìand something with removable buttons?¢‚Ǩ? and I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m given both the eye and the push for not wanting to shell out the $200 for something I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t want and is about ten times more than the price I pay for well-made vintage suits. Having had about enough of that, as a last resort I head into Brooks Brothers and from the get-go I think it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s going to be a washout because the doorman has stopped me to ask where I get my clothes from. But I do go round looking over the shirts with the collars too wide and one-size-fits-all-provided-they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re-not-me armholes and in a few minutes end up in the MTM department where for the first time in my day I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m greeted with any authenticity. (I, unfortunately, later found this salesman to be the only one in the store who possessed such manners as in the pants departments I was looked upon rather superciliously when I dared asked if they had anything flat front and tapered.) But after discussing my wants with the aforementioned he showed me his book of fabrics which consisted of 120 count Egyptian cottons as well as a selection of pricier 180 counts. I settled on the 120 black. ?¢‚ǨÀúOkay, let?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s try one out,?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ I said, and we go over the design. ?¢‚Ǩ?ìNarrow collar??¢‚Ǩ? He takes a few down from the shelf and we go with a pointed two and three-quarter inch. ?¢‚Ǩ?ìSquared cuffs??¢‚Ǩ? Sure. ?¢‚Ǩ?ìRemovable buttons??¢‚Ǩ? No problem. After going over the choices for pleats and pocket (?¢‚Ǩ?ìnone, thank you?¢‚Ǩ?) we step into the room to take measurements. Breadth of shoulders, length to wrist, and even the thickness of left wrist is taken so the cuff won?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t get caught up on my watch. Immediately I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m regretting having not lived in the days when the average joe with his average paycheck could get all his clothes like this. Twenty minutes later, and I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m off to the subway and home for a cocktail.

Five weeks later I get a call for the pick up. Salesman takes it out to show me and he realizes that something wrong with the collar. The stitching is a bit mangled. ?¢‚Ǩ?ìNo, it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not right,?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ he says, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìI?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m going to send it back,?¢‚Ǩ? and I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m thankful that I wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t the one who had to register a protest. Three weeks later I come back for another fitting and leave a spoiled man, so spoiled, in fact, that I ordered two more shirts (white and royal blue) on which he kindly gives me the ?¢‚Ǩ?ìbuy-three and save ten per cent discount?¢‚Ǩ?.

Did I spend way too much? Certainly, for my budget and spending history that is. But here I was able to buy tailored shirts for a great deal less than the off-the-peg shirts I had been shown at the other shops. And considering how little I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve spent on my suits, jackets, and ties over the years, (in the 80s I was buying vintage suits for about a dollar) by comparison to what others spend, it doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t seem such a great extravagance at that.

But overall, while my experience at Brooks Brothers was an enjoyable one, as I walked around the shop looking to find some great buy on the discount tables, I thought it too bad it isn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t the haberdashery it either once was or could be. Apart from the shirt in my bag everything else did bring to mind that detestable look of unctuous stockbrokers and oleaginous lawyers. I suppose I could have them do up a suit exactly as I want it, but in something like the $2,500 price range they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re for a far wealthier man than I.

In the end, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d just like to suggest that if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re in NY, and, like I did, ever had it in your head to buy a fitted shirt, you should visit the shop on 44th and Madison. I believe it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the flagship store. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m unsure if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d get such service at the other locations, and something point me in the direction of no.

Kind regards,

Senator Jack

[Matt Deckard]

Welcome to the Lounge Senator. It's good to know more about their custom shirts. Looks like you had a great experience. If I go custom I think I'll have to get the Button down Collar and French cuff look like you see on Cary Grant in some of his movies. Hope to see more posts from you in the future.

[Mr. Rover]

Welcome to the boards, Jack! My grandma lives in Queens! On Stanford Ave. near the Main St. post office. It's great to here you've had a pleasant experience.

ray

[Senator Jack]

Matt, I've been reading through the posts here and am impressed by the broad range of topics covered. You'll certainly be hearing more from me. I've gone around trying to explain the Cary Grant look to salesman all over New York. From what I'm then shown, it's either me or them, but someone isn't getting it. Same goes for the Fred Astaire look which I've always been partial to. Perhaps it's too intangible.

Ray, your grandmother lives about six miles from me. How do you like that for a small world?

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Corey]

In the end, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d just like to suggest that if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re in NY, and, like I did, ever had it in your head to buy a fitted shirt, you should visit the shop on 44th and Madison. I believe it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s the flagship store. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m unsure if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d get such service at the other locations, and something point me in the direction of no.

Kind regards,

Senator Jack

I'm a regular Brooks Brothers shopper, and after a visit last Christmas agree that the one on Madison Ave. is their best. Well, at least it is if, like me, you have to wear modern business attire on a regular basis. You diehard vintage wearers would probably be disappointed. :)

As for the custom shirts, while you won't get the same level of "hands on" service, if you know your measurements you can simply order the custom Brooks Brothers shirts via their catalog. I receive it regularly in the mail and it contains a wide variety of collar/cuff/fit options in various colors, patterns, and weights(?) of cotton (i.e. 80, 100, 120, 140). Interestingly, I don't think they offer the custom shirts via their website.

[Matt Deckard]

I do think it odd that they have the semi custom--you pick your collar, cuff, fit and material in their print catalog though they don't offer that online.

It's not made to measure, though it is pick the fit you like.

[jamespowers]

Don't waste your time at the Brooks Brothers in Palo Alto, CA. I think the place has the same color and pattern suit---just in different sizes. :p The place is sparse to say the least. They had a decent selection of shirts and ties though. Nothing I would wear but decent.

Regards to all,

J

[EL COLORADO]

Actually in that whole midtown/upper east side area, where Brooks is, there are quite a many stores that do custom shirts and suits and so on. All if not most, with vintage quality tailoring and very classy.

Those white brouges were definately tops!
Gotta have the top stiched soles daddy-o!

Very nice stuff. Especially if theres a hole in your wardrobe that needs to be filled fast, if vintage hunts are turning up cold.


EL C.

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, there's a lot up there, EC, but I find most of the sales people to be surly. A good place for shirts is Luigi's though the fabric isn't as good as BB. Tailoring is equal. They're in chelsea, but I don't have the address right now. The guy I deal with at BB is tops. Very affable, which means a lot to me. I don't like it when someone looks upon me like I ain't got the kind of jack to shop at their store or gives me an attitude when they show me something I don't like.

Cheers,

Senator Jack

[EL COLORADO]

Yeah,..but what do you expect at joints like that. If anything I just shake my head and chuckle when i see the prices that they charge for their stuff.
Sure the tailoring is nice,..but ULTIMATELY,.. the fabrics, patterns and styles are too plain jane. Know what I mean? Like, sure theyre sharp.
But theres sharp,.....and then theres vintage sharp!

And the two are worlds apart.

Gimmie my chalk stripes, my glen plaids, my bold herringbones, my buttery gabs, my wrinkle free wools, my sheeny camel hairs.

Who Brothers???

Ha, Ha! Yeah!



EL C.

[EL COLORADO]

Actually Ill give Brooks Bros their respect. Theyve been around a LONG time.
Theyre the last of the old timers.


EL C.

[Senator Jack]

I posted the pros and cons of BB earlier in this thread. Actually, there was only one pro: I wanted tailored french-cuff shirts that fit and they delivered. The rest of the stuff is pretty bad. But if you really want truly bad, go to Thomas Pink. And have a really good laugh at the prices while you're at it.

Cheers,

Senator Jack

[EL COLORADO]

Definately gotta have the black french cuff shirt. Makes the links really stand out.
Where do you get your links?
When you hit manhattan, definately check out, The Missing Link, on 25st btwn 5 & 6 Ave. Nutin but vintage mens jewlery. Theyre in the basement of an antiques mall,...they got teriffic stuff.

[Senator Jack]

I've been picking up links for years. Estate sales, antique shops, etc. People used to look at me like I had six heads whenever I asked for black french cuff and now they're all over the place. (though no one seems to get it right) Same thing with flat front pants. I never heard of Missing Link but I'm definitely going to go over there. I'm looking for a silver art deco black face watch. (I'm always really specific in my yearnings) Thanks for the tip.

Regards,

Sentator Jack

[EL COLORADO]

Flat front pants,...black french cuffs. Thats early 60's man.
I tell you, that era does NOT get the credit it deserves, as far as the clothing cuts and styles. The sharkskins, the mohairs, the stingy brims, porkpies and skinny ties, the sunglasses. Awesome. A tighter and somewhat more reserved look from the 40's and 50's ,...but sharp as heck!

And it didnt last that long. Maybe up to around '65 or something like that,...and then the hippies came and the whole cultural revolution and flipped it all upside down. With day glo and psychedelic prints and leisure suits and dressing down, and all that stuff that people usually think of as sixties style.

EL C.

[Senator Jack]

Yeah I still do the narrow tie, slim jacket, stingy brim look. Though I've got away from sharkskin. It looked better on me as a younger man. What I can't stand is when I'm walking around in my 60s clothes and people say 'Hey, you look like the Blues Brothers.' I guess film references are about the extent of knowledge people have of history. I always turn around and say 'Really, I thought it was Sam and Dave.' Of course, that's returned with a blank look.

As I wrote in earlier posts, I love the razor sharp look of that time - '58 to '66. Even Jack Weston looked great in a milano hat, dark suit, and narrow tie. (Remember the original Thomas Crown Affair?) I saw that as a kid back in the 70s and said 'That's for me.' I suppose if people for once said to me, 'Hey you look like the guys in the Thomas Crown Affair' I would think them a bit more knowledgeable.

Cheers,

Senator Jack

[Vladimir Berkov]

The early 60's look is indeed sharp. Think Sean Connery wearing that grey three-piece suit in Goldfinger.

[Mycroft]

The early 60's look is indeed sharp. Think Sean Connery wearing that grey three-piece suit in Goldfinger.

I love that suit, where can I find one?

[Mr. Rover]

That was a beautiful suit! I think they used it as an example when Matt Deckard was first advocating the need for higher cut armholes.

[EL COLORADO]

I love the early 60's suits. It was a cool new evolution (It was also unfortunately the very last era of "true" vintage style.)
Unlike the drapey, wide cut, patterny gabs and wools of the 40's and 50's,....the early 60's were all about taperedness and fabric sheen.

The spy/euro look of Thomas Crown and Bond are fine.
But when I think early 60's,...I think Brock Peters at the end of "The Pawnbroker".
Or The Rat Pack.
Or Nat King Cole.
http://www.kpnemo.ru/media/images/Nat%20King%20Cole%20-%20The%20World%20Of%20Nat%20King%20Cole_t.jpg



To me, that is untouchable 60's sharpness!!!




EL C.

[Matt Deckard]

The jacket was fully lined making the action back useless (if they were going to do that they should have just made it a belt back sans pleats), and the pockets with the pleats were lined as well making them useless. I guess they never had function in mind. Someday they may get back to making functional clothes and I hope that day is soon.

Just thought you needed a pic.
http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/275M_enlarged.jpg

[Wild Root]

That to me says: Say bud, how about this nifty little late model job! She's fully loaded! Shall we take it for a test drive? Come on, make me an offer! That price isn't written in stone! :p

It's nice to see them try to bring it back! I'd like to see them finally get the cut right! Get that strong 80's cut completely out! The pockets are smart and it's a good sign on their behalf. You know, if you can find an original belted pleated coat like that, it's going to save you money then dropping five Franklins on a modern repop.

=WR=

[Matt Deckard]

by the by... whoever dressed that man has no sense of pattern combinations. Jacket and tie okay... shirt no!

[Blueberry]

Brooks Brothers has different quality suits. The Brooks Ease is a great suit that does not cost as much, and gets less wrinkled due to the way they stiched it. You can also just get separates which is nice as usually the pants wear out first.

The 810 suits are $799. However they have sales at least 2x a year where they have over 25% off on the suits. They are Super 110's, and are really nice suits and feel great. I have 3 of these suits.

The next step up is the Marty Greenfield. I have one of these suits and though it usually is $1,000 approx, I got it for $699 on sale. They usually have the gold thread on the shoulder so you can tell which ones are Marty's. These are the ones that the presidents and other famous people buy. These are Super 120 suits, everything hand stiched, there is more weight to them, pockets are nicer, more of a liner in the pants, and they have that shimmer to them.

[Matt Deckard]

I bought one of their Harris Tweed sport coats today... something I have been eyeballing for a few months and waiting for a sale (I usually do not, though the price was too high for me to just buy).

I needed something to replace the old plaid I had been wearing for a couple years straight (I was getting board, so sue me).

Hopefully this jacket will have a long life and lots of trips. Pretty heavy and warm so it will spend some time in the closet since I am in California.

The lapels are a little narrower than I would like, though it has a very good shape.

Same problem as most all modern menswear... THE ARMHOLES ARE BIGGER THAN THEY NEED TO BE.

I will write them a letter about this.

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/223M_enlarged.jpg

[Harry Lime]

I like the cut of the jacket and the angled pockets. Very nice and a lot of style for off-the-peg. Too bad about the artmholes but I'm sure you'll make it work, Matt. You'll undoubtedly accessorize it better than this model.

Harry Lime

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, I went to the sale this week too, Matt. Unfortunately, everything I came home with wasn't on sale. That always seems to happen. I finally picked up those pyjamas that I always had my eye on, but I' think I'll spare everyone the pictures.

I don't know why I torture myself by trying on the jackets. I know going in what the armholes are going to be about, and I must look the idiot sucking my teeth at every one of them. It did keep me away from the suit department though.

Speaking of armholes again. There's a major men's clothing chain from Europe that just opened their first store here in NY - the first in the U.S. It's called 4You, and I was surprised to find their armholes are cut high. The suit designs are a cross between modern and 60s, but as usual, the material has that sheen that makes them definitely modern. Will anyone ever get it right again?

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Baron Kurtz]

Yeah,

Speaking of armholes again. There's a major men's clothing chain from Europe that just opened their first store here in NY - the first in the U.S. It's called 4You, and I was surprised to find their armholes are cut high. The suit designs are a cross between modern and 60s, but as usual, the material has that sheen that makes them definitely modern. Will anyone ever get it right again?

Regards,

Senator Jack

I found the same thing with H&M. The armholes aren't vintage-high but they're higher than standard modern. Cheap too. Or they were a couple of years ago - i think i paid $45 for a black pinstripe velvet hacking jacket. I don't know what their prices are like these days.

The good thing about H&M is that they have *small* sizes. Their 36 is pretty much like a modern US 34 fit. Pity most of their stuff is garbage. Same with Zara, which i believe is a Brazilian knock-off place doing the same ideas as H&M. Zara is a bit more expensive, though ...

bk

[Baron Kurtz]

You'll undoubtedly accessorize it better than this model.

Harry Lime

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/223M_enlarged.jpg

I dunno. I like the tattersall shirt on the model. It lends a certain appropriate country air to the tweed. And the mustard cords (or are they moleskin?) top off the look perfectly. With a woolen tie, the look would be prefect. Shoulders look at least 2 inches too big for him (model), though ...

bk

[Quigley Brown]

[QUOTE=Matt Deckard]I bought one of their Harris Tweed sport coats today... something I have been eyeballing for a few months and waiting for a sale (I usually do not, though the price was too high for me to just buy).

I needed something to replace the old plaid I had been wearing for a couple years straight (I was getting board, so sue me).

Hopefully this jacket will have a long life and lots of trips. Pretty heavy and warm so it will spend some time in the closet since I am in California.

The lapels are a little narrower than I would like, though it has a very good shape.

Same problem as most all modern menswear... THE ARMHOLES ARE BIGGER THAN THEY NEED TO BE.

I will write them a letter about this.

Is it vented?

[Harry Lime]

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/223M_enlarged.jpg

I dunno. I like the tattersall shirt on the model. It lends a certain appropriate country air to the tweed. And the mustard cords (or are they moleskin?) top off the look perfectly. With a woolen tie, the look would be prefect. Shoulders look at least 2 inches too big for him (model), though ...

bk

I think it's a dull ensemble. Mustard is a hard color for 90% of the population to wear, this guy included. There is a red undertone to his fair skin which makes mustard a terrible choice. A grey, or even deeper green or blue, would be much better. Likewise the tattersal is a poor companion to the coarser fabric of this jacket. The tie? Just a dud.

Matt will come up with something much better, I assure you. A littel vinatge mixed in with some better color choices will make this jacket really nice. Matt, post pictures when you do this. I'm betting on you.

What are the odds on Matt vs. Catalogue model?

Harry Lime

[Matt Deckard]

I went with a Tattersall shirt of a more muted pattern and a pair of darker brown trousers. Red yellow and blue striped tie looks fantastic. Thankfully the red tone of the jacket lightens up my hair a bit and goes well with my skin tone.

I'll get some pics soon enough.

All the sport jacket ensembles that were in last seasons catalog could have been done better.

[Senator Jack]

Mustard just looks bad on white men, but always looks good on black men. Same thing with the plaid suit. I love the 50s/60s Southern black gentleman look -plaid suit, mismatched vest, white shoes, white belt, - but I know whenever I try on a plaid suit that I look like a used car salesman!

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Hemingway Jones]

I bought some dress shirts for work from Brooks Bros. I bought the non-iron with forward point collars and they are very very nice. What was nicer? I bought them at noon on Wednesday and they were at my door when I got home from the office the next day! Amazing. In 24 hours, they were mine.

[Mycroft]

I bought some dress shirts for work from Brooks Bros. I bought the non-iron with forward point collars and they are very very nice. What was nicer? I bought them at noon on Wednesday and they were at my door when I got home from the office the next day! Amazing. In 24 hours, they were mine.

Yea, those no-iron shirts are a steal, I think they were $150 for three or somewhere around there. I am so excited though since suposively Brookes Brothers is coming back in full with tradtional clothing.

[Matt Deckard]

2006 skidoo

I'd like clubs at schools to start wearing these. regimental ties are one thing... Though the jackets... oooooh!

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/276M_enlarged.jpg

[Hemingway Jones]

Matt,
J Crew has a jacket like that as well. Though I can now safely say that Brooks Bros. quality is much nicer. (http://www.jcrew.com/catalog/product.jhtml?id=prod73797611&catId=cat100047)

Forgive me if you've said this, but did you see in their description for their sack suits that the armholes are higher? I was going to check these out this weekend.

All the best,
HJ

[Baron Kurtz]

An old eton one just sold on blighty bay.

The BB and JC ones appear not to have the hole in the breast pocket for the school badge/emblem. An oversight!

bk

[herringbonekid]

i'm not familiar with this 'hole'.
please enlighten.

[Baron Kurtz]

The ones i've seen had a plastic-covered circular cut out on the brest pocket, into which could be placed a school/team badge or emblem. I guess the badge could equally be stitched onto the jacket. Probably the ones with the hole were from a bulk supplier of such jackets. Certainly the school blazer they used to use - not when i was there - at my school had such a "hole". Eton etc. students would, i'm sure, have theirs made to measure by their tailor.

bk

[Vladimir Berkov]

I saw that blazer at the BB in San Antonio, and it called to me. Unfortunately I didn't have $500 on hand to buy it.

Another blazer I wish someone would reproduce is one worn by an extra in Brideshead Revisited, which is khaki with burgundy stripes of the same width, about 3/4 of an inch.

[Baron Kurtz]

http://www.thepennyfarthing.com/images/prisprd2.jpg

[Matt Jones]

http://www.thepennyfarthing.com/images/prisprd2.jpg

Yes, piped blazers need to make a comeback! Anyone who disagrees is unmutual.

Be seeing you!

[Hemingway Jones]

It warms my heart to see Number Six popping up around here.
Did you all know that his jacket was actually a very dark brown and not black as everyone assumed? It's true. Copies of his jacket show up on eBay from time to time, usually from the gift shop housed in his house on the show at Portmeiron.

[Matt Deckard]

Went down and picked up a couple things at the local outlet... lot half off and I know the manager so I get the extra ;) ;) discount.

I picked up a very victorian style all cotton night shirt with a white band collar and a blue striped body. Tails go down to my calves. Very old school.

i like it... very old school. not I need a matching night cap and a candle stick holder.

[Senator Jack]

Wow, you go the night shirt half-off plus discount? That's a great price. I bought the simple white pyjamas a few months back. They're wearing well so far. I went over there for classic wedge slippers two weeks ago, but I didn't like their selection and the clerk sent me around the corner to Tom Austin's where they had pretty much what I wanted for half the price.

Regards,

Senator Jack

[scotrace]

They have simple white jammies? Wow... maybe worth the drive next week!

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, they're white with blue piping. Bottoms are drawstring. Very comfortable. Of course being the pair I liked, they weren't on sale. 70 bucks, which I guess isn't too bad as I don't believe I ever had to buy a pair of pyjamas before. Seems every year someone gives me a pair for Christmas.

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Matt Deckard]

I bought a couple pairs of pyjamas and planned to sport them around the room in New York... as it turned out I ended up coming in at 6:00am most days and just piling my stuff on the floor and hopping into bed.

I like their old night shirts... they need to sell a night cap so I can go really old school.

[Marc Chevalier]

Yesterday, at a local vintage clothing store, I spotted something I'd never seen before: a 1950s Brooks Brothers suit that had been custom-made for someone. The details of this custom suit were interesting:

-- All silk lining
-- Black silk Brooks Brothers label with red and silver embroidery and lettering
-- Boutonniere loop on the inside of the lapel
-- Working buttonholes on the sleeves
-- Hand-ticked stitching along the lapels and seams

Without question, the best-quality vintage Brooks Brothers suit I've ever come across. Must have cost a pretty penny in its day. Unfortunately, it had some damage, so I left it on the rack.

.

[Matt Deckard]

Fifty years ago they were a good shop.

[Marc Chevalier]

Matt, the next time you're in my neck of the woods, we can make a expedition to the suit. I'm sure it's going to be there for a while ...

[ArrowCollarMan]

The prices from brooks brothers don't impress me. I don't like having to spend $108 for a dress shirt. I could get something that looks almost the same from Kohls or JC Penny for $30! I did really like this shirt though.


http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/343E_enlarged.jpg

[Matt Deckard]

I have that shirt... and I spent about 25 for it at the outlet... apparently it wasn't very popular.

[ArrowCollarMan]

I can see why. Alot of people think that style looks stupid. It seems very reminecent of the days when men had detachable collars.

[Matt Deckard]

Me at the last Renfaire wearing my Brooks Brothers rounded collar shirt.
http://images17.fotki.com/v313/photos/8/83243/3483636/IMG_3219-vi.jpg

[Mr. Rover]

I really like that tie. Is there a story behind it?
I was at the shirtmaker the other day and was debating if I should get a club collar shirt. I think 'll get one when I come back from the states.

And yars, Arrowcollarman, find a Brooks Bros. outlet. They're quite useful, like when you're in need of a cummerbund in my case.

[Matt Deckard]

There is a story behind every article of clothing I wear (some are just more boring than others).

I was working the Vintage Fashion Expo in 2005 (setting things up) and I saw one of the vendors had a deadstock in the box wool tie from the (i think) late 30's. -- I haggled.

[ArrowCollarMan]

Ah, so you were wearing that shirt! I remember that picture, I thought it looked real nice (also liked the suit, is it linen?). And by the way, what'd people think about the getup?

[Vladimir Berkov]

I just picked up one of those brooks club collar shirts at the outlet last week. They indeed had a whole load of them, in three different colors. Unfortunately only one in my size. It is a pity more people don't wear interesting shirts like these though.

[Sefton]

It's a style I like also. It gives a nice 1920s look without having to actually attach the collar. You may not have been in leggings and wearing a codpiece (at least as far as we can tell from the photo!lol ) but you're clothes were just a wee bit closer in age to the renaissance than all of those people wearing jeans and t-shirts!

[Matt Deckard]

Well for reaction to me wearing the linen suit... you should ask Trickeration and Miss Neecerie... I had ladies in renwear stopping to take my pick... I even snubbed the queen apparently when I missunderstood one of her servantts who was calling me over when i thought she was shooing me away.

[Mr. Rover]

I just picked up a pair of linen trousers from Brooks Bros. on Tuesday during a sale. They were originally a size 32, but the in-house tailor is going to take it into a 29" waist. Because of this, the rise goes all the way to my belly button. I get it back on Thurs. so pics then!

[Tomasso]

They were originally a size 32, but the in-house tailor is going to take it into a 29" waist. Because of this, the rise goes all the way to my belly button.

Ray, I don't get it. How does taking in the waist lengthen the rise?

[Mr. Rover]

Sorry about my crappy word choice and sentence structure at 4AM. The rise is quite high for me due to the proportions of a pair of 32" waist pants compared to a 28" waist pair of pants. With the waist taken in, it will fit me and still hit my belly button.

[Baron Kurtz]

Sucks, doesn't it, that many companies now start their lines at 32 waist.

bk

[jamespowers]

Sucks, doesn't it, that many companies now start their lines at 32 waist.

bk

Nope. It works out just fine for the rest of us. :p

Regards,

J

[Matt Deckard]

So I went into the Beverly hills brooks Brothers again today and saw that suit that Me and Hemingway Jones looked at in New York... three piece with a bi-swing and belted back. I don't understand it. it's like they desigend the jacket frome a picture of a vintage one and lowered the belt and gave it no fit. Instead of having pleats under the belt there are darts that go up 10 or more inches... doesn't make sense and doesn
't look good.

[Mr. Rover]

I went to the Manhasset, NY Brooks Bros. store and they told me that they have that suit in for the fall/winter season but don't have it in stock right. Maybe if I have time I'll check out their flagship stores in NYC.

[otterhound]

They were originally a size 32, but the in-house tailor is going to take it into a 29" waist. Doesn't this pull the back pockets together so much that they almost touch?

[Mr. Rover]

We'll See when I get it. The salesman said it looked fine. I don't know if they will alter it from only the back seam or if they'll use the side seams as well.
I may have to ask them to alter the length, too. I remember it being slightly long.

[Matt Deckard]

Fitzgerald suit from Brooks Brothers

It's harking back to the Kennedy fashion accoring to my favorite saleslady at the Camarillo Outlets... I went with Ray to see the actual suits she was telling me about.

I walked into the Beverly Hills store a week ago with my friend Ray. I spoke with several of their salesmen and they love the suit. I like the fact that the armholes have a higher cut and they have jackets with which you can pair their university ties... though unlike the suits that Kennedy wore in the 60's, these ones still have lower armholes than what Brooks was making back then.. I have one, I know. Why can't they just make their off the rack the same as it was then?

My only other gripe is very little waist suppression. The pic below shows it very suppressed. The ones on the racks in the store are more of a tube fit.

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/images/catalog/productimages/enlarged/151K_enlarged.jpg

I do have to say that they are stepping up their quality. I liked what I saw in the way of their higher end suits. Couldn't find one without a boutenere loop under the lapel buttonhole.

The cuts on their three piece suits are looking better as well.

I'm not a fan of their interpretation of the belt back suit or jacket, I think it's looks like it was designed using an old drawing rather than an old pattern, and the armholes are set in in a really really unflattering manner. If they would just grab a vintage one from somewhere and copy the design they would sell like hotcakes, and be more comfortable.

[Mr. Rover]

Well, what we've learned from talking to Brooks Bros. salespeople is that they often don't know all that much...certainly far less than what most of the gents here know.

[carebear]

The only high-armhole garment I've ever worn (to my knowledge) is my Dress Blue blouse. You've all seen them, they're fitted pretty tightly and are a heavy boned fabric.

My question involves freedom of movement. When you wear the tunic and raise your arms even just to shoulder height it pulls up and eventually you just can't lift anymore, neither can you move your arms with easy comfortability to the front or rear. Certainly not all day or while doing any vigorous activity.

How can a daily wear suit have tightish armholes and still let you run, climb, scrap (in an emergency), etc without tearing seams loose?

Am I mistaken in assuming higher armholes would necessarily be tighter?

[Matt Deckard]

higher armholes means less stress on the fabric from you pulling the stitching near the armpit. military fit is closer to what the tailors were doing back in 20's. Less shoulder padding and high armholes. In the 30's the armholes stayed high though the shoulders became bigger. Movement stayed still easier that low armholed garments.

Try it with any jacket and you will notice that there is less stress put on the armholes with jackets that have higher cut armholes. You don't feel constricted or bound. You don't feel like you have to keep your arms at your side.

[carebear]

Okay, tried a jacket on and it makes counterintuitive comfort sense.

Even though the armhole itself has less room for the arm to move around in, the fabric on the bottom of the sleeve is now the actual full length of the arm. The sleeve can move around at the shoulder joint and go anywhere the arm in the sleeve can go. Thus when you lift, you don't get the cantilevered shorter length locking out like a glider wing or having to lift the torso of the garment.

Call me convinced. :eusa_clap

Now tell me why it changed. [huh] Small savings in fabric?

[Matt Deckard]

Has nothing to do with saving fabric I am sure... though take a look at the thread that's a sticky which has to do with details of suits.

[Matt Deckard]

Hat on the front page of their web page.

http://brooksbrothers.com/content/home/images/home-main1-05162007.jpg

[Gary Crumrine]

[QUOTE=I ordered a bow tie from them online about a month ago. I would presume that they will be back up shortly.[/QUOTE]

Mad Hatter, it's very nice finding another man who favors bows. Have you considered Carrot & Gibbs? http://www.greatbows.com/store/contactus.asp

Cordially,
Gary

[Marc Chevalier]

I favor vintage bowties which look great and sell for peanuts on eBay. You can buy dozens there for the price of two new ones.

.

[Jovan]

Thanks for bumping this thread. Found some useful info on Brooks' MTM. :)

[AlanC]

Hat on the front page of their web page.

Looks similar to this Borsalino at Ben Silver (http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefront.asp?root=66&show=139&display=4041):

http://www.bensilver.com/eccstoreimages/ben/product_images/catalogimages/BPH_T.jpg