The find of the year!!! [Archive]

Wild Root

03-16-2005, 08:08 PM

Ok, I'm going to tell you a bit about my day. After I stopped off at the post office, I swung buy the Antique shop on the main drag in town. So, I'm walking though the joint and what I see is just great. A rack of suits from the 30's and 40's! And they're all the same size. The best part is that they're MY SIZE!!! I found two single breasted three piece suits from the 40's, a brown double breasted summer suit from the 40's, and a dark blue single breasted suit from the late 30's. There were some coats that were there that had no pants and also a vest with a matching pair of pants. Wish the matching coat was there! There was a 1927 dated single breasted tux as well. I may go and grab that seeing it's my size. I'll end up owning all the rest of the junk on the rack over the next few weeks.

Any way, I'll post some photos soon as I can. I first need to clean some of the stuff seeing it's "Estate Fresh" if you know what I mean.

Oh and the part that will kill you is the price! I payed only 20 to 25 bucks for them a piece! Yeah, I got four vintage suits in good to ok condition for 100 bucks!

Ok, coments are welcome!

Root.

LadyPowers

03-17-2005, 01:27 AM

Kudos, on your good fortune. Lady Fortune really did smile on you. Usually, clothing for you guys cost a lot more due to scarcity, and demand. Don’t let know JP know where you got those or you might get competition. :rolleyes: It is a good idea to Dry Clean vintage/or N.O.S. items in case of moth larvae (so tiny it could look like lint) or other unmentionable complications. A few months ago, I bought an early 1950s black silk faille matching dress and jacket for $25 but it cost me almost $30 to Dry Clean. Talk about being taken to the cleaners. ;) A total of $55.00 was still a steal. :)

Regards,

Lady Powers

BellyTank

03-17-2005, 02:38 AM

When it rains it pours huh?
Lucky you!
So where are the pictures of you in your (fuzzy) grey hat?
...tapping foot...

BT.

Matt Deckard

03-17-2005, 07:37 AM

Congratulations Root. You need to show me the shop.

Last time I went looking for vintage I found a 1940's broken shoelace.

Lauren

03-17-2005, 09:00 AM

wow! I may be envious... if I wore men's suits in your size. That sounds like the score of a lifetime!

Wild Root

03-17-2005, 09:27 AM

LadyPowers, you are right about the moth thing. I need to have them cleaned to rid the fabric of any larva that is still there. There are two suits that have a few moth issues already. Not too bad and I'm thinking of having them rewoven some time down the road. Cleaning a suit cost me about 8 to 10 bucks for a three piece. Two pieces is about 7. Ladies stuff can cost more because it's not always made of wool.

You can tell JP about the place because the only things in this antique shop are in my size. ;)

I don't find vintage in Antique shops very oft. Mostly ladies items from the 1900's to the 1960's. Some times hats and shoes but not full on suits. It's not a vintage shop. Just a large antique shop.

The girl who was working there I knew was the owner's daughter. Her and her Mom run the place and are getting lots of good stuff from all over Monrovia and other cities. They buy out Estates and then put the good stuff in their shop. They took my name down so they could call me if any more Men's vintage came in. They like me and love the fact that I wear the old stuff. So, they're not some greedy vintage dealers out there. No offence Art, you have high quality suits and vintage so, the price is right for you items. You get what you pay for.

Any way, I know that I have been some what lazy in the photo taking area. It's hard to take photos with out some one to take them. But, I'll try and post some photos of the hats I have gotten soon.

Just hang on friends!

Root.

jamespowers

03-17-2005, 10:54 AM

What?! :eek: You found a bunch of vintage suits? Save me one---belted back---of course. ;)
I swear you are the luckiest guy I know. I am in the same boat as Matt. If I find somehting in a store it would likely fit my cat before it fit me. [huh] :p

Regards to all,

J

Chad Sanborn

03-17-2005, 12:43 PM

What a lucky find. About a year ago, I found an old tux (with tails) coat and it fit me perfect. No pants though. I then found a vintage tux with white coat and the store wouldn't sell it to me. It was for their display only. I offered them lots of money, and they wouldn't take it.
Speaking of shoelaces, I did find a box of vintage waxed laces, both brown and black. Those kinds of laces are very hard to find.

Chad

Wild Root

03-17-2005, 04:23 PM

Chad, the white coat is known as a Dinner Jacket. I'm surprized they wouldn't sell it. Those are not that hard to find! Some people think this vintage stuff is all gone and they just don't know where to look. If you tell me you size I may know of a place that has one or two for only 20 bucks or so. I think that with some black pants would look really cool for you magic shows.

JP, I wish there were some belted backs in the lot! Oh do I wish!!! All the stuff fits me! But, you know there is a brown double breasted suit here that I have that the pants are just a little short. I may be able to sell it to you if you're interested. ;)

I'm going over to clean the rest of them up.

Root.

jamespowers

03-17-2005, 04:31 PM

Brown double breasted with pleated pants and button fly? :)

Regards,

J

zeus36

03-17-2005, 04:46 PM

I wear a 42 Reg.... I'm guessing this place is in Monrovia?

Wild Root

03-17-2005, 07:41 PM

Ummm, one word.... TO LATE! They're all mine now. I whipped through the place after work and cleaned up. All gone!:p They were all about 42 long and 44 long any way.

Sorry, but I had too.

Root.

Cabinetman

03-18-2005, 04:17 AM

You know, Root, you could run a few of those perfectly-sized wonders down to San Diego, oh, say around April 20th or so. Just leave them at the front desk of the Marriott Marina hotel... ;)

Wild Root

03-18-2005, 09:25 AM

You guys wouldn't like these suits. They're not perfect in condition. There are a few moth bites and some things I'll have to have rewoven.

I'm not very picky when it comes to vintage.

I may be posting one of the suits I bought for sale because the waist is too tight and I can't seem button the pants. It's a single breasted summer job. Light brown with a sripe. There are meny moth holes but that could be fixed. I'll post some about it later.

Root.

Chad Sanborn

03-18-2005, 02:04 PM

Wildroot, I am a 42R.
If you find one pick it up and I will pay you for it. It would be great for my show!
Best of all, if I wear it just once in the show, it becomes a tax write off!
Woo hoo!

Chad

Wild Root

03-18-2005, 06:07 PM

PM me all the info I need and I'll try and remember it next time I'm out looking.

Root.

Wild Root

03-23-2005, 12:06 PM

jamespowers

03-23-2005, 05:14 PM

Man, that is a nice find! You definitely hit gold there. Where is my brown one? :p

Regards to all,

J

wackyvorlon

03-29-2005, 07:42 PM

I notice you have a very nice patina on the shoes, as well. Are they vintage?

Wild Root

03-29-2005, 09:37 PM

They are 100% vintage shoes! I believe they're from the 40's. They are a summer shoe with leather and a mesh combo. I love them and they only cost me a buck! Yes, one dollar! Thrift Shops are great some times!

Root.

The Wolf

03-30-2005, 12:08 AM

Tell me the vest with your second suit is not a four-pocket! That is the suit I've been trying to find in 40 regular. I think we are all envious of you.
Those are great suits and you wear them well.
Congratulations on a great find.

Yours truly,
The Wolf

Wild Root

03-30-2005, 12:27 AM

The two three pieces have four pocket vests. Glad you like!

Root.

SHARPETOYS

03-30-2005, 01:58 AM

Here are the first wave of photos for you all!

The first ones are of the striped three piece. One of my faves!

Root.

http://img217.exs.cx/img217/1018/1111148img9mn.jpg

http://img217.exs.cx/img217/6329/1111150img9hc.jpg

Now, the the second three piece.

http://img217.exs.cx/img217/8310/1111154img1zd.jpg

The spot on the pants is just dust on the camera.

http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3050/1111155img7qy.jpg

Now the shot of the best part of these suits! The vest sits over the waist band! The way it should fit!!!
http://img217.exs.cx/img217/4377/1111158img5mv.jpg

I wish my 58 year old body could find a nice Vintage in my size.48R and 34 waist. I guess i will have to go custom copy. Still not the real deal. Like wearing a fake Montecristi or a Paper Biltmore Milan . No one else may know but you do!

I think the suits looks great! :)

BellyTank

03-30-2005, 02:07 AM

There's no harm in that Mr. Sharpe, an excellent copy should be as good as vintage and you have the bonus of choosing colour, fabric and style.
With all those fine hats, you deserve the suit of your dreams.
A modern copy of a vintage style can be made exactly like a vintage one- unlike with hats, as it seems.
Go for it. I can see you in a nice natural linen suit for the Florida climes, or maybe the striped seersucker- with all those Panamas, you owe it to yourself!

BT.

SHARPETOYS

03-30-2005, 02:52 AM

Would you use the Tailor we have been reading about on this Forum ?????

BellyTank

03-30-2005, 03:10 AM

Well, I don't live in the 'States, so I couldn't tell you.
Try finding a local one and see if he/she can do exactly what you want- it would be good to show an example though and get all the details presented up front so's not to be disappointed with the result. I had a so-so experience once with a Tailor in India- he said "yes, yes, yes" and he got it mostly right but the small details were not correct, although he got the cut and proportion spot on.
But then that was India and the suit cost me the equivalent of $30 and I was trying to get it done in 3 days! But next time I go, I'll use a Tailor with better English and offer him more examples to look at. Anything's possible in India, they have the vintage technology!- can do the old style buttonholes and all the vintage detailing- it's all done on old machines and by hand.
It's just a matter of communication and pushing the point.

But, I digress- find a local and see what he can do/has done.
Make a list of the details you MUST have and the fitting, etc.
Get it clear in YOUR mind before you even try to communicate what you want. Take your time with this-
With a 'modern' tailor, you have to force a 'mental shift' in his garment construction because most modern tailors have no real idea of vintage clothing and have a 'template' in mind, on which to build your design- some of these 'design/construction templates' are far removed from the construction of a vintage suit- just compare a modern suit to a vintage one and not the differences in the basic construction-
Someone here can surely point you in the right direction- and you have plenty of vintage resources to hand in the form of photo's of the real thing, or of course, the real thing.
It could be a great experience- commissioning a bespoke suit to your requirements.

Good Luck!

BT.

jamespowers

03-30-2005, 09:43 AM

Sharpe I think there are probably many good tailors in your area. It is just a matter of finding them. Go to your local high end clothing store and ask who they recommend. They might have some on staff but they probably have sources for the really tough and touchy jobs. You might even find on that moonlights a bit. ;)
BT is right about getting a real live example to extrapolate on though. In your case I would do a Palm Beach. That would be the material for where you live and it would be what they wore back then. You have to decide double breasted versus single and a few other things but if you find a vintage suit you like that is too small then there is your template. I could see you in a double breasted Palm Beach with a belted back, spectators or white wing tips and a panama. It would make quite a nice ensemble. :cool2:
The major problem you are going to run into is the material. It is just not the same but you can get close to the Goodall material with today's linens. The weave may not be the same but it will give the same appearance. Ninety percent of the people would not know the difference anyway. ;)

Regards to all,

J

Wild Root

03-30-2005, 07:36 PM

Where I live and other places I have been, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE VINTAGE!!! The fabric is far superior then to that of today. Just ask Matt and he'll agree on this. He has been looking and looking for the good stuff and has come up empty handed on more then one account. They aren't making the heavy stuff any more and it's just hard to find any thing that has the heavy vintage feel. I have been wearing vintage for 10 years and trust me, there is no fabric I have seen today that compares to the lasting wear and beauty of what was made only 60 years ago.

Matt has been to tailors after tailors in Beverly Hills and other very high priced clothing establishments and he is sick of what they make for him. They don't understand the old ways and they don't want to do it old school. It's against their will and their schooling. I have had to tell tailors how I want something and they look at me like I'm from Mars!

Sharpy, do like JP has said, there are good linens out there and you just need to find a good bolt of it and have a nice belted back Palm Beach like suit made. You'll like it a lot!

All the best,

Root.

BellyTank

03-31-2005, 12:51 AM

There are still excellent modern fabrics around, you just have to find them.

BT.

BellyTank

03-31-2005, 03:26 AM

Don't rule out upholstery fabrics!
Resourcefulness, creative and lateral thinking is not only allowed,
it's a must for the modern vintage-wanting person.
Gotta find it where it is-

BT.

wackyvorlon

03-31-2005, 03:48 AM

They aren't making the heavy stuff any more and it's just hard to find any thing that has the heavy vintage feel.

I agree entirely! I visited a local tailor's shop not long ago to check out some Harris tweed. Very disappointing. Here's something a lot of people don't realize about suits: They are not just sewn, they are sculpted. The suit has to be pressed into shape as it's being sewn, and a good tailor always has an iron at the ready. This is also why we hang our suit jackets on wide hangers, a narrow hanger will put a crease in the shoulders. Suits have a very specific shape.

Light fabrics are not nearly as good at maintaining a given shape as heavier fabrics. Also, am I the only one who notices that off-the-rack suits these days don't have vents? The jackets rumple obscenely when you sit down! Very unpleasant.

BellyTank

03-31-2005, 04:10 AM

It seems that most modern suit jackets are made the same way- like a template- gradeable/adaptable for size and fit- and just adding a vintage style collar and lapels and pockets just doesn't make a vintage suit. The jacket needs to be tailored in a vintage style- vintage jacket construction was different and there were so many completely distinct styles from the '20s-'40s which shared virtually nothing in cut and style- this is why it's hard to get a modern 'Tailor' to make something that's embracing vintage style. They didn't learn the older styles. It seems that modern Tailoring style is locked into the '60s and later suit style. The perfect example is to look at a '30s or '40s DB suit jacket and compare it to a modern one- it's all nuance and some 'Tailors' aren't even capable of acknowledging the differences- they just want to take their 'same-old' design and make you something out of it.
Wrong, wrong, wrong!
A GOOD Tailor should be able to make something bespoke using a vintage example as a model- then we're getting somewhere. If the guy truly understands garment construction, he should be able to pull it off.

Look at the differences between vintage and modern dress shirts- the difference is in the fit.

This is a real tough one to get around unless you have an obliging Tailor with real know-how.

BT.

BellyTank

03-31-2005, 04:21 AM

My bro' back in NZ isn't a true vintage nut but he likes to dress sharp and have his threads custom made and appreciates the kind of suit that's not stingy on cloth and a good enough fit to dance in- so- he gravitates toward the '40s-'50s styles.
His Tailor, who has a Gentlemans Outfitter/Tailoring business called
'Strangely Normal' uses vintage fabrics where he can AND any modern fabrics which can hold the garment style and drape correctly- he sources fabrics from all over the world just to get what works. Some of the fabrics are 'modern' and not meant specifically as suiting or shirting cloth but he uses what makes a good set of threads. He was sourcing rayon for summer/hawaiian shirts from God only knows where- but this guy spoecialises in menswear with a timeless style- he's a modern Tailor but not a 'modern Tailor', if you get my drift. He does what it takes to get it right.
There are people, you just have to find them and you might have to find the fabric yourself...
I'll see if I can find some sources for GOOD fabrics.

BT.

wackyvorlon

03-31-2005, 04:25 AM

The perfect example is to look at a '30s or '40s DB suit jacket and compare it to a modern one- it's all nuance and some 'Tailors' aren't even capable of acknowledging the differences- they just want to take their 'same-old' design and make you something out of it.

BT.

In a lot of ways, proper men's tailoring is almost a lost art these days. How many people buy bespoke suits these days? How many people even consider becoming a tailor? You almost have to go to Jermyn St. to find anything at all. I have also noticed a distinct lack of books on the topic(they may be out there, but I haven't found them yet). Hmmph, just going to have to teach myself...

gandydancer

03-31-2005, 07:35 AM

Custom tailoring was a true apprentice learned skill. There is very little written information about it out there. In those wonderful 60's - 70's there was little call for it, and even fewer youngsters who were interested in learning the skill. Skip one generation and trade tricks and secrets are lost forever.

Still, I understand there a few good custom taylors still out there. Finding them, and getting them to accept a new customer is the problem. One place custom tayloring is alive seems unlikely, but if you ever meet a Jesuit Priest notice the fit and materials of his suit.

BTW, made to measure, and custom are not the same thing. Made to measure is modifying a standard pattern to fit you. Custom is designing a suit to fit you. The difference may sound slight, but it is not. The made to measure taylor can not make a suit he does not already have a pattern for.

jamespowers

03-31-2005, 09:32 AM

Don't rule out upholstery fabrics!
Resourcefulness, creative and lateral thinking is not only allowed,
it's a must for the modern vintage-wanting person.
Gotta find it where it is-

Upholstery fabrics!? Hmmm...
I can see it now. "For some reason that suit makes me want to cuddle up on you and go to sleep." :p That and you can have a scotch guarded suit so you have to clean it less. :p

Regards to all,

J

Wild Root

03-31-2005, 05:22 PM

Well, you know it’s not impossible to find fabric that is close to vintage or finding real vintage fabric. But, it seems WAY easier to find an original suit made 60 years ago from some one who has died to fit me then to find the fabric and find a tailor who knows his stuff. Trust me on that! It’s not only easier, it’s cheaper!

Root.

BellyTank

04-01-2005, 12:42 AM

you're right 'Root- but some people fear that their size prohibits finding a 'suitable' vintage item- and the tought of a 'custom' suit is quite appealing.

I was serious with the upholstery fabric angle. Upholstery fabrics are going to be available in a heavier weight than the modern suitings and you can get tweeds and solids and linens- and of course, they're hard wearing. I've seen it done- that's why I mentioned it. If you want this 'weird stuff' then you need to be a little bit resourceful if you want a result.
And that Scotchguard angle is actually quite sensible...

BT.

Matt Deckard

04-01-2005, 02:05 AM

I agree wih the apholstry angle. If it's all wool and dense and hard fabric, what is the difference whether it goes in a car or on your back.

I thought about that a few years back, though never got around to looking for the stuff.

They do make tweeds in England that are hard wearing and of the weights of the old goods, though when it comes to the regular old school pinstripes and whipcords, the lightweight is all you will find. You can find cavalry twill wool, though you have to look at overcoat swatches to find the stuff.

BellyTank

04-01-2005, 02:28 AM

Mr. Deckard, I'm looking for whipcord and so far havenøt found any online...
Do you know a source, web-present or otherwise, where I can source Whipcord and Cav Twill? I would be happy to find these. The Whipcord I'm looking for is like that used in the older Filson jackets and the Day's Ranger work jackets-
wool hopefully.

Thanks for any help you can offer-

BT.

Wild Root

04-02-2005, 07:40 PM

Car upholstery, hahahaha yeah, I’ll have a suit made in 1978 Ford pick-up upholstery or maybe the 1985 Linclon Leather! Yeah, that’s swinging baby!

No, just joking around. I have seen some auto upholstery that is now being made for vintage cars. They have stripes and other patterns that would work for a suit. I think they are made of wool or mohair. Here’s a link to a page that specializes in vintage car upholstery.

Check it out. It would be funny to have the car fitted out with the correct fabric, then order extra and have a suit made of the same stuff! Talk about matching the car!

Root.

http://www.lebaronbonney.com/

BellyTank

04-03-2005, 12:18 AM

I wasn't actually talking about auto-upholstery,
I was meaning the domestic kind.
Auto is a different world of fabrics.

BT.

gandydancer

04-03-2005, 08:52 AM

I wasn't actually talking about auto-upholstery,
I was meaning the domestic kind.
Auto is a different world of fabrics.

BT.

Men's suiting cloth (the good stuff), they do not call it fabric (Read one book and I am an expert, but then as far as I know there were only two books ever published on the subject) is not mass produced. You will not find it in a fabric store. It seems it is sold like fine fabrics have been for thousands of years, through small dealers in cities where there are some number of tailors. Selecting the cloth for your suit is still a major part of the ritual of buying a custom suit. (Why is it I have only heard of it as "bespoke" in the past few years? Come to think of it custom is rather redundant after all they old term for "made especially for you" is "tailor made". I guess we have diluted the term so much in casual conversation that we now have to qualify the real thing.)

You can probably find such a cloth dealer in London, New York, and Hong Kong and other such cities. Whether he would sell to you or not is a question as I would think he is pretty much dependent upon the good will of his regular (tailors) customers.

The book I read (30 years out of print) said there was a place in San Francisco that would sell both cloth and tailer supplies (traditionally a separate dealer) to home tailors. I have no idea if they are still in business. I could find no web reference to them.

I found a book recently in a used bookstore titled "Elegance -- A Guide to Quality in Menswear", by G Bruce Boyer, Published by W. W. Norton 1985. That has a listing of tailers who were still in business at that time. Incidentally, this book has a lot in it that may be of interest to folks on this forum.

BellyTank

04-03-2005, 10:02 AM

So what is fabric called? cloth, suiting, what then?
Oh, I see...
The problem as I see it nowadays is- it's not the finest, most valuable fabric of today that we're looking for, it's something else. I've been all around London- Regent St., Saville Row, Jermyn St. and plenty of other places and it's the same old stuff- relatively lightweight wools and wool blends. Try looking for wool gabardine, same problem- can't find it, or it's very lightweight.
The cloth selling people tend to market what they will sell- the modern light stuff- although I have seen some nice fabrics sold in garment form that I haven't seen for sale as cloth.
I think the term 'bespoke' has been used in England for a long time.

I used to work for a large garment manufacturer- I was head of the fabric division. The head cutter trained as a Tailor with YSL and it was obvious that even he new little about old days Tailoring- had no idea about anything older than the '70s- he was in training in the early '70s. That's where his knowledge begins and ends. Remember the unfortunate truth, there are many 'tradesmen', of all kinds who have little or no interest in what they do and some tailors don't get excited when you start talking to them about clothes, they just have a job...
The kind of Tailor we need is a super-rare beast. Probably not a Tailor at all- more of a vintage clothing expert, who's also good at sewing. Now that's it dammit!

BT.

gandydancer

04-03-2005, 11:04 AM

Very true BT. Many years back I got into an argument with guy whose ulitimate answer was, "You can not tell me anything about this, I've been in the business 20 years".

To which, with strange insight for a 20 year old, I replied, "Yes, and you learned everything you know the first two weeks on the job."

I try to keep that bit of wisdom in mind, but sometimes slip. It really is the old "The world did not exist before I was born" syndrome. This forum is a nice place to get away from that.

You may be correct about the heavier materials. Not much call for those in the climate controlled world of today, so they are probably not even made. However, a lot of the best quality cloth is still pretty much hand woven and I guess a bolt or two could be had if you showed up with money in hand and a willingness to wait.

BTW: An english tailor was quoted when asked how did he make those suits drape so nicely, "You have to use a good wool cloth of at least 14 ounce."

BTW-2: Not for you BT, but for those who have no idea, hand woven suit cloth is still 27 inchs, so that 14 ounce stuff he is talking about would be at least 28 ounce in machine made cloth. Rather heavy, indeed, and another hint why that 8 ounce suit you just bought is so flimsy.

Flitcraft

04-03-2005, 02:17 PM

Just my 2 cents' worth from a newbie:

In regards to GandyDancer's comments above:
Mr. Boyer's book is an excellent reference. And yes, cloth for mens suits is much lighter these days, particularly in off-the rack suits.
Some of my 25+ year old suits are easily twice as heavy as the offerings from Messrs. Armani, Gucci, etc.

There is a 'modern' tailor with an interest in Golden Age Tailoring (Tailoring with a capital 'T'): Alan Flusser. He specializes in a modern interpretation of the English Drape suit. His work is pretty expensive. He tailored Michael Douglas' suits for the film Wall Street.

Ironically, when Terence Stamp saw how good Michael Douglas looked, he scrapped his plan to wear his Saville Row suits and ordered new ones from Flusser. That should give you some idea of where Saville Row is in the grand scheme of things these days.

Flusser has written several books, but he doesn't really give away his sources for cloth. I know when I went to his shop, most of the cloth I looked at was relatively light, and to be quite honest, I didn't think to ask where he got it.

I think GandyDancer and BellyTank are both correct: the art of tailoring is fast dying out, and the market is driven by demand for lighter weight fabric made into rather non-descript suits.

One source of heavier weight suiting fabric might be older tailors in larger cities. New York comes to mind because it seems to have everything, if you can just find it.

Wild Root

04-03-2005, 02:39 PM

BT no offence, but lighten up man! Have a sense of humor. I was joking around. Geez!

If you didn’t look at the link, then you’ll never know that some auto fabric designed for vintage autos from the 30’s and 40’s could be used as a suitable vintage substitute.

When one says upholstery, the door is open to all types.

Root.

PS. These are samples of original fabric for all Plymouth P-15 Models from 1946 to 1949. I think some of these could make a nice suit! Wouldn't you agree?

http://img58.exs.cx/img58/7061/allfabric21zz.gif

BellyTank

04-03-2005, 02:48 PM

What did I say?

BT.

Wild Root

04-03-2005, 03:43 PM

Well, the way I read it was that my joke to the 70's ford upholstery was taken seriously. I'm used to joking around with my friends about stuff some times. I'm sorry if you didn't get the joke.

But, I don't know if it's just me, but some times it feels you come off a little condescending. I have no quarrel with you BT; just smile once in a wile like this :) when something silly is said.

Its ok,

Root.

PS. This is for you BT, I think you might like this photo of Bogie.
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/4339/pwgalbogie6xg.jpg