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YETI
05-31-2008, 02:43 PM
I dare not say "date" a hat. ;) I used to own this vintage fedora, but was not familiar with the brand. Any experts here know of its history?http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12236.jpg?http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12237.jpg?t=1212269263t=1212268664

YETI
05-31-2008, 02:45 PM
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12238.jpg?t=1212269530

YETI
05-31-2008, 02:47 PM
side shothttp://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12237.jpg?t=1212269706

Dinerman
05-31-2008, 02:50 PM
Here you go-

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12236.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12237.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12238.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12239.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12240.jpg

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12235.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll56/gabardine49/Nov12241.jpg

Dinerman
05-31-2008, 02:52 PM
I'm going to go with late '30s, possibly early '40s on it. Anybody else want to throw a date in the ring?

YETI
05-31-2008, 03:01 PM
Thanks Dinerman. I'm no luddite. But I really hate computers :rage:

YETI
05-31-2008, 03:15 PM
You're probably accurate DM. I was wondering why the size would be stamped instead of a paper/cloth tab sewn to indicate hat size(the same as when Levi's painted the stitchwork on the back pockets of their jeans at that time). It was a quality hat comparable to my vintage Borsalinos. So I was confused as why such a nice hat would have the size stamped behind the sweatband.

Dinerman
05-31-2008, 03:20 PM
it probably had a size tag originally as well. most hats were stamped on the sweatband in addition, so that when they were put together, they could match the proper sweatband with the hat. A lot also have the size written in chalk on the inside of the felt.

Baron Kurtz
05-31-2008, 04:42 PM
Impossible to date it. All is speculation. The style is so generic across the decades that it could be from any time, really. The smooth-texture sweatband in orange-y leather might speak to a date slightly more recent than Dinerman's predction. Probably no later than the middle 60s based on predictable style features.

I will say that the liner typography speaks to a relatively early date - maybe 30s. But that doesn't help us much as many stores retained these features for generations.

bk

YETI
05-31-2008, 04:56 PM
I googled it and Robert Atkins was a San Francisco clothier from the 1930s. He later merged with Roos Bros. changing the business to Roos Atkins in the late 50s. So judging from the style of the fedora, Dinerman was on point. Funny thing is I used to own a few 1940s - early 50s Roos Bros. vintage items.

MAB1
05-31-2008, 06:33 PM
I thought that the wide bound edge was more 40's and 50's. I'm learning something new 24/7/

Beautiful hat btw.

Markus

barrowjh
05-31-2008, 07:46 PM
I would say no later than early 50's, most likely late 40's. Can anyone pinpoint when the plastic crown-liner (kept rain out, brylcreme in) became a standard? This hat appears to reflect very high quality construction, but does not have that feature (plastic in the crown), so it would maybe pre-date that time. Does anyone know - would that plastic buffer have been an optional item?

johnnyphi
05-31-2008, 08:25 PM
This hat looks to have a reeded sweatband. I thought those were introduced in the 40's. Am I wrong?

feltfan
05-31-2008, 11:35 PM
It appears to be benchmade by a local, small time hat maker.
Not a big one, since I live in the area and have never seen a
hat under that name. This makes dating more difficult, since
smaller hat makers would make hats in older styles (based on
my Andrew Gross of Oakland and Quality Hat Works of SF hats,
to say nothing of Art).

I am guessing 50s, just based on the slightly lower-appearing
crown and more importantly the poor printing on the label. The
Robert S. Atkins logo on the sweat is weak, like in newer hats
(note the completely different logo on the older-looking liner).
"Park Avenue" is embossed in an older style. But the logo
could be as late as the 70s, to my eye.

Check out the gold printing on leather on older hats.
Its one of the better ways to date a hat sometimes. Just a guess.

I can guarantee you it is pre-1957:
"Roos/Atkins was the name of a chain of upscale men's clothing stores based in San Francisco, California. It was formed through a 1957 merger of the Robert Atkins and Roos Brothers clothiers. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roos/Atkins

A very nice hat, BTW, and I'd be glad to accept it by mail for
further examination...

YETI
06-01-2008, 02:52 PM
This hat looks to have a reeded sweatband. I thought those were introduced in the 40's. Am I wrong?
Is that the strip of piping that separates the sweat from the felt?

Dinerman
06-01-2008, 02:57 PM
Yes, that's the strip that separates the sweatband from the felt. Some hats, especially older ones, had the sweatband stitched directly to the felt.

Off the top of my head, I have a '20s stetson derby and a '20s marshall field's furry early fedora (kind of- not quite a fedora, not quite a homburg) with reeded sweats.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j164/dinerman/IMG_2755.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_4512.jpg

YETI
06-01-2008, 03:48 PM
It appears to be benchmade by a local, small time hat maker.
Not a big one, since I live in the area and have never seen a
hat under that name. This makes dating more difficult, since
smaller hat makers would make hats in older styles (based on
my Andrew Gross of Oakland and Quality Hat Works of SF hats,
to say nothing of Art).

I am guessing 50s, just based on the slightly lower-appearing
crown and more importantly the poor printing on the label. The
Robert S. Atkins logo on the sweat is weak, like in newer hats
(note the completely different logo on the older-looking liner).
"Park Avenue" is embossed in an older style. But the logo
could be as late as the 70s, to my eye.

Check out the gold printing on leather on older hats.
Its one of the better ways to date a hat sometimes. Just a guess.

I can guarantee you it is pre-1957:
"Roos/Atkins was the name of a chain of upscale men's clothing stores based in San Francisco, California. It was formed through a 1957 merger of the Robert Atkins and Roos Brothers clothiers. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roos/Atkins

A very nice hat, BTW, and I'd be glad to accept it by mail for
further examination...
I'd deliver it myself. But some lucky gent won it at auction from that site I'm afraid to mention. The pics don't do it justice, btw. It's more of a midnight blue than black. Given a proper cleaning and it's primo.

YETI
06-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Wasn't midnight blue a common color in tuxedos from the late 40s early 50s?