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Lumelux
09-23-2008, 05:31 PM
Hi everyone,

Is there a way to fix/minimize a moth nibble? It's more like a small indentation in the felt. Can it be brushed to lift the nap or steamed?

mp

carter
09-23-2008, 06:35 PM
I believe Fletch mentioned that he knew of a fix in another thread.

Maj.Nick Danger
09-23-2008, 06:38 PM
CAREFULLY scrape a bit of felt fibers from inside the hat in an inconspicuous area such as under the sweatband. Then mix with an inert glue that would not be glossy or darken when dry to make a sort of filler material,.. a sort of spackeling if you will . Not sure exactly what that would be, just my idea,...maybe one of the expert hatters here can better advise? [huh]

tonyb
09-23-2008, 07:22 PM
Unless the hat's a real beater, a hat which you wouldn't get angry with yourself over should you make the damage even worse, I'd suggest you just live with the moth damage.

But ...

If the divot is shallow, you may be able to make it less conspicuous by sanding the felt. Keep in mind that the area where you sanded may turn a different color (likelier a lighter one) than the surrounding felt. So you may wind up sanding the entire body. Should you try this method, work in a counter-clockwise direction.

An emery board may work as well. I was pleasantly surprised to discover what an effective tool it made for taking out some abrasion damage I had done (don't ask) to a hat of mine.

Deep divots, or outright holes in the felt, may be "repaired" through the judicious use of a needle. (There are indeed needles made for felting. I learned this when I took my wife to a gathering of women who were turning wool yarn into felt. A light went on, you know.) You have to work the felt surrounding the hole with the needle, to loosen up the fibers some, and then work the material into the hole. Moisture (saliva is probably the handiest source) can be introduced to aid in "refelting" the material.

Lumelux
09-23-2008, 08:04 PM
The divot is shallow and on the underside of the brim so it's not a huge issue. I'm sure I'm the only one who knows its there but if it's fixable I'd be happier. Thanks for all your help.

mp

HarpPlayerGene
09-23-2008, 08:26 PM
Yeah, for that, sanding a little to try to even out the surface some and then brushing (counterclockwise, when looking down on hat) will probably be the best, safest solution.

I have repaired deep divots and actual holes with a glue method. I use sand paper - 150 grit, I think - to scuff up some fluffy felt from under the back brim or inside the crown.

Then, on a piece of paper, I spray a spritz of Super 77 - available at art stores and some office supplies. Then, quickly before it tacks up, I get some of the adhesive on a sharp toothpick and dot it into the damaged area. This is an almost invisible amount of glue I'm applying and I totally avoid getting any on the undamaged surface.

Then I pinch some fluff and begin to smush it into the divot. When it's a hole, I have to do this process a few times and from both sides. It's important to sort of massage the felt material in so it knits up a little and gets flat. It's better to do this in degrees, in steps, than to try to gob a bunch of glue and felt in too fast. Very delicate procedure.

One time, for an area about the size of a peanut that was thin and had a hole in the center, I actually made a stencil out of a Post-It and covered the rest of the hat so I could lightly spray the adhesive directly onto the area I needed to build back up.

I have saved the look of about six hats - two of them with holes right through. Only when the hat gets wet do you see the difference in the nature of the felt in those areas. HOWEVER, I'm sure it's possible to make a gooey mess so try this at your hat's own risk.

Maj.Nick Danger
09-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Yeah, for that, sanding a little to try to even out the surface some and then brushing (counterclockwise, when looking down on hat) will probably be the best, safest solution.

I have repaired deep divots and actual holes with a glue method. I use sand paper - 150 grit, I think - to scuff up some fluffy felt from under the back brim or inside the crown.

Then, on a piece of paper, I spray a spritz of Super 77 - available at art stores and some office supplies. Then, quickly before it tacks up, I get some of the adhesive on a sharp toothpick and dot it into the damaged area. This is an almost invisible amount of glue I'm applying and I totally avoid getting any on the undamaged surface.

Then I pinch some fluff and begin to smush it into the divot. When it's a hole, I have to do this process a few times and from both sides. It's important to sort of massage the felt material in so it knits up a little and gets flat. It's better to do this in degrees, in steps, than to try to gob a bunch of glue and felt in too fast. Very delicate procedure.

One time, for an area about the size of a peanut that was thin and had a hole in the center, I actually made a stencil out of a Post-It and covered the rest of the hat so I could lightly spray the adhesive directly onto the area I needed to build back up.

I have saved the look of about six hats - two of them with holes right through. Only when the hat gets wet do you see the difference in the nature of the felt in those areas. HOWEVER, I'm sure it's possible to make a gooey mess so try this at your hat's own risk.
This is basically the procedure I was alluding to,...thanks Gene for elaborating on that idea so well. :)

tonyb
09-23-2008, 10:41 PM
Wow, Gene, that's quite the method you've come up with.

Getting the felt from another part of the hat body (the inside of the crown, say) is certainly feasible, as anyone who has pounced (sanded) a new hat body can attest. Even a very light sanding ought to raise more than enough fuzz.

Perhaps someone can come up with a way of getting those transplanted fibers to securely and permanently knit themselves to the fibers in the area of the body needing repair. Sanding the felt, or loosening it with a needle, is essentially "unfelting" a small amount of the fiber. What's needed is a technique to "refelt."

The critter hair used to make new hat bodies is blown into cones and wetted. The still quite fragile felt resulting from that initial felting process is made thicker and stronger through the application of water and pressure (the cone-shaped bodies are run through rollers). So, it seems to me that we could come up with a way to replicate that process on a spot repair.

mineral
09-23-2008, 11:40 PM
The divot is shallow and on the underside of the brim so it's not a huge issue. I'm sure I'm the only one who knows its there but if it's fixable I'd be happier. Thanks for all your help.

mp

I absolutely second the sanding method. I had a hat with some very conspicuous divots and have tried both sanding and the glue/needle method. I have found the sanding to be much easier to do, although your mileage might vary.

For reference, I use a Chinese calligraphic inkstone for the sanding, which has worked wonders. I also find that using a hard toothbrush to go over the area after the sanding helps. (This was adapted from a proposal by some forum member for another issue.)

Good luck!

HarpPlayerGene
09-24-2008, 01:57 PM
Felt is cool.

I just wish moths weren't wise to that.

Maj.Nick Danger
09-24-2008, 06:05 PM
Really,..it doesn't taste very good. Would be better if they just ate grass or something.:rolleyes:

johnnyphi
09-24-2008, 06:40 PM
As pointed out to me in another thread by BK... Moths do not eat the felt. The damage is caused by moth larvae munching on "food" that is attached to the felt. I've actually found these little buggers lying dead on some of my hats. (My 4th Grade Science class taught me that the live larvae must have survived to become moths, and I haven't experienced a "Seinfeld" moment with live moths.)

Soo... moth larvae are the common enemy!


Really,..it doesn't taste very good. Would be better if they just ate grass or something.:rolleyes:

Lumelux
09-25-2008, 05:53 PM
I guess there's something to be said for keeping ones hat free of old food and stains. Seems sanding is the prefered method but what about scraping some fibers with a sharp knife? Before I try anything, I'll buy a cheap hat to practice on. Thanks again. Once I get settled in a new house, I'll have to post some photos of the hats I've bought recently. :)

mike

Mr. Paladin
04-08-2009, 06:24 PM
Ok all you great DIY guys out there-not to mention those who are classy vendors as well; I have a question. I am working on repairing the three moth (larvae) bites in my e-Bay Open Road. I have spent several hour picking at the pits gently with a sharp pin as was suggested in several other threads. While I am not yet quite through with this process, I am wondering....when I am satisfied with the cover-up, and after brushing the holes gently to fill and match the felt grain, should I give each area a spray with Kahl's felt stiffener to set the looser picked felt? Being a stiff western body anyway, it will not affect the flexiblility of the rest of the hat and it might help to keep it as neat as it is. On the con side, will the stiffener spray set the slightly different color of the cleaner and less oxidized felt so that it does not ever blend as well as it could? What say you?

I will post pictures of it on this thread whenever I finish completely and get a consensus on the spray.

RBH
04-08-2009, 07:04 PM
I dont think it would hurt.
I have sprayed the rain and stain on a few of mine after I have 'worked' them over... all to no ill effect.
I have used the stiffner on more than a couple hats and have had no color change,
I would try it on the smallest of the 'bites' first. Give it a little time and see how it turns out.

A big :eusa_clap to you for trying this!

HarpPlayerGene
04-08-2009, 10:50 PM
Hey, Mr. P.

This is about the divots under the brim of your new Silverbelly OR style, right? I have repaired a lot of these on my hats - even fixed a complete hole right through the brims of two different fedoras. My method works best on mid-tone hats (medium brown, grey, taupe). Light hats may well show a darker place where you have added felt in the divots.

Here's what I do:

1) I get a small can of Super77 (3M spray adhesive available at hardware and office supply stores).

2) I use 150 grit sandpaper to scuff up some fluffy 'donor' felt from under the brim somewhere. You need quite a good amount of fluff as it smushes back down to nothing in the next steps.

3) I spray a quick spurt of the adhesive at close range on a piece of paper or an old file folder so it makes a little puddle. Careful, this stuff comes out in a blast and overspray is very tacky. Keep the hat away while getting the adhesive glob on the paper.

4) With toothpicks at the ready, I dab into the sticky glue (note, it is already drying so you don't have long to get some of it on the toothpick) and then dot the glue into the divot on the hat.

5) With the glue now applied to the entire divot area, I take a pinch of the graft felt and begin working it into the divot. I press it in, and I circle my finger around a little and I press again. I'm trying to get it to stick to the adhesive AND to felt up with itself. Any oils or dirt from your finger, or too much adhesive used at a time will darken the felt you apply to the damaged area.

6) I repeat steps 3 through 5 as needed to fill the area to level with the rest of the hat surface. Note, I am not trying to make the donor felt soak up that miniscule amount of glue I apply each time - just attach to it so on the surface all you see is dry felt.

Once you've gotten enough felt to stick and fill in the area, brush it lightly.

This sounds tricky - and it is. Best I can do to explain it. It takes a touch, but you start to instinctively feel what you're doing only by doing it. I have done this process on some hats and it is next to impossible to see where the problems originally were. I have done it on others and it did improve the damage but it did not perfectly restore it.

Using needles to pick or manipulate the felt, and/or using spray stiffener are not methods I've employed. Nothing against those ideas, I've just gotten good at really making solid repairs to moth nibbles by actually adding felt back into them.

G'LUCK!

The Elizans
04-09-2009, 12:55 AM
I'm going to quote myself from a different thread here; this is my method, all I can say is that I have successfully made moth craters invisible with this method- over to your discretion...


Ok, I do not want to be held responsible for any over jealous approach to the technique I am going to share with you now- proceed with caution!

This will not fix a moth hole that is completely of nearly through the felt completely.

First, steam the hat well and brush hard with a hat brush. This will round the edges of the crater making it look less severe.

If you want to reduce the appearance of the crater even more or remove it altogether [carefully] take a Stanley knife blade and ‘shave’ the felt gently about half inch radius around the crater, reducing the felt around the crater gradually until it is level with the base of the crater or as low as you would dare go. You will find on most hat colours, this shaved area will appear lighter; this is the ‘true’ colour of the felt when your hat was new! Fading and dirt will change the colour of the hat body over time. Trust me, steaming, brushing, handling and wearing for a month in normal conditions will balance the ‘fresh’ colour and it will dull almost to the point of becoming un-noticeable. I have done this many times- it really can add a new lease of life to moth eaten relics. Beware- do not shave too thin! Stop regularly and pinch the affected area between your fingers to ensure you are not in danger of going through. DO NOT try to cut a sliver of felt off the hat; instead shave the ‘hairs’ gently. I have taken hours to do one small area- patience is a virtue and will be rewarded!

Mr. Paladin
04-10-2009, 06:11 AM
I am now just waiting for the stiffener to dry, then I'll get some pics posted with an explanation of what I did. I am really pleased with the outcome and appreciate all the great advice!

Mr. Paladin
04-10-2009, 03:28 PM
Here is a pictoral explanation of how I tried to repair the moth bites in an otherwise beautiful vintale western Open Road hat. This is the damage befoe I began:

Front
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/WearingnewOR005.jpg

Rear
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/WearingnewOR006.jpg

I had already begun to pick the holes with a pin, following advice earlier from another thread, so I decided to combine the advice from the gentlemen who responded above and see what I could do to make the repair as well as I could. I used these items--a very sharp cork board pin, an emory board (fine side), my hat brush for light colored hats, and Kahl's hat stiffener for adhesive/sealer.

http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/HatRepair008.jpg

I used the fine side of the emry board to gently scrape up a large amount of felt from the area underneath the sweatband inside the hat. Gene was very right and it required a LOT more than I had thought.

http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/HatRepair005.jpg

Next, I used the pin and the bottom of a spoon to work bits of the felt into the bite pits which had been loosened and gently lifted previously with the pin. I assisted in compacting it and working it together with a very small amount of stiffener applied to the pit with a toothpick (I did not have any of the recommended adhesive and thought I would try this and see how well it held up. I hoped that would help bond the bits to the loosened felt already in the pit. I repeated the process until the pits were about as full as I could get then and keep the felt bits adhering. After giving it overnight to dry, I lightly brushed the areas with my light brush and then sprayed all three areas with the stiffener again. After drying overnight again, here is the result.

Front hole repair-camera shot taken on micro setting.
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/HatRepair004.jpg

Rear two hole repair-camera shot taken on micro setting.
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/HatRepair009.jpg

Overview shot at about two feet distance for actual repair effect.
http://i445.photobucket.com/albums/qq178/MrPaladin_photos/HatRepair010.jpg

While still somewhat noticable up close, the damage is much less obvious, particularly the front hole, which was the largest. It came out best because I did it last, practicing on the two in the rear first. I am pleased with the result and now wear the hat without the initial irritation I had regarding the unsightly pits. Thanks again to all who helped with suggestions. I really appreciate you all helping me resuscitate this hat!

Inusuit
04-10-2009, 03:48 PM
I have a nice 3X beaver Stetson with some nibbles. Your good work makes me tempted to try this on my hat. To this point, I've just ignored the issue. Thanks for sharing your procedure and the great pictures.

HarpPlayerGene
04-10-2009, 10:32 PM
That is GRRRRRREAT, Mr. P. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

If you can avoid using the adhesive, by all means do so - and you developed a very smart method here.

Thank you so much for posting the pix and explanation. I always kicked myself for not thinking to document how I did some of my repairs...

Mr. Paladin
04-11-2009, 08:04 AM
Thanks guys!

Gene, I would have used it if I had any but I didn't want to go out at 0100 when I was working on it. I hoped that the shellac in the stiffener would act somewhat like an adhesive but I don't know how durable it will be. I may have to re-do it with your adhesive suggestion in time if it begins to lose the filling. Thanks for the help.

J.T.Marcus
04-11-2009, 11:16 AM
Mr. Paladin, I love do-it-yourself suggestions, and yours is one of the best I've ever seen! Thanks for sharing it with us. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

RBH
04-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Great job Mr P! looks super! :eusa_clap

RHY
04-26-2009, 08:32 PM
I purchased a Stetson with some moderate moth divots and track on the under side of the brim. The seller said that it may be sanded down with an extra fine sandpaper to smooth out the felt. This is the first time I heard of this solution.

Any comments on this solution and are there any other suggested solutions to this problem?

RHY

Lefty
04-26-2009, 08:54 PM
search "moth" in thread titles only, in the hats forum, and viola! (http://thefedoralounge.com/search.php?searchid=1501965)

ScottF
04-26-2009, 08:57 PM
I purchased a Stetson with some moderate moth divots and track on the under side of the brim. The seller said that it may be sanded down with an extra fine sandpaper to smooth out the felt. This is the first time I heard of this solution.

Any comments on this solution and are there any other suggested solutions to this problem?

RHY

After reading through Lefty's 'link page', I've respectfully deleted the details of my unworthy effort! I will be going back over it with Harplayergene's technique.

Thanks for posting this, Lefty...I need to learn how to search better.

Mr. Paladin
04-27-2009, 10:05 AM
I got this advice from Gene, Elizans, and RBH and modified it as noted. It has held up well for me so far.

EDIT by BARTENDER - both threads were merged. Thank you!

carter
04-28-2009, 03:04 PM
Nice repair job, Mr. P! Thanks for posting pictures of the process.

Jabos
06-09-2009, 06:25 AM
Mr. P-How is the repair holding up? Has the felt remained "stuck" in the hole? I have a new Ebay Dobbs with one big big hole. I'm a little scared to try HarpPlayerGene's method-I'm afraid of doing something stupid, like let a drop of glue land somewhere else on the hat!

I need to get the hat cleaned. Gene, or Mr. P-do you think a cleaning at Optimo would affect the moth repair? Perhaps I should get it cleaned first, then do the repair.

One other question-Gene, Have you experimented with other types of glue? I'm just curious why you use the spray glue. I would assume that if you used a glue that was too "soupy" it would seep through the felt and show on the backside (I'll bet liquid "Super Glue" would be a disaster:eek:) My moth hole is almost through the felt, so I am worried about "seepage". Isn't there another type of glue that might not set up so fast-or is that the reason you choose this type?

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 06:46 AM
Perhaps I should get it cleaned first, then do the repair.

One other question-Gene,...I'm just curious why you use the spray glue. My moth hole is almost through the felt, so I am worried about "seepage"... is that the reason you choose this type?


Hey Jabos,

First, I do think you should have Optimo refurbish the hat prior to repairs. Also, while you're at it see what Graham says about repairs. Mine is an amateur's approach but it has worked for me.

Yes the reason I use the Super77 in this manner is because it is so thick, almost dry as soon as you spray a blob onto the paper, so there is no way it will seep anywhere you do not intentionally place it with the toothpick. I have repaired holes all the way through the felt by going in layers and working from one side and then the other until the grafted in felt fluff is level with the rest of the finish.

The color of the hat can have a lot to do with the visual end result. On medium to dark hats, it is most effective. On light hats, the grafted in part with (albeit the tiniest amount of) adhesive imbued into it may show as darker than the rest of the hat.

The whole thing is somewhat of a gamble and I got used to the process by working on real beaters first.

If there is any way to permanently fix a divot or hole without using adhesive, that would be preferable.

Post a pic. If the hat's dark enough, I'd be happy to work on it for you. Send it for cleaning first, then send it to me. PM me for address when you're ready, if you like.

Otherwise. g'luck!

Mr. Paladin
06-09-2009, 06:54 AM
Mr. P-How is the repair holding up? Has the felt remained "stuck" in the hole?

I need to get the hat cleaned. Gene, or Mr. P-do you think a cleaning at Optimo would affect the moth repair? Perhaps I should get it cleaned first, then do the repair.

Jabos, the repair job is holding up well for me. I have worn the OR I repaired quite often and am still doing so in the heat of spring/summer here in Texas. I have not had any sign of the stiffener that I used to fix the felt in place, loosening its grip. I would absolutely not risk my repair to have the hat cleaned. Gene's system is much more stable for the rigors of that I would think. If you use the pack/stiffener/pack method, I would definitely have the hat cleaned first.

Good luck and be patient when you start. Gene was absolutely right when he said it takes a lot more scraped felt than you think. If packed tightly and properly, it really does!!!

Let us know how it comes out.

zetwal
06-09-2009, 07:39 AM
You can cover/repair moth damage and holes as you say. And the methods described here are quite ingenious. Thanks for sharing them with us all.

But how desirable are such repairs really? The cover up notwithstanding, hasn't the integrity of the felt structure still been compromised?

Repairs of this sort bring to mind automobile Bondo repairs. You can apply the proper product, sand the area, and repaint. But at the end of the day wouldn't we all prefer to buy and own a car that has never been wrecked (no matter how good the cover up may appear at a glance)?

I don't want to sound overly critical. Obviously such repairs can be both practical and entirely appropriate. But I would hope that buyers are told in advance when repairs of this sort have been made on a hat. This would be doubly important where a sale is made without the buyer having the opportunity to examine the hat closely.

Jabos
06-09-2009, 07:56 AM
Thanks Mr. P on the update and advice. Thank you Gene for your expertise on the topic. I will send it to Optimo for cleaning first and I will ask if they do any moth repairs. I don't have that many hats and no beaters to practice on, so I might just take you up on the repair Gene. In fact, I was going to approach you about possibly doing the work for me, but you are such a nice guy that all it took was a little tease and you of course volunteered as I expected. If I did take you up on it, I would pay you for your effort. You should go into business-"HarpPlayerGene's Magical Moth Repairs".

Zetwal-I wouldn't think the integrity would be so compromised for small moth nips that it would be unwearable. I think it is all cosmetic. Obviously if I could have a hat moth free it would be better. However, my little project is an example of how I found a great vintage hat with a minor defect. I'd rather have the hat with the defect than no hat. That type of hat might never come back up on Ebay again. That is just like I would rather have a '69 Z-28 with a dent in the right rear fender repaired with bondo than no '69 Z-28. [huh] I think all Ebayers should ask about moth damage before purchase if it is not made clear by the seller.

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 08:02 AM
-"HarpPlayerGene's Magical Moth Repairs".



...and Snake Oil Sales... :D

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 08:04 AM
...wouldn't we all prefer to buy and own a car that has never been wrecked (no matter how good the cover up may appear at a glance)?



You bet we would. Sometimes life just contains these imperfections and sometimes people attempt to patch 'em up. Not ideal, just ideas. :)

zetwal
06-09-2009, 08:06 AM
...and Snake Oil Sales... :D

Hey Gene, what happened to the previous avatar with the new uncreased MCO? I liked that one because SO amusing!

Jabos
06-09-2009, 08:08 AM
Hey Gene, what happened to the previous avatar with the new uncreased MCO? I liked that one because SO amusing!
Agreed Gene. That is THE BEST avatar.

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 08:36 AM
lol lol lol

The new avatar is the SAME hat. Just showing it as it progresses...

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 08:37 AM
OK, so what's an "MCO"?

zetwal
06-09-2009, 08:53 AM
OK, so what's an "MCO"?

I wasn't trying to be coy or mysterious. I thought you'd know that I meant to say - Monte Cristi Optimo -

Inusuit
06-09-2009, 08:55 AM
Repairs of this sort bring to mind automobile Bondo repairs. You can apply the proper product, sand the area, and repaint. But at the end of the day wouldn't we all prefer to buy and own a car that has never been wrecked (no matter how good the cover up may appear at a glance)?

Life is not perfect, and we can't always get what we want. Of course I would prefer a pristine vintage hat with no moth bites and a supple sweatband in my exact size. But a part of what I enjoy about owning and wearing hats is the tinkering with creases, brims, ribbons, and sweats. Felt is almost a living fabric that responds to weather, wear, and care.

I agree that it would be unethical to sell a hat without revealing ALL the repairs or adjustments.

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 09:09 AM
I wasn't trying to be coy or mysterious. I thought you'd know that I meant to say - Monte Cristi Optimo -

Gotcha'! Just couldn't work that one out. Anyway, the pix we're discussing are of a more recent acquisition: A parabuntal. :)

Sorry for all the :offtopic: everybody. Back to regular programming...

Jabos
06-09-2009, 09:54 AM
I called Optimo and they advised they don't do any moth repair type work. So, Gene, it looks like you could have the only business in the world that would specialize in moth repair work! See, I'm setting you up to become a millionaire. No doubt your specialty shop could become a Fortune 500 company someday (but I think you would have to sell a LOT of snake oil on the side to get there!).

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 10:10 AM
So, Gene, it looks like you could have the only business in the world that would specialize in moth repair work!

I suppose, but it seems I'd have some pretty stiff (stiff, get it!?) competition from Mr. Paladin. His process is proving very effective as well.

I'll PM you my address, but I do not want to charge or consider this a professional thing. I do, however, like that image you conjured up of me on the cover of Forbes... :rolleyes:

Mr. Paladin
06-09-2009, 02:55 PM
lol lol lol I am afraid I am but a piker when it comes to doing anything with hats. Gene, you will not have to share the Forbes cover with me, but I would be happy to have you autograph my copy when it comes out!

Zetwal, I understand your concern over the repair issue and e-Bay sales, but if you read the thread I started, I made the repairs because my "pristine" OR came with three little presents which I had not anticipated. Since I had the hat and I liked the hat, I wanted it to look as nice as possible and I am not of the school that thinks stains, divots, etc. add character to a hat unless its a beater. I, therefore wanted my OR to look as close to whole as possible so I tried the fix. I have never sold a hat because I have all mine to wear; I'm really not a collector. I can assure you I would never sell one that has been repaired without letting the buyer know. Hopefully I will have worn it out before I "exit stage left" but if not, [huh] ...I guess it will be estate sale time and caveat emptor!

zetwal
06-09-2009, 03:38 PM
I made the repairs because my "pristine" OR came with three little presents which I had not anticipated. Since I had the hat and I liked the hat, I wanted it to look as nice as possible and I am not of the school that thinks stains, divots, etc. add character to a hat unless its a beater. I, therefore wanted my OR to look as close to whole as possible so I tried the fix. I have never sold a hat because I have all mine to wear; I'm really not a collector. I can assure you I would never sell one that has been repaired without letting the buyer know.

I hope you didn't think that I was implying that YOU (or anyone participating here in this thread) were up to no good! I can promise you that the thought never even occured to me!

It's actually quite simple (and innocent). As I thought about the desireability (or otherwise) of felt repairs such as those described here, it occured to me that people often cover up damage to all sorts of items before reselling them. It seems to me not unreasonable to think that as hats become more valuable the temptation to cover up damage prior to resale will increase.

As far as your new OR goes, I'm sorry to hear that it had undisclosed damage when you bought it. I'm also delighted to learn how you were able to repair it to your satisfation. I hope you wear your new hat in good health and enjoy it for many many years to come!

Mr. Paladin
06-09-2009, 08:20 PM
Believe me sir, no offense was taken nor did I think you were implying shady dealings. I think your concern is quite legitimate, particularly if one buys these immaculate collectors' item hats like JTL, Garrett, and others here, with the expectation that they are getting what they paid for, or those who buy one with undisclosed damage or repair just as a wearing hat. I am just pleased to wear my used OR and not see the giant stock tank -sized divot in my upper peripheral vision all day long!!!

HarpPlayerGene
06-09-2009, 09:03 PM
Drat and double drat!! I was going to garner my fortune by contacting all Ebay hat sellers and offering my 'hide-a-hole' cover-up services so we could dupe the hat buying public out of millions. MILLION$, I say! BWA-HA-HA-HAAAAH!!

And I woulda' gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling Fedora Loungers.
:rage:




:D

HarpPlayerGene
06-29-2009, 08:17 PM
I recently worked on a hat for a fellow Lounger. I've copied my own text from prior and have added in photos of the process below.



Hey, Mr. P.

This is about the divots under the brim of your new Silverbelly OR style, right? I have repaired a lot of these on my hats - even fixed a complete hole right through the brims of two different fedoras. My method works best on mid-tone hats (medium brown, grey, taupe). Light hats may well show a darker place where you have added felt in the divots.

Here's what I do:

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0001.jpg

1) I get a small can of Super77 (3M spray adhesive available at hardware and office supply stores).

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0003.jpg

2) I use 150 grit sandpaper to scuff up some fluffy 'donor' felt from under the brim somewhere. You need quite a good amount of fluff as it smushes back down to nothing in the next steps.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0009.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0012.jpg

3) I spray a quick spurt of the adhesive at close range on a piece of paper or an old file folder so it makes a little puddle. Careful, this stuff comes out in a blast and overspray is very tacky. Keep the hat away while getting the adhesive glob on the paper.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0016.jpg

4) With toothpicks at the ready, I dab into the sticky glue (note, it is already drying so you don't have long to get some of it on the toothpick) and then dot the glue into the divot on the hat.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0017.jpg

5) With the glue now applied to the entire divot area, I take a pinch of the graft felt and begin working it into the divot. I press it in, and I circle my finger around a little and I press again. I'm trying to get it to stick to the adhesive AND to felt up with itself. Any oils or dirt from your finger, or too much adhesive used at a time will darken the felt you apply to the damaged area.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0018.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0019.jpg

6) I repeat steps 3 through 5 as needed to fill the area to level with the rest of the hat surface. Note, I am not trying to make the donor felt soak up that miniscule amount of glue I apply each time - just attach to it so on the surface all you see is dry felt.

Once you've gotten enough felt to stick and fill in the area, brush it lightly.

BEFORE
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0006.jpg

AFTER
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii79/harpplayergene/Moth%20Repair/DSC_0024.jpg

This sounds tricky - and it is. Best I can do to explain it. It takes a touch, but you start to instinctively feel what you're doing only by doing it. I have done this process on some hats and it is next to impossible to see where the problems originally were. I have done it on others and it did improve the damage but it did not perfectly restore it.

Using needles to pick or manipulate the felt, and/or using spray stiffener are not methods I've employed. Nothing against those ideas, I've just gotten good at really making solid repairs to moth nibbles by actually adding felt back into them.

G'LUCK!

Jabos
06-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Gene did this for me and I want to publicly thank him! After seeing this tutorial I laugh that I almost tried this myself. The photos don't do it justice. The level of the repaired area is EXACTLY level with the brim area around it. Great Job Gene!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

HarpPlayerGene
06-29-2009, 08:42 PM
Cool. You're welcome, Jabos!

I failed to mention that in the case of your hat, I built up the felt a little higher and then carefully sanded it back to level. It's almost like doing a drywall patch - just totally different. :p

jimmy the lid
06-29-2009, 08:44 PM
Bravo, Gene! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Fantastic work!

And, Jabos -- a fantastic lid!

Cheers,
JtL

Chinaski
06-29-2009, 08:55 PM
Very impressive, Gene. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures!

ScottF
02-04-2010, 11:48 AM
As pointed out to me in another thread by BK... Moths do not eat the felt. The damage is caused by moth larvae munching on "food" that is attached to the felt. I've actually found these little buggers lying dead on some of my hats. (My 4th Grade Science class taught me that the live larvae must have survived to become moths, and I haven't experienced a "Seinfeld" moment with live moths.)

Soo... moth larvae are the common enemy!

Is the above true?!? If so, it's just a matter of keeping food off your hat - sounds too simple.

Has anyone tried Gene's 'super 77 and felt fuzz' method lately? I'm about to, and want to make sure I get as much input as possible - it's a nice hat, but several holes that go all the way through the top.

rlk
02-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Is the above true?!? If so, it's just a matter of keeping food off your hat - sounds too simple.


Yes, thats the moths idea of food however which includes a vast number of organic substances including the felt.http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2107.html

Stan
02-04-2010, 01:56 PM
Hi,

You mean food as in animal hair which is pretty much what a hat is to a moth?

Yes, the little baby bugs eat the hair itself, then turn into adult moths and fly away.

I wonder if they have enough on the ball to come *back* to the same hat to lay their own eggs??

I have a few hats that have enough moth holes in them that they look like they've been used on the skeet range - as targets!

I keep them in the open on the shelves in the closet as 'please eat me and leave the ones in the boxes alone please' bait. Not that I can tell if any new holes develop, but so far none have gone after the good hats in the boxes! lol

later!

Stan

xwray
02-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Probably a dumb question but where are those moths coming from...how did they get into the closet...are eggs riding in on, for instance, ebay or other used purchases? I don't believe I've ever seen a moth fly into my house...flies, mosquitoes, an occasionl bee, and even a bird or two has come down the chimney over the years but never a moth. Maybe it's too hot for them in Houston?

Brad Bowers
02-05-2010, 02:53 PM
Silverfish are also a big problem, more so, I suspect, than moths. I know I've had them cause problems for me. There are other critters, too, that chew on our hats. That's why I've taken to calling them critter craters, since I never know what kind of critter made the crater.lol

Brad

ScottF
02-05-2010, 05:09 PM
Probably a dumb question but where are those moths coming from...how did they get into the closet...are eggs riding in on, for instance, ebay or other used purchases? I don't believe I've ever seen a moth fly into my house...flies, mosquitoes, an occasionl bee, and even a bird or two has come down the chimney over the years but never a moth. Maybe it's too hot for them in Houston?

I never saw one either, until I started accumulating hats - my guess is that they rode a hat in.

In any case, they finally seem to be gone - no signs for over a month now. Thanks, Sue, for the lemon eucalyptus instructions.

ScottF
02-05-2010, 05:09 PM
...

Has anyone tried Gene's 'super 77 and felt fuzz' method lately? I'm about to, and want to make sure I get as much input as possible - it's a nice hat, but several holes that go all the way through the top.

So I guess not?

chum
02-06-2010, 06:50 PM
link belowhttp://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=40634

Chinaski
02-06-2010, 07:16 PM
ScottF - yes I have tried Gene's moth repair method. I didn't use the same adhesive spray he used as I couldn't find it. I used a different brand.

However, it worked quite well on a deep moth divot. It wasn't through the felt, but deep and noticeable right above the ribbon at the front left side of the hat.

Using sand paper under the sweatband makes it easy to gather up some donor felt. The tricky part of the whole deal is applying the adhesive into the moth divot and getting the felt/adhesive mixture in there correctly.

Mine did not come out perfect, but is greatly improved. I could probably spend a bit more time and make it even less noticeable. Give it a try on a less-beloved hat and see how it goes.

ScottF
02-06-2010, 08:08 PM
ScottF - yes I have tried Gene's moth repair method. I didn't use the same adhesive spray he used as I couldn't find it. I used a different brand.

However, it worked quite well on a deep moth divot. It wasn't through the felt, but deep and noticeable right above the ribbon at the front left side of the hat.

Using sand paper under the sweatband makes it easy to gather up some donor felt. The tricky part of the whole deal is applying the adhesive into the moth divot and getting the felt/adhesive mixture in there correctly.

Mine did not come out perfect, but is greatly improved. I could probably spend a bit more time and make it even less noticeable. Give it a try on a less-beloved hat and see how it goes.

Thanks Chinaski, I just arrived home with a spray can of Elmers' version of spray adhesive - didn't want to fork out $16.99 for the Super 77. Looking forward to trying out Gene's trick. I already have felt saved up from using the hat sponge on it and thought about making a 'plug', since the holes are all the way through.

Chinaski
02-06-2010, 08:33 PM
Come to think of it, I believe mine was the Elmer's as well. I think my only mistake was rushing it a bit and ending up with a bit of a hardened BB type thing in the divot. A bit too much glue. It looks fine, but doesn't fee like the rest of the felt.

Annixter
02-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Another adhesive that may work is Gasgacinch automotive gasket sealer/primer. It is fluid enough to work with using a toothpick or needle, but it takes a little longer to tack-off than typical adhesives. That would allow for a little more time to play with the patch. When it dries, it's not going anywhere come rain or shine.

ScottF
02-08-2010, 12:03 AM
Another adhesive that may work is Gasgacinch automotive gasket sealer/primer. It is fluid enough to work with using a toothpick or needle, but it takes a little longer to tack-off than typical adhesives. That would allow for a little more time to play with the patch. When it dries, it's not going anywhere come rain or shine.

Thanks Annixter, Chinaski. It sounds like a tricky process - I might end up just stuffing a felt plug in the hole, gluing the bottom of the plug to a piece of surgical tape, then sanding the top smooth.

Sam Craig
02-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Really,..it doesn't taste very good. Would be better if they just ate grass or something.:rolleyes:

They did before the fall

Now they seek out and destroy beloved fur felt fedoras and great old wool suits

You can have some hideous suit from your high school days and a great old ivory wool from the 40s hanging side by side and the bugs will hit the good one every time

Fallen world:rage:

Lefty
02-13-2010, 02:50 PM
I neva worry about moths.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac319/leftyhats/hat%20ads/stetsonnevamoth.jpg

jeffconnors
02-13-2010, 07:53 PM
I tried it. It sure is tedious work. You have to go slowly using very small amounts of the super 77. Work to fast and you get hard dark spots in the felt that look almost as bad as the moth holes.
I started by working the divot with a sharp needle(like golf). I grabbed some doner fur from under the sweat band( using fine sand paper) Make sure you get alot of fur , as I found the results looked better if you pile a mountatin of fur on the hole and the mash the felt into the hole, and swish it around in a circle. I used a pin to apply the glue into the divot before I mashed in the felt. Use as little glue as you can.... Agian don't use alot of glue , work slow . I fixed 2 major divots and a hole right throgh the felt, it took almost 1 1/2 hours. The knox 25 I picked up from the bay for 22 dollars(because of moth damage ) looks a lot better now :-)

Annixter
02-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Jeff, any pictures of before and after? Does the patch blend in well, or does it at least look like the felt consists of a different color at those areas?

jeffconnors
02-14-2010, 04:16 PM
I will take some pics of the after and post them a little later. I think it blended rather well and if I was a scammer I am sure I could get away with a moth free post on eBay ;-)

jeffconnors
02-22-2010, 07:13 AM
Before

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/soft_boy/Webknoxhat014.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/soft_boy/Webknoxhat015.jpg

jeffconnors
02-22-2010, 07:14 AM
after


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/soft_boy/DSCF3028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/soft_boy/DSCF3029.jpg

gtdean48
02-22-2010, 07:45 AM
NICE job! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Lefty
02-22-2010, 09:14 AM
NICE job! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

+1.

ScottF
02-22-2010, 10:32 AM
Great job, Jeff. I still haven't gotten around to fixing mine, but will document with pics as well.

CRH
02-22-2010, 09:15 PM
You've heard of micro neuro surgery. ?

I think we should consider this thread a how too for micro furo surgery.

:eusa_clap

Annixter
02-22-2010, 11:01 PM
Great Job! Those were some pretty nasty moth holes, but it now looks as if the area is just slightly discolored--almost wet. Even then, it doesn't look like it is noticeable from a typical distance one will see the hat at. :eusa_clap

bolthead
03-09-2010, 09:26 PM
Yeah, for that, sanding a little to try to even out the surface some and then brushing (counterclockwise, when looking down on hat) will probably be the best, safest solution.

I have repaired deep divots and actual holes with a glue method. I use sand paper - 150 grit, I think - to scuff up some fluffy felt from under the back brim or inside the crown.

Then, on a piece of paper, I spray a spritz of Super 77 - available at art stores and some office supplies. Then, quickly before it tacks up, I get some of the adhesive on a sharp toothpick and dot it into the damaged area. This is an almost invisible amount of glue I'm applying and I totally avoid getting any on the undamaged surface.

Then I pinch some fluff and begin to smush it into the divot. When it's a hole, I have to do this process a few times and from both sides. It's important to sort of massage the felt material in so it knits up a little and gets flat. It's better to do this in degrees, in steps, than to try to gob a bunch of glue and felt in too fast. Very delicate procedure.

One time, for an area about the size of a peanut that was thin and had a hole in the center, I actually made a stencil out of a Post-It and covered the rest of the hat so I could lightly spray the adhesive directly onto the area I needed to build back up.

I have saved the look of about six hats - two of them with holes right through. Only when the hat gets wet do you see the difference in the nature of the felt in those areas. HOWEVER, I'm sure it's possible to make a gooey mess so try this at your hat's own risk.
Isn't there any other kind of glue we can use? I couldn't find any of that stuff man. [huh]

Kangfish
03-09-2010, 09:37 PM
Besides the 77 spray wich worked fineI've also used a brand of fabric glue called "Aleens OK to wash it" and "Aleens Fabric Fusion". Both work well. The Fabris Fusion will withstand dry cleaning fluids (supposedly) and the OK To Wash It withstands soap and water. Both available at Wal Mart or any fabric store. - John

Dobb
05-07-2012, 02:57 PM
There is a hat in my sights that is real nice in every way except the ugly moth damage. Is it possible to repair , or at least fill and blend in, the ugly little spots? I can't believe how many hats are damaged by moths. I've never seen a moth fly out of my closet.

zetwal
05-07-2012, 02:59 PM
Look here,

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?38635

Dobb
05-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Very helpful. After reading the repair suggestions, I am a little closer to buying the hat.

zetwal
05-07-2012, 03:08 PM
Very helpful. After reading the repair suggestions, I am a little closer to buying the hat.

I'm glad it helped. Good luck ... :yo:

jlee562
05-07-2012, 04:31 PM
Very helpful. After reading the repair suggestions, I am a little closer to buying the hat.

A lot depends on how deep the divots are and how many of them. I just got a Dobbs Gay Prince which had some very light moth nibbles that are virtually invisible after some work with a hat sponge and hat brush.

Dobb
05-07-2012, 06:42 PM
A lot depends on how deep the divots are and how many of them. I just got a Dobbs Gay Prince which had some very light moth nibbles that are virtually invisible after some work with a hat sponge and hat brush.

There are three divots. Two are , or appear to be, deep. But photos on ebay can be misleading.I can't believe the difference in color on one hat I bought. It appeared to be gray and when I opened the box it was a brown hat. My computer skills leave much to be desired but i will get the ebay number and post it here so I can get some input.

Dobb
05-07-2012, 06:51 PM
Here is the product number (251033129730) I like this hat for it's high crown, nice color, and basically new condition with exception of the moth bites. It would be my first western style hat.

hatsandart
06-11-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm looking for some ideas for repairing or at least "reducing" the appearance of moth bites. Smaller bites which are under the brim and those that are not immediately noticeable are not really my concern. I do have several great hats with moth bites that are deep (1/2 way through the felt) which are on the crown that are impossible to not to see immediately.
Are there methods for repairing these? or does it just get to add to the hat's 'character.'

Any input will be grately appreciated.

Iyor
06-11-2012, 10:52 AM
There are hatters who can turn the hat inside out. That will likely be the best option for deep bites on tbe crown.

mayserwegener
06-12-2012, 06:45 AM
It is really tough to deal with moth damage. I would leave it as is because you might end up making it worse. This is based on my past experience.

Longplay
02-01-2014, 10:24 PM
A lot depends on how deep the divots are and how many of them. I just got a Dobbs Gay Prince which had some very light moth nibbles that are virtually invisible after some work with a hat sponge and hat brush.

Would damage of the extent on the brim of this hat (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281254425386&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123)be repairable?

ManofKent
02-01-2014, 10:46 PM
Would damage of the extent on the brim of this hat (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281254425386&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123)be repairable?

They look pretty deep from the photo - you might be able to reduce their appearance, but I don't think even the most skilled restorer is going to fully hide those.

Annixter
02-01-2014, 11:55 PM
I agree with MK. The other issue is that the worse ones look clustered, so it will be much harder to trick the eye as opposed to a patch spot here and there. It's too bad moths got to it because it's a nice hat otherwise.