Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Matt Jones]

Hi all,

I recently purchased a vintage U.S Navy pea coat, and was curious about its age. Are there any resources that could help me figure this out? The coat's inner markings by themselves don't reveal much of anything. Any help is appreciated.

[Holzkopf]

Would you happen to have a picture of it that you could show us? I have one myself and I'm not sure of the date either.

[shamus]

if your jacket is a real US model it will have a tag that gives the model, mil number and the year is usually hidden in that.

Is your tag white or Black. If it's black with yellow letters it's pre mid 60's. But a pea coat hasn't really changed in all those years.

[MudInYerEye]

No expert here, but I've heard that older models have pockets lined in corduroy (I suspect I may have mispelled this word.)

[shamus]

true, I believe that they are or at least a heavy cotton. Not satin like a new one. Also if your tag is not at by the collar or right bottom, it might be in the left pocket.

The buttons might be of a bakelight material instead of the modern black plastic too.

[BellyTank]

A wartime label should be white-ish cotton/oilcloth with USN blurb and an inspector's mark. The wool on the older Peas is denser and flatter- less fuzzy.

As Shamus said, look for labels/tags in the pockets and inside seams-

B
T

[jake431]

Anyone know of a good place to look for older Pea Coats? Am I about to be directed to ebay again?

-Jake

[Matt Jones]

You guys are great, thanks!

Here are more details of my coat:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/coat3.jpg

It's your standard pea coat design -- double breasted, single vent. There are six buttons visible on the front, with another button hidden under each collar. The color is navy of course, and the buttons look black to me. The coat is fully lined (something silky, dark navy/black in color). It's a beauty and in excellent condition!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/pocket.jpg

The handwarmer pockets are lined in a tan corduroy. I've heard from a few sources that this was only done in the 40's.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/inside_button.jpg

Here is the "inner" button, with a low pocket underneath, located on your left hip if you're wearing the coat.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/tag2.jpg

The tag is located just below the right inside breast pocket. It's white cloth with black lettering, yellowed with age. The text is faded, but I can make out most of it:

COAT, MAN'S,
WOOL KERSEY
DSA 100-2739
Size 36R
100% WOOL

To the left is a black stamp "12" (must be the inspector). Around the edges, hand written in blue ink are the owner's name and at the bottom is:

B33 37 07 Co. 184

The name and number are also stamped on the lining below the tag, and again near the vent.

That's about it. The kersey wool is thick, dense, flat and extremely heavy -- not the fluffy/fuzzy stuff you see on modern pea coats. Weighs a ton! I love it.

[gdkenoyer]

The handwarmer pockets are lined in a tan corduroy. I've heard from a few sources that this was only done in the 40's.

That may be, but my wife has her brother's peacoat issued to him during Vietnam; it has very nice cordury lining in the pockets...

[guitone]

How do the fit on these older militray peacoasts run? Would a 36 be a true 36?

[Matt Jones]

How do the fit on these older militray peacoasts run? Would a 36 be a true 36?

They're very fitted. 36 fits more like a 34.

Go one size larger than your suit size.

[guitone]

They're very fitted. 36 fits more like a 34.

Go one size larger than your suit size.

Especially as I get a bit older and dislike tight, thanks.

First I need to wear my new barbour and my new G2....

[Wild Root]

Hello, I may be able to offer some sound advice in dating a pea coat.

I have two WWII pea coats. Both have the corduroy pockets and I also have been told that the corduroy pocket lining has been continued into years after the war. So, how to find out if your pea coat is a war time relic? Well, there is only one way that I know can not be dispelled. It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s all about the label!

A true WWII pea coat will have a rectangular aged white label (Originally white) will read like this:

Manufactured by
Navy Clothing Factory.

It will also have an anchor in the upper right and left hand corners. There will also be a few lines at the bottom for name and rank.

These are the labels that you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll find in 30?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and 40?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s WWII Naval uniforms such as jumper tops and trousers. Just as a side note, if you find navy trousers of the 13 button kind, to know they?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re age you will have to see a metal zipper in the left pocket. If there is no zipper, that means its post 1945.

Hope that helps!

Root.

This is a post war label.
http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/be/4d/b6_1_b.JPG I'll post a war time label soon.

[Matt Jones]

Thanks Root! That's exactly the kind of info I've been trying to find.

Do you know approximately what years they were made with Kersey wool?

[Matt Jones]

I'll post a war time label soon.

Here's one:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/wwii_pea.jpg

[Wild Root]

That's the war time label alright! I tried to find one on the net and couldn't for the life of me! I was going to take a photo of it but, I got lazy. :p

Glad I could help!

Root.

[Peacoat]

Thanks Root! That's exactly the kind of info I've been trying to find.

Do you know approximately what years they were made with Kersey wool?

I realize this thread is stale, but I just came across this site, and knowing a few things about Navy peacoats, thought I might answer your question. Hope you come back and see the answer. The "Kersey" wool coats were in production until approximately 1980 when a new contract was let, specifying a different wool. This wool is a "Melton" wool, and is a lighter and more fuzzy wool than the old thick and smooth type wool previously used. Although the old wool was not always called "Kersey" it was the same dense heavy wool until replaced by the Melton wool, which is, and has been, used in the current issue coats for the last 25 years. As the Melton wool is not as thick and warm, the current issue coats have a layer of insulation between the liner and the shell to make them as warm as the Kersey coats. The first contractor to manufacture the new coats was Vi-Mil, Inc. I can't remember if they are still in business, but I did know that at one time. The current contract holder is SterlingWear of Boston, which makes an excellent "new" peacoat.

The color is also different. The current issue coats are black, and the Kersey wool coats are a very dark blue, which appears to be black unless compared to a truly black garment in strong light.

In 1967 the tag began showing the date of contract in the "contract number" which appeared on the tag. That practice is still followed, so dating these coats is simple. Also easy is dating the coats immediately preceeding 1967. During the mid 60s (and not sure how far before that) the tag read simply "US NAVY" and the stitching on the sleeve at, and just above the cuff was distinctive. I believe the tag immediately preceeding the mid 60s tag was one that read "Naval Clothing Factory" and the one before that was "Naval Clothing Depot" which I believe to have been the Korean era. The WWII era produced thousands of these coats, and the language on the tags may have changed several times during the course of the war and with the various contractors, but I'm not sure.

The really old coats had four buttons, and the ones issued after WWII (and maybe during) had three buttons. My history on the WWII coats is not yet nailed down, so I am giving my best guess based on what I do know.

Hope you come back, read this thread, and see the answer to your question; the short answer to which is: From the beginning until 1980. Later, Peacoat.

[green papaya]

the current peacoats are still heavy, I weighed mine and it weighed over 6 pounds!

date of mfg. 1994 by Crown Clothing Co.

[Peacoat]

the current peacoats are still heavy, I weighed mine and it weighed over 6 pounds!

date of mfg. 1994 by Crown Clothing Co.

Yes, they are still heavy, and, more importantly, still warm coats. I have a 1985 dated coat that was made by Cavalier and a bunch of the older coats. I can tell no appreciable difference in the warmth. There may be a difference in rainy or windy conditions because of the tightness of the weave on the older coats, but I have done no objective testing. I am more interested these days in determing the dates of manufacture of the older coats. From about 1950 on I have a pretty good grasp of the labels and how they tell the story of the era in which the coats were manufactured. Prior to then, I just am not sure. That was 60 years ago, and there aren't that many coats left from that era still in circulation.

[Matt Jones]

Hope you come back, read this thread, and see the answer to your question; the short answer to which is: From the beginning until 1980. Later, Peacoat.

Thanks so much for the wealth of information on peacoats; it is most appreciated!

[Peacoat]

You guys are great, thanks!

Here are more details of my coat:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/fedorajones/coat3.jpg

It's your standard pea coat design -- double breasted, single vent. There are six buttons visible on the front, with another button hidden under each collar. The color is navy of course, and the buttons look black to me. The coat is fully lined (something silky, dark navy/black in color). It's a beauty and in excellent condition!

The handwarmer pockets are lined in a tan corduroy. I've heard from a few sources that this was only done in the 40's.

The tag is located just below the right inside breast pocket. It's white cloth with black lettering, yellowed with age. The text is faded, but I can make out most of it:

COAT, MAN'S,
WOOL KERSEY
DSA 100-2739
Size 36R
100% WOOL



Hey Matt, I finally found my tag notes I made on these great old coats. You have a 1966 coat. I thought that was probably the year, but was reluctant to make a definitive statement until I located my notes. It just took me longer to find my notes than I thought.

The tag, as you described it, is substantially different from the tags that preceeded it. It is very similar to the tags that came after it, but it is unique in that it is the only year of that version of the tag that the date code is not included in the DSA or DLA contract number. Also, it is the next to last year that corduroy was used in the outside pockets. 1967 was the last corduroy year, and a white/gray cotton was used after that.

1966 was a good year for peacoats, and a bunch were made that year, in anticipation of the Vietnam buildup. My favorite year is the 1965 coat. The heading of the tag for that year simply reads: "US NAVY" I have one of those that my best buddy was issued in April, 1965. He gave it to me in November, 2005. I have only found one other 1965 coat in my size on e-bay, and I didn't bid enough on it. They seem to be relatively rare, but I will get another one of the these days. The coat I am wearing this morning is a 1967 coat. It is one of my favorites as that is the year I was in Vietnam.

Take care of your coat by keeping it in a moth protected closet, or keeping it in a moth protected garment bag, and having it cleaned once a year before you store it during warm weather. Cleaning removes particles of food and other matter that moths are drawn to. I have seen more coats damaged by moths than any other way. Reweaving can be done, but it is expensive and best avoided.

Put a heavy turtleneck on under your peacoat, turn the big collar up, and you are ready for the worst winter can throw at you. Enjoy it. I enjoy all 15 or so of the ones that I have!

If I knew how to post an avatar, I would submit a picture of me in one of my coats. Later, Peacoat.

[Wolf]

Speaking of Pea Coats, I have my original one that I was issued in 1983. Part way through my enlistment, they made us take the silver buttons off and put plastic black buttons. I'd like to switch it back, but have been unable to find the original buttons. Anyone know where I can look?

Thanks in advance

[SHARPETOYS]

I saw some metal buttons today obn Ebay. I don't know if they are correct or not. Look under Vintage pea coat buttons...:)

[Peacoat]

I found the buttons on e-bay and compared them to a 1980 coat I have that has the metal buttons. They are close but have a small eagle above a shield, and my buttons only have an eagle. Also the size is a little different. They are advertised as 1 1/4" and my original buttons are an inch. It would never hurt to get them and see how they work.

I looked this morning to see what I could find for you, and had no luck. A Navy Captain friend of mine is going to call the uniform clothing store in, I believe, Atlanta and see if they have any idea of where the metal buttons might be obtained. Since it is a discontinued item, I doubt there will be much success there, but it is worth a shot.

Do you remember what year you changed the buttons from silver to black plastic? I would like to have that information for my dating notes.

[Wolf]

I saw some metal buttons today obn Ebay. I don't know if they are correct or not. Look under Vintage pea coat buttons...:)

Thanks, I looked at them, they are different. I'm only missing a couple, got lost in the moves.

Peacoat, not exactly, I'm going to guess between 86 and 89, since I remember I was married, my wife sewed them on for me. And I wasn't married until 86 and got out of the Navy in 92.

[Matt Jones]

1966 was a good year for peacoats, and a bunch were made that year, in anticipation of the Vietnam buildup. My favorite year is the 1965 coat.


Thanks so much for the info! You say your favorite is the 1965... any particular reason? Or is it more about the nostalgia?



Put a heavy turtleneck on under your peacoat, turn the big collar up, and you are ready for the worst winter can throw at you.


Very true! My coat (all six pounds of it) has served me well this winter. It keeps out the chill better than anything I've ever had.

[feltfan]

Hi All,

Last winter I gave my SO a classic old Navy peacoat.
Atually, I think it might have been Coast Guard, but same thing, almost.
The material and stitching are truly incredible. Wish I
could find one to fit me. That felt-like wool is so dense-
nothing like the peacoats you see in stores today. And the
lining detail... I'm a convert.

Anyway, it was in nearly perfect condition (and cost next
to nothing at a thrift store), but it's missing a few buttons.

These are the classic 1 1/4" black buttons with the impression
of an anchor and rope.

Anyone know where I can find replacements? Preferably vintage,
but I'd accept newer ones, too.

Thanks!

[Marc Chevalier]

Here in L.A., fabric stores sell those buttons. They're pretty much identical to the ones on your coat. Try the biggest fabric store in your area.

.

[The Wingnut]

http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.com

I know for a fact there's a small drawer full of peacoat buttons there. I'm constantly popping the buttons off of mine, drives me nuts.

[Marc Chevalier]

...drives me nuts.

I'll show you what drives me nuts! AAAGGGHHH!


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/85_1_sbl.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/65_1_sbl.jpg

[feltfan]

http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.com

I know for a fact there's a small drawer full of peacoat buttons there. I'm constantly popping the buttons off of mine, drives me nuts.

Man, that worked like a charm.
He's sending me a half dozen today.

THANKS!

Now if someone comes across one of these incredible
classic vintage peacoats in size 48 or 50, do let me know...


And Marc, that jacket is a crime. :eek: Can't you dye it black?

[Marc Chevalier]

And Marc, that jacket is a crime. :eek: Can't you dye it black?

It's not mine, thank goodness.

.

[feltfan]

The buttons arrived today. They appear identical,
but are a touch lighter than the originals on the coat.
Good enough for me- I'm thrilled. I do wonder if
button weight might be a way to date these coats.

Thanks again, Wingnut.

[The Wingnut]

You're welcome! Visit the shop sometime if you're in Petaluma.

[Peacoat]

The buttons arrived today. They appear identical,
but are a touch lighter than the originals on the coat.
Good enough for me- I'm thrilled. I do wonder if
button weight might be a way to date these coats.

Thanks again, Wingnut.

They can't be dated by the buttons, but I can date them with information from a tag and some other features on the coat. If you want a thick heavy wool, you will want a coat manufactured prior to 1980 as that is when the changeover to "Melton" wool was made. The new coats are probably as warm as the old coats as there is insulation used inside the coat to compensate for the lighter wool. The old wool is more dense, and because of that, is more wind resistant. Maybe more water resistant as well.

E-bay has an excellent selection of peacoats, and usually has a supply of buttons as well. To cut through the garbage, go to men's clothing, outerwear (I believe) and search for "peacoat" and "pea coat." They are spelled both ways. Don't know what the selection is these days, as I haven't looked at them in several months.

My wife has restricted me from bringing home any more peacoats. She says too many is way more than enough. But if I find one that needs a home, I can always find room for it.

If you want help in dating one, let me know. A picture of the label and a description of the number and placing of the buttons is helpful.

[Tomasso]

I'll show you what drives me nuts! AAAGGGHHH!


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/85_1_sbl.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/65_1_sbl.jpg
I agree, the pattern matching is atroucious;)

[green papaya]

I like peacoats, but the weather seldom gets cold enough in CA to wear my peacoat, maybe one month out of the year it gets chilly enough to wear my peacoat on a cold winter night.

[Peacoat]

I like peacoats, but the weather seldom gets cold enough in CA to wear my peacoat, maybe one month out of the year it gets chilly enough to wear my peacoat on a cold winter night.

In Tennessee, we are "lucky" to have Peacoat weather just about every day from December through February and into March.

Doesn't seem to be much more than the occasional interest on this board in Peacoats, but they are my favorite. I am a professional who has several nice wool and cashmere overcoats, but I usually find a way to wear one of my Peacoats just about everyday on the way into and home from work during the winter. They are more comfortable in the car and warmer than the standard overcoat. I do have an overcoat at the office for those midday forays into more conservative society, but the Peacoat gets me to the office and back home again.

I have tried, without success, to get interested in the WWII leather flight jackets that are so popular on this board. Probably because the flight jackets I wore during my military pilot (helicopters--VN) days was the green nylon, and that is what I relate to. But where is elan in a current issue nylon jacket?

I think if I could find an original leather WWII jacket, my interest would be much higher, but I have given up on that.

Also, I haven't figured out why the leather jackets were so popular with the bomber crews of the 8th Air Force. From the pictures I have seen here, there doesn't seem to be much insulation in them, and it certainly got cold at 20,000+ feet over Germany. Maybe someone here can answer that for me.

[feltfan]

So I went to sew the new buttons on my SO's peacoat
and found that, to my horror, her dog had chewed up a portion
of the coat! Specifically, one side of the button holes. It's
ragged.

Anyone have ideas on how I can fix it? I am inclined to have
a skilled tailor either:

- patch the area with matching fabric

or

- patch the area with a similarly colored fabric

The problem is, it's one thing to find replacement buttons
but quite another to find some of that classic fabric.
Fortunately the lining is intact. Either way, the coat can
be buttoned one way and will still look right.

Any opinions or sources for that incredibly dense wool
fabric they used to use?

Thanks!

[Matt Deckard]

I'll show you what drives me nuts! AAAGGGHHH!


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/85_1_sbl.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/65_1_sbl.jpg

It's very Doctor Who in the 70's.

Regular fabric shops or even Ebay you can find Peacoat buttons.

[CasaBlancaChuck]

Pre-WWII buttons (I'm not sure the year) were different than the WWII era design. I had a terrific WWI coat with a large, multi-color dragon design sewn on the inner liner (undoubtedly done in Asia) but, alas, the coat was way too small for me. The anchor buttons from that era had (from memory) little stars circling the outer edge of the button. I believe there were 13 of them. I now (after many disappointments) have the (to me) perfect WWII peacoat...in like new condition, a perfect fit with that dark, dark Navy blue color that can only be seen out in the sunlight or when held next to a modern black one, and with the cordury pocket liners. The manufacturer's label with the anchors is also still attached.
Best wishes,
Chuck

[feltfan]

No one knows where to find more of that peacoat fabric?

[Peacoat]

No one knows where to find more of that peacoat fabric?

Do you want the fabric, or do you want the coat made from the fabric? The only fabric you would be able to get today would be the post 1980 fabric. The coats made of the old fabric are readily available on ebay. You have to know what you are looking for and the questions to ask to insure that the coat is made of the vintage fabric and is not a current issue coat or a reproduction. Nothing wrong with the current issue coats, but they don't have that thick smooth wool that is the trademark of the old classic coats. I hope I didn't answer a question you didn't ask.

As to the previous post about the buttons: yes, the pre WWII coats had the stars around the outer perimeter of the button. They are increasingly difficult to find.

[feltfan]

Do you want the fabric, or do you want the coat made from the fabric?

Ah, you must have missed my earlier post, Peacoat.
The coat on which I was replacing buttons was chewed
by a dog. So I am looking for enough *vintage* fabric
to match and repair. Any ideas?

Anyone have a trashed vintage peacoat with salvageable parts?

Thanks.

[Peacoat]

Ah, you must have missed my earlier post, Peacoat.
The coat on which I was replacing buttons was chewed
by a dog. So I am looking for enough *vintage* fabric
to match and repair. Any ideas?

Anyone have a trashed vintage peacoat with salvageable parts?

Thanks.

Sorry, I didn't see that post. There should be enough material on the inside flap (the material is doubled there) for any repair that you need done, if it can be done.

I saw in another post that you want a vintage Peacoat, size 48 or 50 . That size is hard to find as most of the young men going in the Navy back then wore a 42 or smaller. The 38s and 40s are easy to find. The tag size is not always accurate. The best way to determine what size you need is to find a coat that fits you well--the same as you want the Peacoat to fit--lay it face up flat on a bed, and measure across the chest from just under one armpit to just under the other armpit. For your size, you should have a measurement of about 24 to 25". Most experienced sellers of Peacoats will give that measurement in the ebay ad. If not, ask for it. However, with all of that in mind, I normally wear a 42, and a Peacoat in size 42 is almost always a good fit for me, whether it is a WWII or a current issue. A size 42 will normally measure 44" flat across the front. The outside measurement is usually 2" larger than the inside measurement.

Let me know what you measure, and I will go on ebay to see if a vintage coat is available in your size. I looked for a 50 for a buddy of mine last year, and only found one in three months of searching. He gave me his 1965 original issue size 42 Peacoat, and I wanted to find him a replacement that fit him in his new and expanded size.

[dougie]

Hi all,

Over the weekend I picked up a WW2-issue peacoat (I base the date on info I found in past threads; the label is wartime as far as i can tell). The body fabric is in perfect shape (no holes, tears, or discoloration) except around the collar, where some of the color has worn away. It's not a big deal but I was wondering if there was a process by which a tailor or I might restore the collar so that the color is consistent with the rest of the coat. Any thoughts?

Also, the lapels are small relative to most peacoats (there are four buttons visible) and aren't pressed down. Should they be pressed? I've been looking for photos from the era online but have come up empty.

Thanks in advance.

[Peacoat]

One of the problems with the four button small lapel WWII coat is that the lapels don't always lie flat against the coat. It doesn't bother me, but it probably bothered the military neat freaks back then. I asked the cleaners about this and was told that the lapels would be steamed, but not pressed. Evidently the steaming is intended to make them lie flat. That might work if they are trained to lie flat after a steaming. I just don't worry about it too much, but I did put a strong clip on the lapels to help train it. It helped some.

My WWII coat has some wear at the collar, but it is not enough that I want to do anything about it. Gives it character. I imagine a good reweaver could do something with it. Depending on the size of repair, it might be inexpensive, or relatively expensive. Find a shop that specializes in reweaving and see what they say after having seen the coat.

WWII coats in good condition are increasingly difficult to find. Take care of it by brushing it often, don't eat while wearing it (moths are attracted to the food crumbs), have it cleaned at the end of the season (to protect from moths), and always hang it in a moth protected closet. Moth protectors can be found for five or six dollars, and last for three months. My wife and I protect all of our closets as peacoats are squirreled away in all of them.

[dougie]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not really inclined to go to a reweaver as I agree about the coat having character. It's got a lot of character, too: the stencil is still visible in a couple of places and when I was inspecting the coat after I got home I pulled a mercury-head dime and a franc from the lining, both of which are dated 1941. Pretty cool, huh? I think the thing deserves to stay as 'issued.'

[Asudef]

Sorry to dig up an old thread but I found this forum through a search on pea coats as I'm trying to gain more information and this has to be the most informative page I've found so far. I'm trying to to make an educated purchase but I still have some questions to ask.

1) Did vintage navy pea coats ever have chin/neck straps to hold up the collars?
2)Also were there any style of coats made with a double breasted 6 or 8 button front but have the extra two for the neck spaced farther up?

I saw these while browsing ebay one day and I sort of like the style, but at the same time I want to get an authentic navy pea coat so I would just like to clarify.

Another question, are there only US Navy pea coats or is it possible to find BRN pea coats/reefer jackets as well?
I'm also looking for a BRN Duffel coat as well but this is neither the time nor the place :o

Thanks.

[Peacoat]

The answer to both of your questions is yes. But many of the current repros also have eight button fronts (WWII style). If you can send me a picture of the tag, and of the front of the jacket, I can give you a good idea of the date. Or, if you can give me the ebay number, I can look at it and see what info is available. Or, just give me the size you are looking at on ebay, and I can find it. For some reason, the WWII tag was resurrected in the fifties, and I need to know how many buttons are on the front of the jacket in order to date it. The number of buttons on the front distinguishes the WWII jackets from the "modern" era jackets.

In response to your last question, the American peacoats were patterned after the Royal Navy peacoats.

[cneil]

I own two authentic United States Navy Pea Coats, one issued to my Dad in 1949, we believe it was probably new issue of product made for the Navy in WWII, but not issued. (All most ever thing in 1949 was left over from WWII, never issued, but manufactured in late 44 or 45)

The Seconded is one from my brother, Issued about 10 years ago.

Styling is very similar, but I have detected a difference, the Wool on my father’s coat is denser, it weighs more and is warmer.

No one would pick up my brothers coat and say it is light, or say it is not warm, but there is an obvious quality drop over the years, if only slight, it is still noticeable.

Unfortunately, we no longer have my dad’s 1955 Officers Pea Coat, it was longer in length.

Curtis

[Asudef]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses!

So if yes to both questions, were there any specific dates for when these two styles were produced together or has it always been available for all WWII coats? When you say 8 button, are you including the two hidden under the lapels like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-MENS-NAVY-PEA-COAT-SIZE-36-L-Long-in-BLACK_W0QQitemZ180065180799QQihZ008QQcategoryZ5798 8QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)?
Or this one? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Real-US-Navy-Peacoat-Pea-Coat-P-Jacket-Uniform-42-R_W0QQitemZ330063245992QQihZ014QQcategoryZ57988QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I'm not looking at any specific coats right now but I did when I first found this thread; I actually found one I liked but it measured out to be too small and I realized it wasn't navy issue. I heard the old coats were sized to be very snug, are there any guidelines to watch for when buying one?

I wasn't fortunate enough to know or have any relatives in the navy to have a coat get passed on to me though. Besides, if I got one in the navy I don't think I would want to part from it.

[Peacoat]

Both of these coats are what I would call a six button front. I don't count the buttons hidden under the lapel, but some might. The second coat is a 1970 coat, which has the old style dense wool. The new style, "Melton" wool coats started about 1980.

The WWII coats, and earlier, had eight button fronts--four rows of two buttons. Sometime after WWII the six button fronts were issued. Don't know the year. I have a 1949 coat with six buttons, so the eight button coats were replaced in 1949 or before. There may have been a period of transition when both were issued, as the supply of eight buttons were dwindling.

The six button coat fixed the problem of the "unruly" lapel. On the eight button coats, the top part of the lapel was too short to lie down as intended on many of the coats. With the advent of the six button coat, the top of the lapel was longer, and allowed the lapel to lie flat against the front of the coat, just below the collar.

To fit a peacoat, you should find one of your coats that is a good fit and measure it. The peacoat should be fitted so that a sweater will comfortably fit under it--at least that is the way I like to wear mine on cold days. I have a couple that are fitted more snugly for milder days, say in the forties. Lay the coat face up and flat on a bed or the floor. Measure across the chest, just under the armpits. That is the measurement that most sellers give for the chest fit. With my peacoats, I have found that if I measure as above, double that number and then subtract two, that is the stated chest size of the coat. For instance, most of my coats measure about 22 inches across the front. Double that to get 44 and subtract 2 inches for the thickness of the coat, and the chest size is 42. As a good starting point, I have found that the stated size of the coat is pretty close to what I wear.

For the sleeve measurement, most sellers measure from the seam where the sleeve joins the shoulder, down to the end of the cuff. The measurement for me, and for most unaltered 42 coats is about 26".

Although there is opinion to the contrary, I have found that sizes have remained about the same over the years. There is no appreciable difference in fit in my WWII coat and the coats from the other years I own--up to current issue.

To give you an idea for relationship between the sizes, I can wear a 40 long or a 42 regular. The 40 must be a long to get the sleeves long enough and to have the proper overall length. It is a snug fit without a sweater underneath. The 42 regular gives me a little more overall room, and has the proper length, both overall and sleeve length. It also has more room in the sleeves for elbow and arm movement. I can comfortably wear a sweater under it for additional warmth on cold days--30's and below. My normal coat size is a 42 regular, so the peacoats are sized accurately. I am 6 feet tall and 180 lbs.

For more discussions about peacoat fitting, IrishDon, a seller on ebay, can give you some tips. He sells a lot of peacoats, mostly current issue, and gives good advice, with a few exceptions. His information on color is not exactly accurate. For instance, all peacoats are not black, only those since 1980. And he has a few other inaccuracies--especially with respect to vintage coats, but it will give you some additional information.

A poster above mentioned a longer coat for officers. The officers, and chiefs, could wear "bridge coats." The bridge coats have gold buttons, are slightly below the knee in length and are not nearly as thick as a peacoat. They come with a zip out lining, which makes them substantially warmer, if needed. The only tag I could find in my bridge coat was the "union tag," so no other information about that coat is available.

I didn't intend to write a chapter in a book when I got started, but it just sort of went that way. If you have more questions, I will be glad to answer them.

[Dakota]

I have two WWII Naval pea coats and both of them have 10 buttons on the front, plus the chin strap under the collar on one side. I have another vintage Naval pea coat with 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when it is folded down. It has black corduroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If anyone has any idea about how old this one might be, please let me know. From what I understand, the ones with the black corduroy lined pockets are very rare. I've only seen two of them on ebay in the last 3 or 4 years.

Dakota

[Dakota]

I have a vintage Naval pea coat. It has 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when folded down. It has black cordoroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If you have any idea as to how old it might be, please let me know.

Dakota


They can't be dated by the buttons, but I can date them with information from a tag and some other features on the coat. If you want a thick heavy wool, you will want a coat manufactured prior to 1980 as that is when the changeover to "Melton" wool was made. The new coats are probably as warm as the old coats as there is insulation used inside the coat to compensate for the lighter wool. The old wool is more dense, and because of that, is more wind resistant. Maybe more water resistant as well.

E-bay has an excellent selection of peacoats, and usually has a supply of buttons as well. To cut through the garbage, go to men's clothing, outerwear (I believe) and search for "peacoat" and "pea coat." They are spelled both ways. Don't know what the selection is these days, as I haven't looked at them in several months.

My wife has restricted me from bringing home any more peacoats. She says too many is way more than enough. But if I find one that needs a home, I can always find room for it.

If you want help in dating one, let me know. A picture of the label and a description of the number and placing of the buttons is helpful.

[Asudef]

Thank you, this is exactly the info I was looking for and I don't mind long informative posts. It looks like I wear the same size as you :)
So all Navy pea coats should have chin straps? Also which year did they stop using corduroy to line the pockets?

[Peacoat]

I have two WWII Naval pea coats and both of them have 10 buttons on the front, plus the chin strap under the collar on one side. I have another vintage Naval pea coat with 8 buttons, two of which are under the collar when it is folded down. It has black corduroy lined pockets. The tag reads: COAT, MAN'S WOOL KERSEY, DSA 100-4212, 100% WOOL, SIZE 40, FSN 8405-268-8615. If anyone has any idea about how old this one might be, please let me know. From what I understand, the ones with the black corduroy lined pockets are very rare. I've only seen two of them on ebay in the last 3 or 4 years.

Dakota

The black corduroy in the pockets is very rare. I have never seen one. I wonder if you looked at the color in direct sunlight whether the color would be a very dark brown that appears to be black under low light conditions? If so, the explanation would be that the supplier of the corduroy got too much brown dye in the mix while manufacturing that particular batch of material. If it truly is black corduroy, then it is an anomaly that I can't explain. I would think that the contract would have been specific as to the color as well as the material used in the pockets.

The tag in your jacket is what I think of as a "transition" tag. It came after the "US NAVY" tag and before the tags that have the dates in the contract number. There was only one year that such a tag was used, so it is easy to date. You have a 1966 model peacoat. There was a rapid buildup of forces during that period of time, so that may answer how the odd color of corduroy made it to the pockets of that particular coat. I have a 1966 peacoat, and I believe it has the standard brown corduroy in the pockets.

If you get a chance, and can find some sunlight, please let me know about the color of the pockets. It is something I can add to my knowledge bank on these pieces of history.

[Peacoat]

Thank you, this is exactly the info I was looking for and I don't mind long informative posts. It looks like I wear the same size as you :)
So all Navy pea coats should have chin straps? Also which year did they stop using corduroy to line the pockets?

I believe that the chin straps were discontinued after WWII. My WWII peacoat (eight buttons showing)* has a chin strap, and my 1949 coat (six buttons showing) does not. The chin straps probably were used only on the eight button (showing) coats. When they changed to the six button coats, two buttons under the collar were used to button the lapels close to the throat, if necessary. That was later changed to one button on the right side, which was really all that was needed.

Since the beginning of time, corduroy had been used for hand warmer pocket lining in Navy peacoats. It was warm and durable. I imagine it also added a few cents extra to the cost of each jacket. The corduroy had light to medium brown ribs, although Dakota, above poster, has one with black corduroy.

In 1968 peacoats were manufactured with a white cotton lining, thus ending the reign of corduroy pockets. So, to answer your question, 1967 was the last year for the corduroy lining in the pockets. Part of the justification may have been that military men shouldn't have their hands in their pockets anyway!

________
*The coats with eight buttons showing (four rows of two buttons each) actually had two other regular size buttons hidden under the lapel, making them a ten button coat. I know, it gets confusing!

[Peacoat]

Please see the answer to your question under the "peacoat dating" topic.

[Dakota]

I looked at the pockets in the sunlight and thet are black corduroy. There is one just like it (except it is missing the tag) listed on ebay right now which is about to end. The ebay item # is 150073122921. Mine looks identical to it except mine has the tag still in it. I'm wondering how valuable they might be if indeed the black corduroy lined pocket one are very rare. Mine is a size 40 and is in very nice condition. It doesn't have any holes or rips. I found only two small moth nips in the wool which are barely noticable.

Dakota


The black corduroy in the pockets is very rare. I have never seen one. I wonder if you looked at the color in direct sunlight whether the color would be a very dark brown that appears to be black under low light conditions? If so, the explanation would be that the supplier of the corduroy got too much brown dye in the mix while manufacturing that particular batch of material. If it truly is black corduroy, then it is an anomaly that I can't explain. I would think that the contract would have been specific as to the color as well as the material used in the pockets.

The tag in your jacket is what I think of as a "transition" tag. It came after the "US NAVY" tag and the tags that have the dates in the contract number. There was only one year that such a tag was used, so it is easy to date. You have a 1966 model peacoat. There was a rapid buildup of forces during that period of time, so that may answer how the odd color of corduroy made it to the pockets of that particular coat. I have a 1966 peacoat, and I believe it has the standard brown corduroy in the pockets.

If you get a chance, and can find some sunlight, please let me know about the color of the pockets. It is something I can add to my knowledge bank on these pieces of history.

[Peacoat]

That black corduroy is certainly interesting. First one I have seen. His is probably the same year as yours. I really have no explanation for the black lining, other than a very rare occurrence in a short period of time. He advertised his coat as a WWII coat, and it obviously is a post war version. Thanks for the heads up on the auction; I got a photo of the pocket lining for my notes.

[Dakota]

I notice that alot of the ebay sellers say that the pea coat they have up for auction is WWII when in fact they are post war versions. I saw a WWI pea coat, at least that what I think it was, on ebay about a year ago. It had the buttons with the stars on them. The price it sold for was on up there.
How many vintage Naval pea coats do you own and what is the condition of them?


That black corduroy is certainly interesting. First one I have seen. His is probably the same year as yours. I really have no explanation for the black lining, other than a very rare occurrence in a short period of time. He advertised his coat as a WWII coat, and it obviously is a post war version. Thanks for the heads up on the auction; I got a photo of the pocket lining for my notes.

[Peacoat]

Dakota: I tried to send you a PM, but for some reason your PM feature is not activated. So, at the risk of being admonished for carrying on a private conversation, I will briefly answer your question on the open board. I have fourteen or so peacoats, plus a bridge coat. All are mint except the WWII coat, and it has a little wear. Took it in for repairs, and it came out real nice. Without a close inspection, you really don't see the wear. For some reason, the nicest finish is on the 1949 coat. It also has a slightly fuller fit than the others. Glad you like these original pieces of history.

[Dakota]

How do I activate the PM feature?


Dakota: I tried to send you a PM, but for some reason your PM feature is not activated. So, at the risk of being admonished for carrying on a private conversation, I will briefly answer your question on the open board. I have fourteen or so peacoats, plus a bridge coat. All are mint except the WWII coat, and it has a little wear. Took it in for repairs, and it came out real nice. Without a close inspection, you really don't see the wear. For some reason, the nicest finish is on the 1949 coat. It also has a slightly fuller fit than the others. Glad you like these original pieces of history.

[SamReu]

Friends, I have read these entries with keen interest. Based on what I've learned, one of the two peacoats I own is a '40s model -- it has the Naval Clothing Factory tag, flanked by anchors. I always suspected it was old when I found it at thrift store (I won't tell you what I paid for it).

The second coat has had its label removed, but is comparable to the other. Both, I've noticed, have stitching about 6 inches up from the end of the sleeves -- a sort of cuff, I guess. Later coats, I believe, do not have that. Can anyone shed any light on that?

[Peacoat]

Friends, I have read these entries with keen interest. Based on what I've learned, one of the two peacoats I own is a '40s model -- it has the Naval Clothing Factory tag, flanked by anchors. I always suspected it was old when I found it at thrift store (I won't tell you what I paid for it).

The second coat has had its label removed, but is comparable to the other. Both, I've noticed, have stitching about 6 inches up from the end of the sleeves -- a sort of cuff, I guess. Later coats, I believe, do not have that. Can anyone shed any light on that?

The tag you cited was also used in the fifties, but those were six button (showing) coats. The WWII models with that tag had eight buttons showing. Another tag used after the war and in the fifties said "Naval Clothing Depot." Many people think this is a WWII tag, but it is not. The easy way to distinguish the WWII coats from subsequent models is by the number of the buttons. If it doesn't have eight buttons showing (four rows of two buttons each side), it isn't WWII.

The WWII "Naval Clothing Factory" tag was revived in the fifties, and leads to confusion. These coats had six buttons, and are thus easy to distinguish from the WWII coats.

I think if you measure the stitching above the cuff, you will find it is something less than six inches. During WWII, there was a single line of stitching about three inches above the cuff (in addition to the stitching right at the cuff). After the war the stitching became two rows about three inches above the cuff (in addition to the stitching right at the cuff). The double stitching was in place up until 1965 (not sure it was used every year or not, but I think it was). I couldn't find my 1966 coat for a definitive answer, but I believe that was the year the stitching several inches above the cuff was discontinued. I know it was gone in 1967, and I believe that 1965 was the last year for any stitching, single or double rows.

From what you have said about the stitching and the tag, it sounds as if you have two WWII coats. If they have eight buttons showing, then they definitely are WWII. Hope this answers your question.

[Dakota]

Are the peacoats with the 10 buttons, 5 on each side, older than WWII or are they also WWII? I have two of those with 10 buttons, corduroy lined pockets, and the chin strap under neath the collar on one side.

Dakota

[52Styleline]

This thread motivated me go dig out my old peacoat which was issued to me in April of 1966. It has the white label, printed in black, no date, Kirsey wool. The pockets are corduroy lined. Mine has three buttons on each side. Since it was issued to me new,there is no question about its provenance.

I can verify the quality of the wool in this garment, as it kept me warm during some very cold weather. I subsequently received a commission and one of my regrets was that as an officer, I could no longer wear my trusty peacoat on duty. The officer's foul weather jacket (I still have one of those too) was never as satisfactory or as cozy.

[SamReu]

Peacoat:

I dug out one of the peacoats this morning after making my queries yesterday (4 January) about the stitching on the sleeves. True enough, the stitching is not 6 inches from the end of the sleeve; it's more like 4. It also was a single stitch, not double-stitched.
The coat I looked at featured six buttons showing, three on each side, with another two hidden under the collar. So I guess it's post-WWII. The one with the clothing tag is at my father's house, and I'll give it a good eyeballing when I go see him.
Thanks for your insights and expertise. Man, you can learn anything on this site!

[Peacoat]

Are the peacoats with the 10 buttons, 5 on each side, older than WWII or are they also WWII? I have two of those with 10 buttons, corduroy lined pockets, and the chin strap under neath the collar on one side.

Dakota

If you are describing eight buttons showing when the coat is buttoned, with two more hidden under the collar and the lapels, then it is WWII. I have never seen one with ten buttons showing. The chin strap was discontinued after the war.

[Peacoat]

This thread motivated me go dig out my old peacoat which was issued to me in April of 1966. It has the white label, printed in black, no date, Kirsey wool. The pockets are corduroy lined. Mine has three buttons on each side. Since it was issued to me new,there is no question about its provenance.

I can verify the quality of the wool in this garment, as it kept me warm during some very cold weather. I subsequently received a commission and one of my regrets was that as an officer, I could no longer wear my trusty peacoat on duty. The officer's foul weather jacket (I still have one of those too) was never as satisfactory or as cozy.

The 1966 coats are easy to date as that was the only year that particular tag was used. Starting in 1967 the year was coded in the contract number--DSA or DLA, so they are easy to date as well.

I would be interested to find out about the stitching, if any, about three inches above the cuff on your coat. I still haven't found my 1966 coat for a definitive answer. My wife may have given it away as she thinks I have too many, and knows that I can only wear one at a time!

[Asudef]

I was curious about the buttons; have they always used this style of button (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-10-WWII-NAVY-NAVAL-Sailor-Pea-Coat-Button-1-1-4_W0QQitemZ110075329892QQihZ001QQcategoryZ74708QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem), because they're the same as the new USN pea coats and to be honest, they look kind of cheap to me but the only other style I've seen are the gold or silver eagle buttons which I understand are used on officers coats?

[Peacoat]

I was curious about the buttons; have they always used this style of button (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-10-WWII-NAVY-NAVAL-Sailor-Pea-Coat-Button-1-1-4_W0QQitemZ110075329892QQihZ001QQcategoryZ74708QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem), because they're the same as the new USN pea coats and to be honest, they look kind of cheap to me but the only other style I've seen are the gold or silver eagle buttons which I understand are used on officers coats?

The earlier black buttons, perhaps pre WWII, had stars around the border of the button. They were made of a Bakelite material The border with the stars was subsequently discontinued, and the button as we know it today was instituted, perhaps at or near the beginning of WWII. The buttons of more recent origin (don't know the date, but would guess 50 to 60 years) are made of plastic.

The gold buttons are for officers and chiefs (senior and master). The black buttons are for the enlisted up to petty officer 1st class.

In the mid 70's, I don't have the exact year in front of me, the coats were issued with pewter (silver) buttons instead of black, during the tenure of Admiral Zumwalt. There was also an uniform change about then. These pewter buttons were similar to the gold buttons worn by officers and chiefs. The buttons were changed back to the standard black 1 1/4" in the mid to late 80's. I have the exact dates somewhere, but I have misplaced the notes on those particular buttons--maybe to never be found again. If you are interested, and if I find the notes, I will give you the dates.

Hope this told you more than you ever wanted to know about such an arcane subject as peacoat buttons!

[52Styleline]

I would be interested to find out about the stitching, if any, about three inches above the cuff on your coat. I still haven't found my 1966 coat for a definitive answer. My wife may have given it away as she thinks I have too many, and knows that I can only wear one at a time!

On the peacoat which was issued to me in 1966, there is a single row of stitching 3/4 inch from the end of the sleeve, and a double row of stitching 3 inches up from the end of the sleeve. The double rows are separated by 3/4 inch.

[Peacoat]

Thanks. That's good information I can file away and use when someone wants to date a coat that has no tag. I thought the double stitching had been discontinued a year earlier, but now I know differently.

[wetmarble]

This is a great thread. Just thought I would add this into the mix for fun's sake...

http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/82/37/ab2f_1.JPG

Found on a bridge coat and clearly dated during the war. Here's the ebay auction for the coat:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-US-Navy-Officer-CPO-Bridge-Pea-Coat-Uniform-40R_W0QQitemZ250069666003QQihZ015QQcategoryZ4729QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here are a few more labels:

World War 2:
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/7/8/7/6/9/webimg/31062029_o.jpg

Post War:
http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/82/ec/dd53_12.JPG

http://i22.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/81/dd/b7eb_12.JPG

[Peacoat]

I have never seen that first label before. I have noticed that the bridge coat labels are quite a bit different from the peacoats, and not even close to them in later years. Most of the ones I have seen have been Naval Academy labels. The one I have is not a standard military label at all, but obviously the bridge coat was made for a Naval Officer. As the bridge coats were purchased by the officers and chiefs, and not issued, there may not have been a contract let for them. I know that I purchased my own uniforms and flight jackets. Sometimes I purchased in the PX and sometimes direct from a private company.

The second and fourth labels probably are WWII due to the aging of the tags, but that particular label was revived in the fifties (probably just to confuse us 50+ years later!). If the coat has that tag and three buttons, it is a fifties model; with four buttons it is WWII.

The third label is definitely post war. Probably mid or late forties to early fifties. I have a 1949 coat with that same label.

Thanks for posting the pictures. One day I will take the time and figure out how to send a picture to photo bucket and then repost it here. Then I can post my own pictures of labels to illustrate what I am talking about.

[wetmarble]

The 1st and 2nd labels are definitely war time. (first is dated, second comes off an 8 buttons showing coat) The 3rd and 4th are both post war (coming off of coats with 6 buttons showing). I don't have enough examples to check, but I'm hypothosizing that war time "Naval Clothing Factory" labels have Name and Rate, where as post war "Naval Clothing Factory" labels have Name and Service Info. If anyone has coats with these labels and can chime in, please do.

On a side note, does anyone know when the neck strap was discontinued?

[Peacoat]

I will check some of my labels and coats in the next day or so to see if your hypothesis is correct. Hope I have enough examples to make a definitive statement one way or the other. And, for the sake of consistency, I hope it is true.

I believe the neck straps were discontinued after the war, probably when the six button coats were introduced. I have never seen a six button coat with a chin strap, and the WWII eight button versions all had the straps--at least the ones I have seen.

[wetmarble]

Well, here are 2 more WW2 coats that confirm my hypothesis. Too bad neither of them are my size. = (

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-2-Vintage-Naval-Military-Wool-Peacoat-Pea-Coat-Navy_W0QQitemZ300068528288QQihZ020QQcategoryZ52391 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Peacoat]

I couldn't find enough consistency in the pictures of the labels I have to confirm or deny your hypothesis. My gut feeling is that it is correct. I did find another interesting label that I had forgotten about. Tomorrow I will try to figure out how to post a picture using photo bucket and put it on the board.

[Peacoat]

Here is the tag I mentioned. Only one I have ever seen. The information with the jacket said a 1968 jacket, but I don't think so. It may have been left over from an earlier time, lost for a number of years, and then issued in 1968, but I just don't know.

To the poster (I believe it was Dakota) who asked why his PM feature wasn't activated, you must have 15 posts before this feature is active. Found that out by reading the FAQ section while getting directions for posting pictures.


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r285/bluesharp766/Issuedin1968--Dontthinkso.jpg

[Dakota]

From looking at the label, it has a date of 53 on it.

[wetmarble]

Here's another wartime label:

http://image.i-soldit.com/images/0164/101640004042/101640004042_08_06.jpg

This came off of a 8 button showing coat with a neck strap.

[Peacoat]

From looking at the label, it has a date of 53 on it.
The date wasn't included in the contract number until 1967, as best as I can determine. Although that tag does have the numbers "53," I doubt that it has any relevance to the date. I could be wrong, though.

My best guess on that particular tag is that it came after the revised "Naval Clothing Factory" tag of the mid to late 50's and before the "US NAVY' tag and only lasted a year or so. Sort of like the 1966 tag which only lasted one year (shown below).

The tag posted by Marble is one of the earliest I have seen. No telling when that was in service. Not many still around who are able to give us the answer. Thanks for the pic.


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r285/bluesharp766/1966.jpg

[wetmarble]

Here's a label I've never seen before. It comes off a post war (6 button showing) coat.

http://s156021008.onlinehome.us/ebaypics/10708b.jpg

It also supports my theory showing Name and Service No.

[Peacoat]

Now you are really confusing me! I thought I had seen all of the post war labels, but not so. Now that you have posted this label, it's your burden to find the year! I know what years it isn't; I just don't know what years it is.

[wetmarble]

Here are two more labels, both post war coats (6 buttons showing). My guess places both from 1965:

http://i18.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/84/78/72fb_1.JPG

http://i6.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/84/48/9bdb_1.JPG

[Peacoat]

Yes, that is a 1965 tag. That was the last year that particular tag was issued. Don't know when it was first used, however.

I have a coat with that tag that was issued to a buddy of mine in April, 1965. After he got out of the Navy in 1969, it hung in his closet for thirty six years until he gave it to me last year. Of them all, that is my favorite tag, and my favorite coat.

[Dakota]

Take a look at this ebay auction that ended yesterday. It was for a U.S. Coast Guard pea coat that looks identical to two WWII Navy pea coats I have. It has the 10 button front, corduroy lined pockets, and the chin strap.
ebay item # 270076734843. I was the high bidder for it.

Dakota

[Peacoat]

It's WWII alright. Looks like a nice coat at a great price. I don't find them priced like that this time of the year. Must be the warm weather we all are having!

[Dakota]

A WWII navy pea coat, identical to it, ended the day before it did and it sold for $60.00. I guess it just depends on who is watching the auctions and also like you said the warm weather may be playing a part in the low prices. I couldn't believe I got that Coast Guard pea coat for so little.

[wetmarble]

I saw that coat and considered bidding on it. (Now I'm glad I didn't, I'd have hated to make a bidding war with you Dakota) Ultimately, I decided against bidding because it looked like a 40R and I think I need a 42R.

When the coat arrives, please post a picture of the label.

[Dakota]

I will and I'll take measurements and let you know the approximate size. I was thinking too that it was about a 40.

[wetmarble]

Here's another 'Clothing Supply Office' Tag...
http://users.adelphia.net/~ko6oy/ebay/450army1.jpg

Front view of the coat:
http://users.adelphia.net/~ko6oy/ebay/450army.jpg

Note the double stitching on the sleeve. It has corduroy pockets. I'm guessing this is a late 50s coat.

[wetmarble]

Here's another 1965 label with a different contract number:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/usnDA-36-243-QMCTM11460-C-62.jpg
DA-36-243-QM(CTM) 11460-C-62

[Peacoat]

When I size a peacoat for the chest measurement, I get the measurement across the chest, with the coat on a flat surface , and directly under the armpits. I double that measurement and subtract two inches (for the inside material). For instance, a coat that measures 21" across the chest would be a size 40. That's the best way I have found to get a fairly accurate indication of the chest size.

[KristaM]

This thread caught my eye while I was scouring the internet for replacement buttons. My bridge coat seems so much different than anything described so far. I found a tag on the inside with the original owner and the date 8-12-42. The tag also identifies the manufacturer as Julius Horowitt. The coat is definitely black - blacker than any article of clothing I could find. It is also fully lined in black satin and the lining is not removable. It also has two black braided embellishments about 3 inches above the sleeve cuffs. The buttons are a challenge. They have an eagle holding an anchor with 3 cannon balls below the anchor and 13 stars surrounding the image. The back of buttons have "Vanguard Corp. New York" stamped on the back. I have been able to find similar Waterbury and Superior buttons, but no Vanguard. I rescued this coat from my sister and it is missing the 2 buttons underneath the collar. I'm not sure if they were missing when she picked it up at the thrift store or if she lost them herself. I have searched online for these particular buttons to no avail. I was hoping someone on here might have an idea.

One more quick question - This coat has several tears in the lining, but all of them appear to be along the seam where the thread has just given up. I can't seem to find another coat with the same characteristics online and am trying to determine if it is worth repairing or if I should just get a new one? This is by far the warmest coat I have ever owned. It kept me warm through a couple Minnesota winters.

[Peacoat]

I am a bit confused with your characterization of the coat as a "bridge coat." A bridge coat is longer than a peacoat and falls just below the knees. They are normally worn by officers and chiefs. Is this the type of coat you have?

A peacoat will fall just below the butt when properly fitted. On a female, it might be to mid thigh, but certainly not to the knees.

When you say "embellishments," are you describing two rows of stitching, or something more than simple stitching? If these are braids, not stitching, and if the color is truly black (see below), it could be that it is some type of ceremonial coat, and not the standard issue.*

The color you have described doesn't equate to what I know about the WWII coats. If you take your coat outside and compare it to a known black object, the coat should appear to be dark, dark blue.

I got out my bridge coat and looked at the buttons. They are identical to what you describe. I also looked at one of my peacoats (1980 model) with the pewter buttons. They are also identical to what you describe. This tells me that even though your coat is WWII, the buttons for it were still being used until recently, and I believe are still in production. They should be available on ebay every now and then. Do a general search for "buttons" and then narrow it based on what you find.

Have your coat repaired. It doesn't cost much and is simple to do. I had my WWII peacoat lining repaired, and it is like new.

Please let me know about the color and the length, so I will know what we are dealing with.

_____
*Officers' coats aren't actually "issued," but are purchased by the officer from an authorized source. Thus, the private labels in the officers' coats. For instance my dress blues are by Lautersteins in San Antonio, and my dress blue hat is by Ace Manufacturing, also in San Antonio. The labels in these items are civilian labels and not the standard military issue labels that we are so familiar with.

[Dakota]

Where abouts was your lining damaged? How did the seamstress repair it? I have one that has what I consider to be minor damage - it has a small tear in it, thta I would like to get fixed.

Dakota

Have your coat repaired. It doesn't cost much and is simple to do. I had my WWII peacoat lining repaired, and it is like new.



_____

[Peacoat]

Where abouts was your lining damaged? How did the seamstress repair it? I have one that has what I consider to be minor damage - it has a small tear in it, thta I would like to get fixed.

Dakota

_____

The lining was ripped in a couple of places, both at a seam and in the back where there was no seam, as I remember. She just stitched it up, with a machine, I believe. I looked at it when I picked it up, but haven't really looked at it since. I remember thinking that she did a great job. She also repaired the collar where there was wear. Did a good job there also. Best to get small rips repaired before they become big ones.

[KristaM]

My coat is a bridge coat. It's almost 50 inches from collar to hem and rests about mid-calf on me. I'm about 95% sure that it is black. It's been very cloudy and rainy lately so I'll look again the next time it's sunny.

The embellishments are flat braiding. I'll take a picture this weekend and post it. They blend so well that you can't really see them if you are more than 4 feet away. The one closest to the sleeve is about a half inch wide and the one about 1/8 inch above that is about 1/4 inch thick.

I did a little searching for Julius Horowitt and could only find that he was a naval and civilian tailor in the 40s.

Thanks for the info on the buttons. I did find that Vanguard still issues these buttons with shoulder marks, so I'll just keep my eye out or call them directly.

[Peacoat]

Yes, please check the color and let me know. I hope that it is very dark blue, then the pieces of the puzzle will come together. What you are describing on the sleeves may well be a rank indicator for an officer. If I remember correctly 1 1/2 stripes indicate a Lieutenant junior grade or O-2. Sounds like you have a nice bridge coat worn by a Lieutenant in WWII. A picture of the stripes would be helpful to confirm my hypothesis

[wetmarble]

More label action!

This time from an officer's coat:
http://i21.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/85/d0/6269_12.JPG

Full image of the coat:
http://i22.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/85/d0/5f14_3.JPG

Also here's another tidbit I picked up on officer's buttons:

The buttons prior to the 1940 have the eagle looking to the right, the buttons post 1940 have the eagle looking to the left.

This is of course unconfirmed, but worth investigating.

[wetmarble]

Ooo, here's an interesting article on the early history of the Naval Uniform... http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/uniform_button.htm

Unfortunately, it doesn't talk about pea coats, but I still found it a nice read.

[wetmarble]

And here's another page documenting the various changes to naval uniforms from 1797 to 1947

http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/uniforms.htm

[Michaelson]

I have my Dad's peacoat that was issued to him during WW2 when he was on a destroyer during the war. My Mom had to reline it (as the original lining had completely fallen out of the jacket), and I wore it through college until I noticed the thread of the relining job was pulling out of the old wool. I decided it was time to retire the jacket, as I didn't want it to completely fall apart from wear and tear of daily use.

It's now safely stored in our cedar chest in our bedroom. I'll have to take it out and look at it soon, as it's been a while since I've seen it. In retrospect, I can honestly say it was the most comfortable coat I've ever worn, and I wore it in the harshest of Columbus, Ohio winters...and I'm still puzzled why I've never purchased a replacement.

Regards! Michaelson

[Peacoat]

I have my Dad's peacoat that was issued to him during WW2 when he was on a destroyer during the war. My Mom had to reline it (as the original lining had completely fallen out of the jacket), and I wore it through college until I noticed the thread of the relining job was pulling out of the old wool. I decided it was time to retire the jacket, as I didn't want it to completely fall apart from wear and tear of daily use.

It's now safely stored in our cedar chest in our bedroom. I'll have to take it out and look at it soon, as it's been a while since I've seen it. In retrospect, I can honestly say it was the most comfortable coat I've ever worn, and I wore it in the harshest of Columbus, Ohio winters...and I'm still puzzled why I've never purchased a replacement.

Regards! Michaelson


Yes, that coat needs to stay retired. And you should buy a replacement; there is still a lot of Ohio winter left to be had this year. When you get a chance, please post a picture of the label, and let us know the date he went in the Navy, or was issued the coat, if you can find it out.


PS Just noticed you are now in Tennessee, so there is still a lot of Tennessee winter to be had this year, as we really haven't had any yet.

[Peacoat]

To Wetmarble: The officer's coat you posted was worn by a Lieutenant, junior grade, if I remember my ranks. The star above the stripes indicate that he was on command track, as opposed to working in a staff position. That is, he would be in consideration for command of his own boat or ship as he rose in rank. A staff officer would not be on track for command of a ship, although he would be on track for shore command. I believe that is the way it goes.

The tags in the officers' coats are different as officers are responsible for buying their own uniforms. That particular jacket would be worn for standard office duty, and perhaps for shipboard duty. In the Army we would call that uniform our "greens." Obviously in the Navy the uniform isn't green, so it may be called "blues." There is a lot about the Navy uniforms I don't know.

Perhaps if KristaM comes back to this board, she could compare the stripes on the sleeves of the coat above and see how the stripes on her bridge coat compare to the posted picture.

The links you posted contain a lot of information. Haven't had a chance to look at all of it yet. Hope to get to it tomorrow. Thanks for taking the time.

[Michaelson]

PS Just noticed you are now in Tennessee, so there is still a lot of Tennessee winter to be had this year, as we really haven't had any yet.


Boy, isn't THAT the plain truth. Had some heavy frost this morning, but other than that, it's been one mild winter so far.

I don't even remember what tag is still in there, or if Mom left it in. I'll have to take a look when I have time this weekend.

Oh, he went in the Navy in 1943 at the age of 16, so it is a 1943 issue peacoat. He was on a destroyer that patrolled the Atlantic seacoast between NYC and Havana.

Regards! Michaelson

[wetmarble]

Here's a tag I haven't seen...

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/sanjas/jo1b.jpg

This comes off of a ww2 coat with 8 buttons showing that has another Naval Clothing Factory label (Name and Rate)

[Dakota]

I have a 10 button one that has that tag and the tag is in good shape too.

QUOTE=wetmarble]Here's a tag I haven't seen...

http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/sanjas/jo1b.jpg

This comes off of a ww2 coat with 8 buttons showing that has another Naval Clothing Factory label (Name and Rate)[/QUOTE]

[Peacoat]

When you say 10 buttons, I am assuming you have 8 buttons showing? Please post a picture of the tag.

[Dakota]

I think it shows all 10 but I will have to double check. I will try to get a picture posted of the tag and the coat this weekend.


When you say 10 buttons, I am assuming you have 8 buttons showing? Please post a picture of the tag.

[Dakota]

I just won the ebay auction for this Navy bridge coat. Item # 190074780008. I tried for this one (item # 250069666003) but was outbid. The labels look identical.

Dakota

[Peacoat]

Nice coat. The labels are not consistent with what we would expect to see in the peacoats of those years (1942 and 1955). My only explanation is that these are officers coats. Officers buy their own uniforms which come from approved manufacturers. A manufacturer might use the same label for many years as the manufacturer is not doing strict contract work. It can be most confusing until you realize that the labels in the enlisted coats are entirely different from the labels in the privately purchased officers' coats.

These labels won't aid in the dating game as they aren't synonymous with the peacoat labels. Now that I have solved that problem, I can get to sleep tonight!

[wetmarble]

I'm so excited! I just won the auction on this WW2 officer's coat: ebay 140077379610

When it arrives, I'll post more pictures.

[wetmarble]

Ok, here's something new in the label game:

I found a listing on ebay of a coat issued in October, 1962 to a sailor. I asked him about the label on the inside since it wasn't pictured and he responded saying it read the following:

US NAVY - DA-36-243QM(CTM)11459-9-62 - Size 38R

So we now know that the US NAVY labels were not 1 year only and that they have some form of dating going on sometimes. If I had to guess, I'd say that 9-62 refers to a Sept 1962 manufacture date. In the above label, I'd Guess C meant December.

[Peacoat]

That is a very nice coat. If it were one size larger, I would be kicking myself for not finding it.

Good information to know about the "US NAVY" label going back at least to 1962. I felt that it was for more than one year, but could never pin it down like you have.

I'm still not convinced that the year was embedded at the end of the contract number on this particular label, but it may well have been. Hopefully it was, as that makes the job easier and much more specific.

I just remembered that I have an April 1965 "US NAVY" coat in my bedroom closet. I will check the numbers on it if I can do so without waking my wife. I'll give her a few more minutes to be sound asleep before I go ratting around in my closet.

Just checked the coat; no match on the contract number. Different series of numbers. Probably I would have noticed a long time ago if there had been a "65" at the end of the string of numbers. I will post a picture of the label in the next day or so, if I can remember to do so.

That doesn't mean that the date was not encoded on prior year "US NAVY" tags, however. There is still a lot that we have to learn.

[Peacoat]

After my last post, I remembered that I had some other coats with "US NAVY" tags squirreled away. I found three of them. One tag was too faded to be read, another followed the same pattern as the 1965 coat--as discussed above, and the last had at the end of the tag the designation "C-61" This adds credence to your theory that some of those tags were date coded. It would be consistent with a 1961 coat. Unfortunately I don't have the history of these coats, so I can't confirm or deny the theory.

After some checking, I did find the history of the C-61 coat. The history is consistent with late fifties or early to mid sixties, but we already knew that from the tag. So, not much was learned from the history. I do like your theory, though; it gives us a good working hypothesis. Like you, I'm betting the C-61 coat in my closet was issued in 1961.

[Dakota]

I was thinking about bidding on that coat too. Please post some pics of it when you receive it.


I'm so excited! I just won the auction on this WW2 officer's coat: ebay 140077379610

When it arrives, I'll post more pictures.

[wetmarble]

My coat came today.

Unfortunately, it is not what was pictured in the auction. Instead of being a WW2 coat, it was a post war coat. :cry:

Anyway, here are some pics. (The label came out fuzzy. I'll try to retake it.)

Label, US NAVY, indicates a date of December 1958
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/DSC03421.jpg

Front
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/DSC03422.jpg

Front with collar up
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/DSC03424.jpg

Buttons
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/DSC03425.jpg

[Dakota]

What is the condition of the coat? You could resale it on ebay.

[wetmarble]

The coat is immaculate aside from a faint aroma of storage.

I've contacted the seller and she's willing to give me a full refund including shipping. It's just disappointing, because I wanted the coat to be what was pictured.

[green papaya]

The coat is immaculate aside from a faint aroma of storage.

I've contacted the seller and she's willing to give me a full refund including shipping. It's just disappointing, because I wanted the coat to be what was pictured.

thats a nice peacoat

1958 would be correct for a Navy SEALs coat, because that would be the time frame of the SEAL TEAM ONE circa 1962

the auction is listed in the Korean war era, but the description is accurate, she didnt say it was used during the Korean war, she said it belonged to a Navy SEAL, so that would indicate 1962 or later, because they didnt have SEALs during the Korean war, but they had UDT

she should have listed it in the Vietnam War era category, but she probably didnt know the exact date of manufacture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140077379610&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/140077379610_W0QQcatrefZC5QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQflocZ1QQ fposZ95961QQfromZR6QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfssZ 0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaffZafdefau ltQQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQsacurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsa rgnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsspagenam eZhQ3ahQ3aadvsearchQ3aUSQQfviZ1

[Peacoat]

I would keep the coat. You got a good price on it. No, it's not WWII as pictured, but it is an excellent coat. This coat belonged to a Chief Petty Officer. Keep the coat.

[patrick1987]

That's one nice coat. You should keep it.

[wetmarble]

Ok,

Here's a summary of what I believe to be true so far...

Labels
Naval Clothing Factory with Name and Rate (confirmed for 1947 and earlier)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/navalclothingfactory-ww2.jpg

Naval Clothing Factory with Name and Service No. (1952 based on ebay seller who is original owner dating)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/naval_clothing_factory-postwar.jpg

Clothing Supply Office (type 1) (Dec, 1953 based on Contract Number through 1957 based on ebay seller who is wife of original owner dating)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/csoTAP-395-OI-455-C-53.jpg

Clothing Supply Office (type 2) (unconfirmed dates)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/cso2.jpg

Naval Clothing Depot (unconfirmed dates)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/naval_clothing_depot.jpg

US NAVY (Dec, 1958 based on Contract Number through 1965)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/usnQMCTM-1721OI-758-C-58.jpg

COAT, MAN'S, WOOL; KERSEY DARK BLUE (confirmed for 1966-1968+)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/1966.jpg

[wetmarble]

Contract Numbers
N (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 2 labels)
TAP in use during 1953 (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 1 labels and Clothing Depot Labels)
QM in use during 1958 (seen on US NAVY labels)
DA in use during 1962 (seen on Clothing Supply Office - type 2 labels and US NAVY labels)
DSA in use from 1961 to 1977
DLA in use from 1978 to present

[wetmarble]

Buttons
World War 2 coats have 10 buttons on the front (8 showing), 2 small buttons on the left collar and 1 small button on the right collar
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/ncf-frontcollarup.jpghttp://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/ww2officer.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/ww2-frontcollardown.jpg

Post World War 2 coats have 7 or 8 buttons on the front (6 showing) and no small buttons
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/naval_clothing_depot-frontcollardow.jpghttp://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/naval_clothing_depot-frontcollarup.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/usn-frontcollardown.jpg

Chief Petty Officers have gold buttons, buttons prior to the 1940 have the eagle looking to the right, the buttons post 1940 have the eagle looking to the left.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/DSC03425.jpg

Coats were issued with pewter buttons

Originally Posted by Peacoat
In the mid 70's, I don't have the exact year in front of me, the coats were issued with pewter (silver) buttons instead of black, during the tenure of Admiral Zumwalt. There was also an uniform change about then. These pewter buttons were similar to the gold buttons worn by officers and chiefs. The buttons were changed back to the standard black 1 1/4" in the mid to late 80's.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/DLA100-81-C-3246pewterbuttons.jpg


Stitching
World War 2 coats have a single line of stitching above the sleeve
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/ncfsleeve.jpg

Post World War 2 coats have a double line of stitching above the sleeve

Originally Posted by 52Styleline
On the peacoat which was issued to me in 1966, there is a single row of stitching 3/4 inch from the end of the sleeve, and a double row of stitching 3 inches up from the end of the sleeve. The double rows are separated by 3/4 inch.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/cso-side.jpg

[wetmarble]

Neck Strap
The neck strap is a small piece of wool buttoned on to the left side of the collar with two small buttons that can be used to secure the neck closure by buttoning it to another button on the right side of the collar. It is found on World War 2 era coats

Pockets
Exterior pockets were lined with tan or black corduroy through 1967. Starting in 1968 they were lined with white cotton. The black corduroy is very rare, and I have only seen it on coats manufactured in 1966.

There are usually 2 inside pockets, but sometimes only 1.

Wool
Wool is either 32oz Kersey wool or 24oz Melton wool.

Melton wool was used as early as 1974
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/drdrae/Peacoats/DSA100-74-C-1291.jpg

[Peacoat]

Excellent job, Wetmarble.

A few comments:
1. Although the double row of stitching 3" above the cuff was definitely a post war trait, I have seen one 1950s coat that only had one row of stitching in that location. 1966 was the last year for double stitching, or any stitching, as far as I have been able to tell. My post 1966 coats have no stitching, double or single, 3" above the cuff, only the stitching right at the cuff.

2. The designation of "Kersey" and "Melton" is tricky. I believe this was conceived as a way to confuse peacoat daters who would come along thirty or so years in the future. What I refer to as the old style wool was used until 1979. Many refer to this as "Kersey" wool. In 1980 the fabric was changed to a "Melton" type wool. The color was also changed from a very dark "midnight" blue to a true black. Until 1980 all coats were manufactured with the old style wool, whether they were labeled as Kersey or Melton. The 1974 coat you have pictured is labeled as Melton. Even though it is labeled as such, it is most assuredly an old style wool fabric. As I stated earlier, this type of labeling was used so we would be confused by which material was actually used in the coat. If we had the coat in front of us, there would be no confusion, as the material is definitely the old style, even though it is labeled as a Melton.

3. The label that you pictured: Coat, Man's Wool, Kersey, DSA **** (1966--1968+) Was only used in 1966. A similar tag was used starting in 1967, but the date was included in the contract number. This distinguishes the 1966 tag from the subsequent years using a similar tag.

Thanks for all of the work. Unfortunately these pictures won't stay up long, as they will be removed after a period of time, and only the text will remain.

[wetmarble]

The pictures are all hosted on my photobucket account, so they'll stick around. Also, I may at some point organize all of this a little better and build a web page for dating pea coats, as there doesn't seem to be any resources available for it at this time on the web.

I know the 1966 label was a one off, but the labels following it are of a similar type for at least a few years, the only difference being the contract number. My interest in dating the coats fades somewhat after 1967 because the reason I got interested in all of this was that I wanted a peacoat with corduroy pockets. However, if I can unearth more information about labels and later years, I will certainly post it.

[quote]Originally Posted by Peacoat
The first contractor to manufacture the new coats was Vi-Mil, Inc. I can't remember if they are still in business, but I did know that at one time. The current contract holder is SterlingWear of Boston, which makes an excellent "new" peacoat.[/b]

Based on my ebay forays, there seem to be a multitude of labels in more recent years, and I'm guessing there may be more than one Navy Authorized manufacturer. I know that my current peacoat was manufactured in 2001 and is official navy issue. (I say this because of the sailor's name and service number stenciled into the coat) However, there is no mention of SterlingWear or Vi-Mil anywhere on the label.

My only hope is that the ebayers don't raise their prices once they know what they are actually selling. heh.

[Peacoat]

What I meant by the pictures not staying around long is that they will be removed from this board after a period of time, evidently because of the space they consume.

I got interested in all of this because I wanted to replace the peacoat my brother in law gave me when he got out of the Navy. I wore it during my last year of college and through law school. I then then changed to an overcoat to go with the suits after graduation. Still wore it some on the weekends when casual. Over the years that coat got away from me, and a year or so ago I got another. It seemed to be a different texture wool, so I got into the research of why it was different. Shortly after buying that first replacement coat, I felt something lead me to where the original coat had been hiding for many years. I looked, and there it was!

Fifteen or so coats later, and I have a pretty good knowledge of the dating of these old pieces of history from WWII to current.

Doing a Web page sounds like a good idea. I will be glad to help you out, if you want any help.

[wetmarble]

I'll gladly accept any help.

The hard part is going to be figuring out how to structure it and getting similar photos of coats from different years. I think the structure I outlined above is decent.

Labels
Contract Numbers
Button Types
Button Configurations
Stitching
Miscellaneous (Neck Strap, Pocket Lining, Wool Type)

I have a bunch of label pictures, but not so many pictures of coats for each year / era. Also you mentioned that you have notes on contract numbers, any info you have would be greatly appreciated.

I'll start putting something together and post a link here.

[Peacoat]

Send me a PM with your email address so we don't clutter up this thread/board. Not everyone is enamored of peacoats; most of them like the leather!

[Dakota]

I've been enjoying reading all of this information on the peacoats. It is quite educational. I collect them too.

Dakota

[sherridtn]

Just purchased a peacoat and was wondering if someone could help me date it. I know its post 1980 from what I read on this forum but not sure of the exact year. Heres the tag info:

OVERCOAT, MAN'S, ENLISTED (100% WOOL)
CONTRACT NO: DLA100-80-C-3335
STOCK NO: 8405-01-082-3542
SIZE: 34R
NAME OF CONTRACTOR: VI-MIL, INC.

[wetmarble]

Based on the contract, your coat was manufactured in 1980

[Peacoat]

And your coat is the first year of the truly black coats with the "Melton" wool. If the buttons haven't been replaced, you still have the original pewter buttons on your coat.

I also have a 1980 coat, and it's a good coat. Hard to find an issue peacoat that isn't a good coat!

[wetmarble]

I found some new information:

Source: http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/uniform_master_list.htm

Peacoat button configuration change:

A new convertible-type collar, permitting men to open the collar at the throat, is an alteration of the enlisted men's overcoat.

To insure a neat appearance, the old style overcoat may be worn open at the throat with two buttons unbuttoned, producing the same general effect as one button unbuttoned in the new style coat. Overcoats may be worn buttoned at the neck or CO's may prescribe that mode for military formations and other functions.
...
Source: "Uniform Changes Listed: Peacoat Will Get New Convertible Collar." All Hands. 375 (May 1948)"

Peacoat button type change:

As a move to make the peacoat more compatible with the new service dress blue uniform, the Navy is now requiring men to change the black plastic buttons to silver oxidized buttons.
...
The changeover to the silver buttons for the peacoat will be required by 1 Jul 1975.

[Peacoat]

Wet Marble: That's good information to know. My information was that it was later, perhaps 1977.

Did you get my email?

[Jovan]

Slightly :offtopic:, but does anyone own a Sterlingwear 100% wool pea coat? They have what they call an eight button style there (which also has a better, stand up collar), but I'm wondering if there's two extra buttons hidden to fasten it all the way up. Thanks.

[Peacoat]

Slightly :offtopic:, but does anyone own a Sterlingwear 100% wool pea coat? They have what they call an eight button style there (which also has a better, stand up collar), but I'm wondering if there's two extra buttons hidden to fasten it all the way up. Thanks.

I think I have an eight button Sterlingwear squirreled away somewhere, but I will have to wait until tomorrow to find it. Will let you know then if it is Sterlingwear and the button configuration.

[Dakota]

I have a Sterlingwear peacoat that is 100% wool. It is actual military issue. I think from the DLA # the date is either 88 or 90. I don't have it in front of me at the moment but I will look later. I purchased it new from someone in the Navy. It is a very nice coat and warm too. It has 3 buttons on one side and 4 on the other, with one of those button being near the collar.

Dakota

[wetmarble]

Hey Peacoat, ya, I got your email, but I've been absolutely slammed at work the last few days. I'll write back tomorrow, gotta get to sleep now though.

[Peacoat]

Slightly :offtopic:, but does anyone own a Sterlingwear 100% wool pea coat? They have what they call an eight button style there (which also has a better, stand up collar), but I'm wondering if there's two extra buttons hidden to fasten it all the way up. Thanks.

I found my Sterlingwear. The designation is M22. It is not 100% wool, but 80% and is not military issue. It has eight buttons down the front, plus two more hidden under the collar to button the front of the coat up against the throat. Seldom are these buttons actually used because it is easier and warmer to wear a scarf.

A few months ago I gave my 1992 Navy issue Sterlingwear to a friend of mine. It was a six button coat, though, and I don't remember specifically about the buttons under the collar. Although, all of the six button coats I have seen have either one or two buttons under the collar so the collar can be buttoned up tight in windy and cold conditions. Only one button can be used, and that is under the right collar.

I looked at my WWII eight button coat, and it has two more buttons hidden under the collar.

I would think that the coat you are looking at does have the two (or perhaps one) additional buttons hidden under the collar. I will see if I can find a picture of what you are looking at to confirm it.

[Peacoat]

I found the eight button Sterlingwear "Classic" and the "Mariner," in 100% wool, and would be willing to bet that both of them have one or two buttons under the collar to keep the coat close to the throat when windy or cold.

If you don't want to try and find an issue peacoat, and don't care about having the "old" style smooth wool, then the Sterlingwear civilian model is currently the best available, based on what I have read and seen.

[wetmarble]

Navy Issue peacoats are ALL over ebay at a far better price than you can get them elsewhere. Just be sure to ask for all of your measurements before buying.

[wetmarble]

Here's a nice officer's coat that just sold on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180083631813&rd=1&rd=1

[Jovan]

I found the eight button Sterlingwear "Classic" and the "Mariner," in 100% wool, and would be willing to bet that both of them have one or two buttons under the collar to keep the coat close to the throat when windy or cold.

If you don't want to try and find an issue pea coat, and don't care about having the "old" style smooth wool, then the Sterlingwear civilian model is currently the best available, based on what I have read and seen.
Thank you so much! This is what I come here for; you guys are really helpful and knowledgeable.

I don't really mind if it's not military issue. I was, in fact, looking at the Mariner. :) I mostly like its look since I saw that eight button (or rather, 8x4) older style pea coat in this thread.

My current pea coat doesn't button quite as neatly as those eight button ones I've seen, either. It's also 73% wool, 27% nylon... I've now become a stickler for 100% natural fibres. The last strike against it is that it doesn't close both ways. Clearly not military issue at all, but they say you get what you pay for!

As for those who prefer to wear a scarf, so do I. It's just nice to have that feature in case, though.

[green papaya]

I prefer the non military issue pea coats, they are not as heavy as military issue, and they feel more comfortable and have a fuller cut, with more freedom of movement.

I tried one of the imported pea coats made in Cambodia and it fit me better than the military issue pea coat

[bpc]

Gents,

I've enjoyed reading through the past couple years of this thread. It's been helpful in telling me lots that I didn't already know about Naval jackets.

In the spirit of fine outerwear, I figured I'd share a recent thrift-store find of mine:


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6682/dscn3922tt7.jpg

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/101/dscn3924jp1.jpg

As a few of you have noted, this officer's (or Academy?) bridge coat was made by a commercial manufacturer, so the tag is a little different. Still, I imagine that the '68' in there means 1968?

Whatever its roots, it's a great coat, and certainly a great $10 find.

[Jovan]

$10? Holy crap, even if it were an 80/20 modern one, it'd be a steal! My size, too.

[Peacoat]

Yes, it is a 1968 coat with the thick dark midnight blue wool, I imagine. Is it a long coat, say about the length of an overcoat, or is it shorter, like a regular peacoat that comes to just below the butt?

If it is a long coat, then it is a bridge coat for officers. If it is peacoat length, then it is a chief's coat (both officers and chiefs wear gold buttons).

I just went back and looked at the shoulders. There are epaulets there for the shoulder boards, so it is a long officer's bridge coat. Odd, because I haven't seen that type of tag on the bridge coats. Most of the bridge coat tags that I have seen are more "commercial" looking than that tag. But then, bridge coats are not my specialty.

Does it have a zip out lining? Many of them do. Mine does, or rather it did, and unfortunately the lining is permanently zipped out (lost somewhere on the high seas).

Even if you had paid five times that amount for the coat, you would still have gotten a good deal.

[bpc]

Is it a long coat, say about the length of an overcoat, or is it shorter, like a regular peacoat that comes to just below the butt?

Does it have a zip out lining? Many of them do. Mine does, or rather it did, and unfortunately the lining is permanently zipped out (lost somewhere on the high seas).


As you noted by the epaulets, it's indeed a long coat, going down to about my knees.

As far as a lining goes, there is not one now, nor does there seem to have been one before (e.g. no zipper for a liner to zip into). There are a couple spare pieces inside, though. One little buttoned flap on the left hip (saber hole, maybe?) and an extra little 3-inch diamond-ended piece of removable fabric buttoned inside the right side. Not sure about that one.


Everyone who's posted in this thread should give yourselves a pat on the back for saving this coat. When I got it, I knew nothing about Naval coats and was ready to replace those gorgeous Waterbury buttons with some black plastic ones (to the extent that I actually went out and bought buttons and black thread), so I could have an all black winter coat. Thankfully, I decided to look on the Net for a little info about the coat before I got the scissors out, and I stumbled across this thread. After reading how into these great coats you fellows are, there is no way that I'd mess with it. Thanks for opening my eyes.

[Peacoat]

Glad you found the forum and saved the coat!

[Jovan]

Here's a piccy of my current pea coat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/Jovan/peacoat.jpg

I was feeling a bit like Captain Morgan that day.

[Peacoat]

Jovan, looks like a size 38?

Below is a picture of the 1965 tag that I discussed last week. Note the absence of any date coding as was shown in the "US NAVY" tags that were posted a while back. This US Navy tag was used from 1959, or the early sixties to 1965. Some of the earlier versions had the date coded in the tag.


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r285/bluesharp766/1965Tag-1.jpg

[Marc Chevalier]

Here's the strangest WWII-era peacoat I've ever come across. The cloth is very fuzzy, sort of like steel wool. I've never seen anything like it.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/Spoon253.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/Spoon257.jpg


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/Spoon261.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/IMG_1584_edited-1.jpg

[Jovan]

Jovan, looks like a size 38?
What?

[Peacoat]

What?

The peacoat you posted a picture of looks like a size 38.

[Peacoat]

[QUOTE=Marc Chevalier]Here's the strangest WWII-era peacoat I've ever come across. The cloth is very fuzzy, sort of like steel wool. I've never seen anything like it.


Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label? Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed. The stencil on the inside of the coat certainly seems to be in very good shape, however. Though the information stenciled on the coat is not the standard name and service number. Also, I noted that the inside lining is not the shiny rayon type nylon seen in peacoats prior to 1980, but is more of heavy cotton fabric.

We probably won't solve this riddle anytime soon!

[Jovan]

Well, I guess it COULD be considered a 38. That's my size. However, it merely is labeled as "M" since it's not in any way official. Give three guesses to where I got it.

[Dakota]

I have a WWII Coast Guard peacoat that has that type of lining; it's not the shiny type like on other WWII or older peacoats. But the wool is more smooth.


Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label? Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed. The stencil on the inside of the coat certainly seems to be in very good shape, however. Though the information stenciled on the coat is not the standard name and service number. Also, I noted that the inside lining is not the shiny rayon type nylon seen in peacoats prior to 1980, but is more of heavy cotton fabric.

We probably won't solve this riddle anytime soon![/QUOTE]

[wetmarble]

It could also be a much earlier coat than WW2. I'm not sure when exactly they changed the buttons after WW1, although I did see a 1920s era coat on ebay recently that had the newer style buttons.

[Jovan]

A friend of mine has a Soviet Union issued overcoat that has a very course wool fabric like that. I'll try to find out what year it's from so we can get a decent comparison of when these guys were around at the very least.

[Marc Chevalier]

Strange indeed. Do you have a picture of the label?

Unfortunately, no. When I found the coat, the label had either fallen off or been removed. I could still see where it had been.



Could be that over time, and with improper cleaning methods, the wool degraded to the finish that you observed.

No, the wool had been fuzzy from the beginning. The coat was in excellent, practically mint condition, and the cloth was quite thick -- about 50% thicker than the standard pea coat cloth. In short, it was manufactured as fuzzy: imagine a mixture of straight, short-fibered mohair and curly-fibered boiled wool (Loden).


The coat had 10 front buttons and a throat latch. The lining was a slightly waxy, thick cotton twill. The pockets were lined with tan, narrow-wale corduroy. Everything points to this pea coat being from the World War II era.


The mystery continues ... [huh]


.

[wetmarble]

My other theory is that it could be a cold weather peacoat. I know that they produced heavier peacoats for Northern Climates like the North sea, perhaps this is one of those?

[Marc Chevalier]

My other theory is that it could be a cold weather peacoat.

Bet you're right. The address stenciled on the lining says, "Great Lakes, Illinois." It doesn't get colder and windier than that!


.

[Peacoat]

Bet you're right. The address stenciled on the lining says, "Great Lakes, Illinois." It doesn't get colder and windier than that!


.

Great Lakes is, and has been, the location of Navy Boot Camp, so it doesn't surprise me that the coat has that stenciled on the lining. What does surprise me is that someone's name is not stenciled on the lining. The wording seems to be more generic as if the coat had been assigned to a company or a building. Have never seen that on a lining before. The mystery continues.

[Marc Chevalier]

That's true, there is no individual's name on the lining or anywhere else. [huh]


I guess, then, that "U.S.N.T.G." stands for "United States Navy Training Ground"?


.

[Peacoat]

I would think that would be close. "Naval" instead of "Navy" would be more accurate. Not sure what the "G" stands for, but "Ground" is as good a guess as any. Could be "Group" as the Navy likes use the word "Group" when talking about formations of ships. Whatever it stands for, it certainly was in a cold part of the country!

[green papaya]

maybe it was a private purchase pea coat that a sailor bought himself?

could be commercially made, and bought at a surplus store

[Peacoat]

maybe it was a private purchase pea coat that a sailor bought himself?

could be commercially made, and bought at a surplus store

A good idea, except that it doesn't appear to have been owned by an individual seaman.

Perhaps the coat was for use on guard duty on especially cold nights when a regular peacoat just wasn't enough coat? It could have been assigned to a company and loaned out for duty? Even if true, there is still no explanation where it came from. The private purchase idea initially sounds plausible, but I just can't see a supply chief going outside Navy procurement and purchasing a coat on the civilian market. They aren't wired that way. And, as earlier established, the coat does not appear to have been privately owned.

Anybody else have any ideas? So far we have more questions than we have answers.

[3rdGen1940]

Hey Guys. I've read this entire thread and I hope y'all can help me find more information about my peacoat.

Here's the story as far as I know it: It was my grandfather's coat. He was in the Navy during WW II. He wore it pretty much everyday until he was murdered in 1964. The house he lived in was abandoned in 1972 and was condemned. In 2004, I learned from my father that the house was still standing in what had become a very bad neighborhood. To my surprise many of the antiques and furnishings were still in the house and the coat was one of the things I took.

My first question is the date. I believe my grandfather graduated high school in 1940 so I would assume that it was issued around that date. Here's a picture of the tag:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y61/mgoudy85/DSC01059.jpg

As you can see, there is no name or rate but my father confirmed that it is my grandfather's peacoat.

Here's a picture of the pocket interior:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y61/mgoudy85/DSC01062.jpg

It seems like the same gold or tan that people have mentioned before.

Here's a question that hasn't been asked. What is the proper way to wear a peacoat? Here's a pic of how I have been wearing it:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y61/mgoudy85/DSC01066.jpg

Is this the correct way?

[Peacoat]

You obviously have a WWII peacoat with four rows of buttons. The Navy way is to wear the coat with all eight of the buttons buttoned at all times.

You are a civilian, and there are no Drill Instructors around to gig you for the way you wear the coat. You don't have to follow the Navy way; however, this is a double breasted garment, and it should never be worn completely unbuttoned. I normally leave the bottom button unbuttoned on my peacoats, and button the rest of them. This relieves the strain on the threads of the bottom button. Buttons are not easy to sew back on; that exercise can best be avoided by not stressing the bottom button threads. If it is cold enough for a peacoat, then all of the other buttons should be buttoned. If walking or standing for more than a few minutes, I will button the bottom button as well. While seated in a car, or at a football game, I leave it unbuttoned.

I wear my WWII coat the same as you wear yours--top button is buttoned. If it isn't cold enough to button the top button, or the other buttons, I wear something else.

Interesting that there was still anything left in the house, especially a peacoat, when you visited.

[wetmarble]

Very nice coat. You're lucky to have found it.

I agree, it is definitely a World War 2 era peacoat. Without a rating badge on the sleeve, it's difficult to pin it down to a specific year, however, since you have a history to go with the coat, your estimate of 1940 is likely to be correct.

As for wearing it, wear it in whatever manner you find most comfortable.

Personally, I wear my 6 button coat with all 3 buttons buttoned and the top button unbuttoned. My 6 button coat is a 42 however and I really should be wearing a 40. The extra room in the coat means that stress on the button thread is not a factor.

[wetmarble]

New Info from an ebay auction:


I believe it is vintage because it has the person's name stenciled on the inside plus an ID number that is only 7 digits long meaning it is his service number. [The Army and Air Force replaced service numbers with Social Security Numbers in 1969. The Navy and Marine Corps followed suit in 1972.] Social security numbers were stenciled in after 1972.

This is confirmed here: http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/social-security-numbers.html

[Peacoat]

Somewhat off topic, but still tangentially related: Even though the Army didn't start using SSNs until 1969, the last four digits of the SSN were stenciled on everything we owned. This was during the time the service numbers were in use, and well before the SSN became the method of identification.

[wetmarble]

I just found this tag on ebay:

http://www.users.qwest.net/~ghstockert/pea388.jpg

The last 3 digits (which I think are a year indicator) are difficult to read. My guess goes to C-53

[Peacoat]

In looking at my research notes, I find that tag is consistent with those issued in 1953, so I think the you are right about the "C-53" being the code for 1953.

[acoustics]

One of the buttons on my peacoat's slightly damaged and I was wondering if anyone here knows where I can get replacements for them? No luck on ebay.
The button has a small eagle on top, one horse on each side, and between the horses is a crest-like symbol.

[Peacoat]

Can you post a picture of one of the good buttons? What is the nationality of the coat?

[acoustics]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/neo_rural/button.jpg
It is a United States peacoat, total of 8 brass buttons and 1 black plastic button with an anchor on it.

[dougie]

Great info in this thread. I got a WW2-issue coat at the beginning of the season. Outwardly it's in perfect shape but when I got it there were a couple of holes in the lining; some in the seams and some where the lining creased naturally, such as at the bottom. I took it to a cleaner/tailor and had him fix all the holes. I've worn it pretty much every day since and new holes have opened up in the lining. It's clear this is going to be an ongoing problem. I'd feel terrible having it relined entirely but do I have any other choice?

[Peacoat]

Doesn't look like any US peacoat button I have ever seen. I have no idea where you might find a buttton like that.

[Tomasso]

Try Tender Buttons. E-mail a photo and they may be able to make a match.

Tender Buttons:
Chicago 312-337-7033
New York 212-758-7004

[Dakota]

Take a look at this WWI pea coat that some one has listed on ebay. The item # is 280092569449. It looks to definitely be from WWI. It has the 10 buttons on the front with the anchor in the middle and the 13 stars around the anchor. It also has the neck strap underneath the collar on the left side. I'm thinking about bidding on it. The seller said the wool is okay and is not eat up with moth holes but that the lining has some rips and wear in it. I looked at the pictures that the seller has posted and I think it would be hard to find a WWI pea coat in this good of condition, even with the lining having issues. I'll have to see how high the bidding gets upto. The reserve price is only $40.00 and the seller is willing to lower that.
Let me know what any of you think about it. And if any of you decide to bid on it too, all's fair. Maybe we'll have a bidding war!

Dakota

[Peacoat]

It is old alright, but I would ask him why he thinks it is WWI. As you know, often times the dating by sellers is just a wild guess. Also, I would ask him to measure across the chest, from arm pit to arm pit, again. If it is a 38, it should be 20 inches across the chest, and not what he posted. Certainly has my interest, but I won't bid on it because you were nice enough to show it to us, and it is not my size!

[Dakota]

The seller told me that he got it from an estate sale and the owners verified that it was from WWI. It belonged to a great uncle or a great great uncle, something like that. He said they also had lots of other WWI military collectibles. The buttons on it too are from the WWI era.
I asked the seller about the size again and he said he was guessing it was about a 38 by the way it fit him. He said it is somewhat too small like his modern military issue size 38 pea coat. He retook the measurements and got the same thing.
I have seen only one other WWI pea coat on ebay about a year ago and this one looks identical to it except the other one's liner was in better condition. It too had the 10 buttons on the front with the 13 stars. That one went for over $200.00. I remember because I had bid on it and got out bid.

[wetmarble]

According to this site: http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/uniforms.htm there was a uniform code released in 1922. I haven't seen the regulations, but I'm guessing this was the year that they changed the button style, which would potentially date the coat in the auction to pre 1922. However, I don't see any other features on the WW1 era coat that distinguishes it from the WW2 era coats, which means it is conceivable that someone could simply sew older buttons onto a WW2 era coat.

I just purchased a 1920s era peacoat on ebay (ebay#190087151920), which is dated based on a family history. It has the newer style of buttons which would indicate it is post 1922. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm eager to receive it to compare with my WW2 era coats.

Good luck in the auction. I'm glad it this WW1 coat doesn't fit me so I don't have the dilemma of whether or not to bid on it.

[Dakota]

I asked the seller about the buttons. He said they look original to the coat. He said the thread used to sew them on is very old looking. He said based on what the family who owned the coat told him about it and along with the other WWI military clothing and items they had, he fully believes the coat is from the WWI era.

[acoustics]

Thanks for the tip! :)
But do they have an email address? I'm in Australia so it is not quite convenient to call.

[jj]

I've seen similar buttons on bridge coats, which are longer but similar to peacoats. It's possible that someone replaced the original buttons on your coat before you got it. If you'd like, I will keep an eye out for any coats with buttons like that - if I find one I'll have to buy the whole coat but I can hack off and send you the buttons.

[acoustics]

Thanks for all the help! : )

[Peacoat]

I've seen similar buttons on bridge coats, which are longer but similar to peacoats. It's possible that someone replaced the original buttons on your coat before you got it. If you'd like, I will keep an eye out for any coats with buttons like that - if I find one I'll have to buy the whole coat but I can hack off and send you the buttons.

The officer's bridge coat button is similar in design to the pewter button posted below, except that it is gold. Different design from what he is looking for. I have seen thousands of peacoat/bridge coat buttons, and they all follow one of about four different designs. None of them is what he is looking for.

If he could post a picture of the tag, or at least describe it, that would be a big help in knowing what we are dealing with.


http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r285/bluesharp766/1974coat--goeswithtag.jpg

[Peacoat]

[QUOTE=wetmarble]
I just purchased a 1920s era peacoat on ebay (ebay#190087151920), which is dated based on a family history. It has the newer style of buttons which would indicate it is post 1922. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm eager to receive it to compare with my WW2 era coats.
QUOTE]



__________

You stole that one! And it was my size, too. It should be about a 42. Do the people at VLJ know you have been sneaking around over here?

[wetmarble]

You stole that one! And it was my size, too. It should be about a 42. Do the people at VLJ know you have been sneaking around over here?

What is VLJ?

[Peacoat]

What is VLJ?


VLJ = Vintage Leather Jackets. But please disregard. I see now that it is a different name I was thinking of. Sorry.

[acoustics]

The tag, which is white in colour, reads as:
PEACOAT, WOOL, MAN'S
CONTRACT: #2125-710100
SPECIFICATION:#6173-710100
STYLE:#MP72132
ISSUE: 1 EACH
CARE: DRY CLEAN, STANDARD METHOD
SOURCE LOCATION: MADE IN U.S.A.

[Peacoat]

That's not an issue coat, but it is made in USA, according to the label. The ones like this that I have seen all have had the standard black anchor buttons. Don't know where these buttons came from. You could replace them all with the standard 1 1/4" anchor buttons.

[wetmarble]

Ok, here's a label you guys probably haven't seen yet:

http://tec-system.com/images/pc/labels/uscg%20-%20ww2.JPG

It comes off of a world war 2 coast guard coat with 10 buttons and a neck strap.

[SpitfireXIV]

thanks to everybody who researched & posted pics to determine the age of a peacoat. i found a peacoat a few weeks back (no, not on eBay!) & i only guessed it was WWII era because the lining and wool used were similar to my Marines overcoat that i already had.

now i know :)

[Dakota]

I just won an ebay auction for an 8 button Navy peacoat with the corduroy pockets. The auction number is: 300095337140. I received the coat yesterday and it is as close to mint as you can get one. I don't even think it was issued because there is no writing on the label and no one's name is stenciled on the liner. It is a size 42. There is no wear on this coat at all and it was properly stored because there is no mothing to it what soever. I did the buy it now for $35.00 plus shipping. I asked the seller where he got it and he said he bought it off of ebay this past winter for his son but his son did not like the way it fit. He said he paid $70.00 for it. I'll try to get some good pics of it and post some here.

Dakota

[SpitfireXIV]

I just won an ebay auction for an 8 button Navy peacoat with the corduroy pockets. The auction number is: 300095337140. I received the coat yesterday and it is as close to mint as you can get one. I don't even think it was issued because there is no writing on the label and no one's name is stenciled on the liner. It is a size 42. There is no wear on this coat at all and it was properly stored because there is no mothing to it what soever. I did the buy it now for $35.00 plus shipping. I asked the seller where he got it and he said he bought it off of ebay this past winter for his son but his son did not like the way it fit. He said he paid $70.00 for it. I'll try to get some good pics of it and post some here.

Dakota
nice. and, most importantly, the no moth damage. best to dry clean it before storing away for the summer though; hate to see such a deal ruined because of a technicality!

see if you have a local drycleaner that can dry clean it in preparation for summer storage. a dry cleaner near work was offering a $7.77 deal to dry clean winter coats in March. took my pea coat in as a test-case, and getting back my marines overcoat this week. just in time for snow in the forecast :mad:

[wetmarble]

I just saw an WWI era peacoat on ebay ( 120101980647 )

[Dakota]

I saw it too. Wonder what the condition is?

[Peacoat]

I just won an ebay auction for an 8 button Navy peacoat with the corduroy pockets. The auction number is: 300095337140. I received the coat yesterday and it is as close to mint as you can get one. I don't even think it was issued because there is no writing on the label and no one's name is stenciled on the liner. It is a size 42. There is no wear on this coat at all and it was properly stored because there is no mothing to it what soever. I did the buy it now for $35.00 plus shipping. I asked the seller where he got it and he said he bought it off of ebay this past winter for his son but his son did not like the way it fit. He said he paid $70.00 for it. I'll try to get some good pics of it and post some here.

Dakota

That is a really nice coat. Probably late 40s to 50s. I don't think it was issued in boot camp because of the lack of a stencil on the liner. May have been post war (WWII or Korea?) dead stock and released to the civilian market, or perhaps to the BX. Wherever it has been hiding for 50 to 60 years, it was hiding in the right place. Good find. When you get tired of it, let me know, as it is my size!

[Peacoat]

I just saw an WWI era peacoat on ebay ( 120101980647 )

What an interesting coat. Did you notice the flap pockets beneath the handwarmer pockets? I think this is the first one like that I have seen. I'm sure a collector bought it. Too bad as it will never be seen again in this lifetime. Had I bought it, I would wear it (every now and then).

[wetmarble]

I saw the flap pockets. I was watching the auction and was hoping it would go for a reasonable price. i would have bid if it had gone for under $100.

Here are the Navy Uniform Regualtions which show the peacoat style with the flaps:

1897
http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/1897/Plate%20III.jpg

1905, 1913 (http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/1913/1913%20Plates%2020-29%20Enlisted.pdf), 1917 (http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/1917/Plates%20Enlisted%2020-29.pdf)
http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/1905/plate%2025.jpg

There were also regulations released in 1922 and 1941. Based on pictures I've seen of pre 1941 coats, I believe 1922 was when the changed the peacoat style to that of the WW2 era coats. I also believe that the button style was changed in 1922 from the anchor with stars around it to the current fouled anchor.

These theories are supported by my peacoat from the mid 1920s that has the fouled anchor buttons and no flap pockets. I however took the liberty of changing the buttons on my 1920s coat to that of the older style star and anchor buttons because I like them more. I'll take some photos this week and post them for you guys.

[Peacoat]

Thanks for the information. That goes back further in time than I have ever traveled!

[Dakota]

If I decide to let it go, I'll definitely let you know.


That is a really nice coat. Probably late 40s to 50s. I don't think it was issued in boot camp because of the lack of a stencil on the liner. May have been post war (WWII or Korea?) dead stock and released to the civilian market, or perhaps to the BX. Wherever it has been hiding for 50 to 60 years, it was hiding in the right place. Good find. When you get tired of it, let me know, as it is my size!

[Dakota]

I just won this ebay auction the other day (item # 250098364361) for a 1967 United States Navy peacoat. It is MINT. The pockets are white corduroy lined. They are not dirty at all. I don't think this coat was ever worn. There is no stenciling on the liner. There is some writing on the tag though. The brass buttons on it are not United States Navy though. They have USMS on them. Does anyone here know what branch of service they are from. How do you upload a picture? For some reason when I tried to upload the picture it won't let me do it. I will upload a picture of the buttons if you can't see them clearly in the auction listing.

Dakota

[Peacoat]

I just won this ebay auction the other day (item # 250098364361) for a 1967 United States Navy peacoat. It is MINT. The pockets are white corduroy lined. They are not dirty at all. I don't think this coat was ever worn. There is no stenciling on the liner. There is some writing on the tag though. The brass buttons on it are not United States Navy though. They have USMS on them. Does anyone here know what branch of service they are from. How do you upload a picture? For some reason when I tried to upload the picture it won't let me do it. I will upload a picture of the buttons if you can't see them clearly in the auction listing.

Dakota

So many difficult questions, but I will see if I can answer them.

That coat is from the United States Maritime Service with the same ranks, grades and ratings as the Coast Guard. I would say a very rare coat. The US Maritime Service was created by the Merchant Marine Act of 1936. They saw difficult action in the North Atlantic during the War.

To post pictures, first you must upload to a remote photo server, such as PhotoBucket. Then copy and paste the URL from PhotoBucket (found under your picture) and use the insert feature found on the tool bar above your message on this site. The photo should appear as if by magic.

[wetmarble]

damn dakota, you're on a buying spree

[Dakota]

Thanks for the information. I don't know how I got so lucky getting this coat at such a low price. And it is MINT. As soon as I get some pictures taken of it and uploaded on photobucket I will post some. I'm going to hold onto this one.
Dakota

[Dakota]

I know. I can't seem to help myself. And these last two I got cheap and both are mint. I guess this is just the time now to try to get them at a cheap price.


damn dakota, you're on a buying spree

[Peacoat]

I know. I can't seem to help myself. And these last two I got cheap and both are mint. I guess this is just the time now to try to get them at a cheap price.

I couldn't help myself either until my wife led me around to all of the closets in the house, and very succinctly pointed out that there was no more room in this house for ANY more peacoats, or other coats, for that matter. Guess I will have to build a closet in the garage and move the peacoats down there. There is no other option.

Does your last jacket, the USMS, have a tag? If so, please post a picture.

[Dakota]

It does have a tag. I will try to get pictures of it uploaded within the next couple of a days.

[jacketquest]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for posting all the great info on peacoats! Very interesting and informative indeed. This past winter I had been trying to find a good peacoat off and on but did not manage to. Now that spring is here I finally managed to win one on ebay. I don't have the coat yet but the description says "CONTRACT DA-36-243-QM (CTM)2678, MENS 42 AND "US NAVY", which from the info here would date it to the 60's sometime? Hopefully it's in good condition.

I have also wondered if anyone has the Navy specification(s) for the peacoat, similar to the G-1 7823/A/B/C/D/ES etc?

[Peacoat]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for posting all the great info on peacoats! Very interesting and informative indeed. This past winter I had been trying to find a good peacoat off and on but did not manage to. Now that spring is here I finally managed to win one on ebay. I don't have the coat yet but the description says "CONTRACT DA-36-243-QM (CTM)2678, MENS 42 AND "US NAVY", which from the info here would date it to the 60's sometime? Hopefully it's in good condition.

I have also wondered if anyone has the Navy specification(s) for the peacoat, similar to the G-1 7823/A/B/C/D/ES etc?

Your coat may be a 1965 version. Some of the earlier years using the US NAVY tag had the date coded in the contract number. I know that 1965 did not, and maybe '64 and '63? Seems that I have seen the date coded in the 1962 model. So, that narrows it down for you.

Have not seen the specs for the various contract numbers. Probably exist somewhere, but I don't know where they would be. Really not much change from 1947 until they did away with the corduroy pocket linings in '67. The next big change was when the black buttons changed to pewter in about 1976, and again in about 1978 when the type of wool was changed to the Melton style.

[jacketquest]

Thanks for the info.

On a somewhat related note, how should the peacoat fit in terms of sleeve length? Where should the cuff break? Is it meant to be long enough cover part of the hand or should it break right around the wrist area?

[Peacoat]

Thanks for the info.

On a somewhat related note, how should the peacoat fit in terms of sleeve length? Where should the cuff break? Is it meant to be long enough cover part of the hand or should it break right around the wrist area?

As you aren't wearing it as part of a uniform, it is a matter of personal preference. I like for my peacoats to cover all of the wrist and stop where the hand joins the wrist. Although for me it is comfortable for the coat to cover some of the hand. I would rather it be too long than too short.

My first peacoat was given to me by my brother in law back in about 1971. It was a little short in the sleeves then, and never got any longer. Since then I have been sensitive to sleeves that are too short. But it is a matter of what you like.

[jacketquest]

Update: I received the peacoat. It's in excellent condition. It needs a dry cleaning but the wool is in perfect condition otherwise, likewise the lining. The pockets are lined in brown corduroy.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/fqhh/peacoat/d4dfac61.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/fqhh/peacoat/5cfc2c24.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/fqhh/peacoat/dfa2f000.jpg

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/fqhh/peacoat/31f233a7.jpg

[Jovan]

The first thing I thought of was Gates McFadden... I am such a nerd.

[jacketquest]

The first thing I thought of was Gates McFadden... I am such a nerd.

Couldn't be hers, she was an officer. :)

[Jovan]

Hahahaha

[Peacoat]

My favorite year, and just my size. Wish I had seen it!

[jacketquest]

My favorite year, and just my size. Wish I had seen it!

Sorry but I'm glad you didn't. :)

It's off to the cleaners today. Hopefully I can still get some use out of it this year. If not, a trip up to San Francisco is in order. It's peacoat weather there year 'round.

[Eric Meyer]

Hey Fellas
What is a fair price for a 60's peacoat. I'm going to sell mine, it's too small :mad: now and we are moving. It's got cordeuroy (sp?) pockets and I got it in 1967 I think. The lining is torn in a few places but it still looks good. The label says US navy depot but the letters on the lines are too worn to read. the stencil of the guy that I bought it from are on the lining. It kept my warm and looking good for many years. I put it up in the classified section but no one seems interested.
Thanks
Eric
finetuning@aol.com

[Peacoat]

Hey Fellas
What is a fair price for a 60's peacoat. I'm going to sell mine, it's too small :mad: now and we are moving. It's got cordeuroy (sp?) pockets and I got it in 1967 I think. The lining is torn in a few places but it still looks good. The label says US navy depot but the letters on the lines are too worn to read. the stencil of the guy that I bought it from are on the lining. It kept my warm and looking good for many years. I put it up in the classified section but no one seems interested.
Thanks
Eric
finetuning@aol.com

I would be surprised if it says "US Navy Depot," as I have never seen that wording on a label. Perhaps it says "Naval Clothing Depot?" If so, that would be a late forties or early fifties label--just off the top of my head without checking my notes, or my peacoats.

This is the wrong time of year to sell a peacoat. Wait until the late fall, early winter. Also you will have a larger audience on ebay than the local paper.

[green papaya]

I sold a used size 40 USN pea coat on ebay last year before Christmas for $28.00 buy it now

my geuss is it's worth $30 - $35 because it's a size small

small sizes dont have as much value as large sizes

[Eric Meyer]

You're right Peacoat, it's Naval Clothing Depot. I'd be amazed if the coat was that old. I remember asking my friend in the Navy to get me a coat. He must have bought it off another sailor and it seemed brand new at the time. I think I payed him $45 for it which wasn't cheap back then. I used to wear it around Boston in the winter of 1971, trolling for girls. I loved that pinched waist and double breast--and warm. I'm afraid a pinched waist size 40 doen't work for me anymore.:(

[Peacoat]

You're right Peacoat, it's Naval Clothing Depot. I'd be amazed if the coat was that old. I remember asking my friend in the Navy to get me a coat. He must have bought it off another sailor and it seemed brand new at the time. I think I payed him $45 for it which wasn't cheap back then. I used to wear it around Boston in the winter of 1971, trolling for girls. I loved that pinched waist and double breast--and warm. I'm afraid a pinched waist size 40 doen't work for me anymore.:(

Yes, it's that old. Those labels weren't made after the early to mid fifties. Properly worn and stored they can look brand new for sixty or more years. I have a 1949 coat that looks like it just came from the Quartermaster.

Interesting that you were wearing that coat, a size forty, in 1971. I had my first peacoat, also a forty, in 1971. I can still wear that coat, but the shoulders and arms are a bit tight today. I now wear a forty two. Don't sell it, save it for the memories.

[Flattery]

Hello everyone.

I was very excited to have come across this thread. Very interesting and informative! I just purchased a pristine 1951 USN pea coat for $65 from a friend's uncle. I've no pictures yet (I haven't received the coat in the mail)... the seller says that the label reads "Naval Clothing Company," although I'm positive "company" is really "factory." I can confirm this at some point.

This thread sparked my curiosity, so I dug my Navy pea coat out from storage and looked at the label. My original issue coat was a size too big (they thought I'd gain more weight than I did while in boot camp), so I bought another one in 2003. I've confirmed the contract number as the Sterlingwear 1990 contract... but there's no indication as to when the coat was actually made (if not in 1990), unless it had been sitting around for years before I bought it. It was brand new (and still appears that way), with no stenciling or anything written on it until after I bought it at the Navy Exchange.

Here's the label:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7388/currentlabelbj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Anyone have any idea when this coat was made?

Even though the current issue pea coats are not nearly as dense as older ones, it is still quite warm. I remember sleeping on airport terminal benches, head up against my seabag, covered with my coat. Very toasty. I do wish the Navy issued old-style pea coats, though. On a very cold day in Chicago, these new ones will only keep you warm so much -- depending on if one layers properly.

I'll post pictures of the 1951 coat when I'm able.

Cheers,
~Flattery

[green papaya]

the tag numbers indicate this coat was made in 1990

Contract No. DLA 100-90-C-4049

90-C is 1990 contract date / manufacture, it sat in storage for about 13 years

[Flattery]

90-C is 1990 contract date / manufacture, it sat in storage for about 13 years

Wow, okay. I had a feeling that was correct, but wanted to be sure. Thanks, Papaya. ;)

[jgilbert]

Been reading this thread for awhile and I would like to know how should it fit?
Most of the coats look box like for lack of a better term. Or should there, and if so, how much of a taper?

I plan to wear it with a heavy turtle neck sweater.

Thanks

[Flattery]

Hi jgilbert.

As a general rule, I would get one size larger than your actual size. I'm just a little guy -- a USN peacoat size 34R fits me like a glove, but I wear a 36 to accommodate heavy sweaters and hooded sweatshirts. I can wear my 34R fine with sweaters and such, but it's tight. The range of movement is better when wearing my size 36 coat.

My coat tapers just a little in line with the pockets. The taper isn't terribly apparent unless I have both of my hands in my pockets. I would think any authentic USN peacoat would appear box-like when standing idle with your hands at your sides, but I can't speak too intelligently about older coats. Hopefully someone else will chime in here with additional advice.

Sterlingwear (current USN peacoat supplier) coats are extremely fitted, and they recommend going up at least 1 size for a comfortable fit. (See here: http://www.sterlingwear.com./sizechart.html)

Cheers,
~Flattery

[green papaya]

military issue pea coats are not as full cut as civillian coats, they are more like a uniform type fit

you should definitely go up a size if you plan to wear layers or a heavy turtle neck

[Peacoat]

As a point of reference, I wear a size 42 in a suit. A size 42 peacoat is a perfect fit with a little room for a heavy turtleneck, when needed.

They are fitted and should be not look boxy at all. There should be a taper from the shoulders to the waist. Very becoming on a man who is not overweight. I work out and keep in shape so that my peacoats will fit in the winter! Well, maybe there is a little bit of summertime narcissism there also.

[Flattery]

I ran across this site yesterday -- your veritable pick of USN peacoats, and quite affordable!

http://www.vintagetrends.com/military/thumbnails.asp?MC=Military+Vintage&CA=Men&SC=Jackets%2FCoats&ST=Navy+Pea+Coat

[Peacoat]

Great site. Thanks. Although some of the dates are off by 10 to 30 years! I saw one six button coat advertised as 30's or 40's (don't remember which) and one or two eight button coats advertised as 60's model. Other than those small errors, a good place to get a coat.

[Flattery]

Although some of the dates are off by 10 to 30 years! I saw one six button coat advertised as 30's or 40's (don't remember which) and one or two eight button coats advertised as 60's model. Other than those small errors, a good place to get a coat.

I noticed the discrepancies as well. Part of me was slightly irritated, but that feeling didn't last long -- it's hard to be irritated when I think of buying a peacoat in good condition for, say, $80, shipping included. :eek: ...which is what I just did. So now I've two great coats to look forward to wearing in the winter. Once I receive the one I bought from that site, I'll take a few pictures and post them here.

Cheers,
~Flattery

[Flattery]

After a delay due to an error on the shipping label, I received my peacoat from VintageTrends.com today.

It's perfect save for a couple of small holes in the lining -- one above the back vent, the other inside the right sleeve. Other than that, it's a beauty.

The site indicated that this is a 1951 coat. However, here's the label:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7021/p6300004lj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot at 2007-06-30


This label looks just like the 1966-68 label. It's difficult to see the contract number, but I can see that it begins with DSA. I believe it to be: DSA-2-2223. Anyone have an idea as to the date of the coat? It's definitely 1961-77. I loaded the image into Photoshop, but for all of my adjustments, I couldn't make out any more lettering.

EDIT: Okay, I'm a doofus. Going back through this thread, I've been able to identify my label as the 1966 label. If this is incorrect, please let me know. Cheers!

[Peacoat]

I wouldn't say you are a "Doofus," but I would say you are pretty close on the date. The tag seems to indicate a 1966 coat. Please look at the stitching about 3" above the cuff. If there is a double row of stitching, then the coat is a 1966 model. That was the last year for the double row of stitching. As you now know, the 1966 tag is unique as that was the only year that particular tag was used. Also, 1966 was the last year the double stitching was used on the sleeve.

A good find!

[Flattery]

Yes, there's double stitching above the cuff -- it was the first thing I noticed when I took the coat out of the box. So... 1966, confirmed. :eusa_clap

Had I never happened across this thread, I would've taken their word on the date of the coat.

Yesterday, while stitching up the lining in the left armpit area (it was coming loose), I noticed the original owner's stencil near the vent. It was rather faded, but readable with a flashlight. Later, in an effort to read under the blacked out portion of the label, I had wet it down and taken some high-res pictures to load into photoshop. After playing around with the images, I made out some initials, and the beginning of a service number, entirely different from stencil on the lining. So it seems that this coat was worn by two different sailors -- whomever's name and SN was blacked out being the original owner, I think. My guess is that the original owner gave it back to the Navy after he left the service, and it was re-issued. At least, that seems like the most likely possibility.

I'm amazed at the condition of this coat, and the color is superb. It was missing the interior button above the small inner pocket, but luckily I had a button taken from my dad's peacoat.

I also weighed this coat to see how it compared to my issue coat (manufactured in 1990). Both were comparable -- about 6 pounds. Yesterday was very windy, so I gave both coats a bit of a test. While wearing the Kersey coat, my torso felt "sealed up." In the Sterlingwear coat, I could tell that the wind penetrated it a little in some places, but not by much. Both great coats, but I'm absolutely in love with the Kersey wool.

[Peacoat]

I doubt that he gave it back to the Navy. Probably sold it and it was re-used by another sailor. But I could be wrong.

Thank you for the "wind" test; that confirms what I have always believed: the new coats are as warm, but not as wind or waterproof as the old ones. I had a current issue Sterlingwear, but gave it to a friend of mine before I could do extensive testing with it. Did some testing and formed the same conclusions as you did.

1966 is a good year; you got an excellent coat.

[Flattery]

Has anyone come across any vendors for the 1980's pewter buttons? Just curious. I haven't found any yet, myself.