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Brad Bowers
12-27-2004, 09:05 PM
Enjoyed watching Vertigo tonight, as I hadn't seen it in years. I was surprised to see the hats in the film were still fairly wide-brimmed and tall of crown for the late 1950s. Really liked Jimmy Stewart's brown hat.

There seemed to be a fair percentage of hat wearers in the film, but I wonder how much of that is accurate to real life? Would the costumers have gone to the trouble to equip the extras with hats reflecting real life? Or did extras provide their own wardrobe back then?

Too bad the Sixties had to roll around and change everything! :(

Brad

Matt Deckard
12-27-2004, 10:31 PM
Here is the old thread.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=1082&highlight=vertigo

From what I have seen the lower crowned and skimpy brimmed hats came about in the Early 60's.
The late 40's and early 50's had wider brimmed hats. There are always acceptions. The hats in Vertigo were period correct for 1958, 5 years later the average hat dimentions became much smaller. Watch the "Adventures of Superman" TV series which ran from 1951 to 1957 you can see alot of 50's hats. 5 years later the mod look caught on even more and you get the skimpy hats like the ones James Bond wore in Dr. No and From Russia With Love.
Thankfully as time went by James Stewart always seemed to dress as though he walked out of the 1940's in many of his 50's and 60's films.
http://www.cinematrix.hu/fajlok/hirek/kepek/Vertigo.jpg
http://www.uh.cz/p100/p100/filmy/o_vertigo/vertigoustromu.jpg

Brad Bowers
12-27-2004, 10:53 PM
Thanks, Matt. I forgot about that post. I was watching The Man Who Knew Too Much and noticed his grey hat looks exactly like my Borsalino, right down to the bent corner on the bow. I'd wager it was a Borsalino. The brown one from Vertigo also seemed like a Borsa. Maybe Jimmy was a Borsalino man?

Brad

Brad Bowers
12-27-2004, 10:54 PM
FWIW, I thought Kim Novak looked better as a brunette!

Brad

Blackjack
12-30-2004, 07:45 AM
Thats a great shot of Jimmy from Vertigo. I swear thats the same brown hat he wore in the Glenn Miller Story, bet it was his.

Matt Deckard
12-30-2004, 08:51 AM
Could very well be. I remember an interview that was shown on television a while back where the interviewer was looking inside one of Stewarts Cowboy hats and it had (I think) "James Stewart #2" on the sweatband. I think I recall Jimmy Stewart going on about how important it is to find the right hat that works with you. John Wayne was the same way... he wore the same hat in many films.

Dave Keith
08-24-2005, 07:37 AM
I saw Vertigo on TCM again the other night and noticed that the Stewart character wore that great brown hat with both a brown suit and a blue one.

I have no guess on the brand of hat and can make no observation other than thinking the edge looked neither bound nor welted. That comes under the category of "duh," doesn't it?

PS. love the car; is that a DeSoto?

scotrace
08-24-2005, 08:02 AM
But did you See Kim Novak's Jag? :)

SHARPETOYS
08-24-2005, 08:23 AM
More pics

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=2046

K.D. Lightner
08-24-2005, 08:27 AM
Interesting he wore the same or same type of fedora -- in those westerns made in the early 50's, he evidently preferred to wear the same cowboy hat in every film. One director had to talk him out of wearing it in a later film as it was getting pretty battered.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/169778.jpg


karol

meerschaum
01-31-2006, 02:14 PM
I watched Philadelphia Story for the 47th time last night, but this is the first time I noticed the hats. To me this is the perfect fedora look, up there with the fedora Gable wears in It Happened One Night. Is there any info available on these hats? If AdventureBilt can replicate these, I'd buy them in a flash.

(EDIT: I moved photos to a different site, because they weren't working on KodakGallery)



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/bpgoldman/PhiladelphiaStory.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/bpgoldman/ItHappenedOneNight.jpg

jake_fink
02-01-2006, 07:57 AM
I also love those hats in Philedelphia Story and (especially) that high-crowned wonder that Gable sprts in It Happened One Night. (Your pictures aren't working by the way - I had to click on the image box, choose prperties and then paste that into my address thingy to see them, anyway...), and I've also always loved the look of the hat and suits in Vertigo; I really like the way the brown and blue come together in Technicolor, though I've discovered it doesn't work so well in real colour... if I could just match that perfect Techinicolor grey-blue....

Stewart looks great in a hat. He is tall and lean which is, I think, the perfect physique for a hat. Not that other body types are imperfect physiques for a hat, ;) but he looks great in a hat, and he is tall and lean, so there you go.

Edited to add: Okay, now they're working.

Fedora
02-01-2006, 10:20 AM
If AdventureBilt can replicate these, I'd buy them in a flash.



I can replicate most hats, as long as they have raw brims. I am limited to the raw brimmed hats.

Here is one that I made recently.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/fedora1951/Borsacopy5.jpg


And here is what I was attemping to copy.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/fedora1951/borsBeaver.jpg

John in Covina
02-01-2006, 10:32 AM
You need to watch the FBI Story, as it is a great Hat movie. Jimmy Stewart has several hats through out the film, they change as to time and location. Every man wears a hat practically in this film.

Ithink this is still only on VHS tape, the DVD hasn't been done yet. I hope they do it soon, I want to see it WS.

"Don't shoot, G-man!"

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 10:42 AM
I watched Philadelphia Story for the 47th time last night, but this is the first time I noticed the hats. To me this is the perfect fedora look, up there with the fedora Gable wears in It Happened One Night. Is there any info available on these hats? If AdventureBilt can replicate these, I'd buy them in a flash.[/IMG]

Ah, good taste in hats there! I love Stewart's hats in all his movies mainly from the late 30's to the late 40's but, you know they didn't change much into the 50's.

I believe that his hats were Stetson's or maybe Dobb's. I remember seeing an old hat ad from 1946 with Stewart on it. I'm going to say that it was a Stetson ad. Maybe for Whippets? Yeah, I think Stewart was a Whippet man.

The hat you see Gable wear in his early films are nearly imposable to replicate. If you're a size 6 1/8 -7 1/4 then you'd be better off finding a vintage one, save some money and get the genuine article. I don't know much about AdventureBilt but, I'm sure the shape of the crown will be hard to replicate. Also, Gable's hat has a Cavanaugh edge that I can see. Fedora, if you learn to make the "Cavanaugh edge" you'd offer something that no one else does! ;)

=WR=

It Happened One Night....
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5842/gablehat22hh.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/9366/gablehat40xv.jpg

Michaelson
02-01-2006, 10:46 AM
Interesting he wore the same or same type of fedora -- in those westerns made in the early 50's, he evidently preferred to wear the same cowboy hat in every film. One director had to talk him out of wearing it in a later film as it was getting pretty battered.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/MMPH/169778.jpg


karol

That particular hat was made by Peter's Brothers of Ft. Worth TX and was one of Stewarts personal favorites.

Regards! Michaelson

indyjim
02-01-2006, 10:52 AM
Fedora, your copy looks better than the original, IMO. I'd love to have that hat!

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 11:11 AM
This I'd love to see. (not being sarcastic or mean) I have a 1930's Dobb's 5th Ave that is one of the softest felts I've ever, ever, touched. It's super light weight too and it almost feels like I'm not even wearing a hat! One of my finer 30's fedoras!

A photo of me wearing it....

http://images16.fotki.com/v275/free/934ea/8/807850/3163843/SanDiegoLaurenspics047-vi.jpg

More photos upon request;).

=WR=

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 11:17 AM
I can replicate most hats, as long as they have raw brims. I am limited to the raw brimmed hats.

Here is one that I made recently.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/fedora1951/Borsacopy5.jpg


And here is what I was attemping to copy.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c225/fedora1951/borsBeaver.jpg

So, the top photo is of the hat you made? If so, it's a very fine hat! I'd say you did very very well.

=WR=

Fedora
02-01-2006, 11:50 AM
I have a 75 gram portugal body that is with Mr. Riser out there in Ca. If anyone is interested in what this fine felt looks like, and feels like, look him up. :) The only vintage body that I have seen that comes close in looks and fineness of felt are the vintage beaver dress hats. It knocks most vintage felts out of the water. IMHO. Fedora

SHARPETOYS
02-01-2006, 12:53 PM
Steve,
I mailed the 75 gram brown hat to Daniel Riser in Dec. He was going to let Matt Deckard see it and mail it to Art Fawcett. I have called Daniel Riser at least 5 times spoke to him twice and the last time 2 weeks ago he said he would get it to Art after Deckard saw it. Well Art doesn't have it so I have no idea where the hat is now!! I have left several messages for Riser!! :rage:

Michaelson
02-01-2006, 12:58 PM
Not saying anything pro or con regarding Dan, but I DO know he's been working on the final edit of the Templar Indy movie... long hours. Not an excuse, but he's been pretty tied up over the past couple of weeks.

There's a sample hat floating around?! Steve told me he'd let me see an example as soon as he got hold of one, and now you're telling me one completely bypassed me and is now somewhere out on the West Coast?

I'm speechless.


Regards! Michaelson

Marc Chevalier
02-01-2006, 01:13 PM
More photos upon request;).

=WR=


Wild Root, consider this a request. PLEASE post more photos of this wonderful hat. This is EXACTLY the shape that I'm looking for.

If you take many photos (including the inside of the crown), I will find a way to thank you personally. Hint: it may involve a necktie.

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 01:38 PM
Wild Root, consider this a request. PLEASE post more photos of this wonderful hat. This is EXACTLY the shape that I'm looking for.

If you take many photos (including the inside of the crown), I will find a way to thank you personally. Hint: it may involve a necktie.

This is another shot from the "Day at the Races" This shows a good side shot of the crown. At this point, I had no crown bashes in the front. It's soft! I can bash it any time I want and un-bashes even nicer! Also, Addi's hat is rather smart as well!

More to come.

=WR=

http://images16.fotki.com/v272/free/0af7a/8/807850/3163843/SanDiegoLaurenspics006-vi.jpg

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 01:41 PM
I have a 75 gram portugal body that is with Mr. Riser out there in Ca. If anyone is interested in what this fine felt looks like, and feels like, look him up. :) The only vintage body that I have seen that comes close in looks and fineness of felt are the vintage beaver dress hats. It knocks most vintage felts out of the water. IMHO. Fedora

I've talked to Matt Deckard and he hasn't seen or heard from Dan. He's kind miffed that it didn't get sent to a Bartender. Dan's a friend of mine but, I think he's to busy and focused on other things to be handling "Lounge" business. I haven't seen him on here this month or the last.

=WR=

Matt Deckard
02-01-2006, 02:02 PM
Dan isn't really active on the forum, though I have talked to him briefly and then no contact.

Hey Marc... Check out this thread!
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=1371&highlight=sucker

Fedora
02-01-2006, 02:49 PM
I am sure Dan I busy as a bee and has not had time for the hat. I was gonna send it to Deckard, but Dan said he wanted to see it too, so I had it mailed to him. Hopefully he will surface soon. Oh, I said "the hat". Actually, it is more of a body with a discarded sweat stitched in just to help it hold its shape. The finish on the body is factory, as I did not pounce it at all. I wanted folks to see one before I did the final hand pouncing. When you guys get to see it, just remember this is not a finished hat at all, but what I start with. It will amaze you if you are familiar with different sorts of felt. That body has no stiffener at all, so it is soft, even for dense beaver felt. I was wanting some advice on whether I needed the factory to add stiffener, a .2, or .4 degree just to give it some body. Hopefully this will transpire soon because I am waiting on some well schooled advice before I place an order. I want to replicate the vintage look and feel in this pure beaver felt. And it may be that this felt is too fine to nail the blended felt look that many are use to, and fond of. That is what I need to know. Thanks. Fedora

Fedora
02-01-2006, 02:57 PM
There's a sample hat floating around?! Steve told me he'd let me see an example as soon as he got hold of one, and now you're telling me one completely bypassed me and is now somewhere out on the West Coast?


My friend, this was the small "b crown" body that I was telling you about.:) It has around a 4 inch crown, and will make a size 6 3/4 to 6 7/8 hat. Practically useless for us Indy fans, and tall crowned vintage hat fans. Now, if that that baby would have been a c crown, that is around 6 inches tall, look out!!! I wanted some advice from the vintage guys on the quality, and softness of the felt, so I had to send it where most of those folks are. :) Once Art gets to look at it, and he sends it back, it will be on its way to you, and anyone else who wants to see what Portugal is making these days, in the higher end felt. I was impressed with that raw body, but need a vintage eye to appraise it. Regards, Fedora

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 02:58 PM
I hope to see it soon. I'd love to see the felt "in the raw".

If you ever figure out how to "Cavanaugh edge" let me know. I like raw edge but, the Cavanaugh Edge is one of my favorites, same with bounded edges. Have you tried that yet Fedora?

Cheers,
=WR=

jamespowers
02-01-2006, 03:17 PM
I hope to see it soon. I'd love to see the felt "in the raw".

If you ever figure out how to "Cavanaugh edge" let me know. I like raw edge but, the Cavanaugh Edge is one of my favorites, same with bounded edges. Have you tried that yet Fedora?

Cheers,
=WR=

Here's how the Cavanagh Edge is made Root:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4993
How many can you make for us? ;)
It is very labor intensive and you have to do it just right or you end up with a stingy brim. The body manufacturer is who you have to convince to do it---good luck though. Raise your hand if you want to remove stitches and help the factory. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

Michaelson
02-01-2006, 03:51 PM
My friend, this was the small "b crown" body that I was telling you about.:) It has around a 4 inch crown, and will make a size 6 3/4 to 6 7/8 hat. Practically useless for us Indy fans, and tall crowned vintage hat fans. Now, if that that baby would have been a c crown, that is around 6 inches tall, look out!!! I wanted some advice from the vintage guys on the quality, and softness of the felt, so I had to send it where most of those folks are. :) Once Art gets to look at it, and he sends it back, it will be on its way to you, and anyone else who wants to see what Portugal is making these days, in the higher end felt. I was impressed with that raw body, but need a vintage eye to appraise it. Regards, Fedora


I do vaguely remember that now. Sorry.:( Hey, I've slept since we talked about that one.[huh] ;) Regards! Michaelson

Brad Bowers
02-01-2006, 04:37 PM
I've often thought that if you took a router to a hat brim, set the depth for about a 1/16" or so, and routed out all but the outside 1/4" or so, and then rounded off the edge of the brim...

I call it the "Routed Edge," patent pending.;)

Brad

jamespowers
02-01-2006, 05:06 PM
I've often thought that if you took a router to a hat brim, set the depth for about a 1/16" or so, and routed out all but the outside 1/4" or so, and then rounded off the edge of the brim...

I call it the "Routed Edge," patent pending.;)

Brad

Uh, yeah sure that would work. :rolleyes:
I think you need to save your money on that patent process. :p

Regards to all,

J

Fedora
02-01-2006, 06:31 PM
the Cavanaugh Edge is one of my favorites,


That sort of edge is my absolute favorite!! I love them. I do not like the over, or under welts, but the Cavanagh, well that is artistry. If I had my druthers, I would druther all of my hats were of that sort. It is so classy looking to me. I just hope I am around if it is ever brought back. From what I understand, that edge is created in the back shop, and not the front. It is done when the hat is still felting!! I think it is a specialized skill, and you have to have a feel to make them right. I have read that, at any rate. Fedora

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 06:48 PM
We have something in common! It's one of my top favorites too. I have over and under welted edges and they are good hats that I love because they offer variety to my collection. But, I must say that the Cavanaugh edge is my top favorite. I also love a really good bounded edge. That can look really classy too.;)

=WR=

scotrace
02-01-2006, 06:51 PM
More pics

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=2046

Yup. Stewart's hat has a bound edge. Whatever he wore in Vertigo, the liner was black. It's clearly seen at one point.

Sharpey - the hat that is out west cooling its sweatband in Riser's apartment - is that the one we posted pics of here? Is it the one Fedora showed us pics of it denting with a dropped quarter?

SHARPETOYS
02-01-2006, 07:30 PM
Quote,

Sharpey - the hat that is out west cooling its sweatband in Riser's apartment - is that the one we posted pics of here? Is it the one Fedora showed us pics of it denting with a dropped quarter?


Yes sir it is. This felt is as soft as a cloud and Art will love it when he gets to see it!

jamespowers
02-01-2006, 08:35 PM
That sort of edge is my absolute favorite!! I love them. I do not like the over, or under welts, but the Cavanagh, well that is artistry. If I had my druthers, I would druther all of my hats were of that sort. It is so classy looking to me. I just hope I am around if it is ever brought back. From what I understand, that edge is created in the back shop, and not the front. It is done when the hat is still felting!! I think it is a specialized skill, and you have to have a feel to make them right. I have read that, at any rate. Fedora

You have it completely right. It is an art because you have to get the sizing right before the end of the felting process and you know how much the bodies shrink along the felting process. Those old body makers really knew their stuff. I wish we had that kind of knowledge now. Hats that don't taper with Cavanagh Edges would be the norm. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

Fedora
02-01-2006, 08:37 PM
also love a really good bounded edge. That can look really classy too

You know, I used to hate bound brims. But, in the last few months, I have reblocked several, and I have become rather fond of them. I think my dislike was a Freudian thing, dating from my childhood. I got a cowboy outfit when I was 7 years old. The cowboy hat came with a bound brim. Well, I wanted a football suit, complete with helmet, and that disapointment affected me later on-I think. :D Everytime I looked at that Roy Rogers looking hat, I would get ill. Funny how things like that can influence feelings down the road. I feel rather guilty now, removing that nice vintage ribbon from all of those vintage brims I bought a few years ago on ebay. Back when you could get them at a reasonable price. But, I will not commit that travesty any longer. :) Now the welted edges, are not for me. They just look like someone tried to copy a Cavanagh edge, and sewed the darn thing. But, to each his own. Fedora

Wild Root
02-01-2006, 10:59 PM
I feel rather guilty now, removing that nice vintage ribbon from all of those vintage brims I bought a few years ago on ebay. Back when you could get them at a reasonable price. But, I will not commit that travesty any longer. :)

Fedora, I'm so happy to hear that! Good stuff!

Now, do you know how to put a bound edge on a hat? Or, does it take a piece of equipment that is hard to get?

I know over welts and under welts aren't very attractive to some but, they're different and some are rare! Under welts are very rare for what I find. I have one that has three stitches and looks kind of neat I think but, as you say, to each his own.;)

=WR=

Jeffries
01-28-2010, 01:35 AM
I saw a reference in the old posts about the brown fedora that James Stewart wore in ther movie "Vertigo" but no mention of what the brand or style was. Anyone have any ideas?

Brad Bowers
01-28-2010, 09:15 AM
I remember posting about this once. At the time, I thought it might be a Knox, but it could also be a Cavanagh. I'd be willing to bet its one of the two.

Brad

scotrace
01-28-2010, 10:28 AM
Found three and they are one.

Brad Bowers
01-28-2010, 11:02 AM
Okay, it appears I never said anything about a Knox. Where did I get that idea?[huh]

Brad

Brad Bowers
01-22-2012, 12:50 PM
Watching The Glenn Miller Story this morning, I verified that Stewart's brown hat was a Cavanagh. He also wore a brown Cavanagh in Bell, Book, and Candle, made the same year as Vertigo, and just four years after The Glenn Miller Story. This confirms to me that Stewart was a Cavanagh man, at least in the 1950s. Chances are excellent that the Vertigo hat is a Cavanagh. I need to watch that movie again sometime to see if I can verify it.

Brad

delectans
01-22-2012, 12:56 PM
Wow, we are just finishing The Glenn Miller Story right now. 'Moonlight Serenade' and 'Little Brown Jug' at movies end. Nice to know that Jimmy was a Cavanagh man.

Sam Craig
01-23-2012, 07:33 AM
FWIW, I thought Kim Novak looked better as a brunette!

Brad

Just for the record .... Kim Novak looked great as EVERYTHING!

What a gal!

Sam