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hatted
06-09-2009, 04:02 PM
I've been trolling ebay for vintage fedoras for years now, and it seems to me that there are very few black ones. Also, I rarely see nice vintage black fedoras here. So what's the deal? Were so many fewer black fedoras produced? Were they worn out? Is it my imagination? Thanks in advance for your expert opinions!

Garrett
06-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Here's a few:

I believe these to be from the 30's

Mossant, Borsalino, Borsalino Trionfo

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1989.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1989.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1990.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1990.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1991.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1991.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1994.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1994.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1995.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1995.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1996.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1996.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1105-Copy.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1105-Copy.jpg)
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/th_IMG_1110.jpg (http://s522.photobucket.com/albums/w342/CWON1/?action=view&current=IMG_1110.jpg)

I've got more if you're still thirsty :D

hatted
06-09-2009, 04:42 PM
Thanks! I think you have all of them.

Dinerman
06-09-2009, 05:04 PM
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/ebay%20hats/IMG_1380.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/ebay%20hats/IMG_1385.jpg


http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_0920.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_0922.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_1026-1.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_0679.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_0676.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/DSC05563.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/DSC05562.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee100/dinerman2/IMG_4458.jpg

Garrett
06-09-2009, 05:20 PM
:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

hatted
06-09-2009, 05:27 PM
The Brill Brother's is fantastic!

feltfan
06-09-2009, 05:28 PM
Featherweight Borsalino, 1955:

http://static.flickr.com/94/205045801_1a249aee31.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/84/205045887_6dd246a410.jpg

Looks like Lefty deleted his pictures of the black Chamois. I guess
it's not technically a fedora anyway.

I also have a Mallory, probably 1930s, wide brim fedora in black.
I'll post pix some day...

I have a black French 50s (back bow) Willoughby with a "Satin"
finish. I have noticed a preponderance of "fuzzy" hats among
the black fedoras.

hatted
06-09-2009, 05:31 PM
The Featherweight Borsalino is nice.

Garrett
06-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Here's an article from the New York Times archives dating to 1910

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E05E1D81239E433A25752C0A9669D94 6196D6CF

Lefty
06-09-2009, 05:33 PM
I probably just moved them within photobucket. Here you go.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/My%20Hats/db.jpghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/My%20Hats/db1.jpghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/My%20Hats/db2.jpghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/My%20Hats/db3.jpghttp://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/My%20Hats/db4.jpg

hatted
06-09-2009, 05:35 PM
Well, that's great Garrett. Do you also happen to have a time machine? The only question then would be, is a hat vintage if you purchase it via time machine.

The answer is: who cares, as long as you get the hat!

barrowjh
06-09-2009, 06:26 PM
I've had no luck landing a nice (vintage) black fedora, so I wound up ordering one from Art Fawcett (Vintage Silhouettes):
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/barrowjh/022809005.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb307/barrowjh/041809003.jpg
Black was an ominous color for a fedora - religous, bankers, undertakers, etc. - so they were not as popular. Black is no longer 'ominous' and I suspect many of them are simply never sold. part of the problem with getting a nice one on OFAS was that I was not willing to pay top dollar, so they just kept slipping away.

No problem landing nice hombergs and bowlers in black, but a fedora with a 2 1/2 in felted edge brim? don't see many of them, and they fetch a good price.

Garrett
06-09-2009, 06:32 PM
If ya can't get a vintage lid on the bay, Art is the next best thing....in most cases the 1st best thing!

hatted
06-09-2009, 07:55 PM
Thanks John, what you're saying rings true. And excuse my ignorance, but what is OFAS?

Garrett
06-09-2009, 08:00 PM
OFAS = Our Favorite Auction Site = Ebay

Though we've been told to stop using this, some still do. I'm guilty of this from time to time but if you want to say Ebay just say Ebay.

ScottF
06-09-2009, 08:42 PM
I've had no luck landing a nice (vintage) black fedora, so I wound up ordering one from Art Fawcett (Vintage Silhouettes):
...
No problem landing nice hombergs and bowlers in black, but a fedora with a 2 1/2 in felted edge brim? don't see many of them, and they fetch a good price.

Same experience here - just a homburg that was one size short. But I do have a carbon Borsalino that I LOVE :)

http://oldsplice.homestead.com/Hats/BMascotte1.jpg

I've got this wide-brim Stetson arriving tomorrow and I'm really really hoping my karma's been good enough that it's black and not dark-grey:

http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!BT0,kZQBWk~$(KGrHgoOKj!EjlLm,WqpBKKbkrIejQ~~_1.JP G

http://i.ebayimg.com/05/!BT0,f4w!2k~$(KGrHgoOKigEjlLm,etkBKKbkUzu2Q~~_1.JP G

Dreispitz
06-09-2009, 09:50 PM
In contrast to the US, black was very common for hats in Europe. Silverbelly and other light tones were and still are quite uncommon, over here.

The downside of vintage black fedoras, one comes across, is, they are usually well worn.

Jauntyone
06-10-2009, 04:19 AM
In contrast to the US, black was very common for hats in Europe. Silverbelly and other light tones were and still are quite uncommon, over here.

Interesting observation, Dreispitz. Why do you think this is; is it just fashion, or is there some other reason?
When I wear my silver mist or smoke blue VS hats here in France, people tell me they find it strange or unusual to see a light-colored hat. They also find wide ribbons strange[huh] .

Dreispitz
06-10-2009, 05:20 AM
Interesting observation, Dreispitz. Why do you think this is; is it just fashion, or is there some other reason?
When I wear my silver mist or smoke blue VS hats here in France, people tell me they find it strange or unusual to see a light-colored hat. They also find wide ribbons strange[huh] .

Historically, it certinly has got a lot to do with Spanish ranaissance court fashion. The black-white colour scheme replaced the coulourful mediaeval court fashion in many places in Europe. Well, America had just been discovered at that time and local hat fashion was more a feather thingy :p ;) Talking of which, the feather thingy is still reminiscent in the little feathers, one can find attached to sweatbands in the US. Not in Europe, nota bene, if not in falknerīs or Italian mountain trouperīhats.

Yes, when I am looking for a stylish light coloured Golden Aera hat with a broad ribbon, I have to look at US sources.

Back to black. Indeed the color scheme for civilian town hats in Europe from the 16th century to the present day is black, dark gray, sometimes brown. For hunting, sports, leisure: green, brown, natural wool loden gray. In summer light natural colour straw or caps.

The lighter colors in terms of felt fedoras were only to be found as either spring fashion or in warmer climate areas, like southern France ot Italy. In the northern hemisphere it would be considerd bohemien. Black or dark gray suit and white or silverbelly hat: definitely a no go!

I actually went into a hatterīs asking for a light gray hat, this year. She said, such a thing would not sell and she has not had a demand for such in decades. In the 20ies to the mid 40ies, it would have been diferent.

So, there you are: its is mainly a psychosocial reason, geography and temporary fashion and: availability :)

Viper Man
06-10-2009, 06:23 AM
Here is a Disney "Mr. Disney" that I recently sold to a member here...

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1457/5723533/20034033/363850389.jpg

Here is a Cavnagh stingy that I have creased as a porkpie...

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1457/5723533/21719653/360427022.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1457/5723533/21719653/360427036.jpg

And my absolute favorite vintage hat, a Cavanagh with a 5 1/2" crown and 2 3/8" brim. It has a fantastic purple ribbon...

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1457/5723533/21719653/358131038.jpg

mayserwegener
06-10-2009, 07:55 AM
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2627/22/117/768896892/n768896892_1497997_7568734.jpg

carouselvic
06-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Borsalino
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5027/hat013.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/i/hat013.jpg/)
Alexander
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5167/gwalexander003op2.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/gwalexander003op2.jpg/)
Borsalino
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9964/borsalinoleo002gx5.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/i/borsalinoleo002gx5.jpg/)

Derbies, Westerns and Homburgs are often found in black.

Lefty
06-10-2009, 09:35 AM
It looks like at least a few of these are black.

1898
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/erikandgina/Hat%20Ads/PhotographbyFARinehart1898.jpg

hatted
06-10-2009, 10:03 AM
What I generally see is either black homburgs, or hats with really wide ribbons and tiny brims. I don't want those. I've always seen those as 'old men's' hats -- it takes less effort to care for them, or whatever (and I always seem to see them on senior citizens). Wide ribbon+tiny brim+black is just a bad combination to my eye. I'm sure some of you out there will disagree, but that's my take.

ScottF
06-10-2009, 10:44 AM
It looks like at least a few of these are black.

1898



Lefty, that isn't an 1898 bicycle over on the left.

besdor
06-10-2009, 11:20 AM
From what I've seen over the years is that 99% of the vintage black hats that are available are derbies and top hats. Very few people wore black "soft" hats. The popular colors back then were light gray , beige and similar colors. Even the religious hat market did not start to wear black until 30 years ago. I have two or three black vintage hats from the 1930's . Thats it.


Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

hatted
06-10-2009, 11:26 AM
Hey Steven, since you're at Bencraft, I have a question: How the heck did the brims get so wide on "religious" Borsalino fedoras? I've never measured, but the brims seem to be running 4 or 5 inches (more?). They're just too wide -- fedoras masquerading as cowboy hats.

Lefty
06-10-2009, 12:30 PM
Lefty, that isn't an 1898 bicycle over on the left.

I'm just going by the caption posted by the Omaha Public Library. (http://www.omahapubliclibrary.org/transmiss/research/cleanhtml/tmi00669.html)

besdor
06-10-2009, 01:41 PM
Hatted, the brims started to get wider during the late 1980's. At that point , the average brim was 2 3/4 " . Today, it is 3 3/4" !!! BUt it seems to be getting smaller lately. However , black is still the number one color in Brooklyn.




Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

jamespowers
06-10-2009, 02:21 PM
There were a few produced over time;) :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/jamespowers2005/523DOBBS.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/jamespowers2005/Stetsonoldside2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/jamespowers2005/1950Knox.jpg
1950 Knox

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/jamespowers2005/a3_1_b.jpg

I tried to find a picture of my Black Playboy that I frequently wear when out with a tuxedo to no avail. I love that hat. :D

carouselvic
06-10-2009, 02:30 PM
Here is a black Playboy now owned by Carter(he only made the initial payment) TLH

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9573/playboy006jh8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/playboy006jh8.jpg/)

DOUGLAS
06-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Stetson#1
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/dsr-hat/stetson/DSCN4047.jpg
Turgis
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/dsr-hat/hats/DSCN6538.jpg
Stetson "the royal stetson"
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/dsr-hat/hats/DSCN3861.jpg
Knox
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/dsr-hat/Knox/DSCN7201.jpg

hatted
06-10-2009, 03:53 PM
There's a vintage black Trimbles fedora on ebay right now that I would bid on, but the brim is 2 inches. I need more brim!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Mens-Felt-Fedora-Sz-7-1-8-NICE_W0QQitemZ140324914923QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVinta ge_Men_s_Women_s_Accessories?hash=item20ac0446eb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1|66%3A4|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0| 293%3A1|294%3A200

feltfan
06-10-2009, 04:34 PM
Lefty, that isn't an 1898 bicycle over on the left.
That was my first thought, too. The drop handle bars seem
particularly anachronistic. But who knows.

hatted, please do not post "live" auctions.

Garrett
06-10-2009, 04:40 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/jamespowers2005/Stetsonoldside2.jpg



James, can you post a liner shot of this one?

hatted
06-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Sorry!

jamespowers
06-10-2009, 05:03 PM
James, can you post a liner shot of this one?

I'll have to see if I can get a picture. It is a Stetson with a Red seal label on a cream colored background. Likely 1930s from what I can surmise.
I suppose the plush finishes were more common then. I have a green plush one around here somewhere from Capper and Capper---without a liner.

handlebar bart
06-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Royal Stetson
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5712/blacklid027.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9056/blacklid026d.jpg

gtdean48
06-28-2009, 01:16 PM
The original ribbon is gone so I went to Major Moore for a 2 ply ribbon. I also have 2 red thin ribbons to use when football season gets here & I go to the UGA games = Go Dawgs!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/GTDean48/Hats/BlackORblack.jpg
(the red is deeper red than photos are showing)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/GTDean48/Hats/BlackORred1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/GTDean48/Hats/BlackORred2.jpg