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Warbaby
08-30-2009, 12:54 PM
I found this shirt at the thrift store a couple of days ago and bought it because I love the fabric (as well as the fact that it was in apparently unworn condition and cost $1.50 on half-price day). My knowledge of formal wear is minimal, but I think this is meant to be a formal shirt. How is a shirt like this worn - with what does one wear a shirt like this? What sort of tie?


http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/HawesCurtis1shirt.jpg

http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/HawesCurtis5label.jpg

The collar has a very wide spread and is quite tall - 2" neckband and 2 1/4" tall at the back.

http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/HawesCurtis2collar.jpg

http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/HawesCurtis3cuff.jpg

http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/HawesCurtis4fabric.jpg

Another thing that I'm wondering about - the button holes are all vertical except for the one at the bottom which is horizontal. Is there a reason for that?

Tomasso
08-30-2009, 01:36 PM
It's a dress shirt with contrasting collar/cuffs meant to be worn with suits/blazer/sportcoats. The horizontal bottom buttonhole serves to lockthe placket, thus keeping the pattern matching

Tomasso
08-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Here are a couple of mine from Turnbull & Asser (http://www.turnbullandasser.com/[url), probably the preeminent purveyor of the contrasting collar/cuff look.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/tmgco/Shoes503.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/tmgco/Shoes507.jpg

Warbaby
08-30-2009, 02:00 PM
But how do I get a tie to work with that 2" high double-button neckband? Should I use a Windsor or one of the other wide knot styles?

billyspew
08-30-2009, 02:14 PM
I have a couple of shirts with that style of collar (one is from Hawes & Curtis on Jermyn Street), I think they call it a Milan style.

On the Hawes & Curtis site they do give some advice... (http://www.hawesandcurtis.com/how-to-tie-a-tie.asp)

Carlisle Blues
08-30-2009, 02:15 PM
The Windsor knot is a wide triangular knot that is usually worn for formal occasions, this type of knot should be worn with wide spread collar shirts.

Warbaby I think this would work just fine...

http://www.tieguide.com/windsor.htm

Tomasso
08-30-2009, 02:52 PM
But how do I get a tie to work with that 2" high double-button neckband?
Be like Mike. ;)


http://www.roadsafe.com/magazine/2007summer/images/look_to_safety.jpg

Lokar
08-31-2009, 10:28 AM
It can't be particularly formal as it's not white. There is no formal or even semi-formal dress code that allows for anything but a white shirt, preferably a dress shirt (that is, a pleated or boiled front shirt - I don't know what the American term is for this). I'd say it's just a somewhat singular normal shirt (that is, dress shirt for Americans. This is getting confusing...)

The Windsor knot is probably the only knot that would look appropriate in a collar that size, as mentioned. I don't feel that it's too formal a knot, however, although maybe on the other side of the pond things are different.

I don't personally have any advice to offer regarding what to wear it with, however, but Tomasso's suggestion to wear the shirt with a sports coat or blazer sounds appropriate to me.

Edward
09-01-2009, 04:56 AM
FWIW, I most commonly see that style of shirt worn in the city as daywear, typically accompanied by a navy, two-piece pinstripe suit.

Richard Warren
09-02-2009, 09:48 AM
I always regarded a contrasting collar and cuff as a more casual style.

Warbaby
09-02-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks to all for the opinions and wearing advice. While the consensus seems to be that this is a more casual sort of dress shirt than I thought, Prince Charles wore a very similar shirt with a grey morning suit to this year's Ascot Races. Of course, when one is a prince, I suppose one can wear whatever one bloody well pleases...


http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/RoyalAscot2009Day1.jpg

http://www.warbaby.com/fedorapix/RoyalAscot2009day2.jpg

Dan D
09-03-2009, 11:44 AM
According to Roetzel's book 'Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion,' the contrasting collar and cuffs shirt evolved as a compromise in the nineteenth century between the white shirt worn by the idle rich, who did not need to soil their shirts with anything as mundane as 'work' - I paraphrase slightly here... - and the colourful shirt, which was suspected of being worn to hide a state of uncleanliness. The contrasting collar/cuffs that peeked beyond the jacket therefore signified the wearer was still above manual labour, but wanted to wear shirts that were colourful rather than white.

Oh to be independently wealthy... or at the very least, without a mortgage!

Richard Warren
09-03-2009, 12:55 PM
That fellow has all the money, prestige, etc. in the world, but he still looks utterly pathetic.

Torpedo
09-03-2009, 01:48 PM
That fellow has all the money, prestige, etc. in the world, but he still looks utterly pathetic.

[huh] ? ? ? ? [huh]

David V
09-03-2009, 02:26 PM
We are having a communication problem here.
The OP is asking about this shirt for which he is giving the British designation of a formal, meaning worn with suit and tie.

Some posters are replying that it is not formal in the American English definition. As meaning worn with Black Tie.

This is an American dress shirt( British formal)

From the length of the cuffs and height of the collar I place it in the 70's. I think I wore it in the 70's!!

A thick, Windsor knotted tie would work best, IMHO.

Carlisle Blues
09-03-2009, 02:40 PM
We are having a communication problem here.
The OP is asking about this shirt for which he is giving the British designation of a formal, meaning worn with suit and tie.

Some posters are replying that it is not formal in the American English definition. As meaning worn with Black Tie.

This is an American dress shirt( British formal)

From the length of the cuffs and height of the collar I place it in the 70's. I think I wore it in the 70's!!

A thick, Windsor knotted tie would work best, IMHO.


How dare you interrupt this nonsense with sensible discussion and great pointers...:eusa_doh:

Tomasso
09-03-2009, 03:00 PM
We are having a communication problem here.
The OP is asking about this shirt for which he is giving the British designation of a formal, meaning worn with suit and tie.
I don't think so. Warbaby isn't British and since he's referenced
the POW's morning dress I believe he's using the American definition.

Warbaby
09-03-2009, 04:32 PM
I wasn't aware of the difference between British and American definitions of formal. I referred to it as formal because that was the term Hawes & Curtis used to describe the style on their website - hence my confusion and the reason for my original post.

I wouldn't wear it with formal wear in the American context, but I think it's a nifty shirt that will look good with a suit or dressy jacket.

Carlisle Blues
09-04-2009, 04:58 AM
Windsor Light Blue End on End (White Collar/Cuff) Shirt

http://www.hawesandcurtis.com/mens-formal-shirts--ref_MS-WI2466

http://www.hawesandcurtis.com/images/images/products/_NewSite/Windsor/MS-WI2466m.jpg

LordBest
09-04-2009, 06:08 AM
Do you think so? I personally think he is the best dressed public figure of recent years.


That fellow has all the money, prestige, etc. in the world, but he still looks utterly pathetic.

dhermann1
09-04-2009, 06:29 AM
Do you think so? I personally think he is the best dressed public figure of recent years.
I agree. The poor guy can't help his nose and ears, after all. To be a Royal means to look like a horse.

Highlander
09-04-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't have any "Bespoke" style shirts with the double button collar,but I do wear a lot of Contrasting Color shirts, usually blue or blue pinstripe with white collar and cuffs (usually french cuffs), and my friends all call them my "TOM WOLFE" Shirts, as he often wears that style of shirt.