Details and Options

[Matt Deckard]

Welt Pocket
http://images12.fotki.com/v239/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1772-vi.jpg

Besom Pocket
http://images14.fotki.com/v255/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1787-vi.jpg

Flap Pocket
http://images15.fotki.com/v227/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1788-vi.jpg

Patch Pocket With 1/4 inch machine stitch around the edge
http://images14.fotki.com/v247/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1782-vi.jpg

Patch Pocket with Flap
http://images15.fotki.com/v234/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1790-vi.jpg

Saddle Bag Pocket
http://images15.fotki.com/v229/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1778-vi.jpg

Functional Collar button
http://images15.fotki.com/v234/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1786-vi.jpg

Functional Sleeve Buttons
http://images15.fotki.com/v228/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1779-vi.jpg

Peak Lapel
http://images3.fotki.com/v35/photos/8/83243/347917/Dsc03306-vi.jpg

Armpit Sweat Shield
http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1780-vi.jpg

[Matt Deckard]

Belt back 1
http://images14.fotki.com/v248/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1784-vi.jpg

Belt Back 2
http://images15.fotki.com/v235/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1785-vi.jpg

http://images.marketworks.com/hi/54/53881/jp382b.jpg

Belt Back 3
http://images3.fotki.com/v34/photos/8/83243/347917/Dsc03310-vi.jpg

[scotrace]

Is the one with the functional lapel and sleeve buttons the Peterman?

[Matt Deckard]

Is the one with the functional lapel and sleeve buttons the Peterman?

Yes...

[Flitcraft]

Matt:
Where did you get the gray jacket with the recoil pad, working sleeve buttons and bi-swing back?

[Matt Deckard]

Matt:
Where did you get the gray jacket with the recoil pad, working sleeve buttons and bi-swing back?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=5290

J. peterman makes the nicest things.

[Hemingway Jones]

Great post, Matt.
I have heard the functional sleeve buttons called "Surgeon's Cuffs." Have you heard this?
I recently bought a single-breatsed suit with peak lapels, functional sleeve buttons, and a bright retro-style lining. I will be posting pics soon. I think you'll like it, Matt.
BTW, I couldn't agree more with your opinion of Peterman. He, or they, are the only company that shares my sensibilities.

[Matt Deckard]

They have been called surgeons's cuffs yes; though the style outdates the term.

[Senator Jack]

Great post, Matt. I had never read of no-flap pockets being called Besom pockets.

Should you have some time on your hands, how about a post of fabrics and stitchings?

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Prof. Ed]

I own a navy blue pinstripe sweater by Polo, that has the belted back and the many pleats above it.
I love the belted back and bi-swing arms in a sport coat. Especially, to wear teaching and when writing on the board.

[BellyTank]

Matt, what you call a 'Besom' pocket is also widely known as a (plain) 'Welt' pocket- just like on a pants' back pocket. As we all know, a welt pocket can have a flap or not- on many suit jackets, the flap can be 'out' or 'in'- when it's in, it looks like it's not there at all and just the welt shows-

A Besom is a Witches Broomstick-

B
T

[Baron Kurtz]

Matt, what you call a 'Besom' pocket is also widely known as a (plain) 'Welt' pocket- just like on a pants' back pocket. As we all know, a welt pocket can have a flap or not- on many suit jackets, the flap can be 'out' or 'in'- when it's in, it looks like it's not there at all and just the welt shows-

A Besom is a Witches Broomstick-

B
T


Isn't that also known as a "Jetted" pocket? I think i saw it called that somewhere ...

bk

[shamus]

I had a good thrifting day today. I just picked up a jacket very similar to the one above. Belted back, patch/style pockets with flaps and pleats, action back. Unfortunatly it's too small for me so tomorrow I'll take some pics and offer it in the classifieds section.

I also got a sweet double breasted formal jacket (just the bottom part buttons) with very peak lapels. Say's it's a 44 long, my size but seams a tad too big even for me.

I wish the belted one was my size... Nice jacket Matt

[Matt Deckard]

Great post, Matt. I had never read of no-flap pockets being called Besom pockets.

Should you have some time on your hands, how about a post of fabrics and stitchings?

Regards,

Senator Jack

Soon!

[Mr. Rover]

I just bought a suit with pit guards that are made of the suit fabric instead of an extra layer of lining. Is that unsusual?

[Matt Deckard]

That is something I would like to see. can you take some pictures?

[Robert Conway]

Speaking of details, here is a rather strange looking suit.
Never seen one of these before.

Hope it's ok to post this link to ebay, in this section...


http://tinyurl.com/bhr5n


Robert Conway

[Marc Chevalier]

It's a late 1960s Carnaby Street piece (or a Hong Kong knock-off from the time).

[Mr. Rover]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/WrongEra/Vintage/DSC00935.jpg
For Matt Deckard:
The armpit sweat-shield is made of the wool of the jacet, not another layer of lining. No, it isn't just a patch of lining missing. It's actually a piece of the jacket material.

[Matt Deckard]

Look like the maker trying to show the buyer that they spared no expense in making the suit.

I usually see the satin, though the leads me to believe that they had wool to spare.

Top drawer!

I still have some lining pics to show from an Oxxford, some vintage suits and a few other moderns.

Also different stitching types. Keep your eyes pealed for updates to this thread.

[adamgottschalk]

I particularly appreciate the picures and naming of different pocket styles. Thanks.

[EL COLORADO]

Dont forget the pockets in pockets.
Also I got a couple zoot suits from the early 40's that have horizontal pocket openings on the jackets.

EC

[EL COLORADO]

whoops!...i mean vertical pocket openings.

[Mr. Rover]

By pockets in pockets, do you mean coin catches?

[Matt Deckard]

Marc Chevalier mentioned that Oxxford back in their better days used to make suit that had pockets the bellowed inward to keep the line of your suit. that is something I'll try to get pics of as well.

[EL COLORADO]

By pockets in pockets, do you mean coin catches?


Uh,....yeah. Heh, heh. Coin catches.
:)

[Baron Kurtz]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/WrongEra/Vintage/DSC00935.jpg
For Matt Deckard:
The armpit sweat-shield is made of the wool of the jacet, not another layer of lining. No, it isn't just a patch of lining missing. It's actually a piece of the jacket material.

I just received a suit dated 1946 with such armpit shields.

bk

[EL COLORADO]

Dont forget flaps or little closure straps on pants seat pockets.



EC

[Matt Deckard]

Dont forget flaps or little closure straps on pants seat pockets.



EC

I'm taking pics

[fashionsense]

Any photo's of the old four (4) pocket patch pocket blazer or suits? I viewed once on an old 1930's -1940's movie. Very interesting look!

Fashionsense

[David V]

Isn't that also known as a "Jetted" pocket? I think i saw it called that somewhere ...

bk

Yep! Used in the UK.

[Briscoeteque]

Do any 40's 6 button Double-breasted suits have a one button closure, or is this strictly a later styling?

Also, have any double breasted suits ever had two non-functional and two functional buttons? I was just thinking how cool that would look, but while I've seen suits with two non-functional buttons and others with two functioning buttons, I've never seen suits with both.

[Wild Root]

Well, the six button double breasted style that only has the single lower button closure is a modern thing. In the 30?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s mostly there was a fad that lasted for a little wile which was a man would only button the lower button on a regular 6 button DB thus, allowing the top button hole to roll away from the button. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m not a fan of that look, it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s tough to pull off right.

In the 30?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and 40?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve seen four button DB suits. They were cut high compared to today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s suits. My self, I like high cut DB suits, don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t care for low cut anything really.

Hope that helps. ;)

=WR=

PS. Note the man on the far right, he's got the four button DB coat. Also note how the bottom button is left undone on the six button. Also, on the far left, note the four button coat has the two buttoning type with no top buttons like the six button style.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6711/70zv.jpg

[Senator Jack]

I have one four button/one to use DB and as far as button style goes, that's my favorite. It's pretty much like style 110 in the ad. I also have one 8 button/all to use DB. The gorge is of course extremely high and as it is solid green it comes off as a bit militaristic. I don't know when the 8 button was introduced - I'm thinking late 60s, and maybe it's the shirt and tie I'm wearing with it, but whenever I wear it, I think it all looks very Felix Unger.

Regards,

Senator Jack

[Martina]

Matt, thanks for the pocket information!!

What's the difference between the saddle and patch pockets? Is it the rounded versus the squared off corners?

I agree with the request for the fabrics information -could you include the different patterns of plaids?

Martina :)

[Matt Deckard]

The patch pockets are simple sheets of fabric sewn on the jacket. The saddle are constructed pouches.

I'll get the patterns and linings for show in a bit.

[chloe]

How do these pockets date a suit? Do they repesent a different era? Trying to gather this info. Thanks.

[herringbonekid]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/herringbonekid/beltloops.jpg

notice that the above trousers all have an extra belt loop near the fastening to hold the belt more securely in place. three of them are 1930s, but the top brown pair may be 40s or even 50s. this is geeky i know, but does anyone have any idea if these mysterious extra belt-loops are a reliable form of dating a pair of trousers ? do you have a pair from the 50s or later ?

(Wild Root, about your recent PM....i'm not a purist 30s nerd, just a clothing detective) ;)

[Wild Root]

(Wild Root, about your recent PM....i'm not a purist 30s nerd, just a clothing detective) ;)

I know... but, I am!lol

=WR=

[resortes805]

I noticed that alot of my vintage trousers have shorter belt loops under the regular belt loops. Is this just left over belt loop material, or are these shorter loops designed for thinner belts?

[Orgetorix]

notice that the above trousers all have an extra belt loop near the fastening to hold the belt more securely in place. three of them are 1930s, but the top brown pair may be 40s or even 50s. this is geeky i know, but does anyone have any idea if these mysterious extra belt-loops are a reliable form of dating a pair of trousers ? do you have a pair from the 50s or later ?


I have a Hart Schaffner Marx suit that has the extra loop on the trousers, and I'm pretty sure it isn't any older than the 1980s.

[Marc Chevalier]

Do any 40's 6 button Double-breasted suits have a one button closure?

Believe it or not, the answer is yes. However, it was very, very rare. I've only seen two '40s double-breasted 6-button jackets that had a one-button closure. Actually, Wild Root has seen them too, though he may not remember.


** Wild Root, do you remember a mustard-colored DB suit that Peter Loggins bought from Beauregard (and Beauregard bought from the Melrose Aardvark's ;) )? And do you remember a very strange dark grey tweedy jacket that Ben McGinty found (with mutton shoulders and notched lapels)?


.

[Happy Stroller]

Actually, Prince George, the Duke of Kent, is credited with the introduction of what looks like a 6x1 DB jacket in the late 1920s.

At the risk of committing some more historical errors, I believe he sat on the British throne as George VI in 1936, succeeding his brother the Duke of Windsor who succeeded their father, George V, in 1936. The Duke of Windsor reigned as Edward VIII, but was forced to abdicate by the British Prime Minister. So 1936 is known in British history as the Year of the Three Kings.

[Happy Stroller]

I have one four button/one to use DB and as far as button style goes, that's my favorite. It's pretty much like style 110 in the ad. I also have one 8 button/all to use DB. The gorge is of course extremely high and as it is solid green it comes off as a bit militaristic. I don't know when the 8 button was introduced - I'm thinking late 60s, and maybe it's the shirt and tie I'm wearing with it, but whenever I wear it, I think it all looks very Felix Unger.

Regards,

Senator Jack
===================== End of quote =====================
Are all buttons of your 8-button DB jacket all buttonable at the same time, or only up to 4 at a time?

Does anyone know whether 6-button military jackets are 6x6?

[manton]

At the risk of committing some more historical errors, I believe he sat on the British throne as George VI in 1936, succeeding his brother the Duke of Windsor who succeeded their father, George V, in 1936. The Duke of Windsor reigned as Edward VIII, but was forced to abdicate by the British Prime Minister. So 1936 is known in British history as the Year of the Three Kings.
No, Edward VIII's brother Albert, duke of York (the second son), became George VI. You are correct that the duke of Kent (the fourth son in the family) is credited with creating or at least popularizing the long roll DB.

[Marc Chevalier]

Do any 40's 6 button Double-breasted suits have a one button closure, or is this strictly a later styling?

Well, the six button double breasted style that only has the single lower button closure is a modern thing.



Almost, but not quite, true. Surprisingly, it did exist in the '40s. A picture from 1941:



------------------ http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j62/cleydael/IMG_1417.jpg


.

[Matt Deckard]

The all too common really bad fit on a one button functional is a modern thing. Mostly a problem from super thin materials.

[JamesT1]

Mostly a problem from super thin materials.

This seems to lead to more problems than it is worth.

[PenMan]

Depends what you want. One of my goals is always to find the thinnest, unlined fabric available since I spend much of my time in Australia. It works just as well in a Chicago or New York winter since most people live, work and eat in climate controlled homes, offices and restaurants all year round.

Of course, wools have advanced so much in the last 50 years that a light weight can be as durable as an older heavy one. I also like linen and poplin. In the last 30 years, comfort has become a premium issue so things like bigger armholes and lighter fabrics have taken over. I would hate to see a step backward in terms of comfort as the trend toward better dressing standards loses steam. The vintage clothes that we like are better for a number of reasons: I don't think weight of fabric is one of the big ones.

[Baron Kurtz]

Raises an interesting point. The late 30s/early 40s suit that was found for me in Australia is absurdly heavy for the climate. And 3-piece. As heavy as any of my other golden era suits. Surely the guys in the golden era in Australia were not labouring under the weight of wool that was common in western Europe/North America etc. I'd imagined lightweight wools and linens/silks would have been prevalent ... maybe not.

As for comfort, i find that much of the modern perceived comfort is just that: Perceived. Higher armholes are NOT, in fact less comfortable than lower ones. By and large, thinner fabrics wear out quicker, and lower production standards (in off the peg and MTM) mean seams "go" (that is: give up) quicker than on the older suits.

For those of us who like to feel like we're WEARING something, the vintage heavyweights can't be beat. (obviously a cold climate helps.) The fact that my dry cleaner cannot carry two of my suits at the same time due to weight gives me a twang of sadistic pleasure (apparently she can easily carry 5 modern production 3-piece suits at the same time).

bk

[PenMan]

Australia until the 1970s was very British and, at least at the higher end of society, did little to adapt to the environment. In the 70s England was drawn into the European Union and to some degree abandoned Australia. Australians began for the first time to look to Asia for trade and inspiration.

My daughter's high school uniform is a green blazer, white shirt and black watch tartan skirt. At my son's school they wear grey wool jacket and pants with a green (white striped) rep tie and white shirt. Very English, very stylish,and pretty heavy, no doubt to hold up to the abuse a kid dishes out. I love the accents at the girl's school: for example, I have 'stolen' her black watch scarf. It is my favourite tartan.

[Fletch]

My problem with the lightweight fabrics is that they wrinkle so easily, and things like lapels and pan legs don't "blade" nicely - they just flop. OTOH, I'm hyperhydrotic, so they keep me somewhat more comfortable even if they get soaked. (and sometimes I can steam wrinkles out just by wearing them! :D )

[JamesT1]

Even though all my suits are modern, I prefer 13oz and above for my fabric (my current in-the-works suit is 20oz!). maybe it is because I have very little "insulation" and Chicago winters are not very forgiving, or maybe it is because they seem to drape better, who knows...

[Harry Pierpont]

What about inside jacket pockets? Most all my jackets have a small inside pocket on the lower left, makes a great pocket for a flask! ;)

[Orgetorix]

What about inside jacket pockets? Most all my jackets have a small inside pocket on the lower left, makes a great pocket for a flask! ;)

Indeed it does. It's usually called an inside ticket pocket, and I find it's just about perfect for my cell phone!

[adamgottschalk]

I've got to have several inside pockets: one for my wallet (with 3x5 cards), one for my spare pocket square (for ladies in particular, or perhaps for food mishaps), and one for a flask or similar item. Additionally, my jackets from mytailor.com have a pen pocket inside--never knew I needed one until my first night on the town with a pen pocket. My most recent sports coat has an outside ticket pocket--which I use for everything, tickets, coins, keys, etc.

[reetpleat]

I have had this suit siting around for years and am offering it to a fl member I think it will fit well. NEver looked too closely at it. Assumed it was late forties, but seems maybe a little older. Do you think this is kind of Young man's new style as displayed in this ad below. Can't figure out how to post pics but here are some links.

NOt quite as long below the buttons, or maybe the buttons are just a little lower. Would you say this is meant to be a bit biggish in the shoulders. the shoulders kind of fit, but the torso is pretty snug. I think it is a bout a size smaller than I am.

No label except a coat hook strip on the back of neck that says lining of rayon. I am usually pretty good at dating suits, but this one is an odd one. I would almost expect this style to be a light weight gab, but it is a heavier wool. Any ideas as to date?

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?1ddabd3e2f.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?ad7fac1176.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?931ffcbeca.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?063e0292dd.jpg

[Mr. Rover]

Are there any union labels in the pockets?

[reetpleat]

Are there any union labels in the pockets?


Nothing I can find anywhere, except the collar loop which says lining of rayon. It seems to be good quality, and I would almost think it is custom, but the collar loop.

[resortes805]

It definately looks like model no. 110 in the fashion illustration. I've seen similar suits in old photos of post war Bebop musicians.

What are some of the details on the pants, waistband, no waistband? Tunnel loops, dropped loops, no loops?

If I found a suit like that in my size It would certainly be one my favorites!

[Jovan]

Fascinating. The ad describes the common 6x2 as we call it as a "three button double breasted style." Similarly, the other two are referred to as "two button."

[cookie]

I have just watched the new series of the Agatha Christie series of Hercule Poirot - a British production.Tonight's episode was Murder on the Nile and was actually a bit better than the film - methinks.

Anyway we had a stunning arrray of 30s cream linen (almost Palm Beach cloth quality) suits of the jacket plus 8 button darty bits at the ends waistcoat style (for Poirot and the head murderer) accompanied by Poirot with a fetching straw Homburg and the other guy with a raffish straw Fedora, the Jungle Jim/big white hunter in town for resupply style linen suit for the titled Bolshevik, a Belt back and other British double breasters (James Fox in second appearance as the Brit policeman) and for all you desperates (see thread on when to wear a Fez) it was Fez wearers a go go among the locals and policemen.

The whole scene was Fedora Lounge heaven/nirvana where we were all get transported (not to Botany Bay) but back to our true intended generation instead of the accidental boring 70s etc drudgery and we do it on an Edwardian era paddle wheel steamer called Karnak. See you at the the Third cataract right?

I digress - the real question is how did they all walk around in the Egyptian sun in all this clobber? This relates to the question re Aussies in the 30s. Why? - because they did! They were used to it - it was the way it was - people simply wore more clothing and put up with it. Like some guys get used to wearing a suit all the time and do not get troubled by wearing it all year round.

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Like some guys get used to wearing a suit all the time and do not get troubled by wearing it all year round.

From experience, it's more the environment that has difficulties in getting used to your wearing a suit than you yourself.

Anyways, today's fabrics are lighter and, unless plastic, at least as permeable to air, and apart from that, you can opt for quarter lining. If I afford myself a tailor-made suit for the warmer seasons, I'll probably do that, at least in case cut and cloth of the suit don't look different then.

[Jovan]

One of the coolest "desert suits" I've seen is the Marrakesh at Magnoli clothiers. Looks really comfortable, and very 1930s.

[herringbonekid]

late 20s/early 30s waist adjuster:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/herringbonekid/1920swaistadjuster.jpg

note the buckle is attatched with a piece of muslin backing only. these would have been a cheap pair of trousers for the average working man.


(not my photo, or trousers)

[mdavids2000]

Today on a street market here in Amsterdam i found a original 1930's suit, the ask $5,- euro. So the din't know:-)

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2055/foto23th3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9222/foto24ld2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jovan]

Wow. :eek:

What size and how much?

[Mr. Rover]

Getting my suit in Shanghai showed me how little details can vary from tailor to tailor. Basically, the Chinese have very little style know-how. You tell three tailors to make you a peak lapel, you'll get 3 very different looking things. You have to be as specific as possible.
When I got my jacket for the fitting today, I noticed that the lapel on my DB jacket looked a little off...the lapels were TOO pointy. So, I asked the tailor to round off the tip....and at the time it seemed right to round off the collar side of the lapel, too. Was that the right choice?
The jacket from Amsterdam above has very defined edges, but on some of the American stuff, the lapels are much more rounded.

[Baron Kurtz]

amsterdam suit great. The photos are reversed, right?

Where (what part of amsterdam) was the street market?

bk

[mdavids2000]

This part of Amsterdam:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/edusoft/waterloo/indexeng.html

[GBR]

Besom Pocket
http://images14.fotki.com/v255/photos/8/83243/2900853/IMG_1787-vi.jpg

Also known as a double jetted pocket in UK and double piped pocket in Hong Kong.

[Anthony Jordan]

This part of Amsterdam:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/edusoft/waterloo/indexeng.html

Ah yes - perhaps one day my wife will let me visit!

[mdavids2000]

Ah yes - perhaps one day my wife will let me visit!
Will be nice just let us know

[reetpleat]

I am afraid that if loungers think that they can find suits like that in Amsterdam for five euros, you will be overwhelmed with visitors.

So, does the suit fit you. Pics of you in it if you can.

[Feraud]

A random trouser with a rear adjustment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03350.jpg
Front detail of same pants
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03349.jpg


Rear of lapel button hole on tuxedo.
I assume the string at the lower end is to hold the stem of a flower in place. A nifty detail.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03327.jpg
Front of jacket
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03326.jpg
Rear adjustment of tux pants that go with the above jacket
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03322.jpg
Side pocket button
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC03323.jpg

Side waist adjustment on pair of pants.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC02874.jpg

Another waist adjuster that buttons. From an emerald green/gold sharkskin suit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC02769.jpg
Yep, they are really this color!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC02767.jpg

Working sleeve buttons from a tweed suit.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/feraud/Clothes/DSC02058.jpg

[Shearer]

Feraud - The green sharkskin is even better in person!

The first pair of pants and first jacket are great... thread stitch for a flower stem? Awesome!

[Feraud]

Feraud - The green sharkskin is even better in person!

The first pair of pants and first jacket are great... thread stitch for a flower stem? Awesome!
The first pair of pants is such an amazing textile! If I had a suit in that material I would be thrilled beyond words.

I loooove the sharkskin.

[Nigel Fisher]

Great thread! Very helpful to those of us who have very little experience or knowledge in the area.

[Feraud]

The first pair of pants and first jacket are great... thread stitch for a flower stem? Awesome!
I think Mr.Rover has a dinner jacket with a similar feature. I recall him discussing this feature.

[Justdog]

Yes...

Belt Back 3 That! Is one nice jacket

[adamjaskie]

Anyone seen a belt back with... "fake" pleats? I mean, the pleats are there, but they are sewn in place and are just kind of flaps of fabric; they provide no freedom of movement. I just got something like that on a sport coat I picked up at St. Vincent's for $8, so no big loss, but I found it kind of strange. As far as I can tell, I could pick out the stitches and they would be functional; the fabric is pleated and folded over as usual, but stitched together at the base of the pleat.

[MrBern]

Anyone seen a belt back with... "fake" pleats? I mean, the pleats are there, but they are sewn in place and are just kind of flaps of fabric; they provide no freedom of movement. I just got something like that on a sport coat I picked up at St. Vincent's for $8, so no big loss, but I found it kind of strange. As far as I can tell, I could pick out the stitches and they would be functional; the fabric is pleated and folded over as usual, but stitched together at the base of the pleat.

Ive recently seen a RalphLauren beltback that had a centerpleat down the back. It wasnt functional, jsut a fetish detail w/ no extra material to warrant picking out the stitching.
It was a cream color linen jkt w/ surgeon sleeves.

[adamjaskie]

Looking more closely it seems that there actually isn't anything that would warrant picking out the stitching. It SEEMS to be a second panel sewn in at the pleat that goes from the pleat to the sleeve (judging by what I can feel of the edges of cloth and angles/thicknesses of stitching and folds by squeezing and feeling around the fabric). Weird construction, I think, but I'm not very knowledgeable about such things.

It's a grey Strathmore SB 2B with patch pockets and notch lapel. 100% wool, grey tweed, with red and blue flecks randomly strewn about. Fits me reasonably well. No stains, seems pretty clean, but smells like it's been sitting in a St. Vincent's for a few months, so I'll be taking it to the cleaners tomorrow most likely. I'm not sure how old it is, but it doesn't seem to be very aged.

[dhermann1]

I've just been skimming this whole thread. Very informative.
There was one comment a couple of pages back about a surprisingly heavy wool suit being worn in the hot climate of Australia. I think that in that era heavy wool was not uncommon in hot climates. Baseball uniforms of the 20's and 30's were made of horse blanket heavy wool. Arabs in the desert wear heavy wool bernouses. I believe that wool in these situations absorbs the moisture (sweat) form the body and evaporates it slowly, keeping the wearer cool. At least that's the explanation I've always heard.
That sort of leads to another issue, that of cleaning. If these suits were absorbing that much sweat they MUST have been cleaned regularly SOMEHOW. Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

[Matt Deckard]

Benefit of a stouter wool is that it takes to sponging and pressing better, it doesn't need dry cleaning as often as the lighter softer wools which take on stains easier. You can be rough with a spot on a dense wool. On a modern super and often more flimsy wool you have to baby the material lest you want to mess it up.

The heavier wools of the past also have the benefit of being able to be woven in looser weaves which allows more airflow.

[Rachael]

Forgive this if it's a repeat, I didn't sift through all the pages.

How common (or not) are bound buttonholes as opposed to corded/stitched buttonholes? In 19th century suits they seem to have been common but the more I look at 20th century it appears that stitched buttonholes are almost exclusive. Are bound buttonholes solely on overcoats? Or is it simply that they were on bespoke suits which makes them so uncommon?

I still can't decide with is a more time consuming method, and tend to waver between the two based on the tightness of the fabric.

[SteveN]

Am I the only one that sees broken image links at the start of this thread? For example the one for "arm sweatshield"?

I've tried reloading and clearing the cache, several days apart, but still get a broken link icon for a few of the images.

- SteveN

[Feraud]

Am I the only one that sees broken image links at the start of this thread? For example the one for "arm sweatshield"?

I've tried reloading and clearing the cache, several days apart, but still get a broken link icon for a few of the images.

- SteveN
Broken image links are possible if the person has deleted the pics from their account.

[SteveN]

Does anyone have any pictures & examples of side vents, cash pockets & bi-swing pleats?

Putting together a 'wish list' for an upcoming bespoke suit I want to have made.

Regards,
- SteveN

[carter]

Look at:

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/

and

http://www.bookster1uk.com/

[SteveN]

Thanks. I've been all over the Magnoli site (am thinking of using him for one of the suits), and now over the bookster site, but haven't seen an explanation of what those features are. Seems either of them could provide them, but I'm not even sure what a 'side vent' is!

Cheers,
- SteveN



Look at:

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/

and

http://www.bookster1uk.com/

[carter]

Side vents are found in jackets that are double-vented. That is a vent on either side in the back. Jackets either are unvented, center-vented, or double/side vented.