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r00tuk
04-03-2011, 01:39 AM
Greetings fellow hatters!

Apologies if this has been covered in another thread - which I obviously failed locate - but I am trying to find out if there is a recommended crown height in relation to person height, face type or occasion? What is the generally accepted as too high or low, or is it a matter of getting used to it over time? Is there a measurement range for low, medium and high category crowns?

I am wearing my Fed IV with a tear drop bash with a front crown height of 10cm (4 inches) and I am 6ft tall. I changed it to a centre crease but could not get the crown lower than 12.5 cm so went back to the tear drop. Anymore than 10cm, I think it begins to look and feel like too much hat, but that could just be me being relatively new to wearing them.

I have seen the www.felthats.com - Choosing Hat Style page but does not provide specific measurements ranges for crowns.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

The Wiser Hatter
04-03-2011, 05:20 AM
http://www.millerhats.com/hatcare_index/hatfaces.html

Is this the page you looked at? This page shows how to pick a style based on facial shape.

gtdean48
04-03-2011, 05:46 AM
The symmetry of your facial shape below the brim should be in proportion to what is going on above the brim according to 1 article I've read. The distance to your jawline & chin should be balanced by the crown height. Some prefer taller crowns but how you think it looks in the mirror is the key, JMHO....

scottyrocks
04-03-2011, 06:21 AM
You may want to experiment over time with this hat.

When I got my first Fed IV, I creased it to be about as tall as possible. Over time, I decided that it was too tall and lowered it a touch. The nice thing about these hats is that they can be recreased as many times as desired.

Until you are pretty sure what you want, dont put sharp creases into it, though, because those are more difficult to get completely out than shallower, less sharp creases.

r00tuk
04-03-2011, 07:25 AM
The symmetry of your facial shape below the brim should be in proportion to what is going on above the brim according to 1 article I've read. The distance to your jawline & chin should be balanced by the crown height. Some prefer taller crowns but how you think it looks in the mirror is the key, JMHO....

Thanks! That explanation does help ... err; then I thought hang-on! Did you mean measure the jawline to chin, ie. from below the ear to the centre of the chin, or was it a vertical measurement from chin to where the brim lines up around the eye brows?

For my wife and myself, the 10cm crown height suites me but we don't see anybody else wearing boxy fedora/trilby crowns where I live: only tapered ones with stingy brims. If I measure as described above, then I could go for a centre crease which results in a taller crown. There is probably an element of conservatism on my part that makes me look in the mirror and think it does not suite, but given some time to get used to it would probably do the trick.

tonyb
04-03-2011, 07:45 AM
Discussions of aesthetics often morph into nature v. nurture debates -- do we like these particular proportions because they appeal to something innately human, or do they appeal to us because we've grown accustomed to them and have therefore deemed them "right"? -- debates which have yet to be satisfactorily resolved. Not that it really matters, though. As gtdean48 observed, what you see in the mirror is what counts. Many a fellow here tells of once believing he'd never wear a hat with a brim under (or over) 2 1/2 inches, say, or a crown shorter (or taller) than X number of inches, but then he found a hat at a vintage expo that violated one or the other or both of those criteria and he grew accustomed to the look of it atop his head and now it's his most-worn hat.

DRB
04-03-2011, 09:27 AM
I once read that the crown height of your hat should be the same as the distance from your chin to your eyes.

danofarlington
04-03-2011, 10:12 AM
Thanks! That explanation does help ... err; then I thought hang-on! Did you mean measure the jawline to chin, ie. from below the ear to the centre of the chin, or was it a vertical measurement from chin to where the brim lines up around the eye brows?

For my wife and myself, the 10cm crown height suites me but we don't see anybody else wearing boxy fedora/trilby crowns where I live: only tapered ones with stingy brims. If I measure as described above, then I could go for a centre crease which results in a taller crown. There is probably an element of conservatism on my part that makes me look in the mirror and think it does not suite, but given some time to get used to it would probably do the trick.

To get used to the look of high-crowned hats, you might peruse the website or Google "Stetson" anything on The Fedora Lounge, to see how they look. The vintage Stetson Open Road model hat, the kind most commonly seen here, is a high-crowned hat. The Akubra Campdraft is the same. Seeing them worn by a number of different people can help you decide whether it's for you or not. It think high crowns can work on a majority of men, but it's true you have to get used to them.

fmw
04-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Don't get all tangled up in this stuff. Crown height is simply a matter of personal preference. There is no right or wrong. Just different looks. Personally, I prefer low crowns. I'm in a minority. Nevertheless, I'm going to continue to prefer low crowns.

Having said that, in my avatar you can see me wearing my favorite hat which has a high straight sided crown. Go figure. Like I said, there is no right or wrong. ;)

r00tuk
04-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone which has all been useful. I reckon I could get away with a slightly taller crown without me looking odd to someone in the street. Back to the kettle and a bit of re-bashing!

:D

gtdean48
04-03-2011, 11:26 AM
Will add this since I have a math degree = appealing looks have a numerical relationship & a symmetry to them. Look up the Golden Ratio = phi.
Balance is initially pleasing so above the brim/below the brim balancing is probably based on the concept. That is what a lot of the facial shape stuff is about as well.
Your facial shape impacts the height of the crown, the degree of the pinch, etc.

The Good
04-03-2011, 09:38 PM
Although it largely depends on the hat, I'm generally not a fan of high crowns, being somewhere 4 5/8 or 4 3/4 inches and over when creased up top. For me it's more of a matter of it looking too big. I do agree with your 4 inch preference. That seems to look the best on me, and it's something I think works for most hat-wearers too. You don't actually want to get any lower than that unless you're looking for a porkpie, though...

Mario
05-27-2011, 08:38 AM
I do agree with your 4 inch preference. That seems to look the best on me, and it's something I think works for most hat-wearers too. You don't actually want to get any lower than that unless you're looking for a porkpie, though...

With most hats I actually prefer my crowns to be in the 4 3/4 - 5" range (diamond creased, of course... ;)). I absolutely detest crowns on me that are lower than 4 3/4, especially if the brim happens to be on the wi(l)de side. In a nutshell, I'm increasingly gravitating towards the 1920's/1930's style of hats with a relatively narrow brim and a good beefy crown.

EggHead
05-27-2011, 08:56 AM
Have your wife take some pictures of you from various angles. This will tell you how you look to other people.
I find that what I see in the mirror, does not always look the same from further away.
Mirrors do lie!! :)

Mario
05-27-2011, 09:08 AM
Mirrors do lie!! :)

Of course they do! I've had mine custom-made for a whole lot of dough just so it tells me sweet little lies as soon as I look into it...! :D

Honestly, though - I've seen enough photos of myself to have a pretty good idea of what suits me and what not.

kaosharper1
05-27-2011, 10:53 AM
I once read that the crown height of your hat should be the same as the distance from your chin to your eyes.

Interesting since your eyes are in the middle of your head (discounting additional height from your hair). That implies that crown height should be half the height of your head. I guess it makes sense.

Lastmohecken
05-27-2011, 04:42 PM
Head shape can dictate crown higth to certain degree. I think the back of my head is a little taller then the front, and because of that, I prefer a taller crown espacally if it's in a cattleman's crease, because the low crown cowboy hats so popular today, sit too high on my head, so If I get a low crowned hat, I have to re=bash it into a teardrop or Gus crease, anything but a Cattleman's crease, unless the hat has a fairly tall crown.

I can't wear a modern Open Road at all. Mine is a little older with a slightly taller crown, which I could have probably left in the Cattleman's crease, but I changed it to a teardrop, however, I could not give it a lot of rake, where some some of my Cowboy conversions with tall crowns can take a lot of rake, if I want it.

danofarlington
05-27-2011, 07:02 PM
Any crown height different from 5 inches is wrong, and the perpetrator should be arrested.

John in Covina
05-27-2011, 07:14 PM
For some reason the moment I read the question I kept imagining Prof. Irwin Corey The World's Foremost Authority giving a classic detailed answer.

mercuryfelt76
05-30-2011, 04:25 PM
Yes mirrors do lie and if your wife does take lots of pictures make sure it's in daylight, as the flash can create shadows which lie too.

The other problem is that high crowns used to be available in all different heights to suit the wearer. The shops used to be the experts but everything is generic these days. Experiment with different crown heights until you finally see the shape and size that works for you. You may find that just ever so slightly lower or less boxy makes a lot of difference.

Mario
05-31-2011, 05:40 AM
Thank you.

Oldsarge
05-31-2011, 08:54 AM
Half the height of your head? That seems a good place to start for a first serious hat. Thanx, guys, that puts me at 4 3/4". Now, just what is a "moderate" width brim?

John in Covina
05-31-2011, 09:02 AM
You may find that wearing a hat with different dimensions than what you are used to wearing will, over time, become more natural in appearance. If you read some of the threads such as the Akubra Campdraft thread or others, you will see people post about how they are used to their hat(s) having a certain look and not being used to how a new hat looks on them. People write about how they're used to a certain brim width and a hat that is wider is almost a shock when wearing because the difference seems so apparent.

The same thing can be said of crown height, if you have a certain look in mind and you are used to a certain height a larger change can be difficult to adjust to right off the bat. Some people can tough it out and wear the hat for a while so the new crown height or brim width becomes a second nature thing.

I'd like to point out that someone coming into fedoras having worn only stingy brims may find, that which most of us would consider a very ordinary fedora, as a huge jump in brim size and difficult to get used to. IF you read the hat shape versus face type only a small percentage of men should actually wear a stingy brim, yet on many guys it is not an anathema, in spite of the rules about hat / face ratios.

If we take the whole hat face rules and apply them to cowboy hats then nobody should be able to wear them, many cowboy hats have crowns way to high and brims way too wide. Cowboy hats seem to offer too much hat for nearly all men under the semmetry rules for fedoras. We know that the rules change some how, the concept of semmetry is altered with cowboy hats. If you kept the head the same and changed the fedora hat you would have a "Go - No Go" system in place, but the rules change for cowboy hats.

I think that we often are comforted by rules of convention that coincide with our own expectations but at the edges of these boundaries is wiggle room. So you can be defined by convention but later find that you can push the boundaries as you search for a specific look or looks. In the end it has more to do with your confidence and bearing sometimes than the rules and sometimes it takes time to get used to a new hat.

steppenwolph
05-31-2011, 05:50 PM
You may find that wearing a hat with different dimensions than what you are used to wearing will, over time, become more natural in appearance ... In the end it has more to do with your confidence and bearing sometimes than the rules and sometimes it takes time to get used to a new hat.

+1 on this. Try to see some photographs of yourself. From my experience, what I saw in a photo differed greatly from what I saw in a mirror. In the mirror image, the crown looked too tall, but in photographs it looked great. I liked what I saw in the photos much more than what I saw in the mirror, and so made a conscious leap of faith that the photograph was more representative of how others experienced me in a taller crown fedora as opposed to the mirror me. This gave me confidence to wear the fedora against all odds, and now, those people of my acquaintance are returning that faith in myself by saying how they appreciate my taking the effort to dress up for an occasion.

The child of a friend is in a concert or a play? Why, there I am dressed to the nines with my fedora; and that seems to be appreciated. If not for the look, then at least for the effort. And I like the look, thus everyone is satisfied. So crease it how you like it. People will at least respect the fact that you are taking the time and effort to honor their occasion by dressing well; as opposed to taking a ruler to your head.

Tee shirts and backwards ball caps are so depressingly common these days that I think folks crave to see others buck this trend and start the return of well dressed gentlemen to public life. For as many articles as I read here about the resurgence of the fedora, in my experience, I am the only one wearing one where ever I am. Don't let this deter you. I find that a bit of tweed, my fedora, and some pants in a fabric other than denim will reap you considerations from others that you may never have expected. Folks really do appreciate the effort made to look nice on their behalf.

Lastmohecken
05-31-2011, 11:16 PM
[QUOTE=John in Covina

If we take the whole hat face rules and apply them to cowboy hats then nobody should be able to wear them, many cowboy hats have crowns way to high and brims way too wide. Cowboy hats seem to offer too much hat for nearly all men under the semmetry rules for fedoras. We know that the rules change some how, the concept of semmetry is altered with cowboy hats. [/QUOTE]

This is the problem I face but in reverse. I am so used to wearing cowboy hats, and seeing people in cowboy hats, that I find myself often questioning my outline in the mirror when wearing a Fedora. My favorite cowboy hat has a 4.5 inch brim, and I really do think I look the best in it, and aparently my wife and daughter think so too.

I was getting ready for an outside wedding last week, and decided not to wear a suit, and chose black Wranglers and a shirt, and decided to wear a hat also. I started trying on my Fedoras, and kept getting prompted to put my Resistol Black Gold on instead, by both women, so that is what I ended up with. They just kept saying no that's you, and that's what you need to wear, and I must admit I had to agree with them.

But I am afraid that wearing hats is pretty much out of style, and I doubt it ever comes back, by much. I was the only one there with a hat except for one older lady. But no one made a case against me for wearing a hat, I guess they have just come to expect it.

The Good
05-31-2011, 11:52 PM
I think western hat conventions generally favoring a slightly higher crown, from what I've seen and read here. That also happens to be the way that they're generally made. I personally go by the rule of wearing a fedora that is not quite half as high as my face, but almost there. If a fedora is half the size of my head when worn, then I think it is too high on me. My hats typically rest two inches above my eyebrows, and are leaned back a bit, so I wear mine a bit high on the head than pulled down low.

Lastmohecken
06-01-2011, 03:42 PM
I think western hat conventions generally favoring a slightly higher crown, from what I've seen and read here. That also happens to be the way that they're generally made. I personally go by the rule of wearing a fedora that is not quite half as high as my face, but almost there. If a fedora is half the size of my head when worn, then I think it is too high on me. My hats typically rest two inches above my eyebrows, and are leaned back a bit, so I wear mine a bit high on the head than pulled down low.

2 inches, Wow! I might kick one back inside, like sitting at a dealer's table at a gunshow or something, but otherwise, I just never could wear one like that. I think it's because I have worn cowboy hats since I was a small child, and got used to pulling them down pretty low, to insure that they didn't blow off, so to me a hat doesn't feel right unless my forehead feels that leather hatband, which is one reason, so many of the newer low crown hats just don't work for me. There is just not enough room in the crown for me. Not to mention I always found it a nusance to have to go chasing my hat, which reminds me of the best straw hat I ever owned, that got knocked off of my head and went under the brushhog, needless to say, there was no need to retreive that one.

EggHead
06-01-2011, 04:06 PM
I am actually beginning to look into fedoras with shorter brims, say 2 3/8 or 2 1/4 because when wind picks up its hard to keep my 2 3/4 hats on.

Oldsarge
06-01-2011, 04:18 PM
I am actually beginning to look into fedoras with shorter brims, say 2 3/8 or 2 1/4 because when wind picks up its hard to keep my 2 3/4 hats on.

To me a 2 3/4+ brim is great when casually dressed but with a suit I am coming around to the 2 1/4, myself. They're not easy to find, yanno?

danofarlington
06-01-2011, 05:18 PM
I am actually beginning to look into fedoras with shorter brims, say 2 3/8 or 2 1/4 because when wind picks up its hard to keep my 2 3/4 hats on.

I have a few narrower brims and lots of wider brims, which latter I prefer. But with the narrow brims, I feel more comfortable for business wear and Monday through Friday. Wide brims are somewhat better for weekends and being on vacation. That's how I size them up.