Getting a '40s newspaperman-type flash camera

[Mr. 'H']

Attn: Photobylan et al.

I am interested in procuring a 1940s style camera with a seperate flash - you know the type, the ones where the bulbs are used just the once.

The best thing about them is the "criiitch" crunching sound when the flash goes off.

I love that sound - they use it to great effect in "L.A. Confidential".

It would primarily be for a prop for the house, but I'd love if it were fully functional.

What should I be looking for in terms of make, model, etc.?
_______________

Think the photographers at the poolside at the opening sequence of "Sunset Boulevard", and you'll know what I'm looking for.
_______________
Any assistance would be appreciated.

[Maj.Nick Danger]

....but from my observations it seems that the Speed Graphic was one of the more popular cameras for news men. (Camera experts please correct me if I'm mistaken.) :rolleyes:

[Salv]

I think what you're looking for is something like the Speed Graphic range by Graflex (http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/).

There don't seem to be many UK based dealers that sell them, but I did find CoCam (http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Equip/EQLF.HTM) in Bristol who currently have a Speed Graphic 4x5

...and The Camera House (http://www.the-camera-house.co.uk/2.stm) who have a Century Graphic.

[Mr. 'H']

Salv,

You hit the nail on the head. I wonder if I could score one on Ebay?

http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/speed-graphic.jpg

[db5zx]

Being a camera collector for exactly that era, I can tell you that you should definately look for a Graflex Speed Graphic. The Graflex that was manufactured in the 1940's was the Graflex Speed Graphic Anniversary Edition. The film size you want to look for is 4x5 inches. There are smaller ones 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and 3 1/4 x 4 1/4, but those were rarely if ever used by the press.

You can find these cameras on eBay quite a bit, but they rarely come with a flash. The flash you want to look for is NOT the Graflex Graflite flash, these were made in the 50's and later. You could try to get a hold of an older Graflex flash, but these are the exact ones that George Lucas chose to make the Star Wars light sabers out of and they go for a s**tload of money. Most photographers back then didn't use the Graflex flash but used either the King Sol or the Heiland flash. Both can be had for a reasonable amount of money.

You should also check out www.graflex.org for more information.

Also, I do own two 1941 Speed Graphic Anniversary Edition (4x5 inch), one 1935 Pre-Anniversary Speed Graphic (3 1/4 x 4 1/4 inches) and a 1940's Graflex SLR, so don't hesitate to PM me if you need more info.

All of those cameras work more or less perfectly, and I can tell you from experience, you are noticed whereever you go with those to take a picture or two. And due to the large negative, these pictures are far superior to most of todays pictures.

Hope that helps you...
...Jens

[Salv]

There aren't any on ebay.co.uk at the moment but if you search ebay.com for 'graflex graphic camera' then click on the 'Vintage' category on the left there are a few. There's a wonderful looking 1955 Press kit with everything you could want - the camera itself, carrying case, flash, bulbs - but it has a starting bid of $249.99 and the seller only ships to the US.

Happy hunting.

PS Mr 'H' - I'm at work for a night shift, but what are you doing up this late?

[Mr. 'H']

That's fantastic information Jens. That's ever so helpful.

As I would be new t this, can you please tell me how much I should be spending, roughly? {(1) Camera and (2) Flash?}.

I'll bet you get noticed with it! Do you wear vintage when you have it out and about?

I know what you mean by the silky feeling of the black and white film:

Take this as an example (one of my favorites!):
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5333/plymoth95eg.jpg

[John in Covina]

They came in a couple of film sizes, and I understand some size film can be tougher to get than others. I do know that a few of the photographers have been able to adapt backs to their cameras to use Polaroid or other "Instant" films like Fuji and that seems like fun. I think those old Press Cameras are so cool. Here's an exchange with the gentlemen of the press from a famous movie:
"AH Let him roar, it makes a swell picture!"
"No wait he thinks you're hurting the girl!"
"Don't worry ladies and gentlemen, those chains are made out of chrome steel!"

[Mr. 'H']

There aren't any on ebay.co.uk at the moment but if you search ebay.com for 'graflex graphic camera' then click on the 'Vintage' category on the left there are a few. There's a wonderful looking 1955 Press kit with everything you could want - the camera itself, carrying case, flash, bulbs - but it has a starting bid of $249.99 and the seller only ships to the US.

Happy hunting.

PS Mr 'H' - I'm at work for a night shift, but what are you doing up this late?

Salv,

Excellent info, as per usual!

I was just up late, 's'all!

BTW - what do you do? I never got around to asking you!

:cheers1:

[Mr. 'H']

That looks like a neat camera set:

http://i3.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/6f/da/6b_1.JPG

I wonder if it would be a good buy?

Buy maybe a bit too mo-dern for me ('55???)

[db5zx]

Hi, Mr. H.,

glad I could help. As some people here pointed out, not all of the film sizes in use back in the days are still around. That goes especially for the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 sheet film and the 620 roll film. Also, the so-called "film pack adapters" are no longer produced.

As I said in my other post, try to shoot for the 4x5 camera. That was the one used by most photographers back then. You can either get sheet film holder for that (which means changing the holder after each picture), try to get your hands on a 120 roll film back (which let's you shoot I think 12 6x6cm photos), or the Grafmatic film holder.

You have to watch out, the cameras of the 40's have the Graphic back, while the later cameras have the Graflok back. Those to are not interchangeable, what fits one doesn't fit the other.

For a Speed Graflex Anniversary Edition (the "Anny") in working condition, you probably can expect to pay around 150$ on eBay. A flash should cost you no more than 30 to 40. The film holders can go for quite a bit of money, so the best thing is to keep browsing until you find cheap ones.

Flash bulbs usually go for around 1$ per bulb, the bigger the lot is you buy, the cheaper you usually get them.

If you have more questions or would like me to send you some pictures of my collection, just PM me.

Jens

[Mr. 'H']

Response from sweetnetdeals
Item: Graflex Speed Graphic Press Camera Kit Flash 1955 WOW ! (7596419100)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
sweetnetdeals is the seller.



Sorry, we do not ship out of the country.
Respond to this question in My Messages.

:eusa_doh: :eusa_doh: :eusa_doh:

[Salv]

Salv,

...

BTW - what do you do? I never got around to asking you!

:cheers1:

Live system support in the airline industry. My company provides computer services to various airlines - reservations, departure control, cargo etc. - and since there's always someone flying somewhere in the world we need to provide 24 hour cover for the live systems in case of problems. So I've been asleep all day and I'm back at work now on a caffeine high :coffee: and I've got another night shift tomorrow, followed by a long weekend off.

As you were, gentlemen...

[Mr. 'H']

That's a roger....

Over.

:coffee:

[Robert Conway]

Try www.ritzcam.com

I believe they ship anywhere in the world.

[J. M. Stovall]

That looks like a neat camera set:

http://i3.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/6f/da/6b_1.JPG

I wonder if it would be a good buy?

Buy maybe a bit too mo-dern for me ('55???)

I snagged a complete set just like this on Ebay last year for $150. I even have the same leather case! I guess that was standard issue.

[GearHead]

You may want to check out graflex.org also.
A great source of info on the cameras.
I have a 1948 Speedgraphic and love it. I would try and get a 4x5 with a grafloc back.
4x5 sheet film is still readily available and if you get one with a grafloc back you can easily swap out 620 roll film adapters and polaroid adapters.
The crown graphics which where a later model in the early 50's are usualy more readily found with grafloc backs.
Mine doesn't have a grafloc back but is still pretty easy to use although I ony shoot 4x5 sheet film in the film holders.

Erick

[MK]

I was able to get this little gem on ebay. It was a bit more than I wanted to pay, but I needed it for some pictures we are taking for Classic Style.

After 26 years I finally have the camera that goes with my Grapflex flashgun.:cool:

http://home.neo.rr.com/possumrun/gr1.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7622894923&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

[Solid Citizen]

MK post some of your photos with this camera when you can?

SC :)

[GearHead]

Here's a link to some of my first photos I took with my Graflex SpeedGraphic a month or so back.
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=8274

I've gotten better with the developing since then after some trial and error.
I'll have to scan in some of the newer photos and post them.

Erikc

[photobyalan]

That looks like a neat camera set:

http://i3.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/6f/da/6b_1.JPG

I wonder if it would be a good buy?

Buy maybe a bit too mo-dern for me ('55???)

That one appears to be a smaller format Graphic, probably 2x3 or 3 1/4 x 4 1/4. Film is available in those sizes, but your choice of vendors is... one... and your choice of different films is... two, maybe three. You could use a roll-film back on the Graphics, but shooting 120 film defeats the purpose of carrying a large-format camera. It also changes the field of view of the lens, so you need adapters for the viewfinder and the wire frame.

If you're planning to actually take pictures, I would recommend a 4x5 Crown Graphic. The Crown Graphic is very similar to the Speed Graphic, but does not have a focal plane shutter, so it is considerably lighter and a bit thinner.

If you're not planning to take pictures, then one of the smaller-sized cameras will do nicely, take up less room, and be easier on the wallet. Keep your eyes peeled for an "Anniversary" model. They would be the most historically accurate for a 1940's-era photographer. The Super Speed Graphic was not produced until the 1960's (and they look like it), so they'd be poor substitute.

You have already received a lot of good information and Graflex.org is a really good resource.

Your idea of picking up an entire kit at one swoop is excellent. It's almost always more economical to get it all at once than piecemeal. Look for a kit that includes at least one Grafmatic film holder. If you think flashbulbs are cool, wait 'til you try one of those.

You should be able to pick up a complete kit with a 4x5 Speed or Crown for around $300, depending on who else is bidding. A 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 or 2x3 should be considerably cheaper. I wouldn't waste time with local camera shows, my experience has been that Graflex equipment is ridiculously expensive and the dealers aren't willing to bargain prices down to ebay levels.

And, please, don't waste the flashbulbs. Only one company in the world makes them now, they only make three sizes, and they are very expensive. Vintage bulbs are still available but, as they get used, they deplete a supply that will not be renewed.

[WEEGEE]

Only to add...if you have a 4x5 graphic already i recommend getting a poloroid back and giving Type 55 B&W pos/neg film a try...you get a print
and a negitive that needs to be washed and treated.


www.polaroid.com/service/filmdatasheets/4_5/55fds.pdf

Special Treatment Requires print coating the positive and clearing the negative. To clear the negative for reuse, immerse it in a sodium sulfite clearing bath immediately after development. Sodium sulfite powder is readily available from professional photographic supply dealers and chemical supply houses. Mix in the following proportions: Warm water: 2 liter or 70 fl. oz. Sodium sulfite powder: 440 grams or 16 oz. (weight) (anhydrous/desiccated) Slowly add the powder to the water; stir continuously until all powder is dissolved. Allow to cool to approximately 70 0F(210C) before using. Store the solution in brown, well-stoppered bottles or in a tank with a floating lid. To prevent scratches: Negative scratch resistance can be improved by treating the processed negative (after clearing in water and sodium sulfite) in a solution of Kodak Rapid Fix with Hardener (parts A & B) for two minutes. This solution should be made up and used in accordance with Kodak’s recommended mix procedures, chemical caution statements, wash times and temperatures. Caution This film uses a small amount of caustic paste. If any paste appears, avoid contact with skin, eyes and mouth and keep away from children and animals. If you get some paste on your skin, wipe it off immediately, then wash with water to avoid an alkali burn. If eye contact occurs, quickly wash the area with plenty of water and see a doctor. Keep discarded materials away from children, animals, clothing and furniture. Image Area 3 1/ 2 x 4 1/ 2 in. (9 x 11.4 cm) Finish Glossy Exposures per Unit 20 exposures per box Development Time 20-25 seconds at 70 0F

[MK]

...in my office:

http://www.thegoldenera.net/images/misc/MK_graflex.jpg

[mysterygal]

:eusa_clap MK, great camera! Have you been able to use it yet?

[Mike in Seattle]

Dare we expect to see pictures from the QM Extravaganza with people all squinting, arms outstretched in a rather zombie-like daze, the after-effects of flash-bulb retinal burn?

And watch where you pop-out the flashbulbs - they're really hot. A newspaper photographer friend of my parents said she wore her little white gloves when she'd attend a ladies' tea or some ladies' auxilliary function where she'd snap a few shots for the weekend society section, but carried a thermal glove in her purse for when she was sent out to cover some fast-breaking news story and was going to have to be snapping pictures in rapid-fire order (this was 40's to mid-60's using a Speed Graphics camera) so she could change bulbs without getting burned or scorching her white gloves.

[Doctor Strange]

My Dad the retired pro shot weddings and bar mitzvahs (among lots of other things) with his 4x5 Crown Graphic back in the late 40s/early 50s. He always had a handkerchief at hand for removing the used flashbulbs without burning himself, and he kept the unused bulbs in one jacket pocket and the used ones in the other.

Imagine shooting an event like that with a 4x5 camera! Dealing with heavy cameras, bulky film holders, hot flashbulbs... and doing it essentially one shot at a time, 'cause even an expert couldn't flip or change the film holders and deal with the dark slides that quickly!

Of course, they produced *many* less images than modern wedding shooters do: He described their package as being: portraits of the bride and groom (alone and together), one or two extended family group shots, a set of table pictures, a couple of party candids, and one or two down-the-aisle or at-the-altar shots - about 20 or so pictures. And we're talking b/w that he developed and printed himself... (Then, as more recently, reprints for the extended family was the major profit engine.)

[DanielJones]

My Father has one of those 4x5 Crown Grafix cameras with every dodad imaginable to go with it. That thing took some fabulous photos. A lot of good memories were made developing film into pictures with my dad.

Cheers!

Dan

[FedoraGent]

That's fantastic information Jens. That's ever so helpful.

As I would be new t this, can you please tell me how much I should be spending, roughly? {(1) Camera and (2) Flash?}.

I'll bet you get noticed with it! Do you wear vintage when you have it out and about?

I know what you mean by the silky feeling of the black and white film:

Take this as an example (one of my favorites!):
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5333/plymoth95eg.jpg

Um...is that Wild Root?

[MK]

That it is.

[DanielJones]

Looks like I'm going to have to persuade my Pop to break out the old Crown Grafix by getting him some 4x5 fim for it. Nice photo of Root.

Cheers!

Dan