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HistoricDetroit
12-07-2005, 10:44 PM
Good Morning Gentlemen,
One of the things I haven't heard much about or seen any threads on are boxers. However, as my supply of boxers, which were purchased all at once several years ago, finds itself to now be rather worn, I'm looking at replacements. Being a guy who buy's American WHENEVER possible, I did a search and came across this site: http://www.cityboxers.com/

Their boxers appear to be of great quality, and they have a massive selection of colors and styles. And they are American Made!

With the movies back in the 1930s - 1950s being clean, especially by today's standards, I can't recall seeing any of the greats parading around on screen in their boxers, or unlike today, hanging out the back of their pants in a so-called "fashion statement".

I'm now wondering what existed back then as far as styles and available colors. On one hand, I'd like to imagine that boxers were like the 1940's ties, available in any design or color one would desire. On the other hand, I picture everybody in just white undershirts and shorts, ala the way the military was at the time, and to my knowledge still is.

I'm going to be picking up ten or fifteen pairs before too long, but would like some input. I assume the "shirting designs" would be the most appropriate? They seem the most appealing to me, although I also like the flannels and some of the solid colors. I'm not at all into the ones with designs on them though.

MK
12-08-2005, 12:17 AM
I see a lot more briefs in the vintage catalogs than boxers.

I think that boxers became more popular because whenever you see an actor on camera they wear boxers because they are not as revealing as briefs.

scotrace
12-08-2005, 07:55 AM
My grandfather would have been 20 in 1918. My memories of him begin in the mid-1960's. He was always a smart dresser in his older gentleman sort of way, though I don't remember seeing him in many ties after 1972 or so.
He wore boxers, the first I had seen as I, my father and most boys I knew wore tighty whities. I remember that his were white, with small printed patterns. Very small dots, or squiggles, maybe stripes. They were fastened in front with small snaps, one at the waist, and one on the fly. They were not tightly elastic around the waist.
He also wore white ribbed undershirts of the shoulder strap variety.
I switched to boxers as soon as I left home and was buying my own things. Thanks for that link historicdetroit!

Braxton36
12-08-2005, 02:12 PM
My grandfather would also have been 20 in 1918. I never saw him in anything but boxers. Dad, too. Me, three. But I have to say that mine are much more colourful and interesting looking!

Veronica Parra
12-08-2005, 02:23 PM
I'm now wondering what existed back then as far as styles and available colors.

From the pages of APPAREL ARTS trade magazine, Winter 1932. Look at the left column:


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b362/Veronicaparra/Morephotos031.jpg

flat-top
12-08-2005, 04:01 PM
I have a lot on deadstock 40's-50's boxers, and they are very different from modern ones. There are only elastic inserts at the sides, a higher waist (of course) with snaps, and the backs are have three sections: the middle, and both "cheeks". I think these may have been called a "balloon seat".
You can find these on Ebay from time to time.
flat-top

The Wingnut
12-08-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm opposed to boxers myself...I'd wear them if I could avoid the phenomenon that JP mentions and the fact that I may like to swing dance, but I'd rather the...'boys'...don't! Not only that, but having that extra layer of fabric down there gets uncomfortably warm, and it has a tendency to bunch up.

I'll stick with my 'tidy whities'.

Absinthe_1900
12-08-2005, 09:23 PM
Boxers? I don't know anything about them.:cool2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/thegreenimp/Impynapping.jpg

The Wingnut
12-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Me neither!

http://www.thewingnut.com/images/misc/sarge.jpg

jamespowers
12-08-2005, 10:58 PM
Me neither!

http://www.thewingnut.com/images/misc/sarge.jpg

That boxer has that "don't put those boxers on me" look. :p

Regards to all,

J

MK
12-09-2005, 07:01 AM
It is much like ladies and bras. Some smaller gals can get away with no bra under a couple of shirts.

So some guys can get away with boxers but some of us need more support. ;)

HistoricDetroit
12-09-2005, 08:53 AM
Geezaloo... I haven't worn briefs regularly in years. After the ones I had became worn out and outgrown, I replaced them with boxers, and I've stuck with boxers since. That was back in high school, when no guy who didn't want to get a complementary wedgie wore briefs. I recently found a single pair of briefs lying around in my undershirt drawer, and wore them for a day, then tossed them out. I found them to be far less comfortable / more restricting, and almost confused myself when I went to use the urinal. Perhaps this is because I'm used to the boxers now.

I have nothing against briefs though, many of my male family members still wear them.
Where can one purchase American made briefs?

Nick Charles
12-09-2005, 09:08 AM
I think Colorado is still in the US, so these are madein the USA also

http://www.vintageskivvies.com/

They have a history of underwear and a couple of styles.

HistoricDetroit
12-09-2005, 09:09 AM
From the site: www.cityboxers.com
Three paneled design: This primarily describes the way the fabric is cut in order to create the boxer short. Most boxer shorts are 4-panel shorts. This means that there are four panels of fabric used in the contruction of the boxer short (two in the rear and two in the front). Our shorts only have one large rear panel, and two panels in the front. This one rear panel makes our boxers more comfortable than the rest. Why? No rear seam running up your butt or, in the case of five panel shorts (gross!), no seams running across each cheek. One aspect of the 3-panel design that might not be to your liking is that the way the large rear panel is cut, there is a larger, fuller butt area (probably you will not be able to fill this). However, if comfort is your biggest concern, this should not bother you too much. For me, personally, I would have it no other way.

Mrs. Foss
12-16-2005, 03:20 PM
Hello fellas,

If you really want to go all out you could get these:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=55&iSubCat=251&iProductID=7919

They are just about as authentic as you can get, but they are pricey.

~Mrs. Foss

Canadave
12-17-2005, 12:57 PM
I know this is a bad word, but my favourite boxers are from the Gap! They've got the panel at the back that avoids the centre seam (and accompanying wedgie), and you can get them on sale for 6.99 at times. Nice patterns, nice cotton.

David

scotrace
12-18-2005, 08:39 AM
I know this is a bad word, but my favourite boxers are from the Gap! They've got the panel at the back that avoids the centre seam (and accompanying wedgie), and you can get them on sale for 6.99 at times. Nice patterns, nice cotton.

David

Same goes for Old Navy.

HistoricDetroit
12-18-2005, 10:31 AM
I've owned Old Navy boxers in the past. They seemed to be of decent construction, and just fine as far as comfort. However, they started to look more worn than I would of liked after only a few washes, and the material hasn't held up too well either. I've got several small holes in unexpected places, such as the leg area. I also own Croft and Barrow boxers, which seem to be much better made. My biggest complaint with both brands is the point of origin - both are imported from China, which is another reason I'm looking to replace them ASAP!

Thanks for those links guys! I like "The Grippers" on Vintage Skivvies, but they are a bit more expensive than City Boxers, and the colors / patterns appear to be limited to one option! I don't like the elastic-less "Tie Sides". Unfortunately, the Vermont Country Store boxers are imported, and more expensive yet, so I'm not giving them a second look. However, if American Made is not a deal maker or breaker for you, they do appear pretty authentic.

Sorry if it bothers anyone that I come off as a "Buy American or Nothing" kind of guy, but I've seen enough family, friends, and fellow countrymen lose their jobs and livelihoods due to outsourcing, and I won't contribute to that. Especially not here in Michigan, where things are worse than most other states. But hey, it forces me to be a good consumer, buy better made stuff, and buy a lot of great vintage!

BellyTank
12-18-2005, 11:11 AM
The knit ones are OK- like boxers but slightly stretchy jersey fabric and ergonomically panelled so's not to do any damage to the man-cluster.
Like briefs with legs- comfy!

B
T

scotrace
12-18-2005, 04:02 PM
My experiece with GAP/Old Navy boxers has been fine, not fast-wearing.
The Vermot Country Store generally has a significantly higher markup than other retailers. I'm trying to find the orginal source...

Mrs. Foss
12-20-2005, 05:11 PM
I found 50's style boxers on a web page called "Paul Fredrick". Unfortunatley, I'm having a hard time putting up the link. If you go to their site and search for boxers, you'll see them. They are not as vintage styled as the Vermont Country Store verson, but they are a lot less expensive.

~Mrs. Foss

Lincsong
12-20-2005, 09:02 PM
I haven't worn briefs since I was 15. As soon as I was able to buy my own drawers, I've always worn boxers. Briefs are too confining and sweaty. :beer: It is too embarassing to wear briefs and always have to be scratching oneself. To me, wearing briefs is akin to wearing a diaper. Boxers allow more movement and many women prefer their men in them. Boxers are for adult males. Briefs remind me of the Spider-Man, King Kong things my 4 year old demands.:cool:

John in Covina
12-20-2005, 10:30 PM
I find boxers uncomfortable, the seam in the center seems to have me with the pointing portion of the three piece set on one side and the matching pair on the other. I feel like I am being guillotined. Whereas brief has me comfortably nestled.

John in Covina

jamespowers
12-20-2005, 10:36 PM
It has been said before so all I have to say is that it is all about support. You don't need it and don't mind shorts that sneak up on you then Boxers are for you. :p

Regards to all,

J

Lincsong
12-21-2005, 08:05 PM
I prefer silk boxer shorts. The feeling is perfect, the fit is correct and there is plenty of support. Briefs are sweaty, confining, infantile and totally uncomfortable. My wife always buys me silk boxers.:cheers1:

HistoricDetroit
12-21-2005, 10:42 PM
Geezaloo! Who would of thought that such a well meaning thread would have sparked such a debate! This thread lit up faster than a Lucky Strike being lit by a Ronson!

Although, I for one cannot understand how a man can wear a razor sharp double breasted pinstripe suit, a fine fedora, and a shiny pair of spectators, and hide beneath the handsome surface a pair of childrens underpants! It just seems silly, thought I know better men than myself who wear them. It is an unexplainable enigma. Perhaps we should all just agree that as long as a man is wearing something, as opposed to nothing, and whatever he is wearing is comfortable and clean, he's doing alright!

scotrace
12-22-2005, 08:13 AM
Perhaps we should all just agree that as long as a man is wearing something, as opposed to nothing, and whatever he is wearing is comfortable and clean, he's doing alright!
HistoricDetroit

I second that. What a goofus thing to quibble over.

I doubt the ladies are over in the powder room insulting each other's choice of underpinnies. Then again, we should probably ask them to step over here and settle this.

Dismuke
12-26-2005, 10:52 AM
When Clinton embarassed America by answering the boxers or briefs question, I was greatly relieved that I was not wearing what that degenerate wore. Boxers are for adult males. Briefs remind me of the Spider-Man, King Kong things my 4 year old demands.:cool:


You know, four years later the press asked that same question to Bob Dole and insisted that the American public had a right to know as Clinton had already answered the question. Dole's response: "Uhhhmmmm. Well.......depends."

(Not too often one gets to tell an election year joke from 1996 these days! :p )

3PieceSuitGuy
12-27-2005, 05:52 PM
I myself am a boxers man, I find them entirely comfortable, have never had them ride up on me unless I am wearing jeans (I know absolute horror that someone would wear denim!) and then that is fairly rare. If you buy the right type of boxers i.e. nice and loose, then they don't ride up. Once you get through the transition period from briefs to boxers you won't look back. I now only wear briefs to exercise for support, but otherwise am a converted boxer man. I absolutely love the old yoke front kind of boxer with a balloon seat and one piece at the back, that way there is no seam to bother you, but generally I find any type of boxer comfortable.

Having said all that if briefs are your choice then that's fine. I would urge you to try boxers but it is all up to you.

Cheers!

Gray Ghost
12-28-2005, 01:37 AM
I prefer boxers to briefs. Briefs are to restricting and causes me to chaf. Boxers are 10 times more comfortable and I do not have the problem of them riding up. When I wear my kilt, it is nothing worn underneath. As the old saying goes, when asked what is worn under the kilt, you answer nothing is worn. All is in perfect working order.:cheers1:

GG

Matt Deckard
07-11-2006, 12:37 PM
Underwear has not always been a fascination for women and how they want their bodies to appear. There was a time in the world when menÖ real men took pride in their figure to the point that they would buy underwear that helped improve the look of their physique. As in the way many ladies corset and belly shapers have gone out of fashion, menís underwear has taken a turn for the drab with choices being limited to pretty much the bare necessities of boxers or briefs or boxer briefs (my preference).

As my belly gets slimmer there are a few things Iíd like to share about menís underwear.

1. With modern underwear, tuck the undershirt into the undershorts.
This keeps the dress shirt from being dragged out by the undershirt and gives a cleaner appearance.

2. For the heavier menÖ wear the undershorts below the overlapping belly and the trousers over the belly and at your natural waste. This takes some of the pressure off your wasteband and keeps the undershorts from riding up even higher and causing discomfort.

3. When they change color, buy new underwear... I have been on too many business trips where the guy in the room with me has on a pair that was probably white to begin with though changed color over time... Ladies, if this is your guy... buy him some new cotton.

In many cases the women have it easy... they know where to go when they want a garment that makes them look as though they have lost 5 pounds... For men, in the year 2006 you have to do an in depth google search that may yield nothing you'd touch with a 10 foot pole.

http://images2.fotki.com/v332/photos/8/83243/3771452/5-vi.jpg
http://images16.fotki.com/v275/photos/8/83243/3771452/mens6-vi.jpg
http://images1.fotki.com/v334/photos/8/83243/3771452/mens22-vi.jpg
http://images1.fotki.com/v333/photos/8/83243/3771452/mens72-vi.jpg

Hammelby
08-29-2006, 05:45 AM
A tip on undershirts!

Dovre is a old norwegian brand (founded 1922) and still has one
nice longsleeved undershirt with buttons in their collection.
Dovre is known for their good quality.

Here is the undershirt "grandad" (bestefar).
(but not sure wich decade it was popular).

http://www.dovre.com/images/body/image2.jpg
The brand's homepage: http://www.dovre.com

BigSleep
08-31-2006, 11:25 AM
Just wondered if anyone else finds the old "wife beater" style of undershirt useless?

They dont keep me warm.
They dont protect my shirts from under arm stains.

Not sure what good they are unless you where them as a tank top.

Am I missing something?

Doug C
08-31-2006, 01:29 PM
Well from my perspective, I prefer the "wife beater" style to regular t-shirts simply because they aren't as bulky and do keep me somewhat warmer in cooler weather when worn under another shirt. I live in Texas where it's almost always hot and I can't understand how anyone here could wear a regular t-shirt under a button-down shirt in this heat, much less with a tie - but I see people do it all the time. I guess the "WB" type would atleast wick up some of the body sweat a little. Guess I'm just too hot natured for any of them unless it's fall or winter.

Doug C

Shaul-Ike Cohen
08-31-2006, 01:50 PM
Well from my perspective, I prefer the "wife beater" style to regular t-shirts

I prefer tee-shirts, mainly because they keep my shirts dry on more places. Also, I can't but associate the others with ugly couches, beer bellies, and tellies. Not your fault.

BigSleep
08-31-2006, 04:39 PM
Wonder if anyone makes a light weight version of the regular T.

Tomasso
08-31-2006, 05:15 PM
I live in Texas where it's almost always hot and I can't understand how anyone here could wear a regular t-shirt under a button-down shirt in this heat, much less with a tie - but I see people do it all the time.

When I first moved to Houston I was not an undershirt wearer but I was advised, by a native, to become a practitioner. It works. Yes, it seems incongruous to keeping cool but it works. I'm now a believer.

scotrace
08-31-2006, 05:44 PM
Undershirts (Y shirts)

Keep you cooler
Keep you dryer
Save your dress shirts
Look neater

McPeppers
09-03-2006, 05:14 PM
I used to wear a t-shirt but they tent to cause strange patterns against the dress shirt every so often. Switched to Under-Armor thats a half size too big (so it is loose) and that works fantastic.

DancingSweetie
09-03-2006, 05:44 PM
In many cases the women have it easy... they know where to go when they want a garment that makes them look as though they have lost 5 pounds... For men, in the year 2006 you have to do an in depth google search that may yield nothing you'd touch with a 10 foot pole.
/IMG]

I happen to think a man with a belly is very sexy.

carebear
09-03-2006, 06:52 PM
I happen to think a man with a belly is very sexy.

Now spread the word. These sit-ups are getting old. :D

scotrace
09-03-2006, 07:43 PM
Mine is gone and it's gonna stay gone :).

Dear Santa:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/images/us/local/products/detail/f02664_dt.jpg

John in Covina
09-03-2006, 08:05 PM
A tip on undershirts!

Dovre is a old norwegian brand (founded 1922) and still has one
nice longsleeved undershirt with buttons in their collection.
Dovre is known for their good quality.

Here is the undershirt "grandad" (bestefar).
(but not sure wich decade it was popular).

http://www.dovre.com/images/body/image2.jpg
The brand's homepage: http://www.dovre.com

In the US I think this is called a Henley shirt.

Johnnysan
09-03-2006, 08:25 PM
Mine is gone and it's gonna stay gone :).

Dear Santa:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/images/us/local/products/detail/f02664_dt.jpg

Christmas comes early, my friend! Look what I just spied in the the JCPenney Fall/Winter 2006 Catalog...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Johnnysan/Miscellaneous/yoke_front.jpg

Available in sizes 32-44 even ($16.00/pkg. of 3) (http://www4.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?CatNum=R504-6753&JSEnabled=true&mscssid=6df7bd33493584da199ce16812cf5af0cxMnVNoVza yoxMnVNoVzayW200B137BE86734C4D129E39D8FA5CE1BA26A0 624703&cmResetCat=true&hdnOnGo=true) AND sizes 46-54 even ($21.00/pkg. of 3) (http://www4.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?CatNum=R504-6811&mscssid=&hdnOnGo=true&JSEnabled=true&cmResetCat=true) for us bigger guys! Order them now and maybe they will keep this item permenantly in stock!

Can it be...traditional men's fashion becoming mainstream once again?? Who'da thunk it?? ;)

scotrace
09-03-2006, 08:40 PM
Wow Johnnysan!! Thanks - Vermont Country Store was the only place i've seen these and they want $25 a pop.

Cool!

carebear
09-03-2006, 08:41 PM
Are those over the belly button?

Johnnysan
09-03-2006, 09:00 PM
Wow Johnnysan!! Thanks - Vermont Country Store was the only place i've seen these and they want $25 a pop.

Cool!

I was looking at those too...I'm glad that I held off on ordering them! :)

Mr. Rover
09-04-2006, 06:22 AM
Too bad they don't come in a 28 inch waist...

I live in Taiwan (a subtropical island in the Pacific Ocean) and I wear an undershirt with my dress shirts everyday. I used to wear Gap shirts but now I wear Hanes undershirts. They're really lightweight and thin but I find that they are still cut quite close to body. The only problem is they wear out quicker, so you may have to buy new ones more often. I get mine at Target.

Matt Deckard
09-11-2006, 07:07 PM
Penny's ay... that's an eye opener. The classics are coming back.

Johnnysan
09-12-2006, 07:24 AM
Too bad they don't come in a 28 inch waist...

Waist sizes start at 32. The solution? Doughnuts, son....eat lots and lots of doughnuts! ;)

Nick Charles
09-12-2006, 08:07 AM
I have the Penny's ones and let me tell you, the inseam is short if you wear them at the righ level.so they bunch up in the crotch.

scotrace
09-12-2006, 09:00 AM
They're sold out in my size (and unavailable in-store here) :(

But if they're crotch creepers anyway, who cares.

Marc Chevalier
09-12-2006, 09:18 AM
Just wondered if anyone else finds the old "wife beater" style of undershirt useless?

They dont keep me warm.
They dont protect my shirts from under arm stains.

Well, you can always beat a wife with them.

.

Bugsy
04-01-2007, 10:35 PM
For confirmed boxer wearers, the tie back boxers from Brooks Brothers are great, pricey but great.

Rooster
04-02-2007, 12:15 PM
Mine is gone and it's gonna stay gone :).

Dear Santa:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/images/us/local/products/detail/f02664_dt.jpg
Hey boys, these are on sale right now at Penny's. $9.00 for a 3 pac. I had to order them, be here this friday.

celtic
04-02-2007, 02:13 PM
Just wondered if anyone else finds the old "wife beater" style of undershirt useless?

They dont keep me warm.
They dont protect my shirts from under arm stains.

Not sure what good they are unless you where them as a tank top.

Am I missing something?

2 valid uses:

they help keep my shirt from pulling out of my pants...i would guess it has to do with static cling and/or friction :)

if i'm wearing a polo shirt that has a logo, patch or embroidery on the breast, the tank top prevents the usually annoying scratchy logo to become less annoying.

i used to wear a-shirts (wifebeaters) all the time, but i haven't bought them in a long time and have since switched to v-necks or crewneck undershirts.

Johnnysan
04-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Hey boys, these are on sale right now at Penny's. $9.00 for a 3 pac. I had to order them, be here this friday.

Thanks for the post! :)

Sir RBH
04-02-2007, 02:35 PM
For confirmed boxer wearers, the tie back boxers from Brooks Brothers are great, pricey but great.

On the subject of underwear and trad items.. what about sock suspenders?? How many of you have ever worn them? or possibly wear them on a regular basis? I could not possibly conceive leaving the house without my socks properly supported by my sock suspender.. unless of course I am sporting plus fours!
RBH

Orgetorix
04-02-2007, 03:01 PM
On the subject of underwear and trad items.. what about sock suspenders?? How many of you have ever worn them? or possibly wear them on a regular basis? I could not possibly conceive leaving the house without my socks properly supported by my sock suspender.. unless of course I am sporting plus fours!
RBH

I haven't, but some here do. There's a discussion of them (along with shirt garters) in this thread: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4555

Matt Deckard
08-06-2007, 08:05 AM
I think I need the Bracer.

The Wingnut
08-06-2007, 02:47 PM
I use A-shirts myself. In this climate, wearing more than 2 layers of clothing gets hot. I pretty much use them as a mask for my white shirts, so it doesn't look as if I'm not wearing an undershirt. T-shirts under dress shirts in a temperate climate with a suit or sport jacket are overkill, especially if you're not in the habit of removing your jacket. You'll heat up and sweat more with a t-shirt.

When dressed well, I use sock garters. Nothing ruins the look of a good pair of socks like having them bunched up at the ankles.

PA Dancer
08-06-2007, 02:59 PM
I found some household tips on farmersalmanac.com awhile back and thought I would share, especially the one for perspiration stains.

I don't know if these hints really work, but they don't seem like they would cause any harm either.

For smelly shoes use crumpled up newspaper to absorb the smell and keep the shape of the shoe.

For perspiration stains on our favorite white shirts it calls for 4 tablespoons of salt per pint of water and dab til it disappers.

Some tricks my sister (miss suzy homemaker, herself) taught me was peroxide removes blood and aresol hairspray removes ink. These 2 tips I have used, and they DO work.

As for the mens undershirts...I buy them a few sizes to big and wear them as pajamas. I'm all about the comfy cotton.
: )

Edward
08-15-2007, 09:04 AM
On the subject of underwear and trad items.. what about sock suspenders?? How many of you have ever worn them? or possibly wear them on a regular basis? I could not possibly conceive leaving the house without my socks properly supported by my sock suspender.. unless of course I am sporting plus fours!
RBH

I'd like to get some myself - not for regular wear, but for when I really want to look my best and not have my socks roll up on a night out (especially black or white tie gatherings). They're on my list to acquire....

I've never bothered with period style underwear when it comes to wearing vintage style clothes - early 20th Century man-clothes, I don't think it has any bearing on how the garment hangs, so I prefer the comfort of my stretchy-jersey CK shorts. :) I'm intrigued by the notion that an undershirt - a vest, as we call them over here - would help keep me cool. I'd be tempted to try that sometime.... normally in the winter I'll wear a T shirt under a shirt when going casual, but even then rarely with a suit (unless I'm gonig to spend a large amount of time outside). Wore one as a kid for keeping the heat in in the Winter.... I might experiment and see if they help keep me cool. It seems counter-intuitive somehow - especially if I'd be wearing a three-piece?

Shaul-Ike Cohen
08-15-2007, 09:18 AM
T-shirts have the enormous advantage that they cover the armpits, and if you choose the right material, they shouldn't be too warm, anyways not much warmer than A-shirts from the same material.

The sock thing can really be annoying - either they strangle your calf or they drop. I don't see myself trying suspenders, though. Rather over-the-calf socks/stockings. That would be warmer, of course, but I spose suspender bands aren't too airy either.

Bebop
08-15-2007, 12:31 PM
Wow! I thought that if there was something I was good at, it would have been knowing how to wear my underwear. Thanks for the tips. Live and learn. [huh]

jgilbert
08-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Here in Louisville Penny's carries T-Shirts in two different weights. Normal and Heavy weight. So I am able to wear a lighter T-shirt in the summer.

Cobden
08-15-2007, 01:41 PM
I must say, in the UK, I think it's very rare for people to wear vests/undershirts. I don't wear them myself except when I need to wear shirtsleeves in the depth of winter, and no-one I know wears them over here.

Interesting cultural difference, really [huh]

Brian Sheridan
08-16-2007, 04:00 PM
Delicated question but...how long until you toss out your underwear and buy new ones?

Some guys hang on to it until all that is left is the elastic band.

I heard of one guy who won a lottery jackpot and bought 365 pairs of underwear. He wore a pair a day and then threw them away - never washing them for reuse.

Tomasso
08-16-2007, 05:15 PM
how long until you toss out your underwear and buy new ones?

I tend to pitch my undershirts when they lose their whiteness and acquire that washed-out grey look or if any holes or stains appear. I don't wear white undershorts so greying isn't as much an issue as stains, holes and played out elastic.

Dr Doran
08-16-2007, 10:40 PM
I bleach my t-shirts every single wash. Thus their color never changes. I used to wear wife-beaters but ONLY because many many girls complimented me when I wore them. Not because they served much of a function.

I cannot wear any t-shirt of any kind under a dress shirt, esp if I have a tie and jacket. I cannot bear the suffocating feeling. Yes, I have to wash my dress shirts after each use; but so what? And as far as undershirts protecting the dress shirt from sweat: I never understood that one. If it's the MARKS of sweat you are worried about, wear a jacket over the dress shirt, and since you don't have a t-shirt on in additon, you won't be too hot. If it's sweat DAMAGING your dress shirt, wash it after use ...

Tomasso
08-16-2007, 11:05 PM
I bleach my t-shirts every single wash. Thus their color never changesI can not stand the smell of bleach. But I've recently begun using Oxyclean with the whites, we'll see how well it works at preventing greying.



And as far as undershirts protecting the dress shirt from sweat: I never understood that one.
They protect suit/sportcoats from sweat stains. I never wore undershirts until, as an adult, I moved to Houston. One of my partners, a native Houstonian, clued me in to wearing undershirts to stay cooler in the brutal heat and humidity. I tried it even though it sounded incongruous to add another layer of clothing to beat the heat. He was right.[huh]

Shaul-Ike Cohen
08-17-2007, 03:37 AM
Delicated question but...how long until you toss out your underwear and buy new ones?

Oh, I wash them.

Seriously, has the problem been mentioned that some antiperspirants leave nasty yellow stains? Something about the aluminium, IIRC, and a friend with a PhD in chemistry once told me a simple solution, which I instantly forgot. Have to ask him again.

scotrace
08-17-2007, 07:09 AM
I think soaking in an aspirin solution is supposed to work with those stains.

Layers of loose cotton or linen are cooler than just one layer of dress shirt stuck to your back.

Travis
08-17-2007, 07:29 AM
I wear an a-shirt every single day. I also wear white boxers. I toss them out and replace them when the material starts to show a lot of wear or they get holes in them, other than that, they're still in good condition, why get rid of them?

Dr Doran
08-17-2007, 01:39 PM
I can not stand the smell of bleach. But I've recently begun using Oxyclean with the whites, we'll see how well it works at preventing greying.
They protect suit/sportcoats from sweat stains. I never wore undershirts until, as an adult, I moved to Houston. One of my partners, a native Houstonian, clued me in to wearing undershirts to stay cooler in the brutal heat and humidity. I tried it even though it sounded incongruous to add another layer of clothing to beat the heat. He was right.[huh]

Bleach is a repellent smell, I agree.
I have never gotten sweat stains on any suit or sportcoat I'm aware of.

Maybe it isn't so hot where I live.

Travis
08-17-2007, 02:11 PM
Bleach is a repellent smell, I agree.

That is why I use "fresh linen scented" bleach. lol True story.

Dr Doran
08-17-2007, 02:25 PM
We have a lemon bleach.

scotrace
11-21-2007, 07:12 PM
Bump.

Note that this was a previously closed thread that contained a lot of insulting comments, mainly from a member who has since been banned. That's why you may see references to the thread being abrasive. The garbage has been removed.

I'm sure we can talk about underwear without being unpleasant, right?

cooncatbob
11-21-2007, 07:26 PM
Boxer briefs.lol
Bob.

KilroyCD
11-21-2007, 08:08 PM
Briefs and/or boxer briefs.

dostacos
11-21-2007, 08:41 PM
normally I don't discuss "security" issues in puplic, however I wear briefs for what it is worth....

A.R. McVintage
11-21-2007, 08:45 PM
When did the elastic band come into major use in boxers? What did boxers look like in the fifties?

Martinis at 8
11-21-2007, 08:50 PM
Usually I save my bluntness for the AAAC forum. However, I'll make an exception in this case.

Briefs are for girly men like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. I also put suspenders, bow-ties, cuffed trousers, and parting one's hair down the middle in the girly-man category.

M8

Dan G
11-21-2007, 09:08 PM
Well hell, wearing briefs and suspenders, and, I'll be, hair parted down the middle... Guess being a logger from north Idaho probably doesn't do me any favors either?:rolleyes: Martinis? I'll buy you a man drink sometime.[huh] lol

fatwoul
11-21-2007, 09:16 PM
Briefs are for girly men like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. I also put suspenders, bow-ties, cuffed trousers, and parting one's hair down the middle in the girly-man category.

I'm not a briefs person either, but this comment seems unfair to me. I hardly think a man's choice of men's underwear dictates his masculinity.

As Dan G hints at, there are some occupations and lifestyles which would suit one type of underwear more than the other, and they have nothing to do with whether or not the wearer is "girly". :rolleyes:

carter
11-21-2007, 10:38 PM
Bump.
I'm sure we can talk about underwear without being unpleasant, right?

'Fraid Not! :fedora:

Tony in Tarzana
11-22-2007, 01:15 AM
I'm convinced. I'm going to find some bow ties to go with my cuffed trousers and braces.

number6
11-22-2007, 01:43 AM
Usually I save my bluntness for the AAAC forum. However, I'll make an exception in this case.

Briefs are for girly men like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. I also put suspenders, bow-ties, cuffed trousers, and parting one's hair down the middle in the girly-man category.

M8

I'm with you all the way except for the centre parting bit , mine's now 6 inches wide .:D

BrotherBob
11-22-2007, 01:44 AM
Here's me in the London Marathon:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41591000/jpg/_41591848_thong_getty220.jpg

You got a problem with that?

I don't do boxers well. Mr. Happy won't stay in one place and mind his manners. Briefs, but for the love of Jeebus, no white ones. They remind me too much of my Dad wandering around his house at night. And whiteys rob you of one more opportunity to coordinate colors.

Baron Kurtz
11-22-2007, 02:01 AM
Martinis at 8, going for the BB award for highest flame to valid post ratio.

bk

Martinis at 8
11-22-2007, 06:08 AM
Uh, could we talk about something less volatile, like maybe religion or politics? :D

M8

wedding belle
11-22-2007, 06:13 AM
I doubt the ladies are over in the powder room insulting each other's choice of underpinnies. Then again, we should probably ask them to step over here and settle this.

You know, all that really matters is that they are clean :)

Martinis at 8
11-22-2007, 06:17 AM
Martinis at 8, going for the BB award for highest flame to valid post ratio.

bk

I am expecting a pile-on. See how it works, I merely stated an opinion :D

M8

Edward
11-22-2007, 06:50 AM
I grey up with big, 70s-style, white Y-fronts - think the young man on the right of this picture:

http://www.cosmosfactory.org/images/stills/10-23-03-riff_janet_brad_elevator.jpg

It's what dad wore, so it's what was bought for us... At about 12, and following much mickey taking and one severe wedgie in the changing rooms at school, I moved into boxers and have stayed there ever since. About twelve years ago I developed a preference for snug-fitting jersey boxers, and I stick to those exclusively now (Rocky Horror costumes aside. :p ). Most of mine are CK, actually - for no better reason than I got a job lot for crazy cheap per pair on eBay. If I'd paid what they normally charge in a store, you better believe I'd be wearing them on the outside for all to see. lol

I think we guys get the easier end of the deal than the ladies by far: vintage men's styles will sit just fine whatever choice of (under)pants we make. Ladies got to wear the right period underwear to get things to look just right on the surface - whether or not that's to their comfort or taste.

vonwotan
11-22-2007, 06:59 AM
My preference these days is for the hybrid "boxer-briefs" from a company called Staples in Canada. They make them from silk that stretches and they cover the elastic in the waist. I find them more comfortable and easier to wear under well tailored trousers. I used to wear boxers but, most now feel bulky and bunch. I do have a few pairs of boxers I like to wear around the house - they come when I order shirts from our tailor in NYC.

slicedbread
11-22-2007, 07:03 AM
Definitely boxer briefs...I'm quite active and am also prone to random bouts of backflips and dancing...Thus, boxers are not the way to go. Plus, I like the way they look.

KilroyCD
11-22-2007, 07:54 AM
You know, all that really matters is that they are clean :)
As long as the posts are as well...:D

K.D. Lightner
11-22-2007, 08:03 AM
OK, here's another gal checking in.

I grew up assuming adult men wore boxers because, everytime a comedian on TV did a pratfall, his trousers fell down revealing -- boxers with hearts or polka dots or, well, check out any old Bob Hope movie.

I do prefer boxers on men. I agree with a couple of you fellows who mentioned that briefs, especially white briefs, look like bandages. And white is sooo boring. I don't like white undies, not on anyone.

While it is true that briefs show off a man's, uh, assets, it is also true that boxers leave it to the imagination. And the imagination can be....

I am censoring the rest of this.

karol

J.S.Udontknowme
11-22-2007, 08:45 AM
Boxers and boxer briefs here.

Ecuador Jim
11-23-2007, 10:43 PM
Hello fellas,

If you really want to go all out you could get these:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=55&iSubCat=251&iProductID=7919

They are just about as authentic as you can get, but they are pricey.

~Mrs. Foss

Flashback! I now recall my grandfather had several pairs of those. As a young boy, I thought they were swimsuits! lol

Lincsong
11-23-2007, 11:37 PM
Usually I save my bluntness for the AAAC forum. However, I'll make an exception in this case.

Briefs are for girly men like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. I also put suspenders, bow-ties, cuffed trousers, and parting one's hair down the middle in the girly-man category.

M8

bahahaahhaahhahahahahahahhaa

Badluck Brody
11-23-2007, 11:46 PM
1st off I spent waaay too many years in the service and in some pretty lousey places in the world to not only rely on a good pair of briefs to keep dirt and even insects off me bum and keep me clean...

However when it comes to round the house comfort and such... A good pair of boxer brief's are pretty nice....

JMHO

Jovan
11-24-2007, 02:02 AM
Boxers and boxer briefs. Tommy Hilfiger button front boxer briefs are nice -- if you can find them discounted -- and don't have that awkward brief style fly.

Now, I've never had success with briefs, no matter what brand. Not at all to brag, but they're all made too small in the crotch area for me. Then some ugly... leakage occurs. Yikes. I recently made the switch to boxer briefs with no problems. They are also sexier, in my opinion. Like women's boyshorts, they show just enough without revealing all. :)

I think the reason only one woman has responded is because, well, it's a bit of a double standard. We, as male members of the board, are expected not to talk at all in any threads about women's underthings. Yet, we openly want their opinion on this when we're discussing strapping down our "boys"... kind of odd if you ask me. [huh]

Martinis at 8: That would have come off a lot better if you used an emoticon.

Martinis at 8
11-24-2007, 06:33 AM
1st off I spent waaay too many years in the service and in some pretty lousey places in the world to not only rely on a good pair of briefs to keep dirt and even insects off me bum and keep me clean...

However when it comes to round the house comfort and such... A good pair of boxer brief's are pretty nice....

JMHO

That's interesting. When I was in the US Army we had both types issued to us at different points in time. I am not sure who makes the decisions on this type of stuff or whether it's merely a cost issue. I went through the US Army Ranger school, and most simply didn't wear any underwear at all. The problem was the drying time. The only exception was for long underwear, if they were wool. This was mainly because the wool keeps you warm regardless if it is wet or not. Any cotton undergarments would take forever to dry.

M8

Mid-fogey
11-24-2007, 06:43 AM
...breifs are considered to be for boys and boxers are for men -- don't ask me why. It's probably related to the fact that boxers predated briefs (men don't like change) and that you can't really make briefs yourself but you can make boxers (the South was poor). When my dad went to college in the 40s he left with boxers made by his mother out of flour sacks.

My dad was in the Army, and was stationed in NY when I went to college. I left with a load of "tightey (not tidy) whities". At The Citadel (then all male, and very southern), I got endless grief for them. Plus in the heat and humidity, air circulates around in boxers and makes you more comfortable. At my earliest convenience I threw away my briefs and never went back. I haven't owned a pair of "banana squeezers" in decades.

Big, baggy boxers seem to be a dad thing. When you wear them, you seem less "compromised" when you kids surprise you in your underwear.

Now, here is a funny (and somewhat gross :eek:) boxer story: When I was a cadet, two of my classmates were very different kinds of guys, but were roommates. Both were named Jim. One was from a small South Carolina Southern Baptist family. The other was from New York, and from a big Irish Catholic family.

NY Jim was very disorganized and chaotic. He failed to send out his laundry and ran out of underwear. Being from a huge communal property family, he went into SC Jim's drawer and "borrowed" a pair of silky boxers (can you imagine it?).

SC Jim's purloined underpants went home with NY Jim for Christmas furlough. Jim's brother saw said silky and attractive boxers and took them back to Wake Forrest. The silky boxers got the reputation as being "lucky" with the ladies, and became a hot item in John's fraternity. The were worn, washed, and passed around the joint.

During Spring furlough, NY Jim saw them and confiscated them (over protests of importance to the fraternity's love life) to return to SC Jim. Understandably, SC Jim was not interested in having them back.

Martinis at 8
11-24-2007, 06:51 AM
...breifs are considered to be for boys and boxers are for men -- don't ask me why. It's probably related to the fact that boxers predated briefs (men don't like change) and that you can't really make briefs yourself but you can make boxers (the South was poor). When my dad went to college in the 40s he left with boxers made by his mother out of flour sacks.

My dad was in the Army, and was stationed in NY when I went to college. I left with a load of "tightey (not tidy) whities". At The Citadel (then all male, and very southern), I got endless grief for them. Plus in the heat and humidity, air circulates around in boxers and makes you more comfortable. At my earliest convenience I threw away my briefs and never went back. I haven't owned a pair of "banana squeezers" in decades.

Big, baggy boxers seem to be a dad thing. When you wear them, you seem less "compromised" when you kids surprise you in your underwear.

Now, here is a funny (and somewhat gross :eek:) boxer story: When I was a cadet, two of my classmates were very different kinds of guys, but were roommates. Both were named Jim. One was from a small South Carolina Southern Baptist family. The other was from New York, and from a big Irish Catholic family.

NY Jim was very disorganized and chaotic. He failed to send out his laundry and ran out of underwear. Being from a huge communal property family, he went into SC Jim's drawer and "borrowed" a pair of silky boxers (can you imagine it?).

SC Jim's purloined underpants went home with NY Jim for Christmas furlough. Jim's brother saw said silky and attractive boxers and took them back to Wake Forrest. The silky boxers got the reputation as being "lucky" with the ladies, and became a hot item in John's fraternity. The were worn, washed, and passed around the joint.

During Spring furlough, NY Jim saw them and confiscated them (over protests of importance to the fraternity's love life) to return to SC Jim. Understandably, SC Jim was not interested in having them back.

Citadel. A fine Southern school. So why do you live in VMI country? :D

M8

scotrace
11-24-2007, 06:58 AM
I think the reason only one woman has responded is because, well, it's a bit of a double standard. We, as male members of the board, are expected not to talk at all in any threads about women's underthings. Yet, we openly want their opinion on this when we're discussing strapping down our "boys"... kind of odd if you ask me. [huh]


Well, we were fine with mixed company until you started chatting about leakage and bragging. :eek:

Thread title updated.

Mid-fogey
11-24-2007, 06:58 AM
Citadel. A fine Southern school. So why do you live in VMI country? :D

M8

...wasn't a serious option for me. My Dad went to VPI (now called Virginia Tech). He considered VMI to be a "rich boy's school."

For the record, despite the rivalry, I consider VMI to be an excellent school.

Martinis at 8
11-24-2007, 07:11 AM
...wasn't a serious option for me. My Dad went to VPI (now called Virginia Tech). He considered VMI to be a "rich boy's school."

For the record, despite the rivalry, I consider VMI to be an excellent school.

Well I admire both VMI and Citadel, and Lexington and Charleston are wonderful places to visit. I do think both of those academies put out a better product than West Point, and am hoping those places can avoid the big slide that the federal academies have gone through.

Cheers,

M8

M Tatterscratch
11-24-2007, 07:23 AM
Now, here is a funny (and somewhat gross :eek:) boxer story:

Mr. Fogey - That's quite possibly the most classic story about "inexpressibles" I've yet heard. lol

Green side up, VMI!

T.

Warden
11-24-2007, 08:34 AM
Boxers for me, in fact I have just bought some modern clingy things, not my cup of tea, but Mrs W likes them.

Ho no, hear I go again to much information, :eek: quick where is the delete key?

Harry

Rider
11-24-2007, 01:53 PM
I like briefs. I wore boxers for a decade or two because that's what everyone else was doing and what I thougth I SHOULD do. One day donning a pair of briefs laying in the bottom of one of my drawers (note clever use of bottom and drawers in a posting about briefs :eusa_clap ) seemed preferable to doing laundry. I realized them to be a lot more comfortable, and I went to the store to buy more instead of doing laundry.

Lincsong
11-24-2007, 06:52 PM
Leakage????? That's freakin' nasty.:rage:

Jovan
11-24-2007, 10:25 PM
Well, we were fine with mixed company until you started chatting about leakage and bragging. :eek:

Thread title updated.
I just figured it already was aimed towards men only with the talk of "strapping one's boys down" and what not. :eusa_doh: And I surely wasn't bragging! A lot of other guys I know have problems with briefs in that area, and um, I know for a fact they're average. lol

Also, apologies about what you had to edit. I should have just kept it to that sentence. From me, it came off pretty mean.

Jovan
11-24-2007, 10:27 PM
That's interesting. When I was in the US Army we had both types issued to us at different points in time. I am not sure who makes the decisions on this type of stuff or whether it's merely a cost issue. I went through the US Army Ranger school, and most simply didn't wear any underwear at all. The problem was the drying time. The only exception was for long underwear, if they were wool. This was mainly because the wool keeps you warm regardless if it is wet or not. Any cotton undergarments would take forever to dry.

M8
No undies? Yikes! I'm afraid of what would happen.

I wonder who makes the issue ones, and if they're available as surplus...

Martinis at 8
11-25-2007, 07:34 AM
No undies? Yikes! I'm afraid of what would happen.

I wonder who makes the issue ones, and if they're available as surplus...

No surplus anymore, they just acquire them from a standard manufacturer and issue them. Like Haynes, Fruit-of-the-Loom, etc. In my day there were special issues like olive green boxers, olive drab briefs, and traditional whites. My son tells me that is no longer the case. What's issued is the same as you can get at JC Penney. Perhaps some of the active duty military here can inform us different. In any case, nothing stays constant when it comes "standard" issue.

The no-underwear practice is actually common in wet environments. As an example in Ranger school, during the Florida phase one will spend an inordinate amount of time in waist-high water. This is particularly challenging if one goes through this training in the winter time. Getting dry quickly is important, so if one walks out of a swamp and has on cotton underwear one will stay wet and cold longer than one who does not (they don't let you stop to dry off and change). Uh, however, there is sometimes a problem with leeches. Best bet is to go with wool underwear. Keeps one warm while wet, and gives a layer of protection against the leeches.

I think overwhelmingly, those in the military who serve in field environments prefer boxers over briefs. Fly-Boys on the other hand probably prefer briefs :D (except for the Air Force Combat Controllers who went to Ranger school with the rest of us who had to work for a living :D )

M8

luvthatlulu
11-25-2007, 05:50 PM
Fly-Boys on the other hand probably prefer briefs :D (except for the Air Force Combat Controllers who went to Ranger school with the rest of us who had to work for a living :D )

M8


I know you're kidding, but...

clearly you've never flown a Route Pack Six / "Alpha strike" Wild Weasel mission over Hanoi or you wouldn't have made that statement. See your flight leader and his wingman both hit as they start their roll-in and you'll quickly find more important things to worry about than boxers or briefs...just staying focused and keeping them clean for starters! :eek:

I don't want fellow Loungers to get the impression that us (former) "Flyboys" are only about looking dapper and wearing scarves--even if it is a part of our job description!!!


;)

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

Martinis at 8
11-25-2007, 06:38 PM
I know you're kidding, but...

clearly you've never flown a Route Pack Six / "Alpha strike" Wild Weasel mission over Hanoi or you wouldn't have made that statement. See your flight leader and his wingman both hit as they start their roll-in and you'll quickly find more important things to worry about than boxers or briefs...just staying focused and keeping them clean for starters! :eek:

I don't want fellow Loungers to get the impression that us (former) "Flyboys" are only about looking dapper and wearing scarves--even if it is a part of our job description!!!


;)

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

Say what? You want to make this serious? Shall we talk about ground combat versus aerial combat and which is uglier? Or the CAS that arrives too late and/or misplaces its ordnance? We'd have to start another thread on that. But...

I wouldn't want fellow Loungers to think us ground pounders aren't doing the dirty work that needs to be done while the guys with scarves are getting crew rest and hitting on someone's wife back at the canteen ;) This argument is old and has been done over and over again.

Nevertheless, gotta love those Ravens! ;)

luvthatlulu
11-25-2007, 07:36 PM
No, I wasn't trying to make it serious and I wasn't trying to demean your work. I was looking more for a little understanding (and appreciation) of ours. As to which is uglier, air or ground combat, they both are. Screw up in either one and you're dead all the same.

And I swear I never spoke to your wife. Probably some Navy puke. :p Definitely not me. ;)

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

Martinis at 8
11-26-2007, 05:22 AM
No, I wasn't trying to make it serious and I wasn't trying to demean your work. I was looking more for a little understanding (and appreciation) of ours. As to which is uglier, air or ground combat, they both are. Screw up in either one and you're dead all the same.

And I swear I never spoke to your wife. Probably some Navy puke. :p Definitely not me. ;)

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

Haha! I wasn't even married back then. Maybe it was my girlfriend :D And don't even get me started on the Navy!

Actually you can get dead even if you don't screw up. Sad :(

I'm an AGOS graduate (Hurlburt Field), so most of the anti-Flyboy crap I spew I learned from them myself! :D Right there in that canteen of theirs on the beach of Ft. Walton Beach. I guess most veterans are familiar with the jocular debate (though I have seen some rare fights on the issue).

M8

P.S. Did you really fly those souped up F-4's or was that just an example to make the point? I'd say next to the Steve Canyon program, the WW pilots were next on the list of high risk loss.

luvthatlulu
11-26-2007, 08:38 AM
I was flown (WSO/EWO/GIB). I was at Eglin AFB in 1973-74 so I know some of the area well! Had the distinct pleasure of being "shot down" by a VF-84 Tomcat over the Gulf during routine joint-ACM training. Still have a bad taste for "navel a-vee-a-tors" for that reason--but have a healthy respect for them as well as they invariably kept the MiG drivers at bay while I worked in SE Asia.

You guys do a helluva job and if I had to choose between doing your job and fishing--it's fishing every time. Sorry for the misdrops but occasionally we get distracted by all the 27/37/57mm rounds rattling around in the airframe during our runs!:cheers1:

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

Martinis at 8
11-26-2007, 08:48 AM
Man we are going off topic here. But during one exercise at Eglin we called in a Spectre on a night target: a couple shacks and some hulks. It was the scariest thing I have ever seen in my life. A few whispering lights and some poofs and then everything was gone. We were just inside a tree line when we called in the strike. Everyone was stunned :eek:

After the strike the Flyboys banked our way and turned their searchlight right on us (talk about technology). Their smart-ass 6 came over the radio and said, "I see you!" I flipped him the bird and said, "now see this!" :D

luvthatlulu
11-26-2007, 09:01 AM
That proves you're braver than I am!

--Not the Lulu
<--That's the Lulu

oldmansit
11-26-2007, 10:42 AM
No undies? Yikes! I'm afraid of what would happen.

I wonder who makes the issue ones, and if they're available as surplus...

The Marines still issue brown and tan underwear. You can buy them straight from the manufacturer: http://www.camapp.com/briefs.cgi

But for me I like boxers in the summer (keeps the boys cool) and boxerbriefs in the winter (keeps the boys warm).

$ally
11-26-2007, 10:48 AM
This is my favorite thread ever.

Martinis at 8
11-26-2007, 11:52 AM
This is my favorite thread ever.

Boys only $ally! :D

I looked at the link for the Marine Corps briefs. Shall we now start a debate about military colors?

Look at the under shirts found at the same link. I opine that what they call "Army brown" is actually "olive drab" (OD). And that what they call "OD Green" is actually "woodland green".

These are important matters to me, and these people just need to get it right! :rage:

M8 lol

Brian Sheridan
11-26-2007, 12:00 PM
Definitely boxer briefs...I'm quite active and am also prone to random bouts of backflips and dancing...Thus, boxers are not the way to go. Plus, I like the way they look.

I don't dance but agree with your assessment of the boxer brief. It feels like superhero underwear.

BRS

Matt Deckard
11-26-2007, 06:49 PM
You know lemon takes out rust stains!?

Dr Doran
11-26-2007, 07:52 PM
You know lemon takes out rust stains!?

The things you learn on the Lounge.

Orgetorix
11-27-2007, 05:44 AM
You know lemon takes out rust stains!?

You get rust stains in your underwear?

Miss Neecerie
11-27-2007, 07:06 AM
Those new fangled low carb high iron diets.

Shaul-Ike Cohen
11-27-2007, 10:01 AM
You know lemon takes out rust stains!?

You misunderstood something when people told you to iron your clothing.

carebear
11-27-2007, 11:44 AM
I didn't think brass rusted?

Jovan
11-28-2007, 12:32 AM
The Marines still issue brown and tan underwear. You can buy them straight from the manufacturer: http://www.camapp.com/briefs.cgi

But for me I like boxers in the summer (keeps the boys cool) and boxerbriefs in the winter (keeps the boys warm).
It's a shame they don't sell any flyless boxer briefs. I've been looking for some forever, but they always have a "pouch" feature, which I dislike. Of course, it's not nearly as bad as some of the monstrosities at International Male (http://www.internationalmale.com/dept.asp?dept%5Fname=Underwear&dept%5Fid=10580). :eusa_doh:

Baron Kurtz
11-28-2007, 01:01 AM
Re: international male.

Looks like normal underwear to me.

bk

Jovan
11-28-2007, 01:02 AM
You haven't looked at the uh... enhancement pouches, have you?

Feng_Li
12-13-2007, 05:35 PM
I've worn boxers since middle school, but lately I've begun playing the pipe organ again. For those who don't know, organ technique requires that the organist sit with the knees and heels held tightly together, so that he can gauge intervals on the pedalboard. Because of this, I've discovered I need some more supportive underwear than I currently have.

I saw in some other threads that boxer-briefs have a following, and I wanted to ask for recommendations on makers and sellers.

cooncatbob
12-13-2007, 05:49 PM
I've worn boxers since middle school, but lately I've begun playing the pipe organ again. For those who don't know, organ technique requires that the organist sit with the knees and heels held tightly together, so that he can gauge intervals on the pedalboard. Because of this, I've discovered I need some more supportive underwear than I currently have.

I saw in some other threads that boxer-briefs have a following, and I wanted to ask for recommendations on makers and sellers.

Hanes, available at most stores.

BrotherBob
12-23-2007, 01:41 AM
... the guy in the tighty-whities from Rocky Horror ("Brad") is Barry Bostwidk, the Mayor from "Spin City".

Another pro for briefs (not white ones) is that they leave both hands free. It's like a friendly hand on your package at all times. Very reassuring.

Patrick Murtha
12-23-2007, 07:55 AM
I don't dance but agree with your assessment of the boxer brief. It feels like superhero underwear.

Boxer-briefs are the goods. The cut is very important. My BVD boxer-briefs are perfect, but the Dockers boxer-briefs I recently bought (because J.C. Penney was out of the BVDs) are cut too short in the leg. They're just not as comfortable.

Jovan
12-23-2007, 08:42 AM
Avoid anything Dockers. The trousers down to the shirts and underwear aren't very well made at all. :eusa_doh:

vintage68
12-27-2007, 02:14 PM
Just wanted to say I found a company that makes great quality boxers, with an old fashioned navy and white stripe:

Mercerandsons.com

They also make great custom shirts!

jake_fink
12-27-2007, 03:01 PM
I wish I knew why I just read this entire thread.

I wish I had those 11 minutes of my life back.

I wish I cared more about my underpants. I feel like such a prole.

I can offer only that I'll wear briefs when I know I'm doing something that may cause, erm, movement, so I want the support; and I'll wear boxers when I know I'll be in a chair and want to feel less... restricted. I also firmly believe that unless you are traveling in a waterless wasteland underpants should be worn once and then washed.

I will never return.

Chas
12-28-2007, 12:53 AM
Avoid anything Dockers. The trousers down to the shirts and underwear aren't very well made at all. :eusa_doh:

Woah! Don't I know it...rip off...

JC Penney's sells BVDs??

Bugsy
12-28-2007, 08:46 PM
Good Morning Gentlemen,
One of the things I haven't heard much about or seen any threads on are boxers. However, as my supply of boxers, which were purchased all at once several years ago, finds itself to now be rather worn, I'm looking at replacements. Being a guy who buy's American WHENEVER possible, I did a search and came across this site: http://www.cityboxers.com/

Their boxers appear to be of great quality, and they have a massive selection of colors and styles. And they are American Made!

With the movies back in the 1930s - 1950s being clean, especially by today's standards, I can't recall seeing any of the greats parading around on screen in their boxers, or unlike today, hanging out the back of their pants in a so-called "fashion statement".

I'm now wondering what existed back then as far as styles and available colors. On one hand, I'd like to imagine that boxers were like the 1940's ties, available in any design or color one would desire. On the other hand, I picture everybody in just white undershirts and shorts, ala the way the military was at the time, and to my knowledge still is.

I'm going to be picking up ten or fifteen pairs before too long, but would like some input. I assume the "shirting designs" would be the most appropriate? They seem the most appealing to me, although I also like the flannels and some of the solid colors. I'm not at all into the ones with designs on them though.

I ordered boxers from City Boxers. I found the quality to be very high, and service excellent. I also like the way you can design you boxers not only with the fabric one chooses, but also the design such as length, and waistband construction. GOod company to do business with.

Classics
12-31-2007, 06:15 PM
I, apparently like most, wore briefs as a kid. I moved to boxers in high school. I'm in the process of switching to boxer-briefs. Best of both worlds. Golden mean. Middle Path. All that.

Jovan
01-01-2008, 12:35 AM
I'll drink to that! Congrats on discovering the great comfort and utility of the boxer brief.

ukali1066
01-01-2008, 01:18 AM
It may be too much info...but I wear neither....they just seem a really pointless item of clothing to me

PeeWee
01-01-2008, 08:07 AM
Boxers..100% cotton...plaids.

Bugsy
01-10-2008, 03:11 PM
Where can one get boxers like that these days?


From the pages of APPAREL ARTS trade magazine, Winter 1932. Look at the left column:


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b362/Veronicaparra/Morephotos031.jpg

scotrace
01-10-2008, 04:55 PM
The Vermont Country Store. You want the French Back Boxers. (http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=boxers)

Hey! They are ON SALE!

carter
01-10-2008, 05:51 PM
The Vermont Country Store. You want the French Back Boxers. (http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=boxers)

Hey! They are ON SALE!

Thanks for the link! Ordered one of each color.

merkman
01-10-2008, 06:01 PM
In the words of Kramer, "my boys need a house"
Briefs for me ........

Dr Doran
01-10-2008, 06:41 PM
BOXERS. cheap. Ross.

shindeco
01-10-2008, 11:05 PM
Where can one get boxers like that these days?
Brooks Brothers still sells both a tie back and a French back.

dhermann1
01-11-2008, 12:04 PM
Briefs, but in warm weather I sleep in boxers. I don't like the feel of the knit jersey boxer/briefs, they feel like my trousers are falling down!

Bugsy
01-12-2008, 04:37 PM
Wow Johnnysan!! Thanks - Vermont Country Store was the only place i've seen these and they want $25 a pop.

Cool!


You might also try going to brooksbrothers.com and do a search for the Tie back boxer shorts. They are wonderful.

Bugsy
01-12-2008, 04:40 PM
I can not stand the smell of bleach. But I've recently begun using Oxyclean with the whites, we'll see how well it works at preventing greying.


They protect suit/sportcoats from sweat stains. I never wore undershirts until, as an adult, I moved to Houston. One of my partners, a native Houstonian, clued me in to wearing undershirts to stay cooler in the brutal heat and humidity. I tried it even though it sounded incongruous to add another layer of clothing to beat the heat. He was right.[huh]

Try Biz. It's much less expensive then Oxyclean and does a much better job.

Tomasso
01-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Try Biz. It's much less expensive then Oxyclean and does a much better job.Thanks, I'll give some a try. Liquid or powder?

Bugsy
01-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Thanks, I'll give some a try. Liquid or powder?

Powder.

Mike in Seattle
01-16-2008, 04:06 PM
I didn't think brass rusted?

What you were aiming at just dawned on me... :eusa_doh:

Bravo! :eusa_clap ;)

Bugsy
01-16-2008, 04:11 PM
What you were aiming at just dawned on me... :eusa_doh:

Bravo! :eusa_clap ;)

Glad I could be of service.

dhermann1
01-16-2008, 07:05 PM
You can usually use less laundry detergent and bleach than what's recommended on label. If you have reasonably soft water you can get away with half the detergent recommended, and I tend to use that as a rule of thumb on bleach as well. Half the value of bleach on underwear is as a germ killer, and the smaller amount is adequate for that, too.
I feel extremely uncomfortable without a t shirt underneath. They seem to moderate the extremes of hot and cold, and in New York you tend to get extremes of temperature from minute to minute, outside in the cold with heavy coat, then in the subway with excessive heat.

carebear
01-16-2008, 08:40 PM
This...


You know lemon takes out rust stains!?

Then...


You get rust stains in your underwear?

Thus...


I didn't think brass rusted?

and Therefore...


What you were aiming at just dawned on me... :eusa_doh:

Bravo! :eusa_clap ;)

Subtlety, my middle name. :D

Bugsy
01-16-2008, 10:24 PM
This...



Then...



Thus...



and Therefore...



Subtlety, my middle name. :D

You are a card, not a joker, but something to be dealt with.

Bugsy
01-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Geezaloo... I haven't worn briefs regularly in years. After the ones I had became worn out and outgrown, I replaced them with boxers, and I've stuck with boxers since. That was back in high school, when no guy who didn't want to get a complementary wedgie wore briefs. I recently found a single pair of briefs lying around in my undershirt drawer, and wore them for a day, then tossed them out. I found them to be far less comfortable / more restricting, and almost confused myself when I went to use the urinal. Perhaps this is because I'm used to the boxers now.

I have nothing against briefs though, many of my male family members still wear them.
Where can one purchase American made briefs?

You shouldn't have thrown them away. They make great dust rags.

SamMarlowPI
01-21-2008, 11:10 PM
boxers and beaters...

Bugsy
02-07-2008, 02:29 PM
For confirmed boxer wearers, the tie back boxers from Brooks Brothers are great, pricey but great.


The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquility which religion is powerless to bestow.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

shindeco
02-10-2008, 11:53 PM
Bugsy,

Have you tried their French backs? I've tried both and can't decide which I like best but I think the French back wins by a hair.

scotrace
02-11-2008, 08:53 AM
I am liking the tie backs from Vermont Country Store very much. They sit very high at the waist (above the belly button) and from the back they look almost Williamsburg-Colonial. Hard to describe. They are also more fitted in the seat than common boxers. I don't think they would work out if a chap had much of a front porch.
They are also very comfortable as there is no elastic to dig at your middle.

MK
02-11-2008, 09:21 AM
The sense of being perfectly well dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquility which religion is powerless to bestow.

Ralph Waldo Emerson


I guess Ralph never met Jesus.

Feraud
02-11-2008, 09:25 AM
I am liking the tie backs from Vermont Country Store very much. Does Vermont still carry them?
I checked the website and do not see it..

Bugsy
02-11-2008, 09:38 AM
Bugsy,

Have you tried their French backs? I've tried both and can't decide which I like best but I think the French back wins by a hair.

I have tried the French back boxers, but the buttons seems to get in my way for some reason. The tie backs were also easier to adjust--at least to my waist. However, like you, I have both.

Best,
R

scotrace
02-11-2008, 01:20 PM
Does Vermont still carry them?
I checked the website and do not see it..


http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=French+boxers

Bugsy
02-11-2008, 04:35 PM
http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7919&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=French+boxers

I thought they still did carry them. If they don't try brooksbrothers.com. They used to.

shortbow
06-30-2008, 03:47 PM
It is currently 100 degrees, so I am indoors wearing a "wifebeater" undershirt, so as not to frighten the dog by going bare chested. Forgive that appellation but I don't know what they are properly called in NA, although I believe they are known as "vests" in the UK.

Anyhow, I only have this one, and I save it for this purpose. My question is:

As an undershirt, what is the point of them as opposed to T's? Seems to me they can't protect the shirt's underarms nor the neck area. I know they were universally used in days of yore, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why.

Can anybody enlighten me?

Apologies to the ladies and those of a delicate sensibility, but where else could I ask?

Thanks eh?

univibe88
06-30-2008, 05:52 PM
I believe it is properly called an A-shirt. I find that when it is so hot that I'm going to sweat through a t-shirt undershirt anyway, that I'll go for the a-shirt and try to keep a little cooler

BellyTank
06-30-2008, 11:06 PM
I believe, the original purpose, or an earlier usage, in England,
at least, was as an "Athletic Vest". Not an undershirt, no use for sleeves.
Also commonly known as a singlet- at least in the Antipodes.


B
T

Baron Kurtz
07-01-2008, 02:33 AM
I've never quite been able to work out whether the undershirt was intended for:

1) protection of the overgarments from sweat

2) layers for insulation in colder weather

3) prevention of unsightly nipple showing through the overshirt.

Maybe it was for all 3. The only one which a vest is useless for is the first, since the armpits are the greatest sweat producers in the upper body.

bk

Flivver
07-01-2008, 03:43 AM
A-Shirts...back in the early 1960s, Boston radio personality Dave Maynard (WBZ) waged a campaign to convince the men of New England to stop wearing exposed sleeveless undershirts. He considered them to be the height of tackiness and my mom agreed. She would never let my dad wear one under any circumstances.

Our next door neighbor *always* wore one of these shirts when he worked in the yard. My mom used to complain: "If only Dave Maynard could see *this*!"

Ranger01
07-01-2008, 04:52 AM
I wear one every day, my main reasons have been:
1. When I wear a white shirt i dont want ppl to be able to see under it (modesty I guess)
2. When working I commonly have my shirt un tucked (so I dont have to worry about tucking it in constantly). Also I have a fondness for big belt buckles, so it helps me keep from getting buckle rash, and there isnt a plumbers crack showing when I bend over.
3. They actualy DO help soak up sweat.
4. T-Shirts just feel constricting under a button up shirt... Something about the sleeves... it irritates me (I have OCD by the way)
5. I believe they look better under a button up... I dont like undershirts showing.. there is a reason they are called "under shirts" yaknow.

Shaul-Ike Cohen
07-01-2008, 05:14 AM
I've never quite been able to work out whether the undershirt was intended for:

1) protection of the overgarments from sweat

2) layers for insulation in colder weather

3) prevention of unsightly nipple showing through the overshirt.

Maybe it was for all 3. The only one which a vest is useless for is the first, since the armpits are the greatest sweat producers in the upper body.

I had asked myself the same question, and answered it with 1) and 2) mainly, where 1) includes protection from seeing sweat on a shirt.

I never wore one, always what they call a gob style vest or "T-shirt". People who know wonder why in the heat of summer I put on another layer, and if so, why not an A shirt. The obvious answer is that well-made cotton undershirts aren't that warm, but keep the sweat off the shirt, and it would be not half as useful if you spare out the armpits.

So, one of the things where I decidedly don't go vintage-style.

shortbow
07-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Well I just lost a long post in response, frustrated and disinclined to re-write it, let me just say thanks for all the replies.

Edward
07-02-2008, 02:15 AM
As of a few months ago, I've been wearing an 'A' / vest daily. I did wear them as a child, way, way back, for an extra warming layer in the winter. For many year thereafter, I simply wore whatever regular t shirt. This changed last Spring - shortly after I saw one of the Addams Family movies yet again, and became very taken with the image of effortless cool projected by a housebound Gomez Addams sitting around in one. I guess the vintage style (and ready availability of cheap and AFAIK ethically sourced examples in my local Sainsburys) appealed to me... There's just something I prefer about the look of the 'A' type over the 'T' style. I understand the argument re armpits, though I don't find that much of a problem. (Maybe I'm just lucky enough not to stain badly with underarm sweat). Into the Summer now, I decided to give them a go following recommendations on the loun ge, and I've been pleantly surprised at the difference it makes. It definitely helps keep me cooler, and sweat over the back of my shoulders (which does happen - outside of my own home and office, I very rarely remove my jacket) soaks into the vest instead of showing through the shirt. The A design also avoids, as mentioned above, any feeling of being 'constricted' in the arms, which I like. Of course, it probably helps too that I tend towards white shirts which don't show up a sweat mark as easily as ,say, a pale blue - some T styles might become necessary if I do end up gonig for different colour shirts at a later stage.

shortbow
07-02-2008, 10:47 AM
Thanks Ed, good insights. Speaking of white shirts, why would anyone wear anything else ever?:D

univibe88
07-02-2008, 08:23 PM
They already have those now - it's called a bra. lol

Mike in Seattle
07-02-2008, 08:29 PM
They already have those now - it's called a bra. lol

Well, on Seinfeld, "the Bro" was the name Jerry Stiller christened his version...

John in Covina
07-02-2008, 08:56 PM
The A-shirt when it is a printed or picture bearing shirt or in non-white color, and therefore not an undershirt is called a tank top in some areas.

Edward
07-03-2008, 05:39 AM
The A-shirt when it is a printed or picture bearing shirt or in non-white color, and therefore not an undershirt is called a tank top in some areas.

I hear that here with some ranges, though I think that's a US import. What I understand by "tank top" is a sleeveless sweater....

"Two countries divided by a common language" and all that! lol

dr greg
07-03-2008, 03:06 PM
here's where it all started
http://www.essortment.com/all/legendsshearing_rvha.htm

tonyb
07-03-2008, 10:14 PM
I just assumed they serve much the same purpose as a woman's slip -- to render what lies beneath less visually conspicuous. In the case of the undershirts, what is concealed is chest and/or back hair, as well as those (sometimes) perky little man nips.

Being as hairy of torso as your average gorilla, I can tell you that the hair does indeed show through some lighter weight shirt fabrics. Not that I'm much concerned with that, but if I were, I might resort to wearing undershirts.

Maguire
07-03-2008, 10:26 PM
I've decided to start using some wife beaters recently and although i find them more comfortable, i've had to stop- they've ruined nearly every dress shirt i own because the sweat stains simply don't go away. I don't understand how anyone can wear them under a dress shirt and not end up with the messed up, stained, yellow armpit look. Its disgusting and frustrating, since it looks unclean despite my showering daily and maintaining good hygiene.

BellyTank
07-03-2008, 10:46 PM
I never wear an "undershirt" beneath a shirt.

After hearing the undershirt-under-dress shirt-necessity discussion
about 100 times, I remain unconvinced.

I've never had a situation where a shirt looked bad when worn due to sweating, never had the shirt become sweat stained, much less ruined.
It seems a strange notion, wearing an extra layer to protect your shirt
from sweat- that sounds Victorian thinking at work.
A visible undershirt looks tacky- especially a T-shirt.

Surely a "good", white dress shirt is opaque enough, due to it's
"good" quality, that an undershirt doesn't need to be used for reasons of
modesty/perceived good taste.

Maybe this is part of the reason that many Americans seem to wear dress shirts on the large side- to accommodate this extra layer.
I notice quite often, the collar being a size or two too big and cranked down
with the tie.

There must be laundry products available, to remove sweat stains, if normal washing isn't good enough.

Undershirt wearing sounds like such a drag but it seems to be a cultural norm in some places,
even if not always practical

I know, I know...


B
T

shortbow
07-03-2008, 10:51 PM
Hey Doc, thanks for that link, it's good to know where the dang things come from and they certainly make sense in that context. How they ended up being so widely used as an undershirt remains a mystery. Can't speak for OZ of course, but over on this side of the pond it seems that you shouldn't be allowed to wear one in public unless you are prepared to stand in the middle of the street and shout "Stellaaaaa!" at the top of your lungs.

Shaul-Ike Cohen
07-04-2008, 05:15 AM
It seems a strange notion, wearing an extra layer to protect your shirt from sweat- that sounds Victorian thinking at work.


The idea is if it's well made, it adds only little warmth, and so, sweat, while it soaks up the sweat that'll be there anyway. Might even provide a cooling distance between skin and shirt, and so reduce sweating. Probably so with a good cotton fabric, maybe profiled, and a bad polyester shirt.

dr greg
07-04-2008, 04:15 PM
Hey Doc, thanks for that link, it's good to know where the dang things come from and they certainly make sense in that context. How they ended up being so widely used as an undershirt remains a mystery. Can't speak for OZ of course, but over on this side of the pond it seems that you shouldn't be allowed to wear one in public unless you are prepared to stand in the middle of the street and shout "Stellaaaaa!" at the top of your lungs.
It's quite acceptable in this country to wear them as a single garment during the day, but at night one would have to be hanging out at either a mining camp or an inner city gay bar to get away with it. The G&L crew really adopted a lot of 'working class' apparel over here and make up a lot of my customers for most of the sort of stuff we discuss here....and they've always got money, the pram-pushers wistfully fondle the vintage gear, and move on as the wife glares at me for tempting the breadwinner with illicit pleasures:)

shortbow
07-04-2008, 11:00 PM
Take a woman with you shopping for your clothing?:eek: When hell freezes....:D

MPicciotto
07-09-2008, 02:53 PM
I'm an HVAC tech and am in house, under houses on roof tops and in attics all day long. Our "uniform" at my company is a polo or t-shirt with the company name and logo and blue pants. I wear an undershirt under the polo and the t-shirt every day of the year. I find it's an extra layer in the winter and in the summer it wicks away the sweat and I feel cooler. It also lets me twist and turn and slide as I climb through crawl spaces and attics without binding up, the other day short on laundry I wore just a t-shirt without an undershirt to work. UGG!! Can't stand it now. As an added bonus the undershirt keeps my belt from digging into my excess gut when I'm wearing shirts not meant to be tucked in like my Cubavera shirts. And yes I do find it cooler to wear two shirts even when its 100 degrees!! And one attic I went into was 127.

Matt

shortbow
07-09-2008, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the contribution Matt, I'm going to give it a try.

WideBrimm
07-09-2008, 04:46 PM
I've decided to start using some wife beaters recently and although i find them more comfortable, i've had to stop- they've ruined nearly every dress shirt i own because the sweat stains simply don't go away. I don't understand how anyone can wear them under a dress shirt and not end up with the messed up, stained, yellow armpit look. Its disgusting and frustrating, since it looks unclean despite my showering daily and maintaining good hygiene.


Sweat Stains? :eek:
Try switching deodorants. Sometimes its the ingredients, such as in the roll-ons (as opposed to sprays) which leave the stains.

Rachael
07-09-2008, 05:53 PM
I was under the impression that the 'tank top' came into fashion in the late '40s when soldiers came home from the war with them, thus the name. I do know that as recently as 1994, this was a standard issue undergarment in the USMC.

As to their usefulness, we today have adopted the habit of wearing only the outer layer of clothing, where previous generations would have multiple layers. And the extra layer does not necessarily add warmth, provided that it is cotton. As many have already said, the wicking nature of the fabric actually keeps one cooler. People in the desert do not walk around naked, they wear two or three layers of lightweight natural fibers. Just last weekend I spent several comfortable afternoons wearing 3-5 layers in the lovely Independence Day sun. And a corset, which may soon come back in fashion for men...

Regarding men's white shirts and opacity, many fine cottons and linens are nearly sheer. This allows circulation but also can provide a peek at one's chest hair, thus the need for an undergarment.

Shaul-Ike Cohen
07-10-2008, 12:41 AM
Sweat Stains? :eek:
Try switching deodorants. Sometimes its the ingredients, such as in the roll-ons (as opposed to sprays) which leave the stains.

In fact, those annoying yellow stains aren't sweat. The bad news is that they look repellent to most anyway and ugly to the rest, and that you don't get them out even in normal dry cleaning, let alone through bleaching at home. This is less about the mode of application, it's a typical thing of antiperspirants, as opposed to deodorants, as a result of some aluminium compound, if I remember correctly.

Maguire
07-10-2008, 01:11 AM
Sweat Stains? :eek:
Try switching deodorants. Sometimes its the ingredients, such as in the roll-ons (as opposed to sprays) which leave the stains.
I never use sprays, and i've tried just about every kind of deodorant imagineable. I find i have an allergic reaction to the only type of Deodorant that actually stopped that from happening. And let me get this straight, anti perspirants work better or worse at avoiding these stains?

Shaul-Ike Cohen
07-10-2008, 02:07 AM
anti perspirants work better or worse at avoiding these stains?

Worse, the antiperspirant agent is what causes it.

So, if you have a "classic" deodorant, which mainly puts a layer of perfume on your sweat and might work against bacteria through alcohol, the stains you might get are mostly from the sweat itself and what the bacteria make of it. An antiperspirant tries to stop the sweating in the first place, and some actaully are very efficient in that, but they contain a compound (usually aluminium zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly) that tends to leave those yellow stains when it does get in contact with sweat after all.

The advisable thing to do seems to be: if you have a problem with sweat odour even though you take a shower every day, adding a deodorant (perfume) to it won't help much. To avoid the stains from antiperspirants, wait until it's dried before you dress the vest. Change your vest daily even if it still looks fresh.

Edward
07-10-2008, 05:24 AM
That's my thing. I've long used an anti-perspirant instad of a deodorant, and always wait for it to dry in before I put a layer on over it - never had a problem. The only shirts that really got a stain (and then not much of a one) were darker coloured shirts I'd had for years on end....

I also change both shirt and undershirt daily, which I think helps - not so much soiling on it getting engrained (I've heard of folks getting 2 or three days out of a shirt - yuck!).

Baron Kurtz
07-10-2008, 06:39 AM
I only once had trouble with sweat stains on shirts. I went to the wardrobe and every white shirt in there had bright orange armpit stains. (???) Very weird one-off occurrence. Never saw it before or since.

I believe i used Shout pre-wash cleaner and all the stains came out during a regular laundering.

I never wear undershirts and use a regular deodorant rather than an anti-perspirant. I hate the idea of screwing with my physiology to such an extent simply so other people won't be bothered by a slight smell. I actually like the smell of my own sweat. Not that i sweat very much. I can see why you would want to reduce sweating if you sweated lots and the sweat smelled bad.

bk

SGT Rocket
07-10-2008, 08:42 AM
I've decided to start using some wife beaters recently and although i find them more comfortable, i've had to stop- they've ruined nearly every dress shirt i own because the sweat stains simply don't go away. I don't understand how anyone can wear them under a dress shirt and not end up with the messed up, stained, yellow armpit look. Its disgusting and frustrating, since it looks unclean despite my showering daily and maintaining good hygiene.

I've heard that the yellow stains on your shirt are the result of your deodorant working in conjunction with your sweat. If you change your deodorant, then you may lose your yellow stains.

I can imagine the wife beater being worn under clothes in the south in the hot summer months-- before deodorant was big. It's much cooler than a T-shirt and has the benefit of not having your dress shirt stick to the leather/vinyl in your car (before air conditioning).

I know when I lived in Texas, and my AC was out on the car, I really needed a wife beater so that my shirt would not get stuck to my body. Noting like going to work with the back of your shirt wet and sticking to your back. Yuck!!!!

Edward
07-10-2008, 09:04 AM
I never wear undershirts and use a regular deodorant rather than an anti-perspirant. I hate the idea of screwing with my physiology to such an extent simply so other people won't be bothered by a slight smell. I actually like the smell of my own sweat. Not that i sweat very much. I can see why you would want to reduce sweating if you sweated lots and the sweat smelled bad.

bk

Are there health issues with anti-p's?

I was looking at some oragnic thingummy in Spitalfields market the other week, supposed to be a total repalcement for anti-perpriant, all natural, and claimed that some folks might even find it so effective it only needed used infrequently.... sounded too good to be true to me, but i'm open to something more natural if it comes along.

Smithy
07-10-2008, 09:08 AM
There's been a bit of an hoofluff about the ones that have aluminium in them Edward. Some say that it's not terribly good for you.

Baron Kurtz
07-10-2008, 09:09 AM
Are there health issues with anti-p's?


No real health issues that i know of (except the potential or aluminium poisoning which i reckon is probably overblown).

But the idea of blocking a natural process of the body - i.e. sweating - fills me with worry. Are the pores going to get clogged and result in spots? Where is the stuff going that was supposed to come out of the armpits? Surely you're just going to sweat more in other places (let's say the crotch) and the smell will be the same or worse in the end? And if you block all sweating - one of the body's major heat-regulation mechanisms - what will be the result on the rest of your physiological processes? We are very finely tuned machines, and can take very little above 37 C core temperature before we die.

For these reasons and more, i shy away from screwing with my physiology whenever i can help it.

bk

Edward
07-10-2008, 09:30 AM
No real health issues that i know of (except the potential or aluminium poisoning which i reckon is probably overblown).

But the idea of blocking a natural process of the body - i.e. sweating - fills me with worry. Are the pores going to get clogged and result in spots? Where is the stuff going that was supposed to come out of the armpits? Surely you're just going to sweat more in other places (let's say the crotch) and the smell will be the same or worse in the end? And if you block all sweating - one of the body's major heat-regulation mechanisms - what will be the result on the rest of your physiological processes? We are very finely tuned machines, and can take very little above 37 C core temperature before we die.

For these reasons and more, i shy away from screwing with my physiology whenever i can help it.

bk

Good point.... I've not given that much thought to this side of it, but having no problems in that area maybe I'm just lucky that the anti-p I habitually use works in line with my body chemistry somehow? I might well check out the 'natural' options instead. It makes sense not to inhibit natural processes where possible. The one big problem I used to have with simple deodorants was that I could never find one that actually was up to the job, and in any case those aimed at men (Lynx in particular, as I recall) I found aq considerably more unpleasant smell than the sweat would be for the most part!

Of course, it's not (generally) the sweating that is the problem, as I understand it - the commonly considered to be unpleasant smell of armpit sweat is actually caused by sweat being held in by clothes rather than allowed to escape, right? Which may be an argument in favour of the A shirt design, as it helps to keep as few layers of clothing between the pits and the outside world as possible?

Maguire
07-10-2008, 12:30 PM
Worse, the antiperspirant agent is what causes it.

So, if you have a "classic" deodorant, which mainly puts a layer of perfume on your sweat and might work against bacteria through alcohol, the stains you might get are mostly from the sweat itself and what the bacteria make of it. An antiperspirant tries to stop the sweating in the first place, and some actaully are very efficient in that, but they contain a compound (usually aluminium zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly) that tends to leave those yellow stains when it does get in contact with sweat after all.

The advisable thing to do seems to be: if you have a problem with sweat odour even though you take a shower every day, adding a deodorant (perfume) to it won't help much. To avoid the stains from antiperspirants, wait until it's dried before you dress the vest. Change your vest daily even if it still looks fresh.

Yes i admit its probably my fault there- oftentimes i'm in a rush and i just grab the shirt and put it on very soon after putting on the deodorant. i suppose i have to be more strict about this. that and switch to deodorant. And yes, this problem occurs despite showering everyday (if not more).

chuckknight
07-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Worse, the antiperspirant agent is what causes it.

So, if you have a "classic" deodorant, which mainly puts a layer of perfume on your sweat and might work against bacteria through alcohol, the stains you might get are mostly from the sweat itself and what the bacteria make of it.

I use something called "Crystal deodorant" or "rock deodorant." You can buy it at almost any health food store, and even some WalMarts. It's expensive but cheap...$6-10 per container, but a container lasts for 1 to 2 years. Yes, I'm serious. It's a natural crystal, containing no aluminum, which works to prevent the bacteria from producing that sweat smell.

By the way, sweat does not smell, and is clear...it's the bacterial byproducts that are the problem. This stuff attacks the bacteria, specifically.


http://www.travelproducts.com/store/media/Crystal.jpg

It took me a few weeks to get used to -- used to use an antiperspirant, and this is only a deodorant, so I wasn't used to being "moist". It also doesn't feel like there's anything left, once applied...instead of that "smearing Crisco under my arms" feeling you get with a deodorant stick.

After the first few weeks, I adjusted to it, and while I do sweat, I sweat more evenly, and much less overall. Apparently blocking the sweat glands under the arms MAKES it come out somewhere else...my chest and back were never merely wet...they were always drenched! And, yes, everything I owned was stained with "sweat."

No more stains on anything I own.

Anyway, the natural stuff works great, is completely unscented (I hate perfumes) so your underarms won't be fighting your fragrance of choice, and it works out to be incredibly cheap.

Try a rock.

Chuck

Maguire
07-10-2008, 09:02 PM
I used it and had an allergic reaction :(. It worked wonders until then though.

Mike in Seattle
07-10-2008, 09:19 PM
In fact, those annoying yellow stains aren't sweat. The bad news is that they look repellent to most anyway and ugly to the rest, and that you don't get them out even in normal dry cleaning, let alone through bleaching at home. This is less about the mode of application, it's a typical thing of antiperspirants, as opposed to deodorants, as a result of some aluminium compound, if I remember correctly.

Oxyclean MIGHT remove them since it goes after "organic" stains. Just a thought... I've had things that the dry cleaners using all of their chemical magic couldn't remove and a few hours in Oxyclean and the problem's gone.

Tomasso
07-11-2008, 12:54 AM
The idea is if it's well made, it adds only little warmth, and so, sweat, while it soaks up the sweat that'll be there anyway. Might even provide a cooling distance between skin and shirt, and so reduce sweating.BINGO!!!.

Though it does sound incongruous, I've found that wearing an undershirt keeps me cooler in the Summer. I became a believer many years ago when spending a lot of time in Houston,TX. I was struggling to stay dry in their brutal Summers when a native clued me into the practice.

Edward
07-11-2008, 06:21 AM
Try a rock.

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck - that's something very much like what I saw in the organic place I mentioned. Good to know it works, I'll give that a go soon as.

shortbow
07-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Well, I've tried it over the last two days, and although it is counter-intuitive for moi, it works. Even went out for a mow this morning, and wore a flannel shirt over the A shirt to add fuel to the fire, and I was definitely cooler and less sticky than with shirt alone.;) Thanks for the tips. Wish somebody had told me this about a zillion years ago. Chalk up one more for the old way of doing things.

Shaul-Ike Cohen
07-14-2008, 05:11 AM
I never wear undershirts and use a regular deodorant rather than an anti-perspirant. I hate the idea of screwing with my physiology to such an extent simply so other people won't be bothered by a slight smell. […]
But the idea of blocking a natural process of the body - i.e. sweating - fills me with worry. Are the pores going to get clogged and result in spots?

I don't understand this principle thing - we're manipulating our physiology all the time, be it by washing, shaving or by what we eat, let alone drink and smoke, even legally. The producers of anti-perspirants claim that the overall process of sweating isn't influenced, as most of the body merrily goes on sweating. (I should be careful with the Auric brand maybe.)

Also, you'd probably have to use a lot of a very effective antiperspirant on shaved skin in order to block all the glands of an area, not apply a casual pfft-pfft on your half-wet unshaved skin when you come out of the shower, as most people do (in non-paedophile Europe).



actually like the smell of my own sweat. Not that i sweat very much. I can see why you would want to reduce sweating if you sweated lots and the sweat smelled bad.

This is an entirely different issue, and as you indicate, you might be more conceding about messing with your physiology if you or your immediate environment wouldn't like the scent.

But even if it's not about the smell - most people probably don't much smell as long as the sweat is fresh - I can understand that people don't want watery stains under their arms. "Boss, that's fresh sweat, really," doesn't help in all companies.

Matt Deckard
12-10-2008, 03:20 PM
I've recently moved from Boxer briefs to trunks and find the legs ride up less than the boxer shorts since the legs are shorter.

I think I need to lose a bit more weight before I switch to boxers... I just don't like material bunching around while I'm walking or dancing.

MrBern
12-10-2008, 05:47 PM
C'mon Matt, just go for a thong. No legs to ride up!

Matt Deckard
12-10-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm thinking... but only leather.

Bugsy
12-10-2008, 10:17 PM
I'm thinking... but only leather.

OUCH!!

carebear
12-11-2008, 02:25 AM
I'm thinking... but only leather.

I'm trying to remember which forum I'm on that had the thread on Gold Bond powder...

:D

scotrace
12-11-2008, 05:14 AM
I'm thinking... but only leather.


"And our newest line at Matt Deckard Apparel for '09..."

Feraud
12-11-2008, 07:50 AM
This thread took an odd turn..

_RAGNAR_
12-12-2008, 06:06 PM
I used to wear a t-shirt but they tent to cause strange patterns against the dress shirt every so often. Switched to Under-Armor thats a half size too big (so it is loose) and that works fantastic.


underarmor makes a cotton look/feel loose undershirt now.

CaptainB
04-27-2009, 12:12 AM
Dear Loungers,
I've got the problem that with every white dress shirt I own, one can see my undershirt through it. Is there any fabric especially recommended to solve this problem, or were shirts just from a thicker fabric in the old days, when everybody wore something underneath?

Thank you,
CaptainB

BellyTank
04-27-2009, 12:26 AM
The undershirt has been discussed on the FL, at some length.
I don't like them and am of the opinion that a good quality white shirt should be opaque enough that it doesn't show what's beneath- be it an undershirt, or lack thereof.

I can't vouch for the thickness/opacity of all vintage shirts, however.


B
T

Orsini
04-27-2009, 01:07 AM
Dear Loungers,
I've got the problem that with every white dress shirt I own, one can see my undershirt through it. Is there any fabric especially recommended to solve this problem, or were shirts just from a thicker fabric in the old days, when everybody wore something underneath?

Thank you,
CaptainBYou might try undershirts that are a mottled grey color -- sometimes merchandised as "oatmeal." They do not show through the dress shirt quite so badly. If the dress shirt will be worn with a tie, make sure the undershirt is a crew neck. Otherwise, wear a v-neck.

Corky
04-27-2009, 01:16 AM
I think the problem you describe has to do with thread count.

Thread count is a measure of the coarseness or fineness of fabric. It is measured by counting the number of threads contained in one square inch of fabric, including both the length (warp) and width (weft) threads.

In an effort to justify higher prices, high-end retailers have started selling men's cotton shirts with thread-counts as high as 220. On a typical men's shirt, thread-counts, which measure the number of threads per square inch, are about 100 or less.

Look for a heavy weight all cotton fabric with reasonably thick diameter of thread and a high thread count (say 150 threads per inch) and your problem should be solved.

Brooks Brothers Pinpoint Oxford is an example of a very tightly woven fabric with a very high thread count per inch, making the fabric very soft, like a silk or broadcloth.

Highlander
04-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Personally I prefer an T-shirt under my dress shirts. Makes them look smoother, and even in warm weather to me they are cooler. Also, I've seen so many guys that have swear stains under their arms. ICK...

shortbow
04-27-2009, 11:13 PM
Yep, all ya need is oxford cloth. Much nicer in all respects than all this flimsy new fangled stuff.

Nick D
04-27-2009, 11:52 PM
Personally I prefer an T-shirt under my dress shirts. Makes them look smoother, and even in warm weather to me they are cooler. Also, I've seen so many guys that have swear stains under their arms. ICK...

I've always been one of the no undershirt types, and since I usually wear a waistcoat it's never a problem. But it's getting too warm for three piece suits, and I think I may try an undershirt this year to avoid the sweat problem, and maybe even stay a little cooler (here's hoping).

chanteuseCarey
04-28-2009, 12:04 AM
as DH Chuck normally wears a v neck or crew neck short sleeve tshirt with his dress shirts. We work with a husband and wife team (Roberto and Jula Isola of City Vintage) for our family's vintage clothing. They both said that for 20s to 40s vintage clothing, the men back then wore the sleeveless tank style (commonly called a wife beater- yeah its a lousy name) t-shirt under their dress shirts.

Chad Sanborn
04-28-2009, 08:30 AM
I find this exact problem all the time. In my show, I wear a white shirt all the time. Under the hot lights, I sweat and it yellows the collar. So I don't get too many wears out of a white shirt before the yellowing won't come out.
(if anyone has tips on this I am all ears!)

So I buy a lot of white shirts. I am by no means rich so that means buying shirts cheap. And I end up with the problem of them being see through. I have found that the 'wife beater' shirts are less seen than short sleeve tee's. But they don't protect your underarms from sweat stains like the short sleeves do.

I found a somewhat happy medium. I found a shirt at The Mens Wearhouse made by Pronto Uomo (sp?) You can get a white shirt for about $25. If I get about 5 uses out of it, it comes to $5 a use. So I am happy with that.

Hope it helps.

Chad

Mike in Seattle
04-28-2009, 09:56 AM
Yep, all ya need is oxford cloth. Much nicer in all respects than all this flimsy new fangled stuff.

I was just commenting on Oxford cloth this weekend. I mentioned something about the original Oxford cloth, and a friend said "This IS Oxford cloth." "No, that's pinpoint Oxford, and that's a completely different fabric. True Oxford cloth is a little coarser weave, I believe a larger thread, and it makes a nicer shirt."

Dixie_Amazon
04-28-2009, 10:04 AM
It is a combination of sweat, body oils and skin cells. Try applying some shampoo or Fels Naptha Soap to the collar with a wet toothbrush. Also if you pre-treat the collar every time you wash it, it may help.

Mike in Seattle
04-28-2009, 10:08 AM
I find this exact problem all the time. In my show, I wear a white shirt all the time. Under the hot lights, I sweat and it yellows the collar. So I don't get too many wears out of a white shirt before the yellowing won't come out.
(if anyone has tips on this I am all ears!)

Try soaking in Oxyclean overnight - three or four scoops in the washer with only enough water to cover the shirts. Let it agitate for a minute or two and then soak.

Matt Deckard
07-03-2009, 05:08 AM
I've recently moved from Boxer briefs to trunks and find the legs ride up less than the boxer shorts since the legs are shorter.

I think I need to lose a bit more weight before I switch to boxers... I just don't like material bunching around while I'm walking or dancing.

Okay... now I'm back to Briefs... Skinnier legs means the legs of the shorts stay put.

Bugsy
07-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Okay... now I'm back to Briefs... Skinnier legs means the legs of the shorts stay put.

Congratulations on the weight loss. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap As one who lost almost 50 pounds about five years ago, I know how good you must feel. And what a great excuse to get new clothes. ;) Be well.

kpreed
07-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Christmas comes early, my friend! Look what I just spied in the the JCPenney Fall/Winter 2006 Catalog...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Johnnysan/Miscellaneous/yoke_front.jpg

Available in sizes 32-44 even ($16.00/pkg. of 3) (http://www4.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?CatNum=R504-6753&JSEnabled=true&mscssid=6df7bd33493584da199ce16812cf5af0cxMnVNoVza yoxMnVNoVzayW200B137BE86734C4D129E39D8FA5CE1BA26A0 624703&cmResetCat=true&hdnOnGo=true) AND sizes 46-54 even ($21.00/pkg. of 3) (http://www4.jcpenney.com/jcp/Products.aspx?CatNum=R504-6811&mscssid=&hdnOnGo=true&JSEnabled=true&cmResetCat=true) for us bigger guys! Order them now and maybe they will keep this item permenantly in stock!

Can it be...traditional men's fashion becoming mainstream once again?? Who'da thunk it?? ;)
I wear these every day and no problem, (sale long gone) I did replace the use less snaps on the front they come with,with buttons, but other then that I think they are great.

davestlouis
07-03-2009, 08:19 PM
My mom put me in undershirts from the time I was little, and I've never stopped wearing one every day. I wear white dress shirts at work, but take off my suit coat frequently, and EVERYONE there wears undershirts...the one fat, sweaty hairy guy who didn't got made fun of until he started wearing one.

I just had another thought too...bleach will tend to make white fabric take on a yellowish tinge over time...liquid bluing in the wash water keeps white fabric a "colder", bluer white color.

cco23i
07-03-2009, 09:22 PM
I found at Target an A style shirt made by Marona that's as close to the original you can get. The collar is clothe not ribbed and the fabric is sort of a knit. Man are they comfortable too!!!

Scott

Bugsy
07-03-2009, 10:07 PM
That Merona brand at Target is much better than I would have ever thought. AND one can't beat the prices.

Bill Taylor
07-04-2009, 06:29 PM
I don't think T shirts existed during the 1930s and before. I think perhaps they were an outcome of WWII, or maybe a little before. As a kid in the 30s, I know I never wore or saw a T shirt. Young boys under 5 or 6 wore short pants(ironed and starched) summer and winter, with ironed and starched short sleeve shirt in summer, long sleeve in winter, with an undershirt(wifebeater) under. After 6 or so, young boys wore knickers, undershirt, shirt and maybe a sweater. Getting those first knickers about 1939-1940 ("secretly buckled low") was a milestone, as were long pants later on (after age 12). I recall having a striped T shirt (but not an undershirt) about 1943 or 44, but by then I was 12 or 13 years old. That was the year I started to high school (8th grade). I know about the T shirt from a picture of me, my brothers and sisters from that time. Both my older brother, (who would have been about 16) and I are wearing one.

I'll have to google T shirts to see when they did come into being, if that kind of information will show up.

Any maybe I'll even explain "secretly buckled low", too. Hey, I had an older brother. :)

Bill Taylor

KILO NOVEMBER
07-04-2009, 06:54 PM
Mothers of River City!
Heed the warning before it's too late!
Watch for the tell-tale sign of corruption!
The moment your son leaves the house,
Does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee?

Bill Taylor
07-05-2009, 02:01 PM
Regarding my post above on T shirts, it looks like the US Navy specified a "type" of T Shirt style in 1913, but it was not a "consumer" product. T shirts did appear in the mid 1930s but suffered the same fate as other under shirts due to the 1934 Clark Gable "event". Then in the late 30s, about 38 or 39 T Shirts were offered by 3 retailers: Hanes, Fruit of the Loom and Sears, Roebuck & Co., but still didn't sell.

In 1942, the US Navy specified white T shirts as part of regulation gear, and the other services followed shortly. I think the army T shirts were olive drab, though. Does anyone know if that is correct?

The popularity of T shirts really came into being after the end of WWII with the return of 11 or 12 million servicemen who had been wearing T shirts during the war. Further popularity occurred about 1951 when Marlon Brando wore a T shirt (not a Y shirt), as I remember from "A Street Car Named Desire". "Stelllllllaa"! And then in 1955, James Dean in "Rebel Without A Cause" wore a white T shirt which again enhanced their popularity.

There were even some "printed" or "message" T shirts in earlier years. The Thomas Dewey Presidential compaign of 1948 used some political message T shirts.

Bill Taylor

Tomasso
07-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Where's Marc?!?!

Lou
07-05-2009, 09:16 PM
I wore undershirts as a boy because my father did, but stopped wearing them sometime in my teen years. I was reacquainted with them when I was in the Air Force and have worn them since. I wear crew-neck with a shirt and tie, v-neck with an open shirt, and a-shirt with a short-sleeve shirt.

I also had sock garters when I was in the Air Force (bunched up socks look terrible with a dress uniform). I thought they were uncomfortable, but maybe the ones I had weren't of the best quality. I'd prefer to have good socks that stay up.

Update: A note from an FL poster reminded me that the shirt garters weren't the kind that loop around the calf, but were a long elastic band that attached the sock to the shirt tail. Depending on how you move your leg, the elastic band presses a thick, unsightly line through the trouser. I'm sure the calf-loop kind would be a vast improvement.