The British Fairbairn and Sykes fighting knife

Harp · Nov 24, 2015

Blackjack said:
View attachment 39196
I think you're talking about a Boker Devils Brigade knife...

That is a Case modeled after the Sykes with a more pronounced skull knob and a thumbprint, but I referred to the Sykes knife I was issued,
a WWII blade with a grooved thumbprint notch added by a past recipient. Second World War Sykes, Cases, Randalls, and Marine K-bars were plentiful.

Edward · Nov 25, 2015

robrinay said:
Sheffield knives sell them for a mere £45 MOD spec. I'm quite taken by the wasp pattern commando knife listed on the same page - twice the price.
http://www.sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/5-91.html

A cousin of mine had one of these in his teens - probably still does. He used to read a lot of John Wiseman books at the time, and claimed to sleep with this knife under his pillow(!). When I was in the Scouts, you'd have been a legend for owning one of these.... At fourteen, I rather resented my parents for keeping me away from the big sheath knives in favour of folding blades within the 'legal for general carry' (UK) category, thoughl ooking back it was probably sensible....

The one in your link is a beauty, a real work of art. I'd own one if I had any real use for it, but I just don't have any call for somethingl ike that, and I've got enough knives now that I can't take anywhere with me unless "necesary for purpose". Beautiful piece of design, though. They always rmeind me of Christopher Lee, who of course was in the British special services during WW2, would have been issued with something like this and, based on passing comments he is known to have made*, he definitely used it!

*He never spoke about his war record more than to acknowledge that he'd been involved in that area, but Peter Jackson recalls this exchange from when they were filming the seocnd part of Lord of the Rings:

"When I was shooting the stabbing shot with Christopher, as a director would I was explaining to him what he should do"... "And he says, 'Peter, have you ever heard the sound a man makes when he’s stabbed in the back?' And I said, 'Um, no.' And he says 'Well, I have, and I know what to do.' "

a2jacketpatches · Nov 25, 2015

Edward said:
A cousin of mine had one of these in his teens - probably still does. He used to read a lot of John Wiseman books at the time, and claimed to sleep with this knife under his pillow(!). When I was in the Scouts, you'd have been a legend for owning one of these.... At fourteen, I rather resented my parents for keeping me away from the big sheath knives in favour of folding blades within the 'legal for general carry' (UK) category, thoughl ooking back it was probably sensible....

The one in your link is a beauty, a real work of art. I'd own one if I had any real use for it, but I just don't have any call for somethingl ike that, and I've got enough knives now that I can't take anywhere with me unless "necesary for purpose". Beautiful piece of design, though. They always rmeind me of Christopher Lee, who of course was in the British special services during WW2, would have been issued with something like this and, based on passing comments he is known to have made*, he definitely used it!

*He never spoke about his war record more than to acknowledge that he'd been involved in that area, but Peter Jackson recalls this exchange from when they were filming the seocnd part of Lord of the Rings:

"When I was shooting the stabbing shot with Christopher, as a director would I was explaining to him what he should do"... "And he says, 'Peter, have you ever heard the sound a man makes when he’s stabbed in the back?' And I said, 'Um, no.' And he says 'Well, I have, and I know what to do.' "

First one I ever bought nearly 20 years ago was sold to me as a fancy letter opener and actually perfect for that purpose. There's your call for that or necessary purpose

Or at least that's what I'd tel my Wife.

Harp · Nov 25, 2015

a2jacketpatches said:
First one I ever bought nearly 20 years ago was sold to me as a fancy letter opener and actually perfect for that purpose.

This trip down memory lane has sparked a note to procure a Sykes letter opener.

MikeKardec · Nov 25, 2015

a2jacketpatches said:
Late - Post war handle -

WW2 handle -

Very cool site with info and for sale items - www.wilkinsonfscollection.com

I'm not entirely sure this is correct. Here's what I know which is limited yet meaningful: My father had one with what you label the 'post war handle' it was locked in a trunk with a bunch of stuff left over from WWII and the key had been lost for years, since the 1950s almost certainly. He finally admitted he was never going to find the key and sometime in the mid 1970s we broke it open. I still have that knife. Could he have bought it post war? Certainly ... except he really had no money to buy unnecessary things, didn't value knives much and had no interest in memorabilia (fairly obvious as he let it and some other very cool stuff locked in a cheap trunk for 30 years!). If he'd have spent money on a knife it certainly would have been a "working knife" as opposed to a "killing knife," ie. a K-bar or something like it.

All that said, he did tell me that there were two SF made during the war and that the first series was distinctly better, I believe he was talking about the quality of the steel. He made no commentary about whether they looked different. Interestingly, he did correspond with Bill Fairbairn in the late 1950s ... that has no real relationship to this discussion, however, as they didn't talk knives.

So, while I have no ability to swear to it, there is some evidence that a 'post war handled' SF knife came home from France with my father in 1945. I didn't have my eye on it the whole time, I wasn't born yet, but I believe this was the case.

a2jacketpatches · Nov 25, 2015

MikeKardec said:
I'm not entirely sure this is correct. Here's what I know which is limited yet meaningful: My father had one with what you label the 'post war handle' it was locked in a trunk with a bunch of stuff left over from WWII and the key had been lost for years, since the 1950s almost certainly. He finally admitted he was never going to find the key and sometime in the mid 1970s we broke it open. I still have that knife. Could he have bought it post war? Certainly ... except he really had no money to buy unnecessary things, didn't value knives much and had no interest in memorabilia (fairly obvious as he let it and some other very cool stuff locked in a cheap trunk for 30 years!). If he'd have spent money on a knife it certainly would have been a "working knife" as opposed to a "killing knife," ie. a K-bar or something like it.

All that said, he did tell me that there were two SF made during the war and that the first series was distinctly better, I believe he was talking about the quality of the steel. He made no commentary about whether they looked different. Interestingly, he did correspond with Bill Fairbairn in the late 1950s ... that has no real relationship to this discussion, however, as they didn't talk knives.

So, while I have no ability to swear to it, there is some evidence that a 'post war handled' SF knife came home from France with my father in 1945. I didn't have my eye on it the whole time, I wasn't born yet, but I believe this was the case.

You'll notice I actually labeled as "Late - Post War" This one in particular marked with a "4" is a late WW2, or what is commonly but not only known as the third model I believe. Of course I'm in a rush to head out for the holiday presently and just going by memory so I cannot confirm

a2jacketpatches · Nov 25, 2015

Harp said:
This trip down memory lane has sparked a note to procure a Sykes letter opener.

I may have to do the same and set it next to my M3 Back Scratcher

here on my desk.

MikeKardec · Nov 26, 2015

a2jacketpatches said:
You'll notice I actually labeled as "Late - Post War" This one in particular marked with a "4" is a late WW2, or what is commonly but not only known as the third model I believe. Of course I'm in a rush to head out for the holiday presently and just going by memory so I cannot confirm

Ah HA! My Dad's has a 3, I checked earlier. It says 3 and then underneath "Made in England" or something of the sort.

Edward · Nov 26, 2015

a2jacketpatches said:
First one I ever bought nearly 20 years ago was sold to me as a fancy letter opener and actually perfect for that purpose. There's your call for that or necessary purpose Or at least that's what I'd tel my Wife.

Heh. A letter opener.....Yes, I can see it workin g as such at home. Can't imagine it would stand up if I was carry it on the street - "But officer, I might need to open some letters...." :lol:

Otter · Nov 26, 2015

Tactical letter opener.

a2jacketpatches · Nov 27, 2015

MikeKardec said:
Ah HA! My Dad's has a 3, I checked earlier. It says 3 and then underneath "Made in England" or something of the sort.

The Made in England was a required import mark I believe, Jimmy Carter?

Blackjack · Nov 28, 2015

Whats a letter? I haven't seen one of those in years....

MikeKardec · Nov 28, 2015

a2jacketpatches said:
The Made in England was a required import mark I believe, Jimmy Carter?

What's the "Jimmy Carter" part mean???

a2jacketpatches · Nov 28, 2015

Think he's the one that put a restriction on everything, guns as well. Not sure though. Someone made it mandatory that an import mark be on weapons otherwise these blades would not have it. Had an M1 Carbine that was Cuban marked and re-finished in blued steel after the parkarizing was removed.

MikeKardec · Nov 29, 2015

Could be, but not in the case of this knife ... I was aware of Dad having it before the Carter administration.

At a fairly educated guess, he picked it up in France near the end of WWII. He said he'd had the earlier, better, version which he picked up in England prior to the invasion. Then he lost it when he was suddenly shuttled over to France. He had a suitcase chase him around Europe for nearly a year, continually lost then found and forwarded by the army ... ultimately, it never got to him but like a stolen garden gnome he was sent notifications of where it was and when it was supposed to arrive. I believe that the #3 SF knife had belonged to the Captain of a QMTC outfit who took off for the states the moment he had enough points, abandoning everything he had. Dad was briefly the company commander of that unit and inherited everything the man left behind in his office. Before the suitcase finally arrived Dad did the same thing, he got his points and headed straight for Le Havre as fast as he could. As I said, it could have shown up post war but I REALLY don't think so.

A bit more research shows me that mine is a 3d pattern (though it seems the 3 on the handle is just a casting number for the handle pattern, not necessarily the whole knife), the 1st patterns were obviously better made and nicely styled then I guess wartime economies took over.

Blackjack · Nov 29, 2015

I found a guy on ebay making a reproduction of the first pattern Wilkinson. I ordered one because it's only 100.00 and the handle is solid brass and the blade is carbon steel, so how bad could it be. he also makes third pattern ones for like 65.00. Considering MacDonald s is three times this much we shall see what kind of knife it turns out to be. I've had a few knives made in India that have taken an absolute beating and never broke so...time will tell
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Fairbairn...330659?hash=item3f57c2e763:g:N9IAAOSwuWVWE8ZK

a2jacketpatches · Nov 29, 2015

Very possible the import mark theory is a story I picked up some time back and never let go or confirmed. Here's the marking on one that would have been a 2000- knife if in better shape.

MikeKardec · Nov 29, 2015

Blackjack said:
View attachment 39527 I found a guy on ebay making a reproduction of the first pattern Wilkinson. I ordered one because it's only 100.00 and the handle is solid brass and the blade is carbon steel, so how bad could it be.

I don't know if it's true in this case but many times reproductions are better (if you are looking for good not historic), and knives are often priced in a ridiculous manner. There's nothing that special about the SF, it's an ancient blade pattern. Good steel (it seems to me in my current state of ignorance that hard steel is probably best because it's not made to be used as a camp tool and therefore constantly resharpened, it's just a stabber), good blade geometry (so the point doesn't collapse but it's still thin) and nice balance (which is all in the design/weight if the hilt).

I suspect that the most important part of the whole thing was the training that Fairbairn created to go with it; how to quickly make an 18 year old a commando. As they say: most of the time it's not the tool it's the operator. Having the mindset to close with the enemy and do the dead without hesitation was probably the trickiest part.

The British Fairbairn and Sykes fighting knife

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Edward

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