New Eastman Leather Clothing "Escape" A-2

Stand By · Feb 5, 2016

The ELC jacket looks beautiful to me.
And metal Capt. rank was worn under the collar! I've never seen that. Interesting! A nice, subtle detail.
I think the price reflects the extra work involved and that finish sets it apart from all the others out there. I don't think I'd go with a V. Hiltz name tag - but I do love the finish! It'll be the jacket I most want to see the next time I'm at RAF Duxford!

bn1966 · Feb 5, 2016

Stand By said:
The ELC jacket looks beautiful to me.
And metal Capt. rank was worn under the collar! I've never seen that. Interesting! A nice, subtle detail.
I think the price reflects the extra work involved and that finish sets it apart from all the others out there. I don't think I'd go with a V. Hiltz name tag - but I do love the finish! It'll be the jacket I most want to see the next time I'm at RAF Duxford!

Love the finish too but wouldn't want the Hiltz tag either (not my cup of tea but I can understand why others would). Wonder if ELC would re-dye my Roughwear A-2? Should really ask.

nick123 · Feb 5, 2016

It's an iconic jacket and we're lucky to have different makers' takes on it.

kojax · Feb 5, 2016

well said nick

rocketeer · Feb 6, 2016

aswatland said:
The Hilts jacket is now up on the ELC site.
http://www.eastmanleather.com/type-reissue-escape-p-464.html

Thanks for posting this link , I probably would not have looked at it otherwise

Earlier in this thread I posted I would like one of these unbadged. What I should have added was that I would like one with the added re-dye but certainly not with the time worn look.
Looking at the photos on the Eastman pages it looks obviously faked, especially the photos around the shoulder decal and the collar. This is a problem with most added patina, it just does not work in my opinion(sorry Mr HPA). I have seen many attempts over the years to get this look right but it only becomes hard to distinguish from original as the jackets are worn regular over a long period, some burnishing shine to the leather and maybe flaking, hence my usual statement of "The only way to get a jacket to look 30 years old is to wear it for 30 years" Even my own attempt at re-dyeing a jacket has only started to get the look as I have had it and worn it in this state for a long time, and it still would not pass for original.
JTee

Cooper A-2 · Feb 6, 2016

Nice jacket, great search for authenticity towards the movie.
Looking forward to see the first group photo of all V. Hilts on the next air shows.

Capesofwrath · Feb 6, 2016

rocketeer said:
Thanks for posting this link , I probably would not have looked at it otherwise
Earlier in this thread I posted I would like one of these unbadged. What I should have added was that I would like one with the added re-dye but certainly not with the time worn look.
Looking at the photos on the Eastman pages it looks obviously faked, especially the photos around the shoulder decal and the collar. This is a problem with most added patina, it just does not work in my opinion(sorry Mr HPA). I have seen many attempts over the years to get this look right but it only becomes hard to distinguish from original as the jackets are worn regular over a long period, some burnishing shine to the leather and maybe flaking, hence my usual statement of "The only way to get a jacket to look 30 years old is to wear it for 30 years" Even my own attempt at re-dyeing a jacket has only started to get the look as I have had it and worn it in this state for a long time, and it still would not pass for original.
JTee

Always seemed daft to buy an expensive jacket and then pay extra to have it damaged.

Cooper A-2 · Feb 6, 2016

Eastman jackets and GW John's Jackets are the finest regarding research of authenticity.
This redying is a nice try, but the undyed are still more "genuine" IMHO, plus the extra- costs ( surely justifed in aspects of extra work, handling, marketing), are putting this jacket in an edge only a few will go for.
Looking forward to see these few " V. Hilts" on the next air show .

rocketeer · Feb 6, 2016

Cooper A-2 said:
Looking forward to see these few " V. Hilts" on the next air show .

They all meet up at the burger stand with the general Pattons and 3 or 4 complete crews of the 'Hell's Angels' B17. Then it's a Mexican stand off with handbags at dawn

Cooper A-2 · Feb 6, 2016

Love it!

aswatland · Feb 8, 2016

It is interesting to further compare the new ELC jacket with the one in the film. The photo below from the film shows that the shoulder decal reads "ARMY AIR CORPS" not "ARMY AIR FORCES" which it should read and all companies with the exception of Toys McCoys have it wrong. The most likely reason is because the film costume department got it wrong as
the Hap Arnold Wings emblem was only adopted in February 1942, i.e. after the Army Air Corps were renamed to/replaced by Army Air Forces in June 1941.

Regarding the hand finish I understand from BK that outside the tannery one can't successfully re-dye using pigment over aniline finish hides. It can be done but the new color simply won't hold. I have owned Wartime redyed A2s made from chrome tanned leather and the colour still rubs off on my shirt and trousers! Only time will tell if this happens with the Hilts A2. I really hope it doesn't.

kojax · Feb 8, 2016

Cooper A-2 · Feb 9, 2016

aswatland said:
It is interesting to further compare the new ELC jacket with the one in the film. The photo below from the film shows that the shoulder decal reads "ARMY AIR CORPS" not "ARMY AIR FORCES" which it should read and all companies with the exception of Toys McCoys have it wrong. The most likely reason is because the film costume department got it wrong as
the Hap Arnold Wings emblem was only adopted in February 1942, i.e. after the Army Air Corps were renamed to/replaced by Army Air Forces in June 1941.

Regarding the hand finish I understand from BK that outside the tannery one can't successfully re-dye using pigment over aniline finish hides. It can be done but the new color simply won't hold. I have owned Wartime redyed A2s made from chrome tanned leather and the colour still rubs off on my shirt and trousers! Only time will tell if this happens with the Hilts A2. I really hope it doesn't.

Well observed, well done!

Cooper A-2 · Feb 9, 2016

Needless to point out what the film costume company got all wrong on the Luftwaffe and other uniforms... Nevertheless good movie.

rocketeer · Feb 9, 2016

Cooper A-2 said:
Needless to point out what the film costume company got all wrong on the Luftwaffe and other uniforms... Nevertheless good movie.

At the time I doubt it would have mattered, they wanted the look and pretty well got it right for that period in film making history. Were there that many nit pickers then? Sometimes things are so obvious such as vehicles that were of a far later later vintage (The Triumph in 'Escape'), The RM London buses rather than the more historically accurate RT and Leyland Titan in many WWII movies etc that sometimes the story can carry the film so we don't really sit there thinking; "This would have been a great film except for those Messerschmidt 109s (The Hispano Aviación HA-1112-M1L Buchón)" As one may watching the 1969 film Battle of Britain.
Maybe there is something to CGI in historical films. Personally I would rather see the dodgy Spanish ME 109s, but thats just me remembering Pearl Harbour and it's Star Wars P40s

J

Stand By · Feb 9, 2016

Interesting comments … but for me, I still feel that I can't judge a jacket's finish properly from a 2-D image - not until I've seen it in person for a proper appraisal, as it's a tactile experience as much as a visual one.
And also, does that A2 model fit me well too in terms of cut?
And as these jackets are all individual pieces in their own right (to a degree), I'd want to assess the ones I can see for myself (the same as some "Time Worn" jackets I've seen at the ELC QM Depot at RAF Duxford are all very similar but slightly different in terms of grain and I find that one can inexplicably appeal more than another - like Rocketeer, I prefer to wear and age a jacket myself, but I do concede that, IMO, the Time Worn finishes have improved greatly over the years since they were first rolled out).
How permanent the finish will be is a great point that Aswatland raises. It would be something I'd certainly be asking Gary about and trying to assess from rubbing the leather for myself (so again, I'd reserve my judgement on that at this point) and make my own decision.
And so I'm looking forward to seeing the A2 at the ELC tent at RAF Duxford - alas, it will be next year and not this Summer as I'll be holding off and going for my 50th birthday next year. But some things are worth waiting for …!

kojax · Feb 9, 2016

John Lever · Feb 9, 2016

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-GREAT-E...647245?hash=item2109e0c90d:g:eQYAAOSwll1Wuilj

Dumpster Diver · Feb 9, 2016

BANZAIIIII!!!!!

rocketeer · Feb 10, 2016

John Lever said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-GREAT-E...647245?hash=item2109e0c90d:g:eQYAAOSwll1Wuilj

Dumpster Diver said:
BANZAIIIII!!!!!

I just had to post this as many may not bother with the link.
A quote from the description in the eBay link. Forget all the contract waffle, this is a gem.

"You are bidding on a beautiful USAAF ROUGH WEAR CLOTHING. A-2 jacket manufactured by EASTMAN LEATHER from Scotland, U.K. The jacket faithfully reproduces the Rough Wear contract number W535 AC-27752 of 1942 in all its details."
Gary will be happy

And Ken? FIGHT!

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