Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Today in History

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Doesn't sound very convincing to me I'm afraid! I'll look into their theories, but the idea that a commissary would be able to out lead an infantry and military engineering officer seems incredulous.

Neither Bromhead nor Chard were the sharpest knives in the drawer...even their contemporaries thought so. Bromhead was almost deaf. Dalton was a retired career sergeant-major, if memory serves me right...just the man for whipping up a quick defence. He certainly didn't get the Victoria Cross for handing out ammunition as portrayed in the film.
 
Last edited:

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Yesterday I was updating my Mac's operating system...what an absolute pain...so I missed this one. It's one of my favourites, though, so I'll post it as a 'yesterday in history'!

12 April 1961: Yuri Gagarin became the first human to venture into space.
 

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Now that the movie is 'old' interest seems to have waned in this event but, regardless:

1912 April 14th...around 11.40 pm, RMS Titanic collided with an iceberg.
 

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Rejected by the official Salon, a group of artists decided to have their own show in Paris. The group called themselves the 'Anonymous Association of Painters, Sculptors and Engravers' and their show opened April 15th, 1874. Taking his cue from the title of one of the works on display, one Parisian reviewer mockingly called them "Impressionists". It wasn't that long until the name started being used with respect rather than derision.
 

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Doesn't sound very convincing to me I'm afraid! I'll look into their theories, but the idea that a commissary would be able to out lead an infantry and military engineering officer seems incredulous.


I dug out some dusty volumes on the Zulu War that I haven’t looked at in years. You might want to have a look at Robert Edgerton’s Like Lions They Fought...a very good history of the war. He quotes a letter from General Sir Henry Ponsonby in which he calls Chard “a dull, heavy man who seemed scarcely even able to do his regular work” and that Bromhead was “brave but hopelessly stupid”. Ponsonby goes on the say that Colonel Evelyn Wood and Colonel Redvers Buller both believed that the defence was really organized by Dalton.
 

MisterCairo

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,005
Location
Gads Hill, Ontario
"Believed"?

I've read many books and papers on the views of senior officers on both Chard and Bromhead. General Wolseley (I parade at Wolseley Barracks, London, Ontario) had a negative view on Chard: a "more uninteresting or more stupid-looking fellow I never saw".

Key words "uninteresting" (so what?) and stupid LOOKING. Because, of course, one's appearance is the result of personal failure and neglect.

You will note from the histories as well, I hope, that the officers you and I have noted, along with MANY OTHERS, were "resentful" of the accolades accorded not only to Chard and Bromhead, but to the other leaders, including Dalton, and the men. Wolseley himself had to bite his tongue as he presented Chard with his VC. Wolseley felt (with some justification) that the defence was of course necessarily brutal, as they were essentially rats fighting for survival.

He forgot, of course, that all bravery is fighting for survival. If the VCs were not justified then, then when?

Given such well-known resentment, I take the opinions of those that Dalton was the true leader with a large grain of salt.

No one is suggesting either Chard or Bromhead were naturally brilliant leaders. They acted out of necessity, and all the histories I've read note that the two organized the defences with Dalton's input (everything I've come across, far from minimizing Dalton, note that he was very much involved in the planning - the film minimizes this).

That they were credible leaders, and brave (the VC is not awarded for cleverness) is beyond question.

That leaders at the flag/general level are oft resentful of the successes of their subordinates, I have no doubt.

Sean R.
Lieutenant-Commander
RCN
 

GHT

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,279
Location
New Forest
Key words "uninteresting" (so what?) and stupid LOOKING. Because, of course, one's appearance is the result of personal failure and neglect.
Looks didn't seem to hinder Wellington. It is typical of the British aristocracy though. Everything comes down to: Looks, background and breeding.
What amazed me when I first researched Rorke's Drift, was how close in historical terms it was. Frank Bourne, the Colour Sergeant, portrayed by Nigel Green in the movie, only passed away in May 1945, just ten months before I was born.
Bourne was just 24 at the time of the battle, Green was in his 40's when the film was made. I've always had an empathy with Bourne, strikes me as a latter day, real life Sharpe.
 

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
April 22nd, 1915...the Germans release chlorine gas during the Second Battle of Ypres, making a nasty brutal war even worse.
 
Last edited:

GHT

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,279
Location
New Forest
On this day 400 years ago, The Bard, William Shakespeare, died aged 52. Such a legacy he left the world, and not only plays and sonnets. He modernised the English language, creatively made up words and he packed theatres.

Many will say that Shakespeare, his plays that is, are as dull as ditch water. To that I would argue that without Romeo & Juliet there would have been no West Side Story. Without Hamlet, no Lion King. Without The Tempest, no Return to the Forbidden Planet and without The Taming of the Shrew, no Kiss me Kate, as well as many, many more.

So on this day, April 23rd, St. George's day, the patron saint of England, I shall raise a glass to John McCardle, the school teacher who took a motley lot of young schoolchildren, me included, to see Othello, and afterwards, when the rest of the audience had left, the cast came back on stage for an hour long question and answer session. It was magical, I have loved Shakespeare ever since.
 

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
Today is ANZAC day in Australia and New Zealand. It originally commemorated the landing at Gallipoli in 1915 but I believe it has become the national day of mourning for all their war dead. Out of respect, memorial events are being held in 8 major Canadian cities as well.
 
Last edited:

DNO

One Too Many
Messages
1,815
Location
Toronto, Canada
May 4th, 1910: the Naval Service of Canada was created. It became the Royal Canadian Navy in 1911.

And in 1970, an event I certainly remember well...Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on student protesters at Kent State University, killing 4 and wounding 9.
 

Bruce Wayne

My Mail is Forwarded Here
March 3rd, 1934. 83 years ago John Dillinger escaped from the inescapable Crown Point, Indiana jail using a wooden gun.

83 years ago today, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota John Dillinger Robbed a bank. Just like at many robberies, he took hostages to aid in his getaway. Among these hostages was my great aunt Mary Lucas. She sat on his lap on the ride out of town.
 

MisterCairo

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,005
Location
Gads Hill, Ontario
100 years ago today, the battle for Vimy Ridge began:

ww1-century-vimy-canada.jpg


vimy-ridge.jpeg


vimy-at-100-canadian-soldiers-cheer.jpg
 

Harp

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,508
Location
Chicago, IL US
On this day 400 years ago, The Bard, William Shakespeare, died aged 52. Such a legacy he left the world, and not only plays and sonnets. He modernised the English language, creatively made up words and he packed theatres.... It was magical, I have loved Shakespeare ever since.

Love looks not with the eyes but with the mind and therefore is winged Cupid painted blind.
-A Midsummer Night's Dream;)
 

Forum statistics

Threads
107,025
Messages
3,026,638
Members
52,528
Latest member
Zonko
Top