New to this - Looking for advice

You have been walking into the wrong shops in Italy, Mathematics. Plenty of them there (ugly, ill made clothes), as there are plenty of ugly, tacky fabric shops in England , terrible wines being served in French restaurants (was recently served a glass there) or ill dressed Gentlemen in Gentlemen's clothing fora.

That said, there is no big 'conspirscy theory', Italy remains the best place to get clothes made (just ask any reputable clothing company from anywhere in the world) and to see stylish people, whether they are to your (or my) tastes or not. You can go to any small village in Italy, and people of all ages will be usually stylish and dressed to a T (again, it may not be to our stilistic preference - this is the important bit). The same cannot be said for any other country in the world, bar none.

I have no argument with you on the superiority of well-made canvassed garments, the questions that I asked are these:

1. What is the likelihood that having internalised the 'canvassed is better' idea, that a fairly large number of people without the means to drop a lot of money on a bespoke suit will end up with a dud from an MTM company that advertised its wares as 'canvassed'?

I think the answer is quite likely, since there are more people who want the look that costs more than they can afford to spend.

2. Is a well-fused coat really any worse than the sort of coat suggested above ? Could it be a better investment?

Again, I think it is no worse. I've seen some woeful MTM jobs. Get the canvas wrong and the garment is a right-off. It's hit-and-miss, some are good, some are awful, but it's a gamble, especially where no fittings are done. Some have more means to gamble that others.

However, the OP of this thread seems to have enough cash to spend, so perhaps he should go and see a tailor and get some medium-weight linen suits.

Dirk Wainscotting said:

I have no argument with you on the superiority of well-made canvassed garments, the questions that I asked are these:

1. What is the likelihood that having internalised the 'canvassed is better' idea, that a fairly large number of people without the means to drop a lot of money on a bespoke suit will end up with a dud from an MTM company that advertised its wares as 'canvassed'?

I think the answer is quite likely, since there are more people who want the look that costs more than they can afford to spend.

2. Is a well-fused coat really any worse than the sort of coat suggested above ? Could it be a better investment?

Again, I think it is no worse. I've seen some woeful MTM jobs. Get the canvas wrong and the garment is a right-off. It's hit-and-miss, some are good, some are awful, but it's a gamble, especially where no fittings are done. Some have more means to gamble that others.

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Dirk,

What's your opinion on those RTW firms who declare their fully canvassed, not-hand-made coats to be equivalent in quality to the hand-made coats available from bespoke craftsmen? I'm thinking here about houses like Kiton, Oxxford, Brioni, etc. Their retail prices are on par with a bespoke suit - is the craftsmanship?

I assumed that Oxxford still cut and stitched their suits by hand? I have to say I don't know what Kiton and Brioni actually do. Kiton's website says they run a tailoring school, yet their clothes are made in a 'factory'.

The only example I've ever seen in person is an Oxxford suit and it looked well-made. I don't know about the inside structure. The lapels felt substantial though, and the collar was very good. To my mind if the prices are the same as bespoke (from a known house) then anyone who can afford Oxxford. Kiton, Brioni, can afford to see a personal tailor. Or if they are satisfied that Oxxford et al provides for their needs, that's fine too. So that tension resolves itself.

My issue is really with the online MTM and the people claiming to be able to produce 'full-canvassed' garments for unusually low prices.

Dirk Wainscotting said:

I assumed that Oxxford still cut and stitched their suits by hand?

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You are right - my descriptor wasn't specific enough: I think they do make their garments by hand, but in an assembly line fashion, as opposed to having a single crafstman make a complete garment. I'd guess that's how Kiton, Brioni and all the rest of the upper tier R2W makers do it.

You're right about the made-to-measure craze. Even the outfits that aren't scams have trouble producing garments that fit well. I experimented ONCE with a made to measure suit, that was measured by a haberdasher in person. The fit issues - egregious collar gap and other things, never did end up being remedied, despite the multiple fittings. Would have had to sell the suit, were it not for the fact that I have an alterations guy who works minor miracles.

I still think that buying overly expensive OTR is foolish, at least from a theoretical point of view. At prices like Kiton's or Oxxford's, you can have very good bespoke pieces.
However I realise that today: 1) there are few tailors that can offer a true, full bespoke service; 2) if you don't have familiarity with the matter, you get swallowed by the amount of details required; 3) people nowadays want everything and immediately.
So many people go for expensive OTR pieces, which will fit them decently, but surely won't have the personality of a bespoke, custom suit.
In my opinion, this is the death of a portion of our culture: we will eventually end all wearing the same suit style, because we have no idea (or no guts?) to find something different.

L.deJong said:

EXACTLY, I have one objection: thefedoralounge will always be different, and most of the loungers here have the guts to be different.
If only I could find a really good tailer in The Netherlands...

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That's assured: Fedora loungers will always stand out in the crowd!

If you can't spend for bespoke (I agree the best option), and aren't sussed enough or have no idea/guts to buy a RTW suit, then what are your options? No suits? I beg to differ (yet again). So much depends on the buyers knowledge (do your home work) and the sellers reputation, other than of course finding a product that you like no doubt.

L.deJong said:

For instance most suits today, I speak for West-Europe, are made of light cloth, but is really tightly woven.
That means that the cloth can't breathe properly...

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The yarns may be tightly woven, but the cloth not always so. These thin 'hard' cloths, if they are made of wool (and they usually are) breathe perfectly well. A thick cloth, even with a more open weave still tends to be warmer. Think of the warmth from a jumper (trui) even when the knit is quite large, like a cable-knit.