Doctor.... Who? Spoilers! Really, don't read if ur not up to date.

Prediction: when Clara leaves, as she intends to do at the end of this series, she goes off to travel with Missy. Whether this is done by force or by her own decision remains to be seen.

"Sonic sunglasses" are ridiculous. "Whoogle glasses."

Capaldi's leaving. Bring on the 13th Doctor. Personally, I think it's time for a female, American, pinko Doctor. Where do I submit my headshots?

After the terribleness of Sherlock I was concerned about this. Will be happy to see him move on to something better.

My vote:

Am I the only person that finds this season makes no sense and the episodes terrible? *sigh*

I get the sense that they're leading up to something -- other than death and regeneration -- but I'm not quite sure what, or how they're going to get there. But I do enjoy Nardole immensely -- this Doctor desperately needed someone capable of taking him down a peg or two.

I suspect these weird monk-things are going to eventually be revealed as the precursors of the original sock-faced Cybermen, who are supposed to reappear at the end of the season. Where they intend to go with that storyline is anybody's guess. And then there's the rumors that the First Doctor will somehow be involved -- understandable, since he was the only other Doctor to deal with that version of Cybermen.

Probably not: the first rule of science fiction fandom is that if a show runs long enough, the fanbase, however small, will split into factions that will fight to the virtual death over which chunk of it is best.

For my money, much as Davies had disappointed me here and there (I've still not forgiven him for that Rose = Badwolf business), and much as I had expected Moffat to save it all, Moffat damn near destroyed the brand completely with a combination of his glee at upsetting as much of the fanbase as he can, his desperate need to show us all how clever he thinks he is, and his rank misogyny. Herself lost all interest in the show owing to him. I persevered, hating it, but this latest series has been a joy, a real return to form. I can only assume that Chibnall is really in the driving seat and Moffat's involvement is largely in name only, because it has shed pretty much all the hallmarks of the latter's hack writing to become enjoyable again. I'm greatly relieved; after Moffat ruined Smith's tenure, it's wonderful to be able to see, even just for one series, an actor of the quality of Capaldi finally get something worth working with.

As for regeneration.... meh. One of the negatives of the way the show has been operated since its reboot is the way that they have fallen into a rut of X seasons per Doctor, Showrunner leaves when Doctor does, and all that. I know the modern press would conspire to ruin it with spoilers, but if only, just once, even, we could have a surprise regeneration three episodes in, or seven episodes in, or whatever.... Sadly, it seems the humdrum mechanics of season-based contracts for performers has boxed in the show's creativity. It was particularly dire at the nadir of Moffat's tenure when the Ponds were kept on far beyond when they had any real ideas of what to do with them, purely so that their exit could form the basis of a mid-season finale.

I'm open-minded about who should replace Capaldi, but I'll be disappointed if they choose a woman "because it's time". Tokenism doesn't sit well with me - bad enough that they had so many formulaic, Young Female Companion types - though Bill Potts is a breath of fresh air in many ways. Shame she's being cut at the end of this series, because the New Showrunner, New Doctor rule extends to Doctor's companions also.... I'd like this time to see a companion who isn't a present-day human. That's gotten old fast. I don't expect something non-human looking: that has practical implications (prothetics budgets and time) that I can see being trouble, also it rather restricts the stories you can do if you have to keep finding some way around them not being able to pass for human, BUT it would be nice to have a near-human (Matt Lucas' current character is a good step in that direction), or even a human from our past / future / far-future.

LizzieMaine said:

I get the sense that they're leading up to something -- other than death and regeneration -- but I'm not quite sure what, or how they're going to get there. But I do enjoy Nardole immensely -- this Doctor desperately needed someone capable of taking him down a peg or two.

I suspect these weird monk-things are going to eventually be revealed as the precursors of the original sock-faced Cybermen, who are supposed to reappear at the end of the season. Where they intend to go with that storyline is anybody's guess. And then there's the rumors that the First Doctor will somehow be involved -- understandable, since he was the only other Doctor to deal with that version of Cybermen.

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Indeed. I' looking forward to that..... fingers crossed for a lack of Daleks. I like Daleks, but they've been drastically overused since 2005.

I agree about Bill -- I'd like very much to see her carry over to the next Doctor. It's refreshing to have a companion who doesn't have some mysterious backstory that makes her THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE UNIVERSE. That kind of stuff made me yearn for the innocent days of the "gobby Australian" whose only motivation was wanting to get back to Heathrow.

Wow. I opened the door on this one. LOL!

I've been extremely bored on most episodes this season, unfortunately. Feel like the monk story is far too similar to the Silence who were also on the Earth since the dawn of forever or something.

Since I watch a lot of Marvel the Extremis episode is a direct rip-off from Iron Man 3 & the sets looked just like Doctor Strange. Ugh. And the Veritas book he was reading was an exact copy of the "Darkhold" from Agents of Shield. The giant pyramid really was a lot like the original movie of Stargate.

MOFFAT STOP STEALING STUFF!!

I'd read that Pearl might be leaving with Capaldi. That's unfortunate. I really want to like Bill more, but it's like the writers don't know what to do with her other than show us that she likes girls. We get that, move on. Being gay is a sexual orientation, not a character trait. No wonder both of them are leaving if this kind of material is all they're given. They're giving it their all, I'll say that. They are wonderful in the parts.

LizzieMaine said:

I agree about Bill -- I'd like very much to see her carry over to the next Doctor. It's refreshing to have a companion who doesn't have some mysterious backstory that makes her THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE UNIVERSE. That kind of stuff made me yearn for the innocent days of the "gobby Australian" whose only motivation was wanting to get back to Heathrow.

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Oh, wasn't that Teegan? With Peter Davison?

There's so much to love about Bill - the way she's not in love with the Doctor, but there's a genuine bond there (how refreshing to see love not being reduced to the level of romance for once!), the way her sexuality is broadly irrelevant (how refreshing to see a character who just happens to be gay, rather than one whose sexuality dictates their entire life), her intellectual curiosity (there's definitely a wry comment being made there, what with her not being a student, but having capabilities beyond those of the university-going classes which the Doctor's more meritocratic approach has spotted). I also enjoy that thus far she has not fallen into either of Moffat's female stereotypes: she is neither "Good But Stupid", nor "Genius But Evil". I do hope they preserve her not being the 42, though I do worry that they'll shift that. I'm assuming that at this point Missy's ultimate fate will be central to the finale, and Bill may well play a role in that as the Doctor's conscience (c/f Donna convincing him to save that family from Vesuvius). I do hope they don't kill her. Just once, I would love to see a character choose to walk away and live a normal life, rather than the Doctor drop them or they get killed (or, you know, not, as in Clara, a typical victim of Moffat's inability to commit to finality. I was so annoyed - I had spontaneously cheered when she "died"!!) or otherwise are forced to leave... At one point, when they did that bit about how the Ponds were visibly aging faster than they should because they'd be away for months at a time then pick up right at the moment they left again, I thought they were going for something like that, but it came to nothing and instead we got one of the most dreadfully written episodes of the Moffat era....

Mae said:

Wow. I opened the door on this one. LOL!

I've been extremely bored on most episodes this season, unfortunately. Feel like the monk story is far too similar to the Silence who were also on the Earth since the dawn of forever or something.

Since I watch a lot of Marvel the Extremis episode is a direct rip-off from Iron Man 3 & the sets looked just like Doctor Strange. Ugh. And the Veritas book he was reading was an exact copy of the "Darkhold" from Agents of Shield. The giant pyramid really was a lot like the original movie of Stargate.

MOFFAT STOP STEALING STUFF!!

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Oh, it's all much older than that..... a lot of this stuff was done way before the Marvel EU - and often by Doctor Who itself.


I do think Lizzy's right that these 'mummies' will become the Cybermen - that's what was in my head too.

I'd read that Pearl might be leaving with Capaldi. That's unfortunate. I really want to like Bill more, but it's like the writers don't know what to do with her other than show us that she likes girls. We get that, move on. Being gay is a sexual orientation, not a character trait. No wonder both of them are leaving if this kind of material is all they're given. They're giving it their all, I'll say that. They are wonderful in the parts.

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I find it interesting you see it that way, as I'd read it that her being gay was just a ting and isn't the main point to her character at all. Though having the Pope walk in on her and a date was genuinely hilarious, imo. What I feel we've seen far more of is her intellectual curiosity, which I do very much enjoy.


I don't think she was given the choice to leave: it was simply decided that Chibnall should be given a clean slate with which to work. Pity, for all the reasons above - and that it's clumsy from a continuity pov, imo.

Maybe they should make the Pope a companion. That might be an interesting twist.

I did like the idea of starting this series with no explanation of why the Doctor was working at a university, and had been doing so for decades. Imagine the opportunities he must have had for avoiding interaction with all his previous versions as the '60s, '70s, and '80s passed. "Doctor, there was a strange little Scottish fellow in a Panama hat looking for you, I told him you were out..." I keep hoping there's going to be some kind of payoff connected to the whole "vault" thing other than the obvious, and that it won't end up being another thread left to dangle, a la Orson Pink.

It's also kind of odd, with all the Earthbound stuff in the last three episodes that UNIT has made no appearance, especially with the whole "President of the World" business being revisited. I'm wondering if the whole season might not be some kind of alternate-universe/simulation and not just the episodes where the Monks were rampant.

Edward said:

I do think Lizzy's right that these 'mummies' will become the Cybermen - that's what was in my head too.

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Why the sock face Cybermen? LOL! This is the first I'm seeing of this, but I'm a dumb American, I suppose.

Edward said:

I find it interesting you see it that way, as I'd read it that her being gay was just a ting and isn't the main point to her character at all. Though having the Pope walk in on her and a date was genuinely hilarious, imo. What I feel we've seen far more of is her intellectual curiosity, which I do very much enjoy.

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Maybe it's just my irritation of the trend I'm seeing these days of gay characters on tv. The women tend to be in dramas and are over sexualized. The men are in comedies and are the butt of jokes. I find it higly disrespectful of the community and often wonder what they think, if they notice. They're usually written by men, and badly.

Edward said:

I don't think she was given the choice to leave: it was simply decided that Chibnall should be given a clean slate with which to work. Pity, for all the reasons above - and that it's clumsy from a continuity pov, imo.

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That may ending up backfiring on everyone involved behind the scenes from the fans pov.

LizzieMaine said:

Maybe they should make the Pope a companion. That might be an interesting twist.

That. And he'll regenerate into River Song.

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The way I've heard it, Capaldi himself specifically asked for the sock-face Cybermen to appear in his last series -- they were his favorite monsters as a kid watching the show, and he'd always fantasized about fighting them.

The serial where they first appeared, "The Tenth Planet," was the last call for the First Doctor, who died at the end and regenerated into Patrick Troughton. While the production values are crude by today's standards, it is still a very very creepy thing to watch -- the shabby effects and the dingy black and white photography make it seem even more ominous, and the fact that William Hartnell is so visibly sick that he's barely able to function as the Doctor gives the whole thing this air of impending death that's very disturbing.

If the sock-faces are handled by the upcoming episode as well as they were in their original appearance, it's going to be a very worthwhile show.

LizzieMaine said:

Maybe they should make the Pope a companion. That might be an interesting twist.

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Ha..... or the Docto could turn out to be the Pope.....!

I did like the idea of starting this series with no explanation of why the Doctor was working at a university, and had been doing so for decades. Imagine the opportunities he must have had for avoiding interaction with all his previous versions as the '60s, '70s, and '80s passed. "Doctor, there was a strange little Scottish fellow in a Panama hat looking for you, I told him you were out..." I keep hoping there's going to be some kind of payoff connected to the whole "vault" thing other than the obvious, and that it won't end up being another thread left to dangle, a la Orson Pink.

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Yes, that's gonig to be interesting. It seems most likely to be Missy in the Vault, but who knows. I just hope that they have the suss to go with something good rather than doing a "Rose is Badwolf" type ending in the mistaken notion that something noone could guess must be "a good one".

It's also kind of odd, with all the Earthbound stuff in the last three episodes that UNIT has made no appearance, especially with the whole "President of the World" business being revisited. I'm wondering if the whole season might not be some kind of alternate-universe/simulation and not just the episodes where the Monks were rampant.

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Possible too..... if it is that, I just hope Moffat didn't write it!

Mae said:

Why the sock face Cybermen? LOL! This is the first I'm seeing of this, but I'm a dumb American, I suppose.

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That was what they looked like when they first appeared; it would make sense if they're doing an origin story to have them look like that again.

Maybe it's just my irritation of the trend I'm seeing these days of gay characters on tv. The women tend to be in dramas and are over sexualized. The men are in comedies and are the butt of jokes. I find it higly disrespectful of the community and often wonder what they think, if they notice. They're usually written by men, and badly.

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I think they have it about right here. Who has always had a huge gay following in the UK (especially throughout all the off-air years, a good half or so of the hardcore fanbase were gay), so I'm sure we'd have heard of a backlash by now if there was an issue.

That may ending up backfiring on everyone involved behind the scenes from the fans pov.

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You never know. Of course, it's some time before they start filming, so....

Also realised I've heard nothing about Nardol carrying on or not, so maybe they'll use him for a handover character.

LizzieMaine said:

The way I've heard it, Capaldi himself specifically asked for the sock-face Cybermen to appear in his last series -- they were his favorite monsters as a kid watching the show, and he'd always fantasized about fighting them.

The serial where they first appeared, "The Tenth Planet," was the last call for the First Doctor, who died at the end and regenerated into Patrick Troughton. While the production values are crude by today's standards, it is still a very very creepy thing to watch -- the shabby effects and the dingy black and white photography make it seem even more ominous, and the fact that William Hartnell is so visibly sick that he's barely able to function as the Doctor gives the whole thing this air of impending death that's very disturbing.

If the sock-faces are handled by the upcoming episode as well as they were in their original appearance, it's going to be a very worthwhile show.

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Early Who that has survived, compared especially to some of the weaker Moffat era stuff is conclusive proof just how much more important a good styr, well told is over big budget effects.

I was a big fan of the re-boot and its potential. But it's never been perfect. Right from the start there was always a tendency to spend too much time on story details which weren't significant and then they'd have to wrap up everything in the last few minutes. Which always felt rushed and implausible.

I really like some Matt Smith eps and don't hate Moffat the way many do. But Capaldi's episodes have been really pox. I can't think of a single one I have enjoyed. Apart from the lazy writing it's almost as if Capaldi never really inhabited the role of the Doctor. It's consistently been Capaldi in a costume doing Capaldi. This season has been the big waste of BBC money and I can't wait for him to go. But will the show get any better?

Doctor Who needs to get more mysterious and spend less on trying to provide back stories and explanations for the characters. Mystery is always better than explanation. I hated what was done with the Master from Simm to Gomez. Bloody awful psychobabble about the Master and Doctor's childhoods. The contrived histories for these kinds of magical characters are always disappointing and inadequate. Give them a fully imagined world and they collapse under the weight of the banalities.

In the classic series where we are now equates to the time they switched to Davison. Look what happened there.

Well now, the season finale was interesting.

Yes. Not without its flaws - yet again Bill's "death" proves Moffat wholly incapable of committing to finality - but better than one could have dared hope for with Moffat in charge. Certainly lacked the self-indulgence which ruined most of Smith's run as well as the early Capaldi stuff. So nice to sed this series giving an actor of Capaldi's quality something to work with. Fingers crossed bloody Clara doesn't turn up in the Christmas special.

Well, that was a dreadful end to a very weak season. Hope the show can survive.