Brown Tea Core? Bill Kelso Liberty Horsehide Dodger at 10 months.

Lancaster · Mar 22, 2016

tmitchell59 said:
... I don't think the Wingman was a model when I got my Dodger or I just had not seen pictures. No, the Dodger was part of some special and the Wingman wasn't on the list...

The Wingman did indeed exist. The Dodger is a custom jacket I designed and some of the features were taken from the Wingman. It was an amalgamation of a few jackets they made and when asked what tag they’d sew into the collar (since none of the exiting tags would be valid) they came up with the Californian tag. The jacket isn’t based on any Californian jacket ever produced.

When they finished the jacket they posted pictures on Facebook and decided to call it the Dodger. Upon seeing it I noticed they made a couple mistakes, which are that they put the wrong collar on and forgot the leather hanging strip to be sewn into the inside collar. They made those changes to that actual jacket you see on Facebook and sent it to me. The collar I’d asked for is a G1 type collar with the zig zag back stitching above several rows of horizontal stitching curving down at the ends into the collar seam. They never updated those Facebook photos so now the Dodger is a jacket that was never intended to be and is sold that way (with the different collar and no hang bar) if one asks for a Dodger.

Grayland · Mar 22, 2016

The Wingman really has my attention. Beautiful jacket. I like the new BK website as well.

Monitor · Mar 22, 2016

SpeedRcrX said:
This is my Californian I got it in December 2014 and wear it every days in Spring and Autumn

And a photo inside

I missed this, but it's a terrific fit!!!

Sloan1874 · Mar 23, 2016

My Shinki Dust Bowl's only just beginning to show the 'tea core' that sits underneat it, but it's definitely there. It's rubbed through at all the points you'd expect: the zipper area, the cuff edges etc, but still has a lot of wear to go. Love Shinki, though, it's got a lot of class.

hondurasdave47 · Mar 23, 2016

Sloan1874 said:
My Shinki Dust Bowl's only just beginning to show the 'tea core' that sits underneat it, but it's definitely there. It's rubbed through at all the points you'd expect: the zipper area, the cuff edges etc, but still has a lot of wear to go. Love Shinki, though, it's got a lot of class.

Wait, I'm confused? Did Aero formerly have access to Shinki leather?

tmitchell59 · Mar 23, 2016

NewEnglandCliff said:
The Wingman did indeed exist. The Dodger is a custom jacket I designed and some of the features were taken from the Wingman. It was an amalgamation of a few jackets they made and when asked what tag they’d sew into the collar (since none of the exiting tags would be valid) they came up with the Californian tag. The jacket isn’t based on any Californian jacket ever produced.

When they finished the jacket they posted pictures on Facebook and decided to call it the Dodger. Upon seeing it I noticed they made a couple mistakes, which are that they put the wrong collar on and forgot the leather hanging strip to be sewn into the inside collar. They made those changes to that actual jacket you see on Facebook and sent it to me. The collar I’d asked for is a G1 type collar with the zig zag back stitching above several rows of horizontal stitching curving down at the ends into the collar seam. They never updated those Facebook photos so now the Dodger is a jacket that was never intended to be and is sold that way (with the different collar and no hang bar) if one asks for a Dodger.

Thanks for the design, I sure like it. Throw up a pic of your Dodger with the original collar. I don't recall seeing that on their FB page.

BK stuff just sits well with me or on me.
I just got another BK and looked hard at another

Their facebook page seems quiet. I notice on their site they don't have Victory HH available. It always was hit and miss with that. My new one is the Badalassi cow hide. Interesting leather I don't recall seeing on here.

Sloan1874 · Mar 23, 2016

hondurasdave47 said:
Wait, I'm confused? Did Aero formerly have access to Shinki leather?

It was a one-off made as a test pattern from a sample found in the storeroom, following Will's departure - apparently he had gathered a lot of individual hides

Grayland · Mar 23, 2016

Sloan1874 said:
It was a one-off made as a test pattern from a sample found in the storeroom, following Will's departure - apparently he had gathered a lot of individual hides

You sure it isn't Stinki?

ButteMT61 · Mar 23, 2016

The basement at Aero in 2011 had many interesting hides, including reindeer as showed to me by his son.
I wonder if at that time people's pets also went missing???

tmitchell59 · Mar 23, 2016

ButteMT61 said:
I wonder if at that time people's pets also went missing???

Stop it, you are being bad!

regius · Feb 18, 2017

tmitchell59 said:
I have never heard anyone mentioning the Brown core. I have a Liberty HH A2 that wears the same way. So I assume that any Liberty is going to look like this with a little time and wearing. Maybe folks don't wear them much and take longer to get the effect. I have some pics I did with my Eastman Californian which has some distressing, but very different. I will post some.

terry how would you describe the weight of the liberty HH? feels heavy? based on the wear around the elbow, it looks JUST like real vintage 50s brown jackets, like some of the ones you have.

regius · Feb 18, 2017

Liberty, Victory...anyone care to post some wear images of the Mark 31?

tmitchell59 · Feb 18, 2017

regius said:
terry how would you describe the weight of the liberty HH? feels heavy? based on the wear around the elbow, it looks JUST like real vintage 50s brown jackets, like some of the ones you have.

Yes, the Liberty looks and acts much like a vintage leather. The Liberty has the weight of vintage jackets too. In a pile it is easy to mistake the Liberty for a vintage leather. It is not a heavy leather. It does feel like horsehide.

The Victory is nothing like the Liberty. Not sure yet what to compare the Victory to. The Mark 31 is more like the Badalassi Cowhide..I would like to see a broke in Mark 31. The one I have has not been worn.

This Video is a bit dark on my screen, but does demonstrate the differences. Hope this helps.

handymike · Feb 18, 2017

Terry, there is a jacket in the classifieds with your name all over it!!!!!

tmitchell59 · Feb 18, 2017

handymike said:
Terry, there is a jacket in the classifieds with your name all over it!!!!!

Really? not sure which one. I just bought one ebay a minute ago.

regius · Feb 20, 2017

Terry, thank you for the video and the comment on the Liberty vs Victory vs badass cowhide. Bill Kelso's stamp and slogan suggests they build the strongest leather jacket, cannot be torn by two sailormen at the sleeves. This perceived strength in stitch lines does seem to be a real thing, and it's independent of the perceived strength of the leather. I remember I had a thin goatskin Willes Geiger A2, the goatskin was a coated type, slipper to the touch and feels dense, albeit thin. It was felt strong enough, but what struck me was the seams, the whole jacket are so tight together I felt I could do anything in it. This psychological feeling is not shared by other jackets, Schott, for one, has shown me a near popped underarm seam (top stitch) for a 3 years old perfecto steerhide, so it came as quite a shock! Aero A2 seems to be very tight, and one other company is Lost Worlds, it feels like the panels were grafted together, a seamless jacket. Another negative example was Eastman, the flap pocket corners ripped open. I once had three or four Bill Kelso but honestly don't remember, but right now, I'm looking for an A2 that's strongly "welded" together, do you think the BK is a strong jacket?

Superfluous · Feb 20, 2017

regius said:
but right now, I'm looking for an A2 that's strongly "welded" together

**cough** Good Wear ** cough**

tmitchell59 · Feb 20, 2017

regius said:
Terry, thank you for the video and the comment on the Liberty vs Victory vs badass cowhide. Bill Kelso's stamp and slogan suggests they build the strongest leather jacket, cannot be torn by two sailormen at the sleeves. This perceived strength in stitch lines does seem to be a real thing, and it's independent of the perceived strength of the leather. I remember I had a thin goatskin Willes Geiger A2, the goatskin was a coated type, slipper to the touch and feels dense, albeit thin. It was felt strong enough, but what struck me was the seams, the whole jacket are so tight together I felt I could do anything in it. This psychological feeling is not shared by other jackets, Schott, for one, has shown me a near popped underarm seam (top stitch) for a 3 years old perfecto steerhide, so it came as quite a shock! Aero A2 seems to be very tight, and one other company is Lost Worlds, it feels like the panels were grafted together, a seamless jacket. Another negative example was Eastman, the flap pocket corners ripped open. I once had three or four Bill Kelso but honestly don't remember, but right now, I'm looking for an A2 that's strongly "welded" together, do you think the BK is a strong jacket?

I forgot to mention that BK can no longer get Victory Horsehide. That was posted by BK. I was told by a customer they no longer offer Badalassi Cowhide.

I think the BK Liberty HH Monarch is a strong jacket. Their liberty just looks/feels more like an original 40s jacket. As much as I like the look and feel of the Victory I don't see it like a 40s leather.

The Dodger and the Monarch A-2 both blend right in with a pile of vintage brown HH jackets.

If anyone that reads this and has a Victory HH something in a size 42/44 let me know.

A-1 · Feb 20, 2017

regius said:
Terry, thank you for the video and the comment on the Liberty vs Victory vs badass cowhide. Bill Kelso's stamp and slogan suggests they build the strongest leather jacket, cannot be torn by two sailormen at the sleeves. This perceived strength in stitch lines does seem to be a real thing, and it's independent of the perceived strength of the leather. I remember I had a thin goatskin Willes Geiger A2, the goatskin was a coated type, slipper to the touch and feels dense, albeit thin. It was felt strong enough, but what struck me was the seams, the whole jacket are so tight together I felt I could do anything in it. This psychological feeling is not shared by other jackets, Schott, for one, has shown me a near popped underarm seam (top stitch) for a 3 years old perfecto steerhide, so it came as quite a shock! Aero A2 seems to be very tight, and one other company is Lost Worlds, it feels like the panels were grafted together, a seamless jacket. Another negative example was Eastman, the flap pocket corners ripped open. I once had three or four Bill Kelso but honestly don't remember, but right now, I'm looking for an A2 that's strongly "welded" together, do you think the BK is a strong jacket?

Hi Reg,
I know you haven’t asked me but I had a BK jacket once. It was beautiful, just not my colour. Concerning strength, I had two broken seams, the lining had holes and one zipper rider broke. All this in three months! I mean I was wearing this jacket, every day, but still, this is ridiculous.
In my opinion the BK jackets need to be pampered. Those seams would break in the moment you fold it wrongly.
I don’t have a lot of experience with different makers but the BK felt the weakest I’ve had. Even really cheap mall jackets were more rugged than my jacket. Maybe I was just unlucky.

Good Wear sounds like a really good idea! John seems to be making some of the best A-2 jackets around, plus he also seems to be a great guy!

Plus, dealing with BK was the worst. Andy is a really nice guy unless you criticize anything. When you have a problem with their jackets, he can be a total ****. I would never deal with them again.

Sloan1874 · Feb 20, 2017

A lot of fun filling in those four stars. I've got at least four already! Looking back at the early pics, the wear is very heavy for just a year. To me that's closer to 7+ full-on wear. It's fine if that's what you want, but I do wonder how much it curtails the life of a jacket by? There is a point, though I acknowledge it varies for everyone, where even if the integrity of the jacket itself is fine, the patina has gone too far for it be a comfortable wear ie, the top coat is completely stripped off in uneven patches.

Brown Tea Core? Bill Kelso Liberty Horsehide Dodger at 10 months.

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