Which word for sweater do you prefer?

tropicalbob · Jan 8, 2017

Funny the attitudes you hear: when I was in Helsinki a woman in a book store claimed that the only "proper" form of English was the one spoken by the British upper class. I reminded her of Twain's comment,"If you wake up an Englishman in the middle of the night he talks just like everybody else."

Bob Roberts · Jan 8, 2017

Sweater

Ticklishchap · Jan 8, 2017

tropicalbob said:
Funny the attitudes you hear: when I was in Helsinki a woman in a book store claimed that the only "proper" form of English was the one spoken by the British upper class. I reminded her of Twain's comment,"If you wake up an Englishman in the middle of the night he talks just like everybody else."

I am a great admirer of Mark Twain and this is a wonderfully pithy quotation that should be true. Unfortunately, it isn't.

The Finnish lady probably means that she appreciates clear English that she can easily understand. The 'anti-elitist' dogma of the BBC now means that many of the presenters and announcers speak in ways that I can barely understand, let alone a non-native speaker. Here I don't mean genuine regional or working class accents, or even dialects, but a form consciously ugly and indistinct Proletkult grunting.

BlueTrain · Jan 8, 2017

I was once embarrassed by having to ask an Englishman to repeat himself because I couldn't understand him (this was in England) but then, I've also had trouble understanding my mother-in-law, too, and she's from Lynchburg, Virginia. Typically announcers, radio DJs and the like have very clear enunciation and that is also noticeably true in at least Spanish, compared with the speech of callers, who might have "lazy" speech. I do agree, though, that people speaking proper English (and are actually English) do sound as though they are putting you on. My wife watches a lot of British TV and frankly, those are the only people I can usually understand. On most British TV shows, I don't know what they're saying. But my English isn't that good, either, but my excuse is, I'm not English.

Ticklishchap · Jan 8, 2017

Ticklishchap said:
As for 'Rugger' itself, it was probably a beneficial experience overall. However, because I was in a House team, I had to continue with it through my A Level year so that it interfered with revision. In the Easter term before A Levels, I had either 'Rugger' practice or an inter-house game every day of the week except for Wednesday when we had compulsory Corps: even on Sundays we quite often had a team pep-talk.
.

There is a connection between this digression and the sweater/jumper theme because "Rugger" practice helped lay the foundations for my long love affair with the military Woolly Pully [WP] (about which I started a thread that's still going strong). We wore WPs while sitting or standing around being lectured or bellowed at by our coach (who also wore one) and their warmth and comfort became very apparent.

The school jumper was always known as a jersey and was a ribbed navy blue V-neck with turn-back cuffs, not wholly unlike the WP.

I was brought up to use jumper or jersey but sometimes use sweater now because it's become a kind of 'loan word' from American English. Pullover I quite often use too.

Ticklishchap · Jan 8, 2017

BlueTrain said:
I was once embarrassed by having to ask an Englishman to repeat himself because I couldn't understand him (this was in England) On most British TV shows, I don't know what they're saying. But my English isn't that good, either, but my excuse is, I'm not English.

Your written English is top class.

BlueTrain · Jan 8, 2017

Not bad, could be better.

Ticklishchap · May 19, 2017

STEVIEBOY1 said:
Here in the UK I tend to use Pullover, Jersey, (Or Guernsey, if referring to an item of knitwear from that island where they originated from), or Sweater.

I have always thought that it is interesting how many different words there are for this type and styles of garment.

I think Sweater originated from the USA and Jumper had naval connections, then was used for ladies and childrens knitwear, but in recent years has come into general use alot in the UK and Australia. When I have visited New Zealand they were calling these garments Jerseys.

They word Jersey also has sporting connections, as previously mentioned, Football & Rugby Jerseys, also used in cycle racing speak, IE The Yellow Jersey worn by the winner in the Tour de France.

I have worked out there are at least 40 words used for knitwear garments and styles.

I am wearing a wool pullover/jersey as I am typing this infact, it's still quite chilly in the mornings and evening here even though today is the longest day of summer daylight hours in the UK.

When I was growing up they were jerseys or pullovers. Then the terms jumper and (under American influence) sweater became almost ubiquitous. I still use pullover a great deal, however, except with Americans who usually are more likely to understand sweater.
There are exceptions of course, such as Guernsey for a particular type of (very warm and comfortable) wool pullover, or woolly pully for the ribbed military wool pullover. A Rugger Jersey (as I was taught to call it and still do£ is not strictly relevant here as it is not (usually) a woollen garment.

The term Jersey is nice and has a good old-fashioned ring to it and so I'd be happy to revive it, except when it's a Guernsey of course!

Benzadmiral · May 19, 2017

BlueTrain said:
I was once embarrassed by having to ask an Englishman to repeat himself because I couldn't understand him (this was in England) but then, I've also had trouble understanding my mother-in-law, too, and she's from Lynchburg, Virginia. Typically announcers, radio DJs and the like have very clear enunciation and that is also noticeably true in at least Spanish, compared with the speech of callers, who might have "lazy" speech. I do agree, though, that people speaking proper English (and are actually English) do sound as though they are putting you on. My wife watches a lot of British TV and frankly, those are the only people I can usually understand. On most British TV shows, I don't know what they're saying. But my English isn't that good, either, but my excuse is, I'm not English.

I've encountered the same problem with some of the imported BBC productions or British films nowadays. What they used to call Received Pronunciation (that BBC standard) has apparently gone by the wayside.

On the other hand, I've read somewhere that the Yorkshire dialect, even at its best, is and has always been rough for Americans to get.

galopede · May 19, 2017

Benzadmiral said:
On the other hand, I've read somewhere that the Yorkshire dialect, even at its best, is and has always been rough for Americans to get.

'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eat all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
Allus do it fer thissen.

Ticklishchap · May 20, 2017

Benzadmiral said:
I've encountered the same problem with some of the imported BBC productions or British films nowadays. What they used to call Received Pronunciation (that BBC standard) has apparently gone by the wayside.

On the other hand, I've read somewhere that the Yorkshire dialect, even at its best, is and has always been rough for Americans to get.

Received Pronunciation? "Whatsatmane?" That's [Thames] Estuary English for 'What does that mean?' It's getting almost like 'Strine' in Aus: Aorta - they ought to; Emma Chizzit - how much is it?

As for the Yorkshire accent, we find it well nigh impossible to understand here in London. I have difficulty sometimes even though I know Yorkshire quite well. A lot of Yorkshire expressions and pronunciations are influenced by the Norse languages. This is even more true of the 'Geordie' dialect in the North-East of England - I have heard it said that Norwegians can makes themselves understood in Newcastle pubs when they speak their own language rather than English.

In London, meanwhile, most of the best English is spoken by recent immigrants.

Ticklishchap · May 20, 2017

galopede said:
'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eat all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
Allus do it fer thissen.

Timeless Yorkshire wisdom.

Benzadmiral · May 22, 2017

galopede said:
'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eat all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
Allus do it fer thissen.

I would probably have a hard time with this spoken, but I can read all but the last word:

Hear all, see all, say nothing;
Eat all, sup all, pay nothing;
And if ever you do anything for nothing --
Always do it for ????

("Always do it for itself," i.e., "for its own sake"?)

Ticklishchap · May 22, 2017

Benzadmiral said:
I would probably have a hard time with this spoken, but I can read all but the last word:

Hear all, see all, say nothing;
Eat all, sup all, pay nothing;
And if ever you do anything for nothing --
Always do it for ????

("Always do it for itself," i.e., "for its own sake"?)

Your self ('thy self').

Fading Fast · May 23, 2017

Doesn't the title of the thread prejudice the answer? Just having a little fun.

In the Northeast part of the US, growing up, I never heard another word for them other than "sweater." I've since become familiar with all the others mentioned here, but away from forums like this or when interacting with non-US friends, I hear sweater almost 100% of the time.

Ticklishchap · May 24, 2017

Fading Fast said:
Doesn't the title of the thread prejudice the answer? Just having a little fun.

In the Northeast part of the US, growing up, I never heard another word for them other than "sweater." I've since become familiar with all the others mentioned here, but away from forums like this or when interacting with non-US friends, I hear sweater almost 100% of the time.

I agree - it's very much the standard American word and I have never heard anything else in the US; for Americans 'a sweater is a sweater is a sweater'.

How about this one: turtleneck or roll neck?

Fading Fast · May 24, 2017

Ticklishchap said:
I agree - it's very much the standard American word and I have never heard anything else in the US; for Americans 'a sweater is a sweater is a sweater'.

How about this one: turtleneck or roll neck?

Turtleneck dominates and, in fact, I think of a roll neck as a variation or subcategory of a turtleneck where the neck part of the sweater is more causally finished and rolls down a bit and fits looser than a classic turtleneck. At least that's how J.Crew's "roll necks" work and that's where I see the term the most.

Ticklishchap · May 24, 2017

Roll neck is more frequent here in the UK but I prefer the US word Turtleneck. I like American English!

Ticklishchap · May 24, 2017

Fading Fast said:
Doesn't the title of the thread prejudice the answer? Just having a little fun

Typical New York humo(u)r

PeterGunnLives · May 24, 2017

Terminology on my small portion of the US west coast...

* A sweater is a knit yarn shirt. This word applies whether it has a button front opening (a "cardigan" or "cardigan sweater") or not.
* A jersey is specifically a sports uniform. And I can't think of any sports teams that wear what I would describe as a "sweater," so to me a jersey would never be equivalent to a sweater for that reason.
* A pullover is a garment that you pull over your head instead of opening in front with a zipper or buttons; when I hear the term "pullover" by itself, the thing I generally think of first is a sweatshirt of fleece-type material, often hooded.
* A jumper is a ladies' sleeveless dress thing.

BlueTrain said:
But I understand the British wear vests as an undergarment. Americans do not.

What Americans call generally call a "vest" is what in the UK is called a "waistcoat."

For undergarment shirts, American men have a couple options. There are sleeveless shirts (basically a plain "tank top," known more technically as an "A-shirt," or in more vulgar speech as a "wife-beater" for some unfathomable reason). And there are undershirts with short sleeves (a t-shirt). I suppose if the weather is cold, a long-sleeved "long john" shirt could be worn underneath a dress shirt.

Which word for sweater do you prefer?

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Call Me a Cab

One of the Regulars

One Too Many

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Call Me a Cab

One Too Many

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One Too Many

One Too Many

One of the Regulars

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