Guppy
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,285
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
The Raider... This was briefly on ebay, but I picked it up quickly. These do not come up often. I had to wait a while, as it shipped from Europe. Paid $500, plus shipping, which is probably close to what it cost when new, but then, this one is close enough to new. Seller said it was close to $800 new, but it's hard to compare prices in other countries, what with VAT and import duties and all. I bet it was closer to $500 in the domestic market.
The Windward, I've had for about a year now, also acquired through eBay, at a considerable discount. Eastman prices them at around $1300, I paid $775 for mine.
The front of the Raider jacket is basically the same as the Vanson Gambler model currently being sold through Thurston Bros., which is itself a copy of the ELMC Windward. Actually I don't know rightfully who copied whom. ELMC says that the style is a direct copy of a Montgomery Ward jacket from the 1940s. Vanson seem to have tried a few times with the style, not exactly sure when they started, or if it was before Eastman did their take on it. But I believe that the Raider was their first take on this style, followed up by the Arrow, which is essentially the same, or identical to, the Gambler. The latter two models are more or less identical in overall design to the ELMC Windward, but vary in the details. The back of the Raider is different from the Arrow/Gambler and Windward, lacking a half belt. Style wise, I have to go with the Windward style half-belt design, but it's just a matter of taste -- nothing wrong with either. A lot of Vanson MC jackets have a center seam down the back, and it's become something of a pet peeve of mine, but thankfully that's not the case here.
It's a size 40, and fits me very well. It seems Vanson sizes some of their styles pretty generously.
It's a keeper, I think, unless I happen to come across a Vanson Arrow/Gambler.
I had the Raider out on the bike this morning, felt very good. I believe it's made from competition weight leather, according to the detail I'm able to find about it online. Yet, it feels like a lighter weight than my Model F.
It has two inside pockets, left and right, to the Windward's zero. Score points for Vanson. The leather is definitely heavier than the ELMC, making this a better choice for riding. The Windward made from 2.5oz veg tanned, aniline dyed horsehide, and mine is in the color they call American Walnut. It's more luxurious, with a satiny quilted lining that feels great, and very warm for how thick it is.
Other differences are fairly minor, but make for very different jackets somehow. The Vanson has a throat latch at the collar, which the ELMC does not. But the collar on the Windward is slightly more prominent, larger, with more dramatic lapels. The Vanson has zippered wrist cuffs, again more in line with the motorcycle pedigree. Eastman opted for hidden knit storm cuffs. The flap pocket is closed by a zipper under the flap on the Windward, and by two snaps on the flap of the Vanson. The diagonal chest pocket is zippered on the Vanson, but open on the Eastman, which I find odd. I would have preferred a zipper there. The handwarmer pockets are likewise open on the ELMC, and zippered on the Vanson. Oddly, I note that the zippers on the handwarmers are brass, while silver on the chest pocket.
Fit-wise, the ELMC is very different. Mine's a 44, and yet feels tight at the chest and shoulders, and higher arms. The Vanson is roomier, and has shoulder gussets, which makes it noticeably easier to move around in. But the Eastman fits trim and snug, more like a jacket that was tailored to be form fitting, but I wonder if I shouldn't have gone with a 46 for a little more flexibility up top.
There's no clear winner here. I'd take the best features of both if I could. They're just so different, I have to have both.
Vanson pics first, to be followed by the ELMC in the first comment.
The Windward, I've had for about a year now, also acquired through eBay, at a considerable discount. Eastman prices them at around $1300, I paid $775 for mine.
The front of the Raider jacket is basically the same as the Vanson Gambler model currently being sold through Thurston Bros., which is itself a copy of the ELMC Windward. Actually I don't know rightfully who copied whom. ELMC says that the style is a direct copy of a Montgomery Ward jacket from the 1940s. Vanson seem to have tried a few times with the style, not exactly sure when they started, or if it was before Eastman did their take on it. But I believe that the Raider was their first take on this style, followed up by the Arrow, which is essentially the same, or identical to, the Gambler. The latter two models are more or less identical in overall design to the ELMC Windward, but vary in the details. The back of the Raider is different from the Arrow/Gambler and Windward, lacking a half belt. Style wise, I have to go with the Windward style half-belt design, but it's just a matter of taste -- nothing wrong with either. A lot of Vanson MC jackets have a center seam down the back, and it's become something of a pet peeve of mine, but thankfully that's not the case here.
It's a size 40, and fits me very well. It seems Vanson sizes some of their styles pretty generously.
It's a keeper, I think, unless I happen to come across a Vanson Arrow/Gambler.
I had the Raider out on the bike this morning, felt very good. I believe it's made from competition weight leather, according to the detail I'm able to find about it online. Yet, it feels like a lighter weight than my Model F.
It has two inside pockets, left and right, to the Windward's zero. Score points for Vanson. The leather is definitely heavier than the ELMC, making this a better choice for riding. The Windward made from 2.5oz veg tanned, aniline dyed horsehide, and mine is in the color they call American Walnut. It's more luxurious, with a satiny quilted lining that feels great, and very warm for how thick it is.
Other differences are fairly minor, but make for very different jackets somehow. The Vanson has a throat latch at the collar, which the ELMC does not. But the collar on the Windward is slightly more prominent, larger, with more dramatic lapels. The Vanson has zippered wrist cuffs, again more in line with the motorcycle pedigree. Eastman opted for hidden knit storm cuffs. The flap pocket is closed by a zipper under the flap on the Windward, and by two snaps on the flap of the Vanson. The diagonal chest pocket is zippered on the Vanson, but open on the Eastman, which I find odd. I would have preferred a zipper there. The handwarmer pockets are likewise open on the ELMC, and zippered on the Vanson. Oddly, I note that the zippers on the handwarmers are brass, while silver on the chest pocket.
Fit-wise, the ELMC is very different. Mine's a 44, and yet feels tight at the chest and shoulders, and higher arms. The Vanson is roomier, and has shoulder gussets, which makes it noticeably easier to move around in. But the Eastman fits trim and snug, more like a jacket that was tailored to be form fitting, but I wonder if I shouldn't have gone with a 46 for a little more flexibility up top.
There's no clear winner here. I'd take the best features of both if I could. They're just so different, I have to have both.
Vanson pics first, to be followed by the ELMC in the first comment.
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