Hatters beware! American hatter threatens to sue over matches behind the ribbon!

jlee562 · Nov 23, 2017

Feraud said:
This reminds me of that leech Gene Simmons trying to trademark the I Love You / Heavy Metal devil's horn hand sign.

Funnily enough, the WWE (yup, the wrestling company) is claiming a trademark on that hand gesture. I don't know how they actually registered it, because it's absurd to claim it originated with them. But they did, in fact, send out cease and desist letters to some non-WWE wrestlers using it.

Frunobulax · Nov 23, 2017

jlee562 said:
Funnily enough, the WWE (yup, the wrestling company) is claiming a trademark on that hand gesture. I don't know how they actually registered it, because it's absurd to claim it originated with them. But they did, in fact, send out cease and desist letters to some non-WWE wrestlers using it.

And of course the WWE (nee WWF) had to change their name because the World Wildlife Federation convinced a court that folks might confuse Andre the Giant with a Giant Panda.

KarlCrow · Nov 23, 2017

Frunobulax said:
And of course the WWE (nee WWF) had to change their name because the World Wildlife Federation convinced a court that folks might confuse Andre the Giant with a Giant Panda.

When André was a child, the Nobel prize winning irish playwright Samuel Beckett chauffeured (a favour for his parents) the large child to and from school in the back of his truck. I've never got my head all the way around that one.

Edward · Nov 23, 2017

KarlCrow said:
liberal and libertarian mean very different things politically in Europe and the US. I'm not suggesting people don't confuse them, they do, and it irritates me as they are very different concepts. Raising property to the status of an inalienable right puts a value on everything and is not liberal but is the essence of libertarianism.

It's almost a whole different language. European political analysis tends also to view the authoritarian/libertarian axis very differently than in the US (where, popularly, it seems to be mapped diredctly onto the left/right axis). Certianly always amused me when people assume that we're very alike on both sides of the Atlantic because of English - as George Bernard Shaw once said, "The Americans and the English are two peoples separated by a common language."

KarlCrow · Nov 23, 2017

Edward said:
It's almost a whole different language. European political analysis tends also to view the authoritarian/libertarian axis very differently than in the US (where, popularly, it seems to be mapped diredctly onto the left/right axis). Certianly always amused me when people assume that we're very alike on both sides of the Atlantic because of English - as George Bernard Shaw once said, "The Americans and the English are two peoples separated by a common language."

You get left and right libertarians on both sides of the Atlantic. Trust me, I'm a European political theorist.

blueAZNmonkey · Nov 23, 2017

I don't know that it's necessarily a nasty move, to TM it - and once a mark is registered, if you don't protect it, you lose it. Google, for instance, have at various times tried to protect and limit the use of the term "googling" in case it becomes such a synonym for "running an internet search" than they would lose protection of the mark by TM dilution. IT'll very much be a TM issue here, though, rather than a question of artistic copyright.

Edward said:
To be fair, if somebody doesn't protect their mark, they can lose it. It is, of course, not unknown for companies to try to abuse their TM. Gibson Guitars were widely accused of trying to do this when they sued PRS over the 'Singlecut' model a few years ago, though the Court of Appeal rightly threw out the notion that anyone who took a moment to consider the two products would be in any way confused between them. (The whole episode hit Gibson with bad PR for a few months as they were considered, fairly or otherwise, to have launched the lawsuit against a competitor they saw as a threat, rather than any one of the many, many companies making guitars which actually looked far more similar to their Les Paul model, and deliberately so.)

I understand this but I believe the issue most of us have is that he was able to get the matchstick legally recognized as his signature mark in the first place. That this practice is incontrovertibly and uniquely linked to a thirty-something living in Venice, CA smacks of lackadaisical oversight and a failure of due diligence. As you say: "anyone who took a moment to consider". I think this is what is truly damnable about the whole thing -- it does not seem that adequate consideration was given.

The internet angle does raise an interesting question: if the Danish business has an online presence advertising hats which violate a US RTM for sale and that online presence is (as would typically be the case) available in the USA, then there can be a case for violation in the US market in which it is registered. The issue then becomes one of enforceability: a US court certainly can order the take-down of an online article which is available there, but if the offending party is based somewhere that will not agree to enforce a US judgment, then there's little as can be done, unless said offending party has assests in the US or a place more favourable to the US, or, in extreme cases, sets foot in either.

I believe the issue here is that Fouquet managed to get the trademark recognized in Europe and Australia in addition to the USA -- which is what the Danish maker says in their Instagram post.

Pinč · Nov 23, 2017

blueAZNmonkey said:
I understand this but I believe the issue most of us have is that he was able to get the matchstick legally recognized as his signature mark in the first place.

Exactly. And this should be challenged. In my opinion, the patent and trademark authority was fooled and the patent is invalid. However, not until the court says so – and I strongly believe it would say so. Let us see whether Hornskov steps back or will let Fouquet sue him. In the latter case, I think Hornskov would win, because the patent is obviously "contrary to good morals" (or something like that) and it would be revoked.

blueAZNmonkey · Nov 23, 2017

Pinč said:
Exactly. And this should be challenged. In my opinion, the patent and trademark authority was fooled and the patent is invalid. However, not until the court says so – and I strongly believe it would say so. Let us see whether Hornskov steps back or will let Fouquet sue him. In the latter case, I think Hornskov would win, because the patent is obviously "contrary to good morals" (or something like that) and it would be revoked.

It all depends on money, unfortunately, if this would ever go to court. In my judgment, Fouquet is just trying to push people around with his Hollywood money.

Cane Rod Maker · Nov 23, 2017

I've heard, of people getting cease and desist, letters, on using the match, here in the US.
I don't know how to ship or declare flammable contents on a shipment, or what's permissible.

Can you give a "free emergency stick match", for survival?

Can you sell 5 for penny, with the hat?

Can you use an Ohio Bluetip?

It's something and almost sad, when a product evolves around a sulphur preperation, stacked upon the tip of pine wood.

scottyrocks · Nov 23, 2017

blueAZNmonkey said:
It all depends on money, unfortunately, if this would ever go to court. In my judgment, Fouquet is just trying to push people around with his Hollywood money.

Let's not forget 'self-importance.' Hollywood is nothing without 'self-importance.'

Cane Rod Maker · Nov 23, 2017

Lean'n'mean said:
On the bright side, Holmskov unknown till now, has received some free publicity.

I follow him on Instagram, he is unknown, to those here, who don't use Instagram a great way, to see and enjoy the many artisans hatters, match makers; and other wood working masters, musicians, guitarists, autorestoration guys, old rods, motorcycles, jewelry design, pin makers, feather plume creators, the artistic list goes on. I found a whole NEW WORLD, using instagram, it's where I saw this perticular, hat maker, and shortly after I heard about A US, maker getting a letter. I asked myself, how long till, he gets a letter. It was within a year.

LuvMyMan · Nov 24, 2017

Frunobulax said:
Sent directly from my mind to yours.

OMG TOO CUTE! LOL! hahaha oh oh oh!

Jhoff_1979 · Nov 24, 2017

Frunobulax said:
Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Ha! Classic man!!

Lean'n'mean · Nov 24, 2017

KarlCrow said:
I'm a European political theorist.

So theoretically, you're a theoretician......or have I got my theories mixed up ?

Lean'n'mean · Nov 24, 2017

Cane Rod Maker said:
I follow him on Instagram,

You have the advantage there. I don't follow anyone.

Cane Rod Maker · Nov 24, 2017

Lean'n'mean said:
You have the advantage there. I don't follow anyone.

Let me change my word from FOLLOW to APPRECIATE. Then your not a follower.
Being appreciative, is a good thing.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Bamaboots · Nov 24, 2017

So much has been written here about the TM crap and I understand where both sides are coming from on Fouquet. It's all personal. Personal beliefs, feelings, taste, choice and the interpretation of the laws by some as they relate to TM's. My response to Ole was a personal one, at first not so much about the TM but about me not liking Fouquet's hats. I'm a fan of the classics. I don't care for his style or for how he is branding himself. My response to Ole was about recognizing one of Fouqet's hats worn by a wannabe celebrity on a made for TV music competition and the conversation it generated in the house when I commented on it.

Fouquet has a bit of history on this site and if you care to look, it's easily found. I've read most of it but neither he nor his work interested me much. In my little world of hat wearing and experience, his work was cartoonish. Think "The mask." Some of that history involves other custom hatters that have a presence here. Fouquet had visit with at least one of those hatters who described it as a pleasant experience. Fouquet, by account, forcibly took over the business of his mentor and partner. That gentleman, known by same hatter responded to this site about those issues he was having with Fouquet. I believe that gentleman died before he could get any resolution.

A polarizing hat maker. Is he a hat make? Go figure. He's gotten more time here than he got on TV the other night. Though I doubt many sales will come from this.

Bob Roberts · Nov 24, 2017

Custom or costume? Or are they custom costume hats? Or both...?

Bob Roberts · Nov 24, 2017

There ya go. $500 for the hat. $515 for the matchstick.

moontheloon · Nov 24, 2017

jlee562 said:
Funnily enough, the WWE (yup, the wrestling company) is claiming a trademark on that hand gesture. I don't know how they actually registered it, because it's absurd to claim it originated with them. But they did, in fact, send out cease and desist letters to some non-WWE wrestlers using it.

Feraud said:
This reminds me of that leech Gene Simmons trying to trademark the I Love You / Heavy Metal devil's horn hand sign.

two different gestures

Love has the thumb out and is a part of sign language known as "ILY".. the symbol puts those three letters together and means "I Love You"

and what's known as the "metal" sign or "devil horns" now has the thumb in and is the Italian Malocchio or "maloik" which is an old curse/tradition/evil eye that Ronnie James Dio brought to the music industry back when he was in Rainbow ... he would put up the old gesture he learned from his grand mother and people adopted it as "metal"

either way ... to try to trade mark anything like that is just as ridiculous

Hatters beware! American hatter threatens to sue over matches behind the ribbon!

I'll Lock Up

One Too Many

One Too Many

One Too Many

New in Town

One Too Many

Vendor

I'll Lock Up

Vendor

I’ll Lock Up.

One of the Regulars

I'll Lock Up

I'll Lock Up

Vendor

I'll Lock Up

I'll Lock Up

I'll Lock Up

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