Footwear to go with our jackets

Edward said:

's a shame it has that link for so many people now. I'd love a nice MA1 myself, though the Boss worries about the idea of me wearing one in green because I shave my head. I was once taken for being a skinhead by an actual skinhead in a pub in town - I was wearing boots, jeans, and a sky-blue Harrington jacket. Wasn't a problem then, but I can see how it could be (especially if the wrong sort spotted the 'smash Nazis' badge). Such a shame, because it was, in my opinion ,that last truly strong, British street youth cult look; nothing else since has come close to that early 80s look. Apart from the goths, but that was never quite so accessible to the masses.

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well, since I grew bald I also shave my head, I miss my hair but I've got to admit it is more practical and easy, no split ends anymore!
I still wear my sage MA-1 combined with boots and Perry's but to be honest I differentiate myself from the associated extremes by having a beard. As to the main topic: the past months I've worn exclusively my Chippewa Engineers, 3 pair of custom William Lennon work boots, my jarrow marchers and my carlos santos chelseas. None of them is what I'd call comfortable, especially with a herniated disk. However I'm wearing them for one and only reason, because I like how they look like (and I look in them). When my back hurts a lot or have to walk then I find nothing better than my Nike Air max - completely black so I actually wear them at work. Every now and then I wear my old hi-all stars or my converse weapons with (tight) denim, I guess a nostalgia for my thrash days.

I had a huge hangup forever on getting an MA-1 style jacket due to the ties with the assorted groups we have discussed here.
I got the CWP-45 Spiewak and I've gotten more compliments (odd as it's way short on me) than almost any jacket I own.
That said, if I shaved my head or liked Doc Marten's, I'd probably not wear it with those. It's such a fine line, and people today are dying to label people.

ButteMT61 said:

I had a huge hangup forever on getting an MA-1 style jacket due to the ties with the assorted groups we have discussed here.
I got the CWP-45 Spiewak and I've gotten more compliments (odd as it's way short on me) than almost any jacket I own.
That said, if I shaved my head or liked Doc Marten's, I'd probably not wear it with those. It's such a fine line, and people today are dying to label people.

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Agreed, though the latest fashion trend with the cheap knock-off's of MA-1's might actually help disassociate this style from them...
by the way, last week I visited a Zara store. It seems the latest trend is fake (non leather) oversized copies of B-6's, D-1's and B-3's.

Harris HTM said:

Agreed, though the latest fashion trend with the cheap knock-off's of MA-1's might actually help disassociate this style from them...
by the way, last week I visited a Zara store. It seems the latest trend is fake (non leather) oversized copies of B-6's, D-1's and B-3's.

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I've seen some. As a completely separate product, I did see some that I thought were cool - albeit for young guys. I like seeing Mil inspired clothes, even if they are by "our" standards, meh. They at least seem to allow younger folks to appreciate our stuff based on the comments I get on gear from youngin's.

Big J said:

@dude, no, you're not over-reacting, it's a good post. You're right, so much clothing has been repurposed.
I think the thing is that you're self-aware about it. I am too. When I have to go to a meeting, and it's raining, so I wear a trench coat and a fedora because I hate umbrellas, yeah, I hear other people make negative comments sometimes. I'm aware of how this looks to others who don't understand the history and cultural baggage of my clothes.
It's ok and it goes with the territory. Those who know, know.
What I'm trying to get at is if there's the kind of inverse relationship between utilitarianism and symbolic value that Hobspawm & Ranger talk about when they describe the anachronism of U.K. High Court judges wigs, of the only way to identify a Guards umbrella is when it's carried rolled up (i.e. useless).
I wonder if these boots (for example) only have appeal as symbols of what they represent rather than because of their utilitarian properties, and if owners themselves are aware of this paradox.

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I am definitely self aware about it as I believe most of us on this forum are as well which is certainly the important thing. Personally, I have no problem with most clothing being repurposed. Quite a large number of useful items are used in ways that they were not originally intended for. Your point about umbrellas made me laugh! I too despise umbrellas and if I lived in an area that actually received rain, I would do the same as you!

Superfluous said:

This was my point (although you stated it much more cogently). In my entirely subjective opinion, engineer boots look like part of a costume. Have you ever seen an “old west” family photo, where all of the family members dress up like they are from the old west, and the photo is shot against an old west backdrop, in a vintage style – that’s kinda what engineer boots evoke for me.



The difference is that sneakers, jeans and baseball caps have become ubiquitous and mainstream, and thereby transcended their original purpose. Today, everyone wears sneakers, jeans and baseball caps. Thus, the genesis of these clothing items has become irrelevant, and very few people associate these items with their origins.



Dude, you have style! Don’t ever compromise your style for the masses. Instead, continue your bold and unique style without regard for what uninformed sheep might thing. You understand it – they don’t.


So true. Ironically, artisan repro workwear is not accessible to many who genuinely need workwear. The men and women who wore the original articles – that inspired the reproductions – would no doubt have a good laugh if they saw how their utilitarian clothing had evolved. I suspect they would view the majority of us as imposters.

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I see your point about old west photos. The difference is that I actually love old west clothing. I grew up adoring Western films and it is still my favorite film genre overall. They were actually a substantial influence on me getting into this clothing that I am into now. Basically, I may be a little more prone to enjoying clothing that can be considered costume more than most people, but I don't mind.

You are right about sneakers, jeans, and caps. I know it is not a one to one comparison, but they are still technically repurposed. As someone said above, the bikers that wore engineer boots repurposed them just as much as people who wear them only for style.

ButteMT61 said:

There's lots of work wear that is affordable still - just not posted up on instagram or forums - Dickies, Carhartt, etc.
"Work wear" is a fashion niche - and often expensive one.
I love it, but having family from the most blue of blue collars roots, I sometimes feel really conflicted spending the money I do for certain items.

It's all poseur to some extent, isn't it? We're all donning some sort of costume as our fashion statement. The nice thing is that there are many choices out there, and we can and should all appreciate what each here offer up. I can appreciate something without liking it. Sometimes I don't like things for odd reasons like cost, the guys wearing it, the non-existent sizing for big guys, etc.

It's fun here because there's something for everyone.

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You just made the point that I was trying to make much more coherently. Everything is poseur to some extent which I think is overall a good thing. Because we all take influence from and repurpose so many different types of clothing, it allows people to have more individualistic tastes in clothing now. Sure, we tend to group up into certain niches of clothing, but there are a lot more niches now than there used to be when general populations all wore very similar, if not essentially the same clothing. In the past, the main way that people differentiated themselves by clothing was simply with color. In the Ottoman Empire, certain groups of people were only allowed to wear certain colors of clothing. Of course, this is an extreme example, but I am happy to live in a world in which we can all be poseurs rather than having to wear a certain garment every day. Even into the 20th century, people in the same socioeconomic group wore similar clothes to each other. I am sure I am not the only one here who would rather be called a poseur because we are wearing what we like rather than being stuck wearing the same thing as everyone else.

@dudewhattheheck, poseurs? Speak for yourself, I'm keeping it 'real'!

@Edward, one the one hand, you should get a bike, bikes are cool. I wish I had a Triumph Bonneville. On the other hand, don't get a bike unless you carry a donor card. Gee, y'know I wish there were no other road users in the world, ever!

Love the thread!

Kinda hard for me to tie in all the quotes and/or photos into one post. Forgive me if I go on to long.

This form of communication reminds me of a combination of stream of conscientiousness, and magical realism (i.e., somewhere between Hunter S. Thompson, and which José Arcadio are we talking about?). I think that some talented editor could put together a pretty good book. Some of you folks are skilled writers!

I received yesterday, and wore to work today my new Horween Thorogood 1892 Natural Chromexcel Boots. Bought at a Massdrop "no brainer price" from a great tip from a TFL veteran.



Along with my un-broken Aero Hercules CXL steerhide brown shearling lined/alpaca jacket, bought unworn from another TFL source. It was 41 F. here in sunny CA. this morning. Brrrrr.


I felt like the tin man. If someone had tipped me over, I could not have gotten up.
I need to source some horween pants to round out the theme.

Of course, I took the jacket off as soon as possible. Not only because the temp. went up to 64 F. outside quickly, but I have mostly worked my whole life indoors in the service industry, in restaurant kitchens. Yet, I wore the 1892s in the kitchen today. Got lots of comments, not all good. The official Chef's uniform is supposed to be black shoes. One of my Jamaican students called them "rude boy shoes". I think that was meant as a compliment, but I'm not sure.

In doing my due diligence research on Thourogoods, I ran across Roofer Boots for the first time.



One summer in my teens, I worked as a hot tar roofer, just trying to get out of the kitchens for a spell. Again, I was amused to see the "Roofer Boots", marketed as high end shoes. The roofing crew that I worked on all bought the cheapest heaviest boots we could find, often from goodwill. Don't remember what they were, but they were probably used army surplus boots. We didn't know about patina, because they were immediately covered with black tar. We used to wash tar off our hands and arms, despite the burns, at the gas pump at the end of our shift. Yikes! At the time the roofers were considered to be the lowest and toughest dregs of the construction industry. We probably were.

I bought a pair or two of Redwings back in the 70s, when I was working 16 hours a day at two jobs as a line cook, yes in the low paid service industry, and yes doing manual labor, even though I was working in some of the most famous restaurants of the time. They were a bit more expensive than Sears work boots, but not that much more. I eventually moved on to other brands that were lighter and more comfortable, along with having non-slip, and oil resistant soles, even though they did hold up very long.

Since my introduction to this forum, I was amazed to see the Redwing shoes, only available in Japan, for what no line cook could ever afford. And "roofer boots" marketed as high end niche fashion, not to mention price.

Ah, but now I make a bit more money than a line cook, or hot tar roofer, but am still deeply rooted in an industry that is still rough dirty manual labor, despite what you see on the cooking shows, and the glamor associated with being a Chef in fine dining restaurants.

Talk about being a poser, I am one. But I paid my dues, to be one. My 1892s got no patina on them today because I just bossed around a bunch of people, then went back to my office and pretended to be doing something important on the computer, when I was actually bidding on another vintage repro jacket on the bay. Hope my dean doesn't read this.

Got snipped on a used but mint GW A-2, that would have fit my "octopus" arms and slimmer tall build perfectly, by $67, and only 47 minutes left because I had to go off and teach my Hospitality Management lecture class.



Still want to get a JC in my stable some day, but certainly won't pay for a new one and wait 2 years to get it.

Got Home and took those damned boots off immediately and put on slippers. My feet were sore breaking in that praised Horween!

Its now 48 F. in Oakland. Brrrr. In stead of turning up the heat, I put on my old, often disparaged LL Bean A-2 "Old Goat", which I bought around 1990 and wore the heck out of until I went down this rabbit hole a few months ago. It has Patina

.

Nice to see you dove right in with those 1892s! You got them already? That's crazy. I'm still seeing "shipping on the 18th".
But since I have others, I'll try to be patient.
Good post - we were just talking about the expense and intent of such things and that we're all playing dress up (or down) to satisfy some internal need.
I love this stuff, and I love seeing how other guys do their thing. Great post @jonesy86

ButteMT61 said:

Nice to see you dove right in with those 1892s! You got them already? That's crazy. I'm still seeing "shipping on the 18th".
But since I have others, I'll try to be patient.
Good post - we were just talking about the expense and intent of such things and that we're all playing dress up (or down) to satisfy some internal need.
I love this stuff, and I love seeing how other guys do their thing. Great post @jonesy86

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Thanks for the tip Buttte. I love the boots. However, I might run over them with my car a few times before I wear them again.
I love this forum!
We have an exchange of ideas from a broad range of diverse people, of many different ages, socio-econmic backgrounds, gender (though in jackets we are mostly men). People from many different countries of origin, with different political world views, etc. I am an amateur student of philosophy, sociology, economics, comparative religion, psychology, sociology....you know, the "soft sciences". This forum, sometimes discretely discuss some tabu topics, but with decorum.
I have so far stayed away from any presence on social media like the plague. I seemed to me to be so negative. This has been a good entrée into that whole world. I only recently got proficient in texting because it is pretty much the only way I can communicate with my adult daughter, and it hurts my thumbs to text. At the rick of seeming too Kumbaya, its kinda cool man.
Peace.

Just learned that you have 30 minutes to edit a post.

Harris HTM said:

Agreed, though the latest fashion trend with the cheap knock-off's of MA-1's might actually help disassociate this style from them...

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Certainly seems like it might have to some extent. Interestingly, the last half dozen kids I've seen wearing them have been black, mostly girls, so hopefully the perception is changing. Oddly, it's never been an issue when I wear a B15-C Mod, and if I wore a black one people would just assume I was a bouncer....

ButteMT61 said:

I've seen some. As a completely separate product, I did see some that I thought were cool - albeit for young guys. I like seeing Mil inspired clothes, even if they are by "our" standards, meh. They at least seem to allow younger folks to appreciate our stuff based on the comments I get on gear from youngin's.

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The way I see it, this stuff might not be up to much by our notions, but it's exactly the sort of thing that will inspire some kids to dig deeper and discover our niche.

Big J said:

@Edward, one the one hand, you should get a bike, bikes are cool. I wish I had a Triumph Bonneville. On the other hand, don't get a bike unless you carry a donor card. Gee, y'know I wish there were no other road users in the world, ever!

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Ha, well. Everything has its risks. I've carried a donor card since I was twelve. Might soon not need to, tho, as the UK government is considering switching the organ donor registry from an opt-in to opt out system.

It's like people who buy Leica cameras who aren't professional photographers. Real photographers use cheap cameras.

Total and utter BS. Sorry in advance. We all have our passions - we all spend our money as we please. The only thing we can agree on is Danner boots.......but I'm not in a tactical assault team. Why we obsess over these vintage ( and often outrageously expensive garments ) is inexplicable......so just roll with it.

Harris HTM said:

well, since I grew bald I also shave my head, I miss my hair but I've got to admit it is more practical and easy, no split ends anymore!

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Ha, for sure: even were it an option, I'd be reluctant to go back to the hassle of having hair now.

True that most Leicas are owned by doctors rather than pro shooters, but pro cameras are anything but cheap. Thankfully I've gotten away without the $50,000 option so far.

@breezer, I wasn't asking about our individual 'passions'. I am not a professional photographer, I'm an overpaid academic, and both of my cameras are digital Leicas because, hey, brand image. But all the professional photographers and photo-journalists I know here and back home use the cheapest full size Nikon or Canon camera bodies they can find because cameras are merely work tools, not fashion statements, and get regularly trashed. Occupational hazard.
Maybe all the paparazzi you know buy Leica every couple of months? I don't know.
Where I come from, they are bought by white collar professionals who walk away into the camera shop and ask the store clerk 'which one is the best?' because they can afford it and won't take it out in the rain.

Same argument applies to any item with a group of enthusiasts attached to it. In aviation, the nickname for the Beechcraft Bonanza is "the doctor killer".

Big J said:

@breezer, I wasn't asking about our individual 'passions'. I am not a professional photographer, I'm an overpaid academic, and both of my cameras are digital Leicas because, hey, brand image. But all the professional photographers and photo-journalists I know here and back home use the cheapest full size Nikon or Canon camera bodies they can find because cameras are merely work tools, not fashion statements, and get regularly trashed. Occupational hazard.
Maybe all the paparazzi you know buy Leica every couple of months? I don't know.
Where I come from, they are bought by white collar professionals who walk away into the camera shop and ask the store clerk 'which one is the best?' because they can afford it and won't take it out in the rain.

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Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm a professional photographer and I / we ( my colleagues ) buy the best gear we can afford - and thats mostly pro Nikon models....not forgetting the lenses, which are expensive too. Leicas are what they are - they appeal equally enthusiasts and professionals - I've never owed one, but I will one day I'm sure. And I don't know why you think I know 'papararazzi' - I don't. Judge not.

What an interesting turn to the conversation!

I’m actually struggling to think of ANY casual clothing item that hasn’t been repurposed to some degree.

Engineer boots from well engineers, converse sneakers etc from basketball and skateboarders (I think), gym shoes from the gym obviously.

On the pants, jeans were workwear, khaki/chinos were military pants from India I believe.

Various jackets from either motorcycle or military/aviation beginnings.

Hell even the humble T-shirt used to be underwear.....does that mean everyone is just wearing a costume of sorts to some degree???

@breezer, ok, so let me get this straight.

1. You are a professional photographer.
2. You use a Nikon.
3. You don't own a Leica.
4. Leicas are bought by non-professional photographers and the well-off.

This is exactly what I said. You're really 'bursting my bubble'. Way to go.