Custom Suit help

thorin · Jan 5, 2018

Hi All,

I'm in the process of ordering a custom suit and have been reading up everything I could find in here. What a great resource this community is!

I'm a swing dancer and am hoping to get a suit that has some 1930's-1940's styling to it (ie. a half belt back, wider legs in the trousers) with a mix of some more modern touches like a less exaggerated lapel size.

I've read about getting higher and smaller arm holes for ease of movement.

Is there anything else that you might recommend to me as a dancer (or style-wise) that I should be aware of to make the suit *suited* to my needs?

Lastly, I’m aware that mixing modern with vintage styling might rub some people wrong but I’m not after authenticity, I’m after style, comfort and convenience.

Thanks!!

Mathematicus · Jan 5, 2018

I'm sure you'll find a lot of information reading the threads in this sub-forum, but I would start noting two things:
- 1930s-1940s styling doesn't necessarily mean belt back or exaggerated leg width. Much of the appeal of that era derives from the balance of proportions and from the capactity of incorporating a timeless cut with some flair (which could be expressed, for instance, by short-ish jacket length, very close-cut waist, open and round skirt at front...). Exaggerations like Oxford bags or the boxy cut of late 40s were just fashion peaks and faded quite rapidly.
In my opinion there are lots of more interesting details that can make a jacket look 30s or 40s than belt back. And also, trousers does not need to be extremely baggy.
- A high armhole is not an element of Golden Age style, but an essential element of good tailoring. The concept of "high armhole" is quite more complicated than the height of the underarm seam and involves many factors like placement, angle of sleevehead, width of the back, height of sleevehead, shape of the armhole... Depending on who your are commissioning the suit to, you may get mixed results on that direction.

Good luck!

thorin · Jan 5, 2018

Hi Mathematicus,

Thanks for your response. I'm definitely going for the close-cut waist. As for the half-belt it's more of a personal like. I've always been drawn to the design of a half-belt jacket. The wider leg trousers thing is partially that and partially my comfort in dancing in that style cut. I'll look more into your comment of the round skirt at front as I'm not immediately familiar with what that means. I greatly appreciate your time and I'd love to hear a few more of those interesting details that can make a jacket look 30's-40's.

Thanks!

-Thorin

Patrick Hall · Jan 6, 2018

no reason you have to have a wide lapel, but keep in mind that all stylistic elements will be speaking to each other - so if you are going for a wide trouser, it would look strange paired with a really skinny lapel. I'd also consider going with three patch pockets - it will harmonize with belt back to emphasize that the suit is more casual.

GHT · Jan 6, 2018

thorin said:
Lastly, I’m aware that mixing modern with vintage styling might rub some people wrong but I’m not after authenticity, I’m after style, comfort and convenience. Thanks!!

Don't worry about the fashion police, just wear whatever you find appealing. I'm not sure how you define a custom suit, but I'm guessing it's made to measure but not in front of the tailor. Are you self measuring and putting your sizes down on a pre-printed form? If a tailor is measuring you up you won't have to worry about armhole position but if you are filling in your measurements on a form, make sure, absolutely sure, that you measure up for each tick of the box, twice. A good tip to make sure that there are no mistakes is to measure yourself in both metric and imperial, then translate one or the other.

You might also want to consider the fabric that you plan to have your suit made in. Wool suits look fabulous, they are heavy, hang well, look smart but make you sweat after you have been on the dance floor for a while. A lightweight linen suit will not be heavy and is ideal for dancing, but linen crumples so easily, that after three or four dances your suit will start looking like you've slept in it. One compromise, especially as you have said that you're not a perfectionist purist, is to consider polyester/wool mix, or, heavy duty cotton. I tried a pair of made to measure trousers in poly/wool mix and was really pleased with the result. The fabric has a linen look, is much lighter than pure wool, it doesn't crumple easily and retains it's creases, making you look sharp no matter how many dances. I'm afraid I can't give you the result of cotton because all my suits, bar one linen one, are made of wool, but I'm sure others here will be able to help.

Mathematicus · Jan 6, 2018

The lightest cotton suiting does not breathe as well as an open weave wool. This means that, for instance, in a hot windy day a wool suit with open weave (like fresco) is far better than a cotton one. However, when heat and humidity are the only factors to fight and you are moving around a lot, the cotton suit will beat the wool one.
The drawback is that cotton wrinkles easily (not as linen, though) and tends to wear out rather fast at edges and creases.
Finally, an important factor to consider is the lining. If heat is your concern, make sure you have minimal, quality lining. Quarter lining in viscose, bemberg or similar breathable materials (this means a significant added cost, but it is worth). Even a small percentage of acetate in the lining can make you sweat a lot when moving.

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

Patrick Hall said:
no reason you have to have a wide lapel, but keep in mind that all stylistic elements will be speaking to each other - so if you are going for a wide trouser, it would look strange paired with a really skinny lapel. I'd also consider going with three patch pockets - it will harmonize with belt back to emphasize that the suit is more casual.

Thanks Patrick, you make a great point. I'll be sure to not go too skinny on the lapel or too wide in the leg and try to achieve balance.

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

GHT said:
I'm not sure how you define a custom suit, but I'm guessing it's made to measure but not in front of the tailor. Are you self measuring and putting your sizes down on a pre-printed form? If a tailor is measuring you up you won't have to worry about armhole position but if you are filling in your measurements on a form, make sure, absolutely sure, that you measure up for each tick of the box, twice. A good tip to make sure that there are no mistakes is to measure yourself in both metric and imperial, then translate one or the other.

I have an appointment next week with the tailor where they will be Skyping in for a video chat. My wife will be making the measurements while the tailor watches and guides us on making them properly. I'm considering going to a tailor and paying them to take measurements separately to sanity check against.

GHT said:
You might also want to consider the fabric that you plan to have your suit made in. Wool suits look fabulous, they are heavy, hang well, look smart but make you sweat after you have been on the dance floor for a while. A lightweight linen suit will not be heavy and is ideal for dancing, but linen crumples so easily, that after three or four dances your suit will start looking like you've slept in it. One compromise, especially as you have said that you're not a perfectionist purist, is to consider polyester/wool mix, or, heavy duty cotton. I tried a pair of made to measure trousers in poly/wool mix and was really pleased with the result. The fabric has a linen look, is much lighter than pure wool, it doesn't crumple easily and retains it's creases, making you look sharp no matter how many dances.

Thank you GHT! This is extremely helpful. I definitely don't want a linen as that crumpled look is one I want to avoid. I know very little about fabrics other than that I wanted something that holds a crease and breathes a bit. My original assumption was a light wool but I will definitely consider a wool/poly mix.

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

Mathematicus said:
The lightest cotton suiting does not breathe as well as an open weave wool. This means that, for instance, in a hot windy day a wool suit with open weave (like fresco) is far better than a cotton one. However, when heat and humidity are the only factors to fight and you are moving around a lot, the cotton suit will beat the wool one.
The drawback is that cotton wrinkles easily (not as linen, though) and tends to wear out rather fast at edges and creases.
Finally, an important factor to consider is the lining. If heat is your concern, make sure you have minimal, quality lining. Quarter lining in viscose, bemberg or similar breathable materials (this means a significant added cost, but it is worth). Even a small percentage of acetate in the lining can make you sweat a lot when moving.

Wow, this is wonderful help, thank you all so very much! The lining is something I had not considered and know nothing about. I will definitely opt for quarter lining in one of those materials. Also interesting to learn the gists of Wool vs Cotton. Thanks Mathematicus!

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

Patrick Hall said:
I'd also consider going with three patch pockets - it will harmonize with belt back to emphasize that the suit is more casual.

Interesting. I had not considered Patch pockets. I was thinking Flap or Jetted pockets but I get what you're saying and will reconsider. On some of the jackets that I see online the Patch pocket is very prominent whereas in others it looks almost like a Jetted pocket with just a fine stitched outline of the actual pocket. I like the patch pocket that's more subtly done and would probably opt for that. Is there a difference other than just quality of craftsmanship and tailoring? Also are any of the three pocket styles egregiously off-era for a 30's-40's suit?

Mathematicus · Jan 6, 2018

The only difference between the three styles of pockets is about formality: patch is less formal than flap, which is less formal than jetted. All the three styles cohexisted in the Golden era, but with appropriate use. No patch pockets in a work suit, for instance, or no jetted pockets in a shooting jacket as well.
Since you seem to have little experience with tailoring, I suggest you to choose an "environment" and then build the suit's details around that. This will prevent you to create a "monstrous" garment, which incorporates country and city elements together, but eventually is unsuitable for both purposes.
This has nothing to do with Golden era styling, but it is a matter of common sense, practicality and taste.
For example: suppose I want a suit for smart dinners in town centre, not black tie. I'd opt for a dark blue fabric with plain finish, like gabardine or twill, maybe with some fancy but subtle details like peak lapels and jetted pockets. Since most restaurants are overheated today, I would opt for something not too heavy.

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

Mathematicus said:
This will prevent you to create a "monstrous" garment, which incorporates country and city elements together, but eventually is unsuitable for both purposes.

Thanks Mathematicus. This is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of and greatly appreciate your feedback. I will do as you suggested and choose that environment and consult with my tailor about this as well. Thank you all so much and I can't wait to post my results here (hopefully in victorious satisfaction but I will still post if it is indeed a Frankensuit)

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

Actually, to be sure. Can anyone give me a ballpark figure of the size of a modern vs. period (30’s 40’s) lapel width ?

GHT · Jan 6, 2018

Patrick's advice is best, it's a question of balance.

thorin · Jan 6, 2018

From what I can find online it seems like period wide lapels are somewhere in the 4.5" area and modern thin lapels are in the 2.75" range. I'm going to use about 3.75" as a starting point and discuss with my tailor, fine tuning that to work with my build and suit. Thanks again guys! (FWIW I'm 6' tall and about 155lbs with a narrow face and slightly athletic build)

Patrick Hall · Jan 7, 2018

thorin said:
From what I can find online it seems like period wide lapels are somewhere in the 4.5" area and modern thin lapels are in the 2.75" range. I'm going to use about 3.75" as a starting point and discuss with my tailor, fine tuning that to work with my build and suit. Thanks again guys! (FWIW I'm 6' tall and about 155lbs with a narrow face and slightly athletic build)

Yeah golden era lapels were over 4 inches (talking about notch lapels now, for peaks there are different standards). Unless your trousers will be over 20 inches at the hem, 3.75 inches should be fine. That's the wide side of moderate, and will pair with most ties, which are between 3 and 4 inches.

thorin · Jan 8, 2018

Thanks Patrick. I appreciate your input. I am indeed going for a 19-20" hem so I think I'm ok.
Thanks everyone!!

Claudio · Jan 9, 2018

A bit late but I would check if the coat is canvassed (half or full) rather than fused. This means that the canvass (the horse hair inserted inbetween the external fabric and the internal lining on the front top bit that gives fullness and drape to all coats) is sewn to the other layers rather than glued to one layer. This is important not only for drape and movement, but also keeping the body as fresh as possible, allowing the fabric and your body to breath. As you stated that you had a skype conference call with the tailor this means you will not be too sure how they will be making the coat, and many 'tailors' cut corners and fuse rather than stitch.
If you choose a kid mohair blend (with lightweight wool), this will mean the suit will not crease easily and thus will always look tip top. As stated above, avoid cotton as it is very hot and creases easily - generally a poor choice for suit fabric IMO.

Good luck!

thorin · Jan 11, 2018

Claudio said:
A bit late but I would check if the coat is canvassed (half or full) rather than fused. This means that the canvass (the horse hair inserted inbetween the external fabric and the internal lining on the front top bit that gives fullness and drape to all coats) is sewn to the other layers rather than glued to one layer. This is important not only for drape and movement, but also keeping the body as fresh as possible, allowing the fabric and your body to breath. As you stated that you had a skype conference call with the tailor this means you will not be too sure how they will be making the coat, and many 'tailors' cut corners and fuse rather than stitch.
If you choose a kid mohair blend (with lightweight wool), this will mean the suit will not crease easily and thus will always look tip top. As stated above, avoid cotton as it is very hot and creases easily - generally a poor choice for suit fabric IMO.

Good luck!

Thank you Claudio. I will ask that right now! I'm super grateful for all the help in this forum! Can't wait to send pics of what I get

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