BK Liberty Hide Questions

Jeremiah · Mar 22, 2018

I bought that A2 I referenced on page 1. When it arrives I will write up my review and add some photos.

Superfluous · Mar 22, 2018

Edward said:
It's certainly rather more than I'd be prepared to spend given that it would buy me a couple of Aeros, Thedis, Lost worlds, or whatever and change left over. I'm guessing there must be somebody spending the money, though, or they wouldn't be able to charge it?

I think BK may have dropped the comically priced Victory hide precisely because, at the increased price, there was insufficient demand. On its FB page, BK has a poll regarding whether to revive the Victory hide, which suggests that it is still available if the demand was there.

Edward said:
I seem to remember around the time the prices first shot up, they were offering direct customers deals like buy one get one half price and such, which would have dramatically reduced the per-unit price.

True, BK was offering VERY steep discounts (greater than 50% off). BK was also offering discounts in exchange for positive reviews -- stated another way, BK was attempting to purchase positive reviews with discounts. Nuff said.

Edward said:
My main memory of that was that Andy was touting a soon-to-come Big Announcement about the "new owners" - I don't think it ever happened. Maybe it was American Classics as bought them out? I seem to recall having a lot of fun with all sorts of wild conspiracy theories - including it being Sandy Alexander buying them out in order to relaunch his AL/Simmons Bilt brand after the PR headache of the Lauder trial.

We still know almost nothing about BK's ownership, structure or manufacturing. BK promised to disclose this information, but subsequently remained tight lipped. BK is a complete enigma. Most other manufacturers are open books, transparent about their operations. IMHO, BK's contrasting secrecy, and complete lack of transparency, is intended to conceal material facts that would dissuade potential customers from purchasing its products and emblematic of BK's poor business practices.

Edward said:
As memory serves, BK were rather popular for a while with the VLJ crowd, in particular when they were more affordable and as Goodwear and ELC shot up in price beyond what many could / would spend.

BK long ago wore out its welcome on VLJ (unless things have changed in the last year). As I recall, BK had a different front man on VLJ, as opposed to Andy -- I cannot recall his name.

Superfluous · Mar 22, 2018

I just received yet another crazy e-mail from BK (sales@billkelsomfg.com). Once again, BK called me an “idiot” and various other derogatory names. Unfortunately, I am late to a meeting and, therefore, for the time being, I will leave you with these direct quotes from BK’s e-mail (9:39 am PT):

“If you are a homosexual, (and so are bothered) I suggest you see a therapist because last time I heard science said homosexuality is a disease, mental disorder, condition (call it what you like). He is not going to cure you, but at least help you deal with the problems. We are all straight here, I don't know if that offenses you but I don't care.”

“We did not disparage anyone. We believe in FAIR competition so we denounced those for whom we have grounds to believe they are cheating. . . . Every statement about TB and Horween we made is absolutely true. . . . Sure, we warned them that if they do not stop slandering/harassing us we will sue them.”

“Nice to read your post on TFL but please stop ridiculing yourself like that, it's not amusing. Many people have sent us emails saying how sorry they feel for you and your followers. It is miserable.”

I could not make this stuff up if I tried. I will post more later.

Dickie Teenie · Mar 22, 2018

Off the rails. Hahaha

Otter · Mar 22, 2018

Time had mellowed how I remembered those old threads. Looking back at them now and seeing their latest response to "Mr Abomination" I see now that leopards really don't change their spots. I wish them well.

Oh, and BTW, the earth is not flat, it is patently bowl shaped as you can see in any high altitude photo. And carr through the skies on the backs of four elephants.

Edward · Mar 22, 2018

Superfluous said:
I think BK may have dropped the comically priced Victory hide precisely because, at the increased price, there was insufficient demand. On its FB page, BK has a poll regarding whether to revive the Victory hide, which suggests that it is still available if the demand was there.

It would be logical. Andy will, I'm sure, insist that the hide they use is objectively superior to what anyone else has. That is his opinion, and he's entitled to it. If a high price has made it non-viable in the market, I imagine the averae customer is happy with an alternative hide.

True, BK was offering VERY steep discounts (greater than 50% off). BK was also offering discounts in exchange for positive reviews -- stated another way, BK was attempting to purchase positive reviews with discounts. Nuff said.

Well, yes - that's a whole other debate again.

We still know almost nothing about BK's ownership, structure or manufacturing. BK promised to disclose this information, but subsequently remained tight lipped. BK is a complete enigma. Most other manufacturers are open books, transparent about their operations. IMHO, BK's contrasting secrecy, and complete lack of transparency, is intended to conceal material facts that would dissuade potential customers from purchasing its products and emblematic of BK's poor business practices.

It's unusual to be that secretive - unless, I suppose, BK is using a third party for manufacture and doesn't want to lose any sales to customers going direct. But that's only speculation. Frankly, it seems the creative mind behind BK sees the world very differently than the rest of us, so perhaps it's something of which we'd never think is the reason behind this approach.

BK long ago wore out its welcome on VLJ (unless things have changed in the last year). As I recall, BK had a different front man on VLJ, as opposed to Andy -- I cannot recall his name.

Oh, yes.... I remember a conspiracy theory they were the same person, though it's equally plausible that they wre, as claimed, two different people with a similar philosophy on market relations.

Superfluous said:
I just received yet another crazy e-mail from BK (sales@billkelsomfg.com). Once again, BK called me an “idiot” and various other derogatory names.

You did rather, didn't you? TBH, I find it quite sad -this reds like somebody who isn't in their right mind, and it's almost cruel for them to bed drawn into any sort of discussion as they seem to find it difficult.

Monitor · Mar 22, 2018

Superfluous said:
I just received yet another crazy e-mail from BK (sales@billkelsomfg.com). Once again, BK called me an “idiot” and various other derogatory names. Unfortunately, I am late to a meeting and, therefore, for the time being, I will leave you with these direct quotes from BK’s e-mail (9:39 am PT):

“If you are a homosexual, (and so are bothered) I suggest you see a therapist because last time I heard science said homosexuality is a disease, mental disorder, condition (call it what you like). He is not going to cure you, but at least help you deal with the problems. We are all straight here, I don't know if that offenses you but I don't care.”

“We did not disparage anyone. We believe in FAIR competition so we denounced those for whom we have grounds to believe they are cheating. . . . Every statement about TB and Horween we made is absolutely true. . . . Sure, we warned them that if they do not stop slandering/harassing us we will sue them.”

“Nice to read your post on TFL but please stop ridiculing yourself like that, it's not amusing. Many people have sent us emails saying how sorry they feel for you and your followers. It is miserable.”

I could not make this stuff up if I tried. I will post more later.

Christ almighty... Wh... How...

I guess this is sort of out of context but it still doesn't change the fact that the author of this seriously needs professional help. And a lot of it.

But I wonder now, what's that about TB and Horween?

Flightengineer · Mar 22, 2018

I was not too lazy to read old threads and this one.
What, however, is the strange BK marketing .

ton312 · Mar 22, 2018

Whoever penned that email to SF must be living an undercover life with some serious self loathing that's simply too much to bear...sad and deranged.

Monitor · Mar 22, 2018

That's not marketing, that's just someone being scum of the earth. Those people are sociopaths and nobody, and I mean nobody should support their crap product. Honestly, this left little doubt that their jackets are in fact garbage and that the whole company is a scam of some sort because nobody in their right mind would expect anything decent from someone who doesn't see any problem spewing out such crap. Evil people don't do good things.

Mark · Mar 22, 2018

In my dealings with Andy he has always been professional and courteous. Never had a problem with them at all. They also make great jackets too!

jacketjunkie · Mar 22, 2018

Now that we are properly educated on the homosexualty science, I am most interested to hear their take on aliens, 9/11 and climate change.

edit: This e-mail is beyond ridicoulous and outright disgusting. i had actually considered taking advantage of their current discounts and get one of their jackets, but now? No way. Not now, not ever.

Dr H · Mar 22, 2018

Superfluous said:
I think BK may have dropped the comically priced Victory hide precisely because, at the increased price, there was insufficient demand. On its FB page, BK has a poll regarding whether to revive the Victory hide, which suggests that it is still available if the demand was there.

True, BK was offering VERY steep discounts (greater than 50% off). BK was also offering discounts in exchange for positive reviews -- stated another way, BK was attempting to purchase positive reviews with discounts. Nuff said.

We still know almost nothing about BK's ownership, structure or manufacturing. BK promised to disclose this information, but subsequently remained tight lipped. BK is a complete enigma. Most other manufacturers are open books, transparent about their operations. IMHO, BK's contrasting secrecy, and complete lack of transparency, is intended to conceal material facts that would dissuade potential customers from purchasing its products and emblematic of BK's poor business practices.

BK long ago wore out its welcome on VLJ (unless things have changed in the last year). As I recall, BK had a different front man on VLJ, as opposed to Andy -- I cannot recall his name.

Platon

Superfluous · Mar 22, 2018

scotrace · Mar 22, 2018

And we rather tire of being CC'd on all the whining emails this guy sends out.
Our own experience is such that we would not order a key fob if it came with a free night with Monica Bellucci and Nigella Lawson with background music by Paul Whiteman and a free custom suit from Matt Deckard.

Superfluous · Mar 22, 2018

scotrace said:
And we rather tire of being CC'd on all the whining emails this guy sends out.
Our own experience is such that we would not order a key fob if it came with a free night with Monica Bellucci and Nigella Lawson with background music by Paul Whiteman and a free custom suit from Matt Deckard.

thekiyote · Mar 22, 2018

Monitor said:
That's not marketing, that's just someone being scum of the earth. Those people are sociopaths and nobody, and I mean nobody should support their crap product. Honestly, this left little doubt that their jackets are in fact garbage and that the whole company is a scam of some sort because nobody in their right mind would expect anything decent from someone who doesn't see any problem spewing out such crap. Evil people don't do good things.

Generally, I'm okay with ignoring a lot of asshole behavior, as long as they produce a good product, but they crossed the line from asshole into straight up bigotry, in which case, I don't care how good they are.

I don't know much about the company. Is this just one guy who works for them (who should be fired)? Or is it the whole company? Either way, how do they stay around, since it sounds like this sort of message isn't uncommon...

Edward · Mar 22, 2018

thekiyote said:
I don't know much about the company. Is this just one guy who works for them (who should be fired)? Or is it the whole company?

Nobody really knows. Andy originally told us that he was working either for or with a long established company who had never done the vintage type thing before, and he appeared to be directing the product and the marketing of the Bill Kelso line. At some point, ownership of BK passed to a UK company (when the currency changed on the website). A big announcement was promised, but ultimately never made.

thekiyote · Mar 22, 2018

Edward said:
Nobody really knows. Andy originally told us that he was working either for or with a long established company who had never done the vintage type thing before, and he appeared to be directing the product and the marketing of the Bill Kelso line. At some point, ownership of BK passed to a UK company (when the currency changed on the website). A big announcement was promised, but ultimately never made.

That is so weird.

Question, has anybody tried emailing sales@billkelsomfg.com and see if they respond with the same tone as the cold harassing emails? I just ask, because it's pretty trivial to fake a from email address, though in that case, it would be an oddly specific troll...

Mark · Mar 22, 2018

thekiyote said:
That is so weird.

Question, has anybody tried emailing sales@billkelsomfg.com and see if they respond with the same tone as the cold harassing emails? I just ask, because it's pretty trivial to fake a from email address, though in that case, it would be an oddly specific troll...

I have been emailing with Andy of late as I am buying a jacket from him (my 3rd). As I said earlier he has been totally reasonable and professional with me and a pleasure to do business with.
I wonder if he feels attacked by some folks and he is just fighting back in the only way he knows?

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