Hi all,
I recently purchased a vintage U.S Navy pea coat, and was curious about its age. Are there any resources that could help me figure this out? The coat's inner markings by themselves don't reveal much of anything. Any help is appreciated.
Printable View
Hi all,
I recently purchased a vintage U.S Navy pea coat, and was curious about its age. Are there any resources that could help me figure this out? The coat's inner markings by themselves don't reveal much of anything. Any help is appreciated.
Would you happen to have a picture of it that you could show us? I have one myself and I'm not sure of the date either.
if your jacket is a real US model it will have a tag that gives the model, mil number and the year is usually hidden in that.
Is your tag white or Black. If it's black with yellow letters it's pre mid 60's. But a pea coat hasn't really changed in all those years.
No expert here, but I've heard that older models have pockets lined in corduroy (I suspect I may have mispelled this word.)
true, I believe that they are or at least a heavy cotton. Not satin like a new one. Also if your tag is not at by the collar or right bottom, it might be in the left pocket.
The buttons might be of a bakelight material instead of the modern black plastic too.
A wartime label should be white-ish cotton/oilcloth with USN blurb and an inspector's mark. The wool on the older Peas is denser and flatter- less fuzzy.
As Shamus said, look for labels/tags in the pockets and inside seams-
B
T
Anyone know of a good place to look for older Pea Coats? Am I about to be directed to ebay again?
-Jake
You guys are great, thanks!
Here are more details of my coat:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...ones/coat3.jpg
It's your standard pea coat design -- double breasted, single vent. There are six buttons visible on the front, with another button hidden under each collar. The color is navy of course, and the buttons look black to me. The coat is fully lined (something silky, dark navy/black in color). It's a beauty and in excellent condition!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...nes/pocket.jpg
The handwarmer pockets are lined in a tan corduroy. I've heard from a few sources that this was only done in the 40's.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...ide_button.jpg
Here is the "inner" button, with a low pocket underneath, located on your left hip if you're wearing the coat.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...jones/tag2.jpg
The tag is located just below the right inside breast pocket. It's white cloth with black lettering, yellowed with age. The text is faded, but I can make out most of it:
COAT, MAN'S,
WOOL KERSEY
DSA 100-2739
Size 36R
100% WOOL
To the left is a black stamp "12" (must be the inspector). Around the edges, hand written in blue ink are the owner's name and at the bottom is:
B33 37 07 Co. 184
The name and number are also stamped on the lining below the tag, and again near the vent.
That's about it. The kersey wool is thick, dense, flat and extremely heavy -- not the fluffy/fuzzy stuff you see on modern pea coats. Weighs a ton! I love it.
That may be, but my wife has her brother's peacoat issued to him during Vietnam; it has very nice cordury lining in the pockets...Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Jones
How do the fit on these older militray peacoasts run? Would a 36 be a true 36?
They're very fitted. 36 fits more like a 34.Quote:
Originally Posted by guitone
Go one size larger than your suit size.
Especially as I get a bit older and dislike tight, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Jones
First I need to wear my new barbour and my new G2....
Hello, I may be able to offer some sound advice in dating a pea coat.
I have two WWII pea coats. Both have the corduroy pockets and I also have been told that the corduroy pocket lining has been continued into years after the war. So, how to find out if your pea coat is a war time relic? Well, there is only one way that I know can not be dispelled. It?｢どｨび｢s all about the label!
A true WWII pea coat will have a rectangular aged white label (Originally white) will read like this:
Manufactured by
Navy Clothing Factory.
It will also have an anchor in the upper right and left hand corners. There will also be a few lines at the bottom for name and rank.
These are the labels that you?｢どｨび｢ll find in 30?｢どｨび｢s and 40?｢どｨび｢s WWII Naval uniforms such as jumper tops and trousers. Just as a side note, if you find navy trousers of the 13 button kind, to know they?｢どｨび｢re age you will have to see a metal zipper in the left pocket. If there is no zipper, that means its post 1945.
Hope that helps!
Root.
This is a post war label.
http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/be/4d/b6_1_b.JPG I'll post a war time label soon.
Thanks Root! That's exactly the kind of info I've been trying to find.
Do you know approximately what years they were made with Kersey wool?
Here's one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Root
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...s/wwii_pea.jpg
That's the war time label alright! I tried to find one on the net and couldn't for the life of me! I was going to take a photo of it but, I got lazy. :p
Glad I could help!
Root.
I realize this thread is stale, but I just came across this site, and knowing a few things about Navy peacoats, thought I might answer your question. Hope you come back and see the answer. The "Kersey" wool coats were in production until approximately 1980 when a new contract was let, specifying a different wool. This wool is a "Melton" wool, and is a lighter and more fuzzy wool than the old thick and smooth type wool previously used. Although the old wool was not always called "Kersey" it was the same dense heavy wool until replaced by the Melton wool, which is, and has been, used in the current issue coats for the last 25 years. As the Melton wool is not as thick and warm, the current issue coats have a layer of insulation between the liner and the shell to make them as warm as the Kersey coats. The first contractor to manufacture the new coats was Vi-Mil, Inc. I can't remember if they are still in business, but I did know that at one time. The current contract holder is SterlingWear of Boston, which makes an excellent "new" peacoat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Jones
The color is also different. The current issue coats are black, and the Kersey wool coats are a very dark blue, which appears to be black unless compared to a truly black garment in strong light.
In 1967 the tag began showing the date of contract in the "contract number" which appeared on the tag. That practice is still followed, so dating these coats is simple. Also easy is dating the coats immediately preceeding 1967. During the mid 60s (and not sure how far before that) the tag read simply "US NAVY" and the stitching on the sleeve at, and just above the cuff was distinctive. I believe the tag immediately preceeding the mid 60s tag was one that read "Naval Clothing Factory" and the one before that was "Naval Clothing Depot" which I believe to have been the Korean era. The WWII era produced thousands of these coats, and the language on the tags may have changed several times during the course of the war and with the various contractors, but I'm not sure.
The really old coats had four buttons, and the ones issued after WWII (and maybe during) had three buttons. My history on the WWII coats is not yet nailed down, so I am giving my best guess based on what I do know.
Hope you come back, read this thread, and see the answer to your question; the short answer to which is: From the beginning until 1980. Later, Peacoat.
the current peacoats are still heavy, I weighed mine and it weighed over 6 pounds!
date of mfg. 1994 by Crown Clothing Co.
Yes, they are still heavy, and, more importantly, still warm coats. I have a 1985 dated coat that was made by Cavalier and a bunch of the older coats. I can tell no appreciable difference in the warmth. There may be a difference in rainy or windy conditions because of the tightness of the weave on the older coats, but I have done no objective testing. I am more interested these days in determing the dates of manufacture of the older coats. From about 1950 on I have a pretty good grasp of the labels and how they tell the story of the era in which the coats were manufactured. Prior to then, I just am not sure. That was 60 years ago, and there aren't that many coats left from that era still in circulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by green papaya
Thanks so much for the wealth of information on peacoats; it is most appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacoat
Hey Matt, I finally found my tag notes I made on these great old coats. You have a 1966 coat. I thought that was probably the year, but was reluctant to make a definitive statement until I located my notes. It just took me longer to find my notes than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Jones
The tag, as you described it, is substantially different from the tags that preceeded it. It is very similar to the tags that came after it, but it is unique in that it is the only year of that version of the tag that the date code is not included in the DSA or DLA contract number. Also, it is the next to last year that corduroy was used in the outside pockets. 1967 was the last corduroy year, and a white/gray cotton was used after that.
1966 was a good year for peacoats, and a bunch were made that year, in anticipation of the Vietnam buildup. My favorite year is the 1965 coat. The heading of the tag for that year simply reads: "US NAVY" I have one of those that my best buddy was issued in April, 1965. He gave it to me in November, 2005. I have only found one other 1965 coat in my size on e-bay, and I didn't bid enough on it. They seem to be relatively rare, but I will get another one of the these days. The coat I am wearing this morning is a 1967 coat. It is one of my favorites as that is the year I was in Vietnam.
Take care of your coat by keeping it in a moth protected closet, or keeping it in a moth protected garment bag, and having it cleaned once a year before you store it during warm weather. Cleaning removes particles of food and other matter that moths are drawn to. I have seen more coats damaged by moths than any other way. Reweaving can be done, but it is expensive and best avoided.
Put a heavy turtleneck on under your peacoat, turn the big collar up, and you are ready for the worst winter can throw at you. Enjoy it. I enjoy all 15 or so of the ones that I have!
If I knew how to post an avatar, I would submit a picture of me in one of my coats. Later, Peacoat.
Speaking of Pea Coats, I have my original one that I was issued in 1983. Part way through my enlistment, they made us take the silver buttons off and put plastic black buttons. I'd like to switch it back, but have been unable to find the original buttons. Anyone know where I can look?
Thanks in advance
I saw some metal buttons today obn Ebay. I don't know if they are correct or not. Look under Vintage pea coat buttons...:)
I found the buttons on e-bay and compared them to a 1980 coat I have that has the metal buttons. They are close but have a small eagle above a shield, and my buttons only have an eagle. Also the size is a little different. They are advertised as 1 1/4" and my original buttons are an inch. It would never hurt to get them and see how they work.
I looked this morning to see what I could find for you, and had no luck. A Navy Captain friend of mine is going to call the uniform clothing store in, I believe, Atlanta and see if they have any idea of where the metal buttons might be obtained. Since it is a discontinued item, I doubt there will be much success there, but it is worth a shot.
Do you remember what year you changed the buttons from silver to black plastic? I would like to have that information for my dating notes.
Thanks, I looked at them, they are different. I'm only missing a couple, got lost in the moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by SHARPETOYS
Peacoat, not exactly, I'm going to guess between 86 and 89, since I remember I was married, my wife sewed them on for me. And I wasn't married until 86 and got out of the Navy in 92.
Thanks so much for the info! You say your favorite is the 1965... any particular reason? Or is it more about the nostalgia?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacoat
Very true! My coat (all six pounds of it) has served me well this winter. It keeps out the chill better than anything I've ever had.Quote:
Put a heavy turtleneck on under your peacoat, turn the big collar up, and you are ready for the worst winter can throw at you.
Hi All,
Last winter I gave my SO a classic old Navy peacoat.
Atually, I think it might have been Coast Guard, but same thing, almost.
The material and stitching are truly incredible. Wish I
could find one to fit me. That felt-like wool is so dense-
nothing like the peacoats you see in stores today. And the
lining detail... I'm a convert.
Anyway, it was in nearly perfect condition (and cost next
to nothing at a thrift store), but it's missing a few buttons.
These are the classic 1 1/4" black buttons with the impression
of an anchor and rope.
Anyone know where I can find replacements? Preferably vintage,
but I'd accept newer ones, too.
Thanks!
Here in L.A., fabric stores sell those buttons. They're pretty much identical to the ones on your coat. Try the biggest fabric store in your area.
.
http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.com
I know for a fact there's a small drawer full of peacoat buttons there. I'm constantly popping the buttons off of mine, drives me nuts.
I'll show you what drives me nuts! AAAGGGHHH!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingnut
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...l/85_1_sbl.jpg http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j6...l/65_1_sbl.jpg
Man, that worked like a charm.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingnut
He's sending me a half dozen today.
THANKS!
Now if someone comes across one of these incredible
classic vintage peacoats in size 48 or 50, do let me know...
And Marc, that jacket is a crime. :eek: Can't you dye it black?
It's not mine, thank goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltfan
.
The buttons arrived today. They appear identical,
but are a touch lighter than the originals on the coat.
Good enough for me- I'm thrilled. I do wonder if
button weight might be a way to date these coats.
Thanks again, Wingnut.
You're welcome! Visit the shop sometime if you're in Petaluma.
They can't be dated by the buttons, but I can date them with information from a tag and some other features on the coat. If you want a thick heavy wool, you will want a coat manufactured prior to 1980 as that is when the changeover to "Melton" wool was made. The new coats are probably as warm as the old coats as there is insulation used inside the coat to compensate for the lighter wool. The old wool is more dense, and because of that, is more wind resistant. Maybe more water resistant as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by feltfan
E-bay has an excellent selection of peacoats, and usually has a supply of buttons as well. To cut through the garbage, go to men's clothing, outerwear (I believe) and search for "peacoat" and "pea coat." They are spelled both ways. Don't know what the selection is these days, as I haven't looked at them in several months.
My wife has restricted me from bringing home any more peacoats. She says too many is way more than enough. But if I find one that needs a home, I can always find room for it.
If you want help in dating one, let me know. A picture of the label and a description of the number and placing of the buttons is helpful.
I agree, the pattern matching is atroucious;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Chevalier
I like peacoats, but the weather seldom gets cold enough in CA to wear my peacoat, maybe one month out of the year it gets chilly enough to wear my peacoat on a cold winter night.
In Tennessee, we are "lucky" to have Peacoat weather just about every day from December through February and into March.Quote:
Originally Posted by green papaya
Doesn't seem to be much more than the occasional interest on this board in Peacoats, but they are my favorite. I am a professional who has several nice wool and cashmere overcoats, but I usually find a way to wear one of my Peacoats just about everyday on the way into and home from work during the winter. They are more comfortable in the car and warmer than the standard overcoat. I do have an overcoat at the office for those midday forays into more conservative society, but the Peacoat gets me to the office and back home again.
I have tried, without success, to get interested in the WWII leather flight jackets that are so popular on this board. Probably because the flight jackets I wore during my military pilot (helicopters--VN) days was the green nylon, and that is what I relate to. But where is elan in a current issue nylon jacket?
I think if I could find an original leather WWII jacket, my interest would be much higher, but I have given up on that.
Also, I haven't figured out why the leather jackets were so popular with the bomber crews of the 8th Air Force. From the pictures I have seen here, there doesn't seem to be much insulation in them, and it certainly got cold at 20,000+ feet over Germany. Maybe someone here can answer that for me.
So I went to sew the new buttons on my SO's peacoat
and found that, to my horror, her dog had chewed up a portion
of the coat! Specifically, one side of the button holes. It's
ragged.
Anyone have ideas on how I can fix it? I am inclined to have
a skilled tailor either:
- patch the area with matching fabric
or
- patch the area with a similarly colored fabric
The problem is, it's one thing to find replacement buttons
but quite another to find some of that classic fabric.
Fortunately the lining is intact. Either way, the coat can
be buttoned one way and will still look right.
Any opinions or sources for that incredibly dense wool
fabric they used to use?
Thanks!
It's very Doctor Who in the 70's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Chevalier
Regular fabric shops or even Ebay you can find Peacoat buttons.