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Thread: White RAF Roll Neck Sweaters

  1. #1
    I'll Lock Up Spitfire's Avatar
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    White RAF Roll Neck Sweaters

    Being new on this forum - sorry for asking something that maybe allready has been discussed. But where do I get the original white rollneck sweater the RAF pilots wore under their Irvin?
    Great forum by the way!!!
    Spitfire.
    "There I stood at the bar, wearing a Mae West, no jacket, and beginning to leak blood from my torn boot. None of the golfers took any notice of me - after all, I wasn't a member!'

  2. #2
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    RAF Sweater

    Check the "What Price Glory" retail website, where a British RAF/RN
    rollover sweater lists around $65.

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    I'll Lock Up Story's Avatar
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    One of the Regulars
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    Hi Spitfire and welcome !

    There's also Eastman -

    http://www.shopcreator.com/mall/east...uct-134903.stm
    I don't think so, sir. I never heard of a jury convicting the lawyer. - Major Harvey Stovall

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    'Frock'!

    While there wasn't an actual page for 'Sweaters, the use of' in King's Regulations, obviously many guys chose to wear them in unheated cockpits

    The real-authentic-ohmyGodyougotoneof'em sweater would be the 'frock'. Stores Ref. Number 22G/63. Natural coloured wool, long in the body (to cover your butt), and having a high, non-turtleneck collar.

    While many repros are out there that tend to cover both the Navy and Aircrew look, the original frock looks like this:







    Paddy was looking for a pattern for it, I'm hoping he is successful so WE CAN ALL GET ONE

    http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=9242

  6. #6
    I'll Lock Up Spitfire's Avatar
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    Thank you!

    I will look into this. Unfortunately getting stuff from US is a pain in the ...neck. (Or where-ever)It takes ages and you have to pay customes,vat etc.
    But thanks a lot for your fast and valuable help.
    "There I stood at the bar, wearing a Mae West, no jacket, and beginning to leak blood from my torn boot. None of the golfers took any notice of me - after all, I wasn't a member!'

  7. #7
    "A List" Customer Trotsky's Avatar
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    A shop called Air Diggers (google it) carries all manner of RAF gear, including black and white sweaters. Black was issue, White was RN issue that everybody adapted. Actually the RN sweater was issued to Submarine crews; it took off from there.

  8. #8
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    Frocks, Jumpers, Sweaters

    Quote Originally Posted by Trotsky
    A shop called Air Diggers (google it) carries all manner of RAF gear, including black and white sweaters. Black was issue, White was RN issue that everybody adapted. Actually the RN sweater was issued to Submarine crews; it took off from there.
    A reply from Air Diggers in response to my enquiry about RAF and RN white jumpers:

    "Thanks for your recent enquiry. The sweaters you're referring to are two distinctly different items. The RAF Frock was an issue item going back to the early 1930s and, other than a superficial resemblence, has little in common with its RN counterpart. The design was officially carried on issue as 22G/63 Frock, White, Aircrew and was developed at a time when the RAF was still flying open-cockpit biplanes as frontline aircraft. It was clearly designed with this environment in mind. Key attributes are loose cuffs (wrists and waist), oversized arms and torso, and (by modern standards) extremely long in the body. The collar is not a rollneck/turtleneck -- a fact largely unappreciated by modern collectors as they base their understanding on the white t-neck being worn in the film "Battle of Britain" (which, incidently is a Royal Navy sweater) -- but rather a 2-inch (+/-) standing collar with a very large neck opening.

    22G/63 remained on issue well into the war and was officially superceded by a dark blue version of the exact same design and referenced as 22C/996 Sweater, Navy Blue in 1944.

    The Royal Navy deck sweater, erroneously referred to as a submarine sweater, was different in its design. It was intended to be waist length with all openings suitably snug to retain warmth and stop drafts. The overall fit is much more snug than a frock and the turtleneck collar was designed to place a second layer of wool over the neck and be snug enough to minimize heat loss via the neck.

    There was a third pattern of sweater available beginning around mid-1944 that was not RAF specific but is seen photographically around the same time period. This final sweater is very dark blue/black and was clearly designed with battledress in mind, whereas the frocks were a 1930s design intended for wear under and over a 4-pocket service dress tunic . The sweater is waist-length and has much slimmer arms to fit beneath a battledress blouse. The mock-t collar is still present but is made to fit closer to the throat than a frock.

    All the present reproductions that I'm aware of are (in my opinion) really modern interpretations of what these respective companies think a frock should be. All are turtleneck/roll neck designs -- a feature not present on a true RAF-spec frock.

    A true-to-spec frock is literally not suitable for modern wear. The torso length of a frock is extremely long, coming down to the thighs on most folks under 5'10". The arms are long and extremely baggy -- great for pulling on over your service dress but not so great for general wear as it resembles a sack. The loose, floopy collar, again superb for twisting/turning the neck in an aircraft, looks a bit odd without the scarf beneath it."

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    I'll Lock Up BellyTank's Avatar
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    Men of the Frock...

    Correct-

    There is also no ribbing at the bottom of the "frock" which further differentiates it from all the other 'sweaters'. The 'frock' was 'white'- off white/natural.

    Get some of the RAF woollen leg warmers(I'm serious)- they're really fetching with the frock.

    Maybe now, after that lengthy description from Airdiggers, the 'frockness' of the frock seems more appropriate.

    Men of the Frock/Cloth.

    B
    T
    Looking with my good ear peeled.

  10. #10
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    Defrocked

    Thanks for the info guys. Ever since I was a kid and saw WWII films,
    I've been keen on RAF and RN issue sweaters; also the commando
    sweater, which American GIs like myself use to buy off the Brits, or
    trade jumpboots for while stationed overseas.

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