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Thread: The Anglo-Irish War (1919-1921) and Irish Civil War

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    My Mail is Forwarded Here Story's Avatar
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    The Anglo-Irish War (1919-1921) and Irish Civil War

    Considering the impact the early 20th Century wars in Ireland had on western society, figured some folks here might find this reenactment group I found interesting -
    http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/index.html
    http://www.geocities.com/thirdcorkbrigade/photos2.html

    for the Anglo-Irish War
    http://members.tripod.com/~dungarvan/yinde.htm

    As opposed to the Civil War
    http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/irishcivilwar.html
    The wartime diary of Kriegsmarine Oberleutnant z.S. Max von Zatorski.

    https://www.facebook.com/SeeklarDiaries

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    Incurably Addicted Edward's Avatar
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    Fascinating, I had no idea that there was a reneactment scene for that period (obviously it would be a whole nother can o' worms where I'm from, in the north!! ), though I can see how it would happen given how deep an impact those conflicts had on the birth of what is even today a very young State. I imagine this is probably the closest equivalent there is to a WW2 reenactment scene of any size there is in the Republic, bearing in mind of course that the Long Fella declared the Republic officially neutral in the 1939-45 war. Appropriate that these boys should be based in Cork - big Mick's own county. I wonder whether anyone has recreated Dan Breen's Third Tipperary Brigade of the IRA, which in 1919, as the Dail Eireann met for the first time in Dublin, carried out the unofficial attack (planned and executed at local level only) which effectively commenced the 1919-1921 Anglo-Irish War. Interesting character, Breen. His autobiography, which if memory serves was published in the forties or early fifties, is worth a read. Entitled "My Fight for Irish Freedom", it covers his story from his roots through the 1919-21 war, his role on the Anti-Treaty side in the Civil War, and his subsequent disillusionment with violence. He was later extremely impressed with Ghandi and what he achieved for Indian independence through non-violence.
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    Practically Family sweetfrancaise's Avatar
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    This is fascinating--thanks for the info! My mom has been researching this for quite a while now, and I had no idea these reenactments existed.
    I know. It all sounds like some bad movie.

    Quite Contrarian

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    Familiar Face Dragon Soldier's Avatar
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    Yup, it's all interesting and some of the things that we're seeing now would have been unthinkable just a very short time ago.

    I wouldn't say that it's the closest thing to a WWII Re-Enactment scene though... Clicky on the links.

    Wartime Living History Association

    London Irish Rifles

    Battlegroup South

    Royal Ulster Rifles

    49th Guards, Red Army

    Also represented, but with no websites I'm aware of, groups & individuals representing 101st & 82nd Airborne, Fallschrimjaeger, Ulster Home Guard, Royal Air Force, SOE/Jedburghs & Maquis.
    A man out of time...

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    Bartender PADDY's Avatar
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    Big changes afoot in Northern Ireland.

    The times, they are a-changing. Hopefully we can 'all' move forwards as a community and a nation for the betterment and benefit of all without ever regressing to the 'not so long ago' dark days of bombs and bullets.
    Hot ginger and dynamite, There's nothing but that at night,
    Back in Nagasaki Where the fellers chew tobaccy and the
    women wicky-wacky Woo.

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    Incurably Addicted Edward's Avatar
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    Absolutely, Paddy.... I'd love to see things progress to a situation where everyone of whatever stripe can remember these sorts of things and preserve the history without it being either intended or interpreted by anyone as an aggressive political gesture which sometimes things have been in the past (please note i'm not in any way of the belief that the guys linked to above are maknig any political statement! ).

    Dragon - some interesting links there - I had no idea that there was a lot of this sort of thing happening. Definitely changed times - it's not that many years ago since Donna Trainer(?) was temporarily suspended from reading the news on UTV because she refused to follow station policy and wear a poppy. I remember the kerfuffle that caused, what with Remembrance Sunday being politically loaded for many people. The pace of change is certainly slow, but it's all progress. The phenomenon of Irish boys joining the British army has a long, long history - I'm sure it was an act of idealism for some, though for many others it was an escape from poverty, or small town syndrome, a way to see the world.... their stories are important and should be preserved. Oneo f the old boys in my parent's church - used to sit behind us, died a few years ago - was Dublin born and bred, never lost the accent. Signed up to the British forces (the navy, I believe) to fight Hitler. The back of the order of service for his funeral had a photo of him from the war years, stnading somewhere - if memory serves - in Scandinavia - Oslo? - beside a 'liberated' limo that had belonged to some high ranking Wehrmacht officer. Wish I could remember the details.
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    I'll Lock Up dhermann1's Avatar
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    I just saw an hour show on Cromwell in Ireland last night on a series called "The Conquerors". I had read a couple of good books on the English Civil Wars, but they only touched on his campaign in Ireland. This show helped clarify a few things. One thing I was aware of, however, was the huge scale of the wars in Ireland BEFORE Cromwell. As many as 800,000 people may have perished during the early 1640's in Ireland. The cumulative effect of these catastrophes is awfully difficult to imagine. Anyone in the last century who has had the courage to try to bring peace to that lovely little island (including Michael Collins and Winston Churchill, and Jerry Adams and Tony Blair, and even (especially?) Ian Paisley) deserves a lot of credit and respect. As an American of partially English extraction, who has plenty of Irish American friends, it has been a sad experience learning the full history of Ireland's troubles.
    "Hello. I'm Mr. Hardy, and this is my friend, Mr. Laurel."

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    Incurably Addicted Edward's Avatar
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    I think yes Paisley has to be given his dues there. I've never cared for the man for various reasons - and this is not the place for politics anyhow - but certainly in finally agreeing to work with Sinn Fein, he has made a big break from the norm within that hardline of Unionism over the years. A siginifcant step for sure. Of course, it's all far from over (I often like to say it's all over bar the shooting - there's Northern Ireland humour for you! ), but the fact is that there's no longer an appetite for violence in either community, and every small advance, however agonising it is to get it happen, is a step where the politicians will find no real will among the people to go back on. What will take generations upon generations to kill off are the ingrained prejudices passed down in both communities. But we will get there.... when you think of the long history of conflict in Ireland, we've come a long, long way in the last half century.
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    I'll Lock Up dhermann1's Avatar
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    NOT TO BELABOR THE POINT!!!! But, when people are impoverished, they have little to hold onto but their myths. They have nothing to lose. The tremendous prosperity that is sweeping over Ireland these days must be including the poorer folks of Northern Ireland as well. This is probably responsible for the change as much as anything.
    Without getting into a discussion of who's right or wrong, Ian Paisley has always been my image of one of those old 18th and 17th century characters. Strident, dramatic, uncompromising and spectacularly eloquent.
    All of which, given that the name of this forum is WW II, is
    "Hello. I'm Mr. Hardy, and this is my friend, Mr. Laurel."

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    Incurably Addicted Edward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhermann1
    NOT TO BELABOR THE POINT!!!! But, when people are impoverished, they have little to hold onto but their myths. They have nothing to lose. The tremendous prosperity that is sweeping over Ireland these days must be including the poorer folks of Northern Ireland as well. This is probably responsible for the change as much as anything.
    Without getting into a discussion of who's right or wrong, Ian Paisley has always been my image of one of those old 18th and 17th century characters. Strident, dramatic, uncompromising and spectacularly eloquent.
    All of which, given that the name of this forum is WW II, is
    it is indeed. I absolutely agree with you about the poverty issue, though. It's kids growing up on both sides with no prospects, no hope - a friedn grew up in an area where her dad was virtually a celebrity because he had a job. little wonder people in that sort of situation find themselves "a cause"...
    If in doubt - overdress.

    Vivienne Westwood

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