Mallory's Everest jacket: gussets out there today?

[Alan Eardley]

Here's a photo of a 1975 Belstaff Moorland Jacket that I mentioned earlier. Not to dissimilar to the 1920s Burberry jacket, but definitely for shooting and with an action back.



Alan

[Creeping Past]

A new-style pivot sleeve for sedentary urban types who are occasionally compelled to move.

[PADDY]

Admin

[DanielJones]

Here is one that Nigel Cabourn is putting out.




Do enjoy a good tweed.

Cheers!

Dan

[JPumfrey]

Hello - As a sideline to this thread, an excellent book is "Ghosts of Everest - the search for Mallory and Irvin" which details the expedition that found Mallory's body and has some wonderful background on the orginal expeditions.

[BigFitz]

Hopefully, someone will find Sandy Irvine someday. About a decade ago I read a book (the title escapes me) about the Mallory/Irvine attempt and there was some confusion in the eye witness description of their observed activity at the second or third "step". It's possible that they succeded in their attempt with obvious disasterous results. It is known that a camera was taken along. If Irvine is found, the proof of "success" may lie with him.

I have to find and re-read that book.

[MikeKardec]

I have no solid opinion about the qualities of modern or vintage gear, I often wear a mixture of wool and synthetics depending on conditions. However, having spent a fair amount of time living at fairly high altitudes (9000 ft), I will say that many places in the high mountains are fantastically dry. You still sweat but getting wet even from snow isn't that much of a worry if you are careful, using a small tarp, etc. With some ventilation sweaty (not necessarily sweat soaked) under clothes tend to dry out pretty well not like a synthetic but that wasn't an option in 1924. Carrying enough water is an issue especially in the winter when it's MUCH drier. I can remember waking up with eyes so dry they hurt on a number of occasions

I have heard that there are places in China and Tibet that are so dry that the natives used to coat their skins in butter. Is it possible that water retaining fabrics might not have been as big an issue under these circumstances?

[JohnnyLoco]

"They've also analyzed the performance of his apparel...and found it superior to today's outfits."

I have to say I got a laugh out of this statement. I am guessing the guy that made it has never spent the night in a snow cave or doing anything else that involved actually getting and staying wet. I have been mountaineering for forty years or so, long enough that when I started everything was made of wool.

Your outfit would weigh about twenty pounds (dry!) and would not dry out for the duration of your trip. It was revolutionary when plastic clothes came out. Suddenly your outfit weighed 75% less and would actually dry out while you were wearing it.

Wool is hard to beat for some things, nothing else is as good for socks. But if you have to wear your clothes for four days straight, alternating between very hard work and sitting in the snow, you are gonna be a lot happier wearing plastic clothes.

I have to agree. I believe in a blend of natural fibers and the modern stuff. The key thing you have to remember about high altitude clothing is the higher you get the less the breathing capabilities of boots, and outer garmets matter. Circulation slows down so much that preventing frostbite by far out weighs transfering moisture. Moisture is at a minimum anyways because movement becomes (at above 8,000 meters) very slow. In terms of sea-level high-intensity sub-zero survival is concerned, polartec, wool, and canvas is necessary to prevent hypothermia.

[JohnnyLoco]

The man who made a statement to this effect (Graham Hoyland) has summitted the highest mountain in the world a number of times and wore some of the reproduction 1924 clothing on the recent expedition to Everest to try it out. I don't know whether he has ever spent the night in a snow cave, but he surely has in bivouacs and tents on most of the world's highest mountains. I suspect that he knows that getting wet isn't the problem when climbing a 20,000+ feet peak - you are well below the freezing point. The main problems are wind chill and temperature control when changing from strenuous activity to rest and back again.

The statement given above is taken out of context. The clothing wasn't found to be 'superior to todays outfits' in all dimensions. The findings of the expedition were basically that the 1924 clothing performed better than was expected in terms of wind chill and allowed greater mobility and better temperature adjustment than the one-piece climbing suits used today. It was, however, markedly inferior to today's gear in terms of warmth at rest.

I would agree with this statement as well. The main benefits of down and synthetic clothing is weight savings, which matter a whole lot when climbing. Warmth is another matter, though. Thick wool and fur is by far the superior material for warmth and breathability. Down can accomplish the same at a lesser weight. I am becoming a bigger fan of primaloft because it can be combined with breathable fabrics such as poly-cotton and polyester and keeps you warm when wet, unlike down.

[Grey Fox]

Hopefully, someone will find Sandy Irvine someday. About a decade ago I read a book (the title escapes me) about the Mallory/Irvine attempt and there was some confusion in the eye witness description of their observed activity at the second or third "step". It's possible that they succeded in their attempt with obvious disasterous results. It is known that a camera was taken along. If Irvine is found, the proof of "success" may lie with him.

I have to find and re-read that book.

I went to the school where Irvine was educated (Shrewsbury School) and my seat in the school chapel was next to a plaque commemorating his short life. I didn't follow his adventurous career, but my son did, having followed me to the same school. My son is now the same age as Irvine when he was lost - which, for me, emphasises just how young Irvine was. I wonder what he would have gone on to do if he had survived?

Anyway, I regularly wear a Cabourn Tenzing jacket (basically the Mallory as far as I can see) - one of the most practical coats I have - wearable in all but the heaviest downpour and, with layers, in cold weather. The great advantage over modern fabrics is that it breathes and feels very comfortable. (Picture from Cabourn website).


TENZING