Ebay Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[TipTop]

Throwback to colonial days headline/listing:OUTSTANDING VINTAGE WHITE MAN'S PANAMA STRAW HAT / REALLY STYLISH LOOKING!

[rlk]

Any one familar with the Borsalinos being sold on eBay from Sofia,Bulgaria ?
The seller is claiming them to be from the 30s but the liners and sweats look like 60-70s stock.
Any info on them would be appreciated.
Thanks

There are some earlier discussions regarding these. The sweatbands and liners are not like 60-70's. Sweats are gray or reddish brown pebble and 2-1/4 wide with rear lacing. Some have silk with colored piping on liners. Factory stamps have Borsalino script on left, some with colored perimeter and some with separate perforated Punti size stamp.

Sofia was bombed extensively '43-44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing...n_World_War_II

After WW2 references to the Royalty("Fournisseur Royal" and "rue"(French) for streets would no longer be used. Bulgaria came under Soviet Influence until 90's with use of Cyrillic more common and little luxury goods foreign trade in Socialist Republic. Hats are most likely from the years just before Italy and Bulgaria became War Zones.

[Joshbru3]

Just bought this early Panama straw. I was the only bidder. I bought it because it was very interesting, and I just love the "Gambler" style look it has. From the pictures, it appears to be very old, possibly even pre-1920. The sweatband has a certain kind of reed stitching that I have seen on hats dating from the early 1900's/late 1800's. The sweatband leather is butted up against the reed and then the stitching is sewn over the reed. Then the sweatband is sewn to the hat. I have a couple late 1890's Derbies with that style. I didn't mind the couple of minor cracks in the brim, because I won't be wearing it. I really bought it to study and enjoy the history of it. And for 20 bucks, what the heck.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300687299273...84.m1439.l2649

[TipTop]

Just bought this early Panama straw. I was the only bidder. I bought it because it was very interesting, and I just love the "Gambler" style look it has. From the pictures, it appears to be very old, possibly even pre-1920. The sweatband has a certain kind of reed stitching that I have seen on hats dating from the early 1900's/late 1800's. The sweatband leather is butted up against the reed and then the stitching is sewn over the reed. Then the sweatband is sewn to the hat. I have a couple late 1890's Derbies with that style. I didn't mind the couple of minor cracks in the brim, because I won't be wearing it. I really bought it to study and enjoy the history of it. And for 20 bucks, what the heck.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300687299273...84.m1439.l2649

I was about to ask after reviewing the pics if you thought you could tame those squared edges...but looks as though they are too brittle. Is steam the answer on a Panama, if not too late? Handsome piece.

[bowlerman]

That is too sweet, Josh! Gamblers are usually telescoped, no? But you do have the rolled brim. Hmm-- maybe it was made for gambling on a riverboat casino!

[alanfgag]

Very nice Josh!... interesting sweatband detail. Will be interesting to get your take on whether this is original construction, or a repair from sweat/heat damage along the way. I have a feeling hat shops did a lot of renovation on straws back in the day.

[bond]

Thank you for that detailed info Robert
Much appreciated.

[Joshbru3]

I was about to ask after reviewing the pics if you thought you could tame those squared edges...but looks as though they are too brittle. Is steam the answer on a Panama, if not too late? Handsome piece.

Thanks, TipTop! Steam does do wonders for Panama straw, but its a double edged sword sometimes. I have owned very old panamas that were very soft and pliable, but were totally miss-shaped. Once I steamed them and reshaped them, they looked great, but the shellac kicked in and made the straw very firm again. Its not always a bad thing, but can make the straw more susceptible to breaking. But when doing any shaping on a panama, it must be done with water and/or steam. Messing with panama straw while dry is usually a recipe for disaster. With this one, I can probably make the brim look normal again and make the cracks less evident.

That is too sweet, Josh! Gamblers are usually telescoped, no? But you do have the rolled brim. Hmm-- maybe it was made for gambling on a riverboat casino!

Thanks very much, Jeff! I know that Gambler probably wasn't the right word to describe this style, but I couldn't think of anything else at the time. Gamblers do usually have telescoped crowns. Maybe this one is a plantation style? Its funny you say riverboat because after I bought the hat, I could just picture the original owner listening to some early ragtime jazz on a riverboat, going down the river in New Orleans. That's what I love about old hats, or anything old for that matter, so much mystery and SO many stories. If only these hats could talk.....

Very nice Josh!... interesting sweatband detail. Will be interesting to get your take on whether this is original construction, or a repair from sweat/heat damage along the way. I have a feeling hat shops did a lot of renovation on straws back in the day.

Thanks, Alan!! I can't wait to get my hands on it to do a full photo session. I would be curious to find out if the sweatband has been replaced. I feel its original because of the type of read stitching and the type of sweatband embossing. If it was a replacement, it was replaced a very long time ago. Probably pre-1920's. I would imagine hat shops must have done a ton of panama renovations back in the day.

[alanfgag]

If it was a replacement, it was replaced a very long time ago. Probably pre-1920's. I would imagine hat shops must have done a ton of panama renovations back in the day.

I've never been able to figure out what's going on in this one... would probably need a full CSI investigation to know for sure.

[Joshbru3]

I've never been able to figure out what's going on in this one... would probably need a full CSI investigation to know for sure.

I remember that one......its the rossenized Optimo crown, right? I think your original observation was absolutely correct about the sweatband being a replacement and the original reed acting as a sweat barrier in front. The hat must be fairly old if the original sweatband used real natural reeding for the sweatband reed. The replacement sweatband looks very old also. It has that "vvvvvvvvvv" stitching which I have seen used on very old soft and stiff hats as well. In England, that stitching was used for a long time, and I believe that several manufactures still use that stitching. I have a couple hats with old replacement sweatbands that I believe to be from the 40's/early 50's. Yours looks much older and I would take a guess that the replacement sweatband was done sometime in the late 20's/early 30's. That's purely a guess though based on characteristics.