Black Suit

[ortega76]

Tone-on-tone black stripe? That's not the Voice of Authority or something, its a suggestion for what I'd call it. That covers a lot of ground in patterns, though, and range of shades.

Ghost stripe?

[Flat Foot Floey]

Any new thought on (vintage) "black suits"? Are they for sundays? For poor people who only own one suit for every occassion?

There was an interesting statment in this older thread .

From my past conversations with a few of the "old salts" on the Street (and yes, my only real source are stories from old Jewish rag sellers!), black suits were not uncommon, but there was a particular rule about wearing them. Whereas now you can get away with a black suit at pretty much any more formal or business occasion, back when you'd only wear black in the evening, at religious services (funerals, etc.) or if you were the help.

According to his son, one clothier in particular, who opened on King St. back in the '20s, and ran his store until he died back in 1986, only carried a handful of dressy black suits, and flatly (and vehemently!) refused to carry black trousers, saying that "a real gentleman wouldn't think of wearing them" and that only one who was "in service" would ever wear black trousers.

Maybe there is a rule about it, and I'll get to looking, but I don't think it was an unacceptable thing. Personally, a black suit is a core item.

[Edward]

I missed this before... I've owned two black suits in my time, both modern, but in a very mid Fifties cut. The first was a black fab I wore a lot... Loved it with an open neck shirt, rockabilly style. The second is a black linen suit I bought two years ago on Jermyn Street. An absolute life saver at Summer graduations where I need something formal but would die under wool. I love the look of a well cut black suit, providing it is not worn either as costume (white shirt, plain black tie... ) or is one of those awful ones garter up with some satin and trying to pass as a Di and trews. Rather an honest black lounge suit with a bow for the evening than the latter.

Often when I wear a black suit, people think it's midnight blue. go figure

And on the subject, I was looking to pick some folks' brains. I have 2 different very interesting black jackets; one a 1933 dated Belgium-made single breasted peak lapel with a great nipped waist cut to it and very thick nice material, and the second a double breasted jacket that is belted and pleated back. What colors and or patterns could go well with these? I don't want it to look like a kid in the 30's trying to throw together a haphazard version of morning dress or something... I have a pair of perhaps 40's-era gray tweed trousers that have a black weave that -somewhat- resembles a stripe, and this just looks like perhaps a grotesque on evening dress. I don't want to do that, I just want to have a somewhat casual and/or classy look going thoughts?!

[
Fwiw, I would suggest trousers in a silver grey, or a PoW check, or black and white houndstooth.

Old thread, I know, but I can't resist.

[Cobden]

Any new thought on (vintage) "black suits"? Are they for sundays? For poor people who only own one suit for every occassion?

There was an interesting statment in this older thread .

It seems to be the case, in the UK, that all black suits were not the done thing - appropriate only for servants and gentlemen of the cloth. To (well to do) Briton, a black suit had cashmere striped trousers or spongebags. I've come across such sentiments in a couple of style manuals. For the less well to do, it does seem to have been done, both as Sunday best which could double as funeral wear (those in the higher echelons would have worn a black lounge/stroller/Streseman or a morning coat). Also, in some industries - before the onset of boiler suits, in any case, black suits were worn for practicality - coal mining, for instance (that said...they may not actually be black suits in the photo's. The may just be...erm...well, covered in coal!). There were also some uniforms that were, for all intents and purposes, black suits, for similar reasons (railway, tram, zookeepers, etc)

[Flat Foot Floey]

yes. I think that's the very formal british way. I don't know if other countries had the sames rules. that's why I asked. the german vintage shops often offer more black suits than other colors. could this be because:
1) there were many black suits
2) black suits were for sundays and special occasions so they didn't wear out so fast*
3) the collectors already bought all the other suits


*the black suit as one step down from the tux/stroller so that it could be worn both on daytime and in the evening?

[Stanley Doble]

A lot depends on the individual. Comedian Ernie Kovacs often wore black. A friend described him as the only man who could wear black and look loud . Black suit, white shirt, black tie, diamond stickpin, diamond cufflinks, and look gaudy.

One of Kovacs' suits

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9523898

Another Kovacs black suit

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9523924

Kovacs in his black suit, for the holiday season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBjtlq9kVGw

On the other hand some people should avoid black entirely. If you have a heavy or large build, a gruff voice, swarthy appearance a black suit can be too intimidating for most occasions. Although there may be times you want to scare people off .

[Cobden]

yes. I think that's the very formal british way. I don't know if other countries had the sames rules. that's why I asked. the german vintage shops often offer more black suits than other colors. could this be because:
1) there were many black suits
2) black suits were for sundays and special occasions so they didn't wear out so fast*
3) the collectors already bought all the other suits


*the black suit as one step down from the tux/stroller so that it could be worn both on daytime and in the evening?

It's entirely possible that Germany didn't have the same view of black suits as a faux pas as was the case in the UK. Do all the black suits seem to be of the same quality - all low quality would suggest working suits, cheap but reasonable quality would suggest Sunday wear, various different qualities would suggest black had no negative social connotations. If they're all rather conservative in cut (three button, notch lapel, and two piece), clerical may be an option (after, a member of the clergy's job during this period would probably not put too much wear on a suit). The other question is era: do they all seem to date from the 1930s?

(I hasten to add there is one very niggling and rather unpleasant possibility which I'm dearly hoping can be dispelled by some of the answers to the above)

[Hal]

It's entirely possible that Germany didn't have the same view of black suits as a faux pas as was the case in the UK. ...If they're all rather conservative in cut (three button, notch lapel, and two piece), clerical may be an option (after, a member of the clergy's job during this period would probably not put too much wear on a suit).

I'm sure you're right, though not for one reason you mention (which I quote). Since the 2nd World War it has not been the practice of either Protestant pastors or Catholic priests in Germany to wear dark suits with clerical collars as normal street wear (the only European countries where this is usual, apart from Britain and Ireland, are the Scandinavian countries with their established Lutheran Churches).
But I have no knowledge of what was normal practice in Germany before the war - with an anti-Christian regime in power, I suspect the clergy would have worn lay dress in the street.

[Cobden]

It's possible that that explains it too - clergy abandoning black suits in favour of less sobre options would be a reason for the numbers that survived. As I say, it depends on what consistencies exist withing these suits, really.

[filfoster]

This is always a fun subject. For those who can stand to visit more than one online forum www.askandyaboutclothes.com 'Trad' forum has a fun beat down on black suits. Spoiler alert: Fun or funerals.