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Thread: 9mm or 45cal

  1. #21
    I'll Lock Up HoosierDaddy's Avatar
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    Don't see much talk here of performance under great stress.
    ..but a lot of discussion about bullet placement...and paper target shooting.
    I want a caliber that...if I'm lucky enough to hit the aggressor once under 'stress' ..it might/will stop him immediately if not sooner. Isn't that the whole point concerning carrying a handgun for defense?
    I've carried mainly a .45 acp for many years for that very reason.
    HD

  2. #22
    Bartender sheeplady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rocket View Post
    I will most likely be the only one, as my wife has her own gun.
    I've been looking at bullet costs, and I'm thinking the 9mm is the way to go. If I need more than that, heck, I do have a .357 wheel gun. My uses a 6 shot 38cal S&W that we inherited from my mom.
    Ah, ok. I asked because in a situation of where the spouse/partner is less likely to be familar with firing a gun, I've always heard it recommended that you get the gun that is the most simple and easiest for the spouse to fire, so in a panic situation they are able to simply discharge the weapon. Since your spouse has her own weapon, my point is a little nil.

    I'd recommend you go with the 9mm because of cost if that is really what would determine your range time. A gun you are more familar with due to more shooting time is a better gun than one you are not as familar with. Also, I can see the advantages of being able to carry the gun, even if that is something you don't see regularly happening right now. I'm not sure if the concealed carry is a matter of preference (you'd be more likely to carry the 9mm) or if it is a matter of legality (you legally couldn't carry the 45 in your state or it would be much harder to get the permit to carry the 45) because I live in a state where it is next to impossible to get a permit to carry a handgun, concealed or not.
    Progress: Going from being able to "hear a pin drop" to "can you hear me now?"

  3. #23
    One Too Many Johnnysan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
    Don't see much talk here of performance under great stress.
    ..but a lot of discussion about bullet placement...and paper target shooting.
    I want a caliber that...if I'm lucky enough to hit the aggressor once under 'stress' ..it might/will stop him immediately if not sooner. Isn't that the whole point concerning carrying a handgun for defense?
    Exactly my point. Training and familiarity with the weapon in your hand is exactly what makes the difference when the shooter is under stress...not the number of grains of powder behind the round or the size of the projectile that hopefully hits the mark. Granted, those two factors are important, but only if the shooter has the mental and physical discipline to appropriately respond to the situation and let their training do the rest.

    The science of ballistics is not new and this debate will likely continue on for as long as firearms and gun enthusiasts exist. There is no such thing as a "magic bullet." If there was one round that did everything for everyone in every situation, the ammo companies would dry up having lost the opportunity to continue to sell us on the misguided notion that without the latest, greatest, "bigger, badder" round, we are defenseless against the predators who threaten us and our families.

    ...and I'd have nothing to debate over coffee with my friends on the Lounge!
    "Who needs hair when you've got a sweet hat?"

  4. #24
    My Mail is Forwarded Here Flat Foot Floey's Avatar
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  5. #25
    Call Me a Cab 1961MJS's Avatar
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    Hi

    I have NOTHING against the 9mm, but I can't hit crap with a double action / Glock trigger. I target shoot at least once a week with one of three 1911 frames, so I carry one also. The only 1911 framed 9mm that's supposed to be worth having is the STI Trojan (I think). Springfield's aren't well regarded on the 1911 forum. The Beratta I own is a double action first round, then single after that. The double action trigger pull is such that I can shoot it welll enough to hit a 1 foot square at 25 yards. I realize I can't legally shoot somebody that far away (in most cases), but that's where the target stands are.

    Later
    Mike

    Groucho Marx said it best:
    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying all the wrong remedies.”

  6. #26
    "A List" Customer Aristaeus's Avatar
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    Book Review

    Handgun Stopping Power: The Definitive Study
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/afte.htm

    Marshall and Sanow write on page 35: "The 9mm Silvertip has an excellent street record. The single instance of underpenetration in the FBI/Miami shootout is not grounds for withdrawal from service."

    This statement is incorrect. Numerous failures due to insufficient penetration have been documented with the 9mm Winchester Silvertip 115gr JHP. One infamous incident occurred on Easter Sunday in 1989, when San Diego Sheriff’s Department Tactical Unit officers were forced to shoot a criminal 27 times over several minutes because their 9mm Silvertips failed to penetrate deeply enough to damage any vital organs and cause physiologic incapacitation, despite solid torso hits. A bullet finally severed the relatively superficially placed carotid artery and jugular vein in the neck, resulting in fatal hemorrhage which ended the encounter. The San Diego Police Department switched to the 9mm Winchester 147gr JHP after several documented underpenetration failures with the 9mm Winchester Silvertip 115gr JHP
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This excerpt is from Chapter Two of John Potocki's new book, The Colt Model 1905 Automatic Pistol,
    http://veritas1911.blogspot.com/2006...luence-on.html

    One of the most graphic references about lack of stopping power comes from Colonel Louis A. LaGarde, M.D. in his classic text, Gunshot Injuries, published in 1916.

    LaGarde writes the following:

    Antonio Caspi a prisoner on the Island of Samar, P.I. attempted to escape on Oct. 26, 1905. He was shot four times at close range in a hand-to-hand encounter by a .38 Colt's revolver loaded with U.S. Army regulation ammunition. He was finally stunned by a blow on the forehead from the butt end of a Springfield carbine. 1. Bullet entered chest near right nipple, passed upward, backwards and outwards, perforated lung and escaped through back passing through edge of right scapula. 2. Bullet entered chest through left nipple, passed upwards, backwards and inwards, perforating lung and lodging in subcutaneous tissues. 3. Bullet entered chest near left shoulder, passing downwards and backwards, perforating lung and lodged in back. 4. Bullet entered through palm of left hand and passed through subcutaneous tissues and escaped through wound on anterior surface of forearm. Treated at military hospital, Borongan, Samar. Turned over to civil authorities cured, Nov. 23, 1905.

    I don't think a pellet gun will work, and your not going to stop everybody with anything. It is about putting the attacker on the ground rather you kill him or not. This is where the knockdown power of the 45 comes into play.

  7. #27
    Practically Family Gene's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but no firearms are "pellet guns."

    And one incident in 1905 doesn't detract from 20th century law enforcement's success with the .38.

  8. #28
    Bartender sheeplady's Avatar
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    If we're just talking about "taking an intruder down" with poor aim, I wouldn't be even thinking about a handgun. More like a shotgun with buckshot.

    But in your house you'd probably take out a wall too.
    Progress: Going from being able to "hear a pin drop" to "can you hear me now?"

  9. #29
    Call Me a Cab 1961MJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene View Post
    I'm sorry, but no firearms are "pellet guns."

    And one incident in 1905 doesn't detract from 20th century law enforcement's success with the .38.
    Well, the incidents in the Philippines made the US Army decide to change to the .45 ACP (back to the .45). Of course, the Filipino's were supposed to be on drugs of some sort.

    Later
    Mike

    Groucho Marx said it best:
    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying all the wrong remedies.”

  10. #30
    One Too Many Johnnysan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene View Post
    I'm sorry, but no firearms are "pellet guns."

    And one incident in 1905 doesn't detract from 20th century law enforcement's success with the .38.
    One must also remember that the .38 round in question was the .38 Long Colt...the cartridge made famous for its inability to stop Moro tribesmen during the Philippine Insurrection. The lack of stopping power of that round was primarily responsible, in large part, for the development of the more powerful .38 Special cartridge and the Army's return to the .45 in 1909. And, again, I'm distinguishing between a military grade cartridge and one for personal defense. What's "right" in a combat situation on the battlefield, may or may not be "right" in terms of personal defense on the street or in one's home.

    At one time, the most common issue weapon among police departments in the United States, including the FBI, was the Smith & Wesson Model 10 in .38 Special. Many criminals met their maker due to a run in with this now often under-rated round.

    Apologies to the OP for having hijacked this thread...
    Last edited by Johnnysan; 01-29-2012 at 05:18 PM.
    "Who needs hair when you've got a sweet hat?"

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