Advertisements
Page 38 of 38 FirstFirst ... 28363738
Results 371 to 374 of 374

Thread: 9mm or 45cal

  1. #371
    Practically Family Bamaboots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    989



    Advertisements
    Peacoat, Ayoob is a fellow I followed by reading everything I could find by him in the early 80's, at the start of my career. He is an expert on the 'point and shoot' technique in CQB.

    In regards to officers firing their weapons, the first SWAT school I attended, there were around 35 in the class and when polled, only about six or seven had ever fired their weapons outside of training. Of those six or seven, five were on the same team. Two on that team had been in more than one gunfight.

  2. #372
    Practically Family
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacoat View Post
    Agreed that most officers are not gun experts and that the vast majority never have to use their weapon. There are exceptions, however. I knew a female officer who has shot and killed three bad guys in the line of duty, and another officer I knew has dispatched, I believe, four of them. We were at lunch one day and the other officers were discussing how some officers were just unlucky in getting into deadly shooting situations. They cited the officers I mentioned as examples. None of the officers at the table had ever fired their weapons except during training. Together they had over 60 years service as police officers.

    I came up with the name of the fellow I mentioned in one of my posts above. It is Ayoob Massad. He has written a lot of books and articles over his career. Many are cited in the link below. There are enough articles there to keep one busy for a long time.
    "Ayoob" is his last name. One of my favorite off-duty holsters was termed the "Ayoob Rear Guard" by the manufacturer back when I purchased it. Then 09-11 occurred, and the manufacturer saw fit to remove any reference of a name like "Ayoob" and renamed it the "Freedom," or the "Patriot" Rear Guard, or something like that. I always felt it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, myself.

  3. #373
    Call Me a Cab Peacoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,635
    Quote Originally Posted by IXL View Post
    "Ayoob" is his last name. One of my favorite off-duty holsters was termed the "Ayoob Rear Guard" by the manufacturer back when I purchased it. Then 09-11 occurred, and the manufacturer saw fit to remove any reference of a name like "Ayoob" and renamed it the "Freedom," or the "Patriot" Rear Guard, or something like that. I always felt it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, myself.
    Yes, especially since his grandparents immigrated here in the late 1800s. And you are right, his last name is Ayoob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaboots View Post
    Peacoat, Ayoob is a fellow I followed by reading everything I could find by him in the early 80's, at the start of my career. He is an expert on the 'point and shoot' technique in CQB.

    In regards to officers firing their weapons, the first SWAT school I attended, there were around 35 in the class and when polled, only about six or seven had ever fired their weapons outside of training. Of those six or seven, five were on the same team. Two on that team had been in more than one gunfight.
    Yes, I too read everything I could by Massad. Back then there was not much internet, so everything had to be hard copy. He used to write a lot for Guns Magazine. I subscribed for several years so I would get his articles. He may even have been an editor for the magazine at some point in his career.

    I am surprised there were that many officers in your department who had fired their weapons outside of training. That actually seems to be a high percentage. I have worked with the police for much of my career and know very few who have fired their weapons on the street. The female officer I mentioned in a prior post was at the wrong place at the wrong time on several occasions. She worked in a very active zone.

    The first time, she and another officer were responding to a robbery in progress at an upstairs apartment in their zone. The male officer entered the doorway first and started to go up the stairs with her still just outside the door as there wasn't enough room for two of them to enter together. The doorway was at a right angle to the stairs. He was armed with his service revolver and she with the riot gun. At that time our department issued #1 buckshot for the shotguns, and may still do so.

    Just as the male officer put his foot on the first step, one of the robbers fired down at him with a sawed off shotgun. The female officer immediately pushed her way through the doorway right behind the wounded officer and fired up the stairs at the gunman. The #1 buck did its job. That part of the gunfight was over. But there were other robbers still in the apartment. I can't remember what happened after that to clear the apartment, but it was fairly exciting. I think some people were jumping out of windows. Another one or two of the bad guys may have been shot. The officer who had been shot survived, and after several surgeries on his right arm, including a skin graft, was able to return to work and complete his career without much more excitement. The other shootings the female officer was involved in were with her service revolver. All were ruled legal ("good") shootings.

    The female officer later was made a detective and moved up in the police hierarchy. A few years after this incident, we dated for awhile. We never discussed her shootings, but she was very particular about carrying her service revolver with her everywhere she went, both on and off duty, and she was dedicated to range work. She had a pocketbook made with a holster inside for quick draw, and she would practice drawing from the pocketbook. The police range was on the other side of town, but I knew a place close by where we could go. We shot together several times. That is how I know she would practice drawing and firing from the pocketbook. That wasn't authorized at the police range. While I also trained at the police range, it was more fun to go shooting with a good looking female on our own.

    Back then, there were very few female police officers, and pocketbooks, bags and holsters just weren't made for women. The pocketbook she had made had the holster right at the top of the bag, so when the bag was opened, the revolver was visible. She had it made that way for quick access as she knew from experience how quickly things happened and how fast she would need to draw her weapon. She would try and keep the weapon hidden when accessing items in her pocketbook, but that was sometimes hard to do. Once we were at the store to get some things she needed. The lady at check out saw the weapon when the pocketbook was opened, and got very pale very fast. My friend realized what had happened, pointed to her badge next to the weapon, smiled and said, "It's OK, I'm a police officer." That was one very relieved cashier.

    I could tell police stories for the rest of the day (and night), but I need to move on with other things.

    BamaBoots, I'm glad you are familiar with Massad. Looks as if others are as well. There is a lot of knowledge there. Roll Tide. PC.
    Last edited by Peacoat; 08-09-2015 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Nothing matters much and most things don't matter at all.

  4. #374
    Practically Family Bamaboots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    989
    Quote Originally Posted by IXL View Post
    "Ayoob" is his last name. One of my favorite off-duty holsters was termed the "Ayoob Rear Guard" by the manufacturer back when I purchased it. Then 09-11 occurred, and the manufacturer saw fit to remove any reference of a name like "Ayoob" and renamed it the "Freedom," or the "Patriot" Rear Guard, or something like that. I always felt it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, myself.
    IXL, the rear guard is one of the names used for that type of holster and the other, though I'm not sure it was attributed to Massad Ayoob, was the SOB (Small Of Back) holster. Carried one for years.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •