Oxford Bags

[Nick D]

Is there any non-ancedotal evidence of students of any university wearing them over knickerbockers? Plus fours aren't much different from normal trousers to begin with, and when you add the usual collegiate sweater and maybe a sport coat, there would be so many layers over the middle that no amount of looseness through the hips would hide it, particularly if they were tweed. Also, the blousing of the plus fours over the knee, even with the narrower styles of the '20s, would ruin the drape of the long trouser leg and be visible except with the 'comedy' ones Two Types mentioned.

[herringbonekid]

Nick i agree. a pair of baggy trousers over plus fours would look ridiculously bulky.
here's my theory based on no evidence whatsoever; the trousers in the previous photo were maybe the grey jogging bottoms (U.S. sweat pants) of their day. it does mention that those chaps were between races. maybe it was originally a comfy trouser to pull on over athletic / rowing shorts while waiting about ? that would also explain the 'cozy' fleece fabric. (Two Types, while i agree it is some sort of cheap wool i don't think that amount of even all-over wear would be feasible).
people saw them and reproduced the look in smarter fabrics; the rest is history. that's my version anyway.

[Two Types]

Good point about the consistency of the fluffy fabric. It does appear that it is not simply 'tufting' in patches. The trouble is that I have no knowledge of cheap sporting overtrousers worn during that period, although it would be a logical conclusion. This actually makes the whole subject of 'Oxford Bags' even more interesting. The photo archives at the various colleges involved would possibly give further hints, as would be the memoirs of people at Oxford University during this period.The order books of Oxford tailors (if any such records still exist) would also give useful information since they should record the cloth types - and also identify the measurements of genuine Oxford Bags (i.e. not trousers with a 40 inch ankle circumpherance!).

It would seem that we are challenging the accepted history of 'Oxford Bags'. That is a good thing. Maybe a couple of weeks back we should have suggested to a certain Mr Chevalier that, if he was getting so frustrated with the FL, he should have gone away to spend a year researching the definitive story of the 'Oxford Bags'. That would have been worth waiting for.

[herringbonekid]

TT, i saw on another thread that you've written books on military history. maybe you should consider a more fashion focussed book soon ?
i doubt the Oxford bag story would fill an entire book, but how about British men's fashion 1922 - 1952 ... you know it's dying to be written !
all men ever get is a few pages in the larger books devoted to 30s 40s fashion for the ladies (e.g. Forties Fashion by Jonathan Wolford).

[Mario]

^^Attempting to be a firestarter, eh? First Marc, now Two Types... Well, go on - I'm all for it!

[Two Types]

Thanks gentlemen. Yes, as a writer with a love of fashion, such a book would be ideal. The trouble is I don't have a background in fashion (although in my past employment I was a picture editor in a press agency, where I was the the specialist in catwalk fashion shows), undermining the credibility of any fashion book written by me. As such, it means I would be looking to write for a small publishers, meaning advances would be lower (and so on).

Plus, I have to combine my writing with other work since history isn't a great payer these days.

However, two of my books do cover fashion. In 'To the Victor the Spoils' I devoted a chapter to fashion in the British Army, showing how soldiers changed their uniforms to make them look more fashionable. In my new book 'Blitz Kids' I cover the story of British seamen buying fashionable American clothes in New York etc during WW2.

But don't worry, given some time, I do intend to write something on fashion: but don't hold your breath!

[valentinogaremi]

Hi,
It sounds quit interesting, your post is really useful for me. I'll defiantly check it out. Thanks for your efforts dude.

[Flat Foot Floey]

I just found a short article with picture in a german magazine. I am a little excited about this. It's from 1929. They are called "Charleston" trousers but Oxford is also mentioned. Will scan it as soon as my own computer works again.

[Two Types]

http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/oxfo...nts-p-419.html

I hadn't seen these before. I'm in a quandry: I don't like to be critical since I support the idea of people making affordable reproduction clothing. However ... am I alone in thinking these should be called 'College Pants' (or whatever the correct term used in the USA), since they are stylistly closer to those than to original 'Oxford Bags'? The American version (as I would consider these) always seem to be closer on the seat, thus giving a more flared appearance.

Or am I simply being pedantic (or, indeed, am I just wrong)?

.... That aside, I am glad they are making them - but I could never wear them.

[herringbonekid]

TT, you're right they do resemble the American collegiate style rather than the English Oxford bag. i think that since those collegiate trousers were inspired by Oxford bags the term might have caught on in the U.S. to encompass the above trouser too.

by the way have you seen these ones ? ...

http://www.revampvintage.com/mm5/mer...gory_Code=M30s

probably the less said about them the better, especially as they're modelled by Mr.Chevalier.