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A diplomatic request

MDFrench

A-List Customer
To the fine men and women who frequent this forum,

I greatly appreciate the free exchange of ideas on this forum and the fact that this is a place where we can vent our frustrations with society without fear of alienation or repercussion.

However, I would like to make an observation. While I personally am politically fairly moderate with a lean towards conservative values, I sometimes feel that people with liberal ideas are grouped under the negative monniker of "liberal" as defined in the extreme.

Just because someone has liberal ideas does not necessarily mean that they are a liberal extremist or anti-American Communist. There is a person in my life who is liberal, one who has had a profound and positive influence on my life and my growth as a human being -- My mother.

I have been blessed with loving parents, and my mother was integral in my upbringing, always there at my side, always nuturing and caring, and quick to impress upon me right and wrong and the value of religious convictions. And yes, she is of a more liberal point-of-view, but she is the most moral and upstanding woman I have ever known, and I think I turned out quite all right by any standard.

The 1930s and 1940s were spearheaded by one of our greatest Presidents, who I believe if memory serves was a Democrat. While the Democrats of today may or may not be of his ilk, let us remember that there are many liberals out there that are moral people, just as there are conservatives who preach hypocrisies and do wrong.

One of the most important ideas my mother taught me was that generalizing people in groups can often lead to misunderstandings. Not every conservative is a facist, not every liberal a communist.

Thanks for your time guys. Hope you are all well.

With all sincerity,
Michael
 

MK

Founder
Staff member
Bartender
Well said.

We should distinguish between liberal ideas and people who are liberals.

It is very true there used to be some very good democrate presidents. If democrates were still made of that kind of level-headed thinking, they wouldn't loose so many people to the right.

I have friends that are liberal and I have friends that are democrats.....which are not all liberal. There are still some blue-dog democrats still out there.

These good people are my friends. I should be a good friend and do my best to help them see the light.:p
 

Nathan Flowers

Head Bartender
Staff member
Messages
3,652
Agreed on all points.

As an aside, wow, "blue-dog democrats"? Maybe that's a California thing. Around here, they're known as "yellow-dog" democrats. This is left over from the days of the solidly democratic South, when it was said that people in the south would vote for a yellow dog, as long as it was listed as a democrat.
 

Renderking Fisk

Practically Family
Messages
742
Location
Front Desk at The Fedora Chronicles.
Fair Game

Well, speaking for my mom here too. She?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a democrat but a very conservative democrat. We?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve had conversations which end with us agreeing that the last Democrat in the White House who was a true Democrat and not a socialist was shot in Dallas 40 years ago.

The special interest groups such as the ACLU have hijacked the modern Democratic Party and might I even dare say add GLADD and NEA. They represent the honest working class people in this country as much as I represent the South American Cat Jugglers Union.
 

Jsoftz

New in Town
Messages
37
Location
Hometown, USA
Y'all think the ACLU is bad. They are, but they're saintly compared to the disgusting sickness of NAMBLA. I can't believe a group like that has any clout whatsoever in our country.
 

Imahomer

Practically Family
Messages
680
Location
Danville, CA.
Originally posted by Jsoftz
Y'all think the ACLU is bad. They are, but they're saintly compared to the disgusting sickness of NAMBLA. I can't believe a group like that has any clout whatsoever in our country.

I can't believe it's being mentioned on this forum! :eek:
 

Jsoftz

New in Town
Messages
37
Location
Hometown, USA
Well. It was rather obscene, however the point I was making is that the democratic party of today represents scum like that.
 

Imahomer

Practically Family
Messages
680
Location
Danville, CA.
Originally posted by Jsoftz
Well. It was rather obscene, however the point I was making is that the democratic party of today represents scum like that.

"Rather" obscene??? I understand your point, however, that group is as far from things like the ACLU, Democrats and the like as you can get.

From my point of view they aren't fit to be mentioned in this forum or anyone like this one, which promotes many positive ideas and relationships.
 

Renderking Fisk

Practically Family
Messages
742
Location
Front Desk at The Fedora Chronicles.
As the father of a young boy, I think that group should be run out of town.

I was going to mention NAMBLA, but I don't have any clear evidence that the Democrats of today or the Democrats of Yesteryear stand with them. The thought DID cross my mind.

Democrats of today don't have a single NEW idea that doesn't involve taking MORE of your money. Every idea these people have involves enslaving more of the working people in this country through more taxes. Democrats aren?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t happy until they have every last dime you have, and if given the way things are going there's going to be a time when they will take everything you earn and spend it in ways you don't think are appropriate.

How soon do you think there's going to be a mandate to determine if the house you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re buying is too big and inappropriate? How soon are these people going to determine what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a necessity and what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a luxury you can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t afford? They already want to tell us that we shouldn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t be allowed to drive SUV?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s or trucks.

There?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s also a new trend with in the Democratic Party of ?¢‚Ǩ?ìMoral Relativism?¢‚Ǩ? and anti-Christian rhetoric. The an attitude that reeks of smugness, asking who are we to judge what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s right and wrong.
 

Michaelson

One Too Many
Messages
1,840
Location
Tennessee
Renderking Fisk, as a card carrying member of the South American Cat Jugglers Union, Northern branch, I take exception to that comparison AND remark!:mad: :rage: ;) High regards. Michaelson
 

Rabittooth

New in Town
Messages
5
Location
The Depths of the Realm
Originally posted by Michaelson
Renderking Fisk, as a card carrying member of the South American Cat Jugglers Union, Northern branch, I take exception to that comparison AND remark!:mad: :rage: ;) High regards. Michaelson

Bwaahaa!!!! Now that's an obscure reference! Steve Martin is a genius! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL :cool:

-Rabittooth
 

Fedora

Vendor
Messages
828
Location
Mississippi
Ah, a place to voice my strange political views! First off, my parents and grandparents were all Southern Democrats, may God rest their souls. But, the Democratic Party of those days is no more. So much has changed in the last 30 years. The Democratic Party has given this country much in the past. Take social security. A safety net for parentless children, and the elderly underprivledged members of society. Not everyone has retirement, and not everyone was able to have a nest egg to rely upon when they were too old to work. So many times in the past the Republican party has been the party of the well to do. So many times in the past, the Republican party could care less if the poor lived or died. That is their legacy that endures until this very day in certain parts of the country where the memory has not died out with the older people. Around these parts, the republicans are still viewed with suspicion. They are seen as the party of big business. They are seen as the party that does not give a hoot about the poor, the downtrodden, the folks that don't have the inheritance to stay rich and prosperous. They are seen as the party of the rich, and as the party that feels more at home with the wealthy and tend to ignore regular working Joes, unless they are scheming with the big corporations to pay you little.
There was a time when you had liberal republicans and conservative democrats. Those were better times in my opinion. Today, the polarization makes me sick to the stomach. The democratic party has been hijacked by the far left, and the republican party has been taken over by the far right. Both the far right and far left are dangerous to a free society. They are extremisms, and left as is, will change what this country was founded on. It is happening slowly, day by day. And has been going on for 3 decades. I must say that I vote republican, but I also hate what the party stands for. But, I hate what the democrats stand for much worse. I hate having to choose the less of 2 evils. But that is the way that it is, and always will be. I have no hope for a collective epiphany.
As of today, the goverment, our civil servants(civil masters), are letting manufacturing jobs move over seas. Cheap labor, more profits for the folks that really don't need the extra money, while the working class are having to take jobs in the low paying service industry. This is watching out for the general welfare of our citizens? It is only padding the pockets of the few. Which party is allowing this to happen the most? You be the judge. This country became rich and great due to turning raw materials into consumer goods. Do you guys realize how many parts that are used by the armed forces come from outside this country? If we were to enter into a world war again, how in the heck can we secure the transportation lines to insure we have the parts needed to win a conflict of this nature? It can't be done. Who was looking out for the general welfare of our citizens when we handed all of this over? We must never forget that greed is a prime motivater, and greed must somehow be under the control of the civil masters. If allowed to run rampant, the few at the top get richer, the ones in the middle and at the bottom suffer. Which party ignores this the most? In times past, the democratic party was looking out for the less fortunate, but within the contrains of capitalism and democracy. I saw a news program this weekend and the topic was which party was more "Jesus like"? Of course, it was said that the democratic party was, but that was a joke. You think Jesus would be killing all of his brothers and sisters just because the parents made a mistake and made the youngin', but did not want him/her because it might cramp their lifestyle? I don't even feel like laughing at that one.
I think that govering, and laws should be as simple as possible. If life is precious, and our criminal laws reflect that by procecuting murderers, how in the heck can destroying a baby's life be logical? The argument is, the woman has the right over her body. But, we don't give users of dangerous and non dangerous drugs the same right. If that is their body(using the same argument as the abortionists), then what they do to it is their own business, and not yours, or the goverments. See, we have no consistency at all. It is insanity, pure and simple. I have always felt that if a person wants to destroy their life with drug use, hell, that is their decision. Of course, more than likely, if the person doesn't kill themselves in the process, they will stop using at some point in time and grow up, all the wiser. Under the current insanity, we send em to prision, and they come out as real criminals and society suffers much more. You say that drug use and crime go hand in hand. Yep, but the system created this. How many winos do you see committing crime? Some, but not many. Why? Well, alcohol is so cheap and available that they don't have to steal to support their habit. You can panhandle and get enough in a short while for a bottle of Ripple. Not so with drugs. Drugs are expensive, because they are illegal and the risk involved inflates the price to where a panhandler can't panhandle enough. OK, off the subject, but this must be vented today. Our drug laws are insane. And we are so stupid not to see though it. Stupid. I just get sick when I see law enforcement agencies speak out against drugs. Heck, they are doing nothing but protecting their jobs, and the dirty money that is made selling what they consficated in the busts. You don't think the cops sell drugs? Greed affects them as well as the next guy. So much money is made off of drug users once they get in the system. Lawyers, judges, prisons, etc. You ain't taking their money away, and so the vicious cycly goes on. You lock up a guy who sold a little bag of pot to someone, and his family is totally destroyed, he is bandrupted, and he is taken away from his kids. And it was all over a plant that grows wild, and a plant that never overdosed anyone. Look, I don't touch the stuff, never have, never will. I am just stating facts here, and how the polictics and greed affects us, or them.
To be honest, I am fed up with the Republicans, and the Democrats, and I am fed up with greedy stupidity. I am fed up with policies being illogical, and the quibbling over social security going bankrupt, when we send hundreds of billions overseas to take human life, but don't give a damn about our own people, unless there is some money to be made by someone. You see, if being a Republican means not helping out the disadvantaged, the sick, the poor, then I am ashamed to be one. That is the idea that I get of the Republican party today. Not a dime for the needy, the old, the sick, but by God we don't mind spending billions overseas to help folks that basically hate us. It is anathema to take tax dollars and help our own people. We might undermine the work ethic.(not that I want to just give money to lazy folks). But, Republicans have been noted for ignoring the plight of the poor, while sending billions to other folks that want us dead. Insanity. I am older than most of you, and sometimes death seems mightly appealing if it does nothing than gets me out of this madness. My fantasy is to wake up one day, and suddenly we as a country look beyond our own little greedy desires, and actually feel a love for our neighbors, or fellow countrymen, our friends abroad. I live for the day when we actually try to do the right thing as a country, and our politicians abide by our unselfish wishes. Well, it ain't gonna happen, and I know that. But, I can wish can't I? Fedora
 

Marlowe

One of the Regulars
Messages
146
Location
The Berglund Apartments
Wow. You pretty much summed it up for me. Democrat and Republican politics and politicians, to me, have become the hypocritical VS. the rapacious. I usually go to polling places trying to figure out who I hate more, who to vote against. It seems that the entire U.S. political process has been subverted by special-interest groups and lobbyists. Heard much about election finance reform on the news lately?

It's an old joke, but a good one: What's the difference between Democrats and Republicans? Democrats want to run the country and Republicans don't want 'em to.
 

The_Edge

One of the Regulars
Messages
224
Location
WA USA
All right, who's the Berkley college drop out who went on to suffer serious brain damage after being struck in the head by a tear gas canister at the WTO riots that has hi-jacked Fedora's account?
 

Jsoftz

New in Town
Messages
37
Location
Hometown, USA
Fedora, I have to say that I disagree with you on several accounts. You're right, you're older than me and thus you have more experience, however I think I have some good points myself.

To keep on topic, I agree with Mr. French there- I have plenty of liberal friends and I care for them dearly. What I don't care for is many of the liberal ideas of today.

You say that the left has gone too far left and the right too far right. While I can certainly see the left going farther and farther, how can you say the right is going too far right? We have an extremely moderate president who approves of such things as Affirmative Action and whose goal is not the reduction in the size of government. Granted, I like President Bush, but I don't think he's very conservative. Sure, he passed that massive tax cut, which I really supported. But he's nowhere near a right-wing crazy (which do exist, just not in great capacity in our government). A right wing crazy that I really happen to like is President Reagan. He was definetely not a moderate. A major left winger that I like is FDR. No one would call him a moderate either. My point is, a moderate president (or government) has never done anything significant to the government or for the people. They just rather mull about in office making wishy wash desicions. We need someone with a strong idealogy and a strong leadership quality, not someone who is too afraid to be too far from the center.

You go on to talk about how the big companies are greedy with no respect to the little man. While i'm definetely not going to argue that greed is a factor, what do you suggest to change it? Should we let the government regulate all the businesses so the little man gets his "fair cut?" It's not always true, but often times the big man at the top has gotten there by his virtue of knowing how to run a company. Thus he reaps his rewards. Many poor people (not all, but many) have made repeatedly poor desicions and continue to make them. Many of them are just lazy and see it easier to let the leftist politicians fight their fight for them. I would know, my family is filled with these people. I'm not from a well-to-do family at all. Though we have enough to live in a house and watch television and go out to eat once in awhile, my parents can't afford to pay car insurance so I don't have a license yet. However the republican party IS looking out for me by cutting taxes and protecting us from abroad. My mom got back a tidy sum of money thanks to President Bush's tax cut and that helped out a lot. We were able to put our money back into the economy. Big companies can offer us the lowest prices as well as the best service. Sure, mom and pop businesses are great but you know they are more expensive. Simply put, capitialism is our greatest asset here that we can choose where we want to buy things. The businesses, both mom and pop and large corporations shouldn't have to look out for the "little man," trust me, they've got quite the task looking out for themselves. The Republican party doesn't stand for letting people out to rot out of our own self greed. It stands for making your own choices and then taking responsibility for them good or bad. The little man at the bottom who chose not to graduate from high school or to accept defeat from his social constraints is taking responsibility. I also think the big CEO should take responsibility for all the illegal activities in his company- more and more CEOs and companies are getting sued and convicted every week.

Ah drug use. I have to say I don't agree with you at all there. While sure, people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, using dangerous narcotics like cocaine or heroine cloud your judgement so much that you cannot decide what you want. I've had several relatives who were driven to do things that they would normally NEVER do by these drugs. The chemical addiction is too powerful for any one person to handle without help. They will kill to get money to buy these drugs. And don't say that we're creating the problem by making it a black market, that's not true. If it was made legal and you could go get it from your local 7-11 people would still kill for cocaine and heroine. The drug makes you crazy- you can't decide for yourself or use your better judgement. Instead of letting the drug dealer or drug addict accept responsibility for his crimes, you're blaming our drug laws and police officers that work every day to protect you. If we didn't throw these people in prison this black market would get even more out of hand. What I don't agree with is that these people get better medical care than you and I do because of some bleeding heart who thinks that we should coddle criminals... but that's an entirely different issue all together.

You say laws should be simpler. You think our laws are complicated? Go to Europe. Ken can tell you the whole system there is a mess. And the fact of the matter is that if we don't try to account for every contigency, (which we can't but we must try), some dumb### is going to twist and turn every single word of the law into serving their own twisted intention.

It's not that republicans aren't charitable, either, it's just that we don't believe that the government can or should force charity through taxes. If we want to donate our time or money, then we will do it on our own accord. I don't want some bureaucrat working in a welfare office deciding who gets my money for free. If I want to give it away, I will decide who and where it goes to.

With all that, I agree that the greed in the system does exist and it makes me sick to the stomach. It's so crazy that some days it just makes me want to faint. And i'm young- i'll be here for awhile. But the most I can do is try to change it myself, and that's what I will do. I'm just going to have to try and stick to what my mom told me- do the right thing.

Oh- and that little bit about us sending money to people wanting us dead? Bush recently said that he was going to cut the money we are giving to Saudi because they are not helping us fight terrorism. I agree that that is a huge problem.

Well. I don't think this will win me many friends, but that wasn't the purpose. Maybe i'm just a kid who doesn't know anything. All that said, I still think you're really cool and have really snappy taste in hats! Just a politicial disagreement.
 

Michaelson

One Too Many
Messages
1,840
Location
Tennessee
Understood. They never do assign topics that allows one to , uh, 'emote', do they?;) I hear that from my college attending daughter ALL the time. (grins) Regards. Michaelson
 

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