Input on Quality and Fit of Less Expensive A-2 Jackets

[Annixter]

Let me first say that I've searched the forum for a long time, and I've been unable to find the information I'm looking for; please forgive my oversight if I'm asking recently answered questions, and please point me to any threads that answer my questions if that is the case.

I'm in the market for a practically priced and designed A-2, and I'd appreciate input on the quality and fit of the three companies I've researched. As a disclaimer, I'm not concerned with obtaining a reproduction WWII A-2 at this point in my life, as I plan on wearing the jacket a lot and in dirtier situations than I would wear a high end reproduction. Also, I want a jacket that has the convenience of hand warmers and inside pockets, and I feel that the WWII and first reissue A-2 falls short in that area of practicality, despite the first generation's superior fit.

The three companies I've researched are Cockpit (formerly Cooper and Avirex I've read), Gibson and Barnes, and US Wings:

Cockpit actual USAF current issue: $275 usd (on sale)
US Wings current issue design: $200 usd (on sale)
Gibson and Barnes 1987 reissue (don't make current issue from what I've found): $338 usd

All are goatskin.

Now for my questions:

1. How much different in slim fit is the current issue A-2 from the 1987 reissue? Does the current issue look distractingly full, or does it still fit well enough to be attractive? Obviously a subjective question, but input helps nonetheless.
2. From the three companies, which is superior in build quality and fit, and why?
3. Are there any other companies in this price range that make a better 1987 reissue or current issue A-2?

The US Wings jacket is appealing due to its price and supposed similar quality to the Cockpit USAF issue jacket. However, for $75 more I can get an actual Cockpit issue jacket which is also tempting.

Thanks for your assistance!

 

[Silver Dollar]

I can tell you that if I were you, I'd stay away from lambskin. My experience with lambskin is that it's too delicate for what you want to do with it. If the company you deal with has a decent return policy if something doesn't fit like you want, then I would get the size that you think will fit right and if it doesn't, send it back for a larger or smaller size as per your desires. I've had a couple of Cockpit products over the years. I bought my first one back in 1977 and my second one in 78. I lost the first one in a hurricane but I still have the second one and it still looks pretty good. They may not be accurate reproductions, but the quality has been there over the years. The fact that you don't really want a high end replica will save you a lot of cash. I'd go with the Cockpit product.

 

[nicholasb]

What you need is some info from people who have worn the different brands. I would have thought that the US Wings was good value for money and would be hard to beat at that price but some say that Gibson and Barnes are built well and very tough compared to others.

 

[442RCT]

The three brands you've inquired about have had many postings/reviews, they are good products for the price. If you use the search function, you should be able to access the posts for those jackets. For example, Capt Caveman has extensively reviewed the Cockpit Avirex jacket recently and another poster has reviewed US Authentic, another manufacturer of what I call "orphan" A-2s. (Orphan A-2's are moderately priced jackets, which are not copies of any WW2 contract, but have all the salient features of a WW2 A-2.) I was, more or less, an accumulator of orphan A-2s. But since joining this forum and Vintage Leather Jackets Forum, now accumulate used Eastman, Aero and yet to be found Goodwear jackets. I've been pretty lucky so far, I recently purchased gently a used ELC warhorse hide and well broken in but not abused, Aero A-2 used for the same price as a new Avirex, G&B or US Wings jacket. If I find a used orphan jacket for around $ 100 in my size, I'll pick it up for a painter / patch project.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=47235&highlight=cockpit+avirex
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=3147&highlight=cockpit+avirex
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=49524&highlight=cockpit+avirex
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=36551&highlight=cockpit+avirex
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=48309&highlight=cockpit+avirex

What size are you ? I have a gently used Avirex horsehide in a roomy size 42 for sale, $ 200 shipped if you're interested (or anyone else). I wear a sz 40 or 42 depending on cut and usually Cockpit/Avirexes military cut horsehides run 'trim', this one wasn't a trim fit and is somewhere between a size. 42-43.

 

[Annixter]

Thanks for the information all. 442, thanks for the links, as they have helped greatly. I'm slim at a 36, which may hurt me if the jacket fit is too bulky, as US Wings is the only company that, at least online, sells anything smaller than 36 in my price range.

After reading the longer of the US Authentic threads, I'm contemplating the US Authentic WWII A-2 and the Cockpit current issue A-2. Although I'd like the inner pockets and the hand warmers of the current issue, I am concerned about the fit being too bulky. I certainly would appreciate any input into the fit of the current issue A-2 in comparison to a reproduction WWII-cut A-2. Even pictures of current serving men would be helpful.

 

[Annixter]

After hunting some more, I came across this mounted current issue Cockpit A-2. I'm still having trouble locating a mounted picture with the hands out of the hand warmers.

 

[gyrobroyeur]

Just my opinion before you buy it, but this picture show how an A2 doesn't fit when it's oversized:
too much place around the neck, shoulders are falling and the waist looks too big over the waistband... Ok, it's not a WWII cut... But maybe you have better to take a S if you usually size L....

 

[Phantomfixer]

If you go with The Cockpit, I would, ask for an upgrade to the knits used on their GI issue A-2s. They hold up way better than their standard knits.

 

[Tone]

Anyone who actually has one of these with a picture of it on?

That Cockpit A2 is the same one from this thread, I believe.

Quality of Coopers A2 jacket.

Oh, guess this one shows the fit on these. Cool.

 

[Annixter]

Thanks for the additional info. Tone, that picture is the 1987 reissue, if I recall correctly from reading the original thread. It doesn't have the hand warmers or inner pockets, so it is supposedly a tighter fit. It would be nice to see a current issue zipped up on someone.

 

[captaincaveman1]

Regarding fit on the 1987.... just keep in mind I went down a size from a 42 to a 40 in the pic above. I think it's just a matter of preference as some loungers chimed in that they preferred the looser fit of the 42 over the 40 after I posted pics of both.

I reviewed the Cockpit USA horse here:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=48421

GL w/ your search. There are no Cockpit retailers by you? If you're in NYC you can always visit the store near SoHo.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I can't comment on Cockpit A-2s, though I briefly had one of US Wings' goatskin Indy jackets. I didn't think it was anything special in terms of materials, but it has held up very well: I gave it to a friend who's worn it every day through three NYC winters. The fit was odd for an XL: huge shoulders, longish sleeves, narrow chest and waist - it didn't work on my widebody form at all!

I've had one of Gibson & Barnes Civil A-2s (based on the 1987 spec, but with added pockets) since 2001. It has held up splendidly to heavy wear. The goatskin is supple but indestructable. I don't care for the "textured nylon" knits, which are very tough - a scissor won't cut the threads! - but designed to quickly fray and pill in a misguided attempt to give a vintage appearance. I also find the slick Dacron lining very uncomfortable on bare skin... but I've been spoiled by the delightful cotton linings in my US Authentic (horsehide) A-2 and Wested (lambskin) Raiders jackets. However, I really like the smoothly curved shape of the G&B's pocket flaps vs. the ugly "V" of most modern A-2s.

(Of course, their more expensive Historical A-2s have WWII-correct wool knits and cotton linings. I have one of their Historical M-422A Navy jackets, and the wool knits are excellent!)

There's no question that G&B jackets are cut large even for modern sizing... to get that trim WWII look, you will have to go down a size or two (possibly getting a Tall for adequate sleeve and body length). And frankly, I hope that they have changed the knit material since I got mine...

Anyway, I would vote for G&B if you want a modern A-2 jacket.

And I have said here countless times that US Authentic's goatskin model is the best buy if you want a semi-accurate WWII A-2. No, they don't compete with Good Wear, Eastman, etc. - or even G&B's Historical line - as "good" repros, but they are way closer to the old school than any modern-spec jacket. Their sizing is weird: trim, but long. If that would work for you, and you decide to go the WWII vs. modern A-2 route, their jackets are very worth considering.

 

[Tone]

Thanks for the additional info. Tone, that picture is the 1987 reissue, if I recall correctly from reading the original thread. It doesn't have the hand warmers or inner pockets, so it is supposedly a tighter fit. It would be nice to see a current issue zipped up on someone.

Yes it certainly would. From the sounds of it, specifically with the Cockpit A2, there are two versions that might fit differently among the two. Was wondering if the one really might look good on. Not body-hugging tight nor too bulgy at the same time.


Dr. Strange, thanks for that last bit on the US Authentic and Flightsuits A2 models. There probably is no point in seeing a pic of the new Cockpit A2 jacket. Looks like these Coopers, Avirex, U.S. Wings, still have a kind of common modern similarity to their design. Changes in the date of release, maybe, but no real changes to the pattern.

 

[Republic_Flier]

I am hoping to purchase a Cockpit Current Issue A-2 jacket this fall and I've been lurking here awhile, but never joined up with the ISP email dealio. So I know the majority of people here will instantly recommend me to buy some expensive Goodwear jacket that cost a couple hundred. I've made up my mind I don't want a WWII A2, but the more current model instead. Has anyone here been to the Cockpit store in NYC?

 

[Jeff M]

I am hoping to purchase a Cockpit Current Issue A-2 jacket this fall and I've been lurking here awhile, but never joined up with the ISP email dealio. So I know the majority of people here will instantly recommend me to buy some expensive Goodwear jacket that cost a couple hundred....

Couple of hundred?
Try 10 hundred. lol

 

[Tone]

You're bringing it right back into perspective, Republic_Flier. There does have to be some more reasonably priced jacket out there (modern, too) that offers a good pattern. Collecting authentic A2 repros is an understandable hobby; but, yes, some people do just want a decent looking A2 that can look good without costing $1000 in the process.

That US Authentic really does look good (asymmetrical pocket alignment off the stormflap bugs me; though it's hard to find a modern, less-expensive jacket that doesn't have that spacing) but the jacket itself looks pretty good overall.

 

[Republic_Flier]

The fit of a WWII A2 just doesn't appeal to me as it isn't that functional and that's why the modern jacket is looser-fitting as that's what the pilots want.

 

[Jeff M]

The fit of a WWII A2 just doesn't appeal to me as it isn't that functional and that's why the modern jacket is looser-fitting as that's what the pilots want.

True modern "A2's" have the same fit as the WWII ones. If they are true "A2" designs.

Sounds like what you want is something with a gusseted bi-swing back as in the Navy G1 model;

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/Navy+G-1/id/18/cat_id/18/prod_id/57/

...but without the mouton collar....like these from Gibson and Barnes;

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/AN-J-3+USAAF_USN/id/18/cat_id/18/prod_id/452/

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/F-82+Flight+Jacket/id/18/cat_id/18/prod_id/62/

 

[Silver Dollar]

I never really worried about the perfect fit of an A2. Like I mentioned in another thread, no matter what size I wear, it still looks goofy on me. I could wind up getting a custom made GW and it would still look goofy on me. I'm like the stocky ball turret gunner who's clothes always fit goofy. I used to say that there are some guys out there that can make a $50 dollar suit look like a $2000 dollar suit. I make a high quality Armani look like a $50 dollar suit.

 

[Tone]

Before it drifts into another, "GO Aeroleather!" pitch, and buzzwords like, "Premium leather", "quality craftsmanship", and "price increase" etc., start to take it off course and try to justify $1,000 for a jacket; the original topic was,

"Input on Quality and Fit of Less Expensive A-2 Jackets"

Does anyone have some of these models (owns them; has these models, in particular, for show) specifically?