Lost Worlds jackets.

[Robert C]

Greetings,

I new here and this is my first post, unfortunately it's not a happy post. I posted the below msg on the flight jacket forum at:

http://cornellsurgery.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1497


It seems the consensus is "Don't do business with Lost Worlds Inc" There's pictures on the forum of the poor quality merchandise I got ripped off for. Everyone on that forum seems to think this Stuart guy at LW is a.... well you read their comments. I'd like to know who else has had problems with this guy.

Below is my orignal post, you can go to the link to read the replies....

Greetings,

I'm a new guy here, after lurking for some time. On 12/22 I purchased a sale item A2 from Lost Worlds. After one wear the leather on the forearm began to split. The split starts at the elbow and crosses over the front of the forearm. Closer examination shows that where the jacket creases when being worn is where the splitting occurs.

At first the split appeared surfical and maybe an inch and a half long. I thought this to be initially a minor problem/imperfection.

Since Stuart does not allow returns on sale items or items that have been worn I figured what the heck, apply some neetsfoot oil to soften the leather and hopefully all will be OK. Needless to say, after three wearing the split is now over 7 inches long and much deeper.


I contacted Stuart and at first he said return it; if it's a cut he'll replace it, if it's the grain of the leather it's too bad. I told him about the neetsfoot oil and he said he definitely would not allow a return.

The lowest common denominator - faulty materials/workmanship! Irregardless that I put neetsfoot oil on, the leather shouldn't be splitting!! Stuart believes that faulty materials are not his problem and if I didn't like it, too bad. He said that's the nature of horsehide.

I told Stuart that I'd contact Paypal, his response: "Go ahead!!!, They'll see that I've never had a complaint before!!!" (Sure you've never had a problem before. READ: sarcasim)

I contacted Paypal (now I know why he doesn't take credit cards for sale purchases) and opened a dispute. I also contacted my credit card company concerning buyer protection.

My observations: He bad mouths the biggest segment of his market (I'm sure you've all seen his comments on his website), pumps up his product as if it were the best in the world (i.e. look what happened with my purchase), and has a "too bad, tough luck" attitude when there's problems. Not to mention that based on my observations, his product is grossly over priced.

Like he said - if the jacket was cut he'd replace it (can't do since I've "altered" the jacket by applying neetsfoot oil, said he could not resell then. Q: Why would you resell damaged goods?) If it's the grain of the leather, too bad, your loss!!!! I always thought the quality of materials was the mfg's responsibility.

Last year I bought a B-3 from US Authentic, I'm really happy with it. I also have a cloth B-10 on order from Aero Leather. I know where my business will go in the future, and Lost Worlds certainly isn't in my future. This guy should realize where he bread is buttered and stop being such a "you know what".

Let me see how the Gold Mastercard buyer protection and Paypal buyer protection works out. One of them should give me a refund. Hopefully it won't take too long.

Oh, one other thing - to prove I'm not a "shrill" for some other mfg, anyone who wants to can contact me offline to discuss my recent experience with Lost Worlds, feel free to do so. I'll even give you my phone number and we can talk!!!

Regards,
Robert Calandriello
Franklin, TN USA

PS - I'm also going to be posting this on "The Fedora Lounge" for you cross board users.

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[MudInYerEye]

Yet another incident to add to add to Stu's resume. I'm just amazed that this guy hasn't packed up ship and vanished into the woods yet. He's a unabomber waiting to happen.
Just read some of the diatribes on his site to get an idea how charming he is.

 

[ShanghaiJack]

Lost..

OK Revised Statute:
Friends Dont Let Friends Buy Avirex NOR Lost Worlds!

 

[Sefton]

wow, that is a really terrible experience! You're absolutely right..a defect in the material is most definitely the manufactuers responsibility. The fact that you put neetsfoot oil on the jacket is irrelevant. And of course, the fact that he as well as admitted he would resell defective materials is really sad. I'm sorry for you that you were treated so poorly. Thanks for giving a heads up about that guy. I have an A-2 from Aero and they are top notch in material and customer service...

Welcome to the Lounge by the way. Glad to have you here. Best regards, Sefton

 

[Harry Lime]

Unfortunate.

It's too bad you had a bad experience with a Lost Worlds product. However, you do note that it was a sale item and Stuart does not allow for returns on sale items which you knew when you purchased it. Yet, when it didn't seem that bad you chose to apply a fluid of your choosing to make it right and the condition got worse. I'm sorry but it's hard to fault him for not taking your jacket back under these circumstances regardless of what you think of him personally.

Buy anything under any terms, try to remedy a fix yourself with a self prescribed remedy and you take responsibility yourself. If your car wasn't starting properly, one that you bought from GM at a sale price, and you decided to "fix" the fuel injectors yourself and didn't get the result you intended - you nullified your warranty. Had you brought it back when the problem first surfaced, that's another story.

If you had a problem with your jacket you should have called Stuart from teh start and not tried to correct it yourself. You should have given the manufacturer the right to fix it without an bastardized fix of your own already in place.

Now you feel injured and claim no fault and feel no responsibility. You slander him and his company and his product on the internet and you fish for symapthy using some pretty low hanging fruit. I don't know about this one.

You read Stuart's post before you bought his product, you know what he's like. You thought you were getting a bargain so you threw out your views on him because you wanted his product. To now try to "expose" him as a bad guy for this without taking any responsibilities for your part in the fracas is bad form.

I doubt you have any luck with Paypal or your credit card company when these full terms are disclosed. You altered the product so the responsibility is at least half yours.

I have products from Aero, Lost Worlds, Buco, Schott, a ton of manufacturers. Stuart's stuff is as good as any of them. His politics and voice may not be for everyone but then if it isn't, don't buy his stuff to begin with. If you do and find it not to your liking then deal with him under terms of the sale, not "fixing" it yourself first. No manufacturer would respect this, not just him. If he doesn't honor a sale under his own terms you have a legitimate gripe. In this case you really don't.

Harry Lime

 

[MudInYerEye]

Harry Lime,
While I agree with your argument to some extent I think this fellow has a legit gripe here. Yes, Stuart does have a strict and clearly worded policy/disclaimer. But there's a huge difference between applying a coat of neetsfoot oil to a damaged area of leather on a jacket and attempting to fix fuel injectors oneself. Stuart advertises his sale products as first quality items so there should be no surprises with jackets recieved, especially with the hide itself, which Stuart touts to be the finest leather on Earth. Note that Stuart's reason stated for not accepting a return of the defective jacket is that he would not be able to re-sell it. Interesting. An admission of violating his own first quality policy?.
I can't imagine Aero, Real McCoy's, or Eastman (who all offer sale products) refusing to replace a jacket made with defectiver/damaged leather because a patch of neetsfoot oil (which generally regarded as being beneficial to leather) has been applied.
It's likely that the posts regarding this particular damaged jacket on this and the VLJ site will end up costing Stuart more green in potential sales than it would've for him to suck it up and either replace this fellow's jacket ro refund his money. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Policy or not, this is just plain bad business on Stuart's part.

 

[Robert C]

Lost Worlds

Harry,

Salander means telling lies or untruths about a someone. I not making any false statements, therefore I'm not slandering LW or Stu. Take a look at the flight jacket forum - this guy has got a long standing reputation for stunts like this. If I had know this before I wouldn't have given him my business.

Furthmore, this is a case of faulty materials. Like Stu said "If it's due to the grain of the horse hide it's too bad/tough luck for you". Basically that means I'll sell you faulty merchandise and not take a responsibilty for my product.

As far as his return policy, he is located in New York State. In NY it's the law that if you sell faulty merchandise/damaged goods you must give refunds for returned merchandise - no matter what your return policy is.

He has the Mastercard logo on his website yet directs people to use Paypal for the sale merchandise, saying he won't take Mastercard for sale items. This is against Mastercard merchant regulations. You cannot direct customers to other payment methods when you display the Mastercard logo at your store or on your website.

It comes down to the guys attitude and behavior. His quick to bad mouth the people that make up his largest market segment (in a vicious, malicious, and degrading manner no less), says anyone who things another mfg's product is better is a "shill", and touts how great his product is (even though my experience shows otherwise).

I also noticed the "man/manly" comments on his website (which I did not read before my purchase). He seems quick to question peoples manhood and with comments like "more soap mom". This only confirms his child-like and insecure psyche. After reading this on his website and speaking to him on the phone I've come to the conclusion that the guys got some serious problems that go beyond attitude and behavior.

As far as questioning or degrading people's manhood, he sould take a look at himself. What has he done that's so "manly". Well I grew up a tough kid in rough neigborhood. In early adolecents I boxed for Jersey City Recreation (got my ass kicked quite a few times but layed out a few too).I joind the Marines at 17 and spent 4 years as a grunt (MOS 0351) on both active duty and USMCR. I seriously doubt Stu done anything like this - if this is what he things manhood is.

Manhood is something very different. It's taking responsibilty for your actions, admiting fault when wrong, being a stand up person, taking charge for the welfare of your family, being a loving husband and father who nurtures his children, helping those that are in need, etc... This is what manhood is about. It's not some stupid notion of how tough you are, how much ass you kick, how much booze you drink, what sports you play, etc... I been there and done all that. I know the true meaning of manhood. Let me tell you, in my opinion Stuart Clurman is not man. It's real easy for him to hide behind his website and be rude to customers on the phone when they're 1000 miles away. In my honest opinion he is an insecure, egotistical, narcissistic, and sexually fustrated sorry excuse for a man. This is my opinion and therefore NOT slander.

I put these last few paragraphs in here since Harry Lime is so quick to defend Stu. Why would someone want to defend a guy like this???

Robert Calandriello

 

[Robert C]

Response for Harry Lime

One other thing Harry - what you state in you email is exactly what Stu said on the phone. In fact he used the same terminology, chronology, sentance patterns that you used. I'm new here and don't know who you are but you sure sound a real lot like Stu. Hmmm....

By the way - neetsfoot oil in not a "bastardization" of the product or a repair. It is nothing but a benign leather softener. It may cause a slight variation in leather color but hey - if the product is defective from the start this should make no difference.

Even if I did call him first he would not refund the money. As he stated: If the problem is due to the grain of the leather it's your (the consumer) problem!!! Again - the lowest common denominator is he sold faulty goods (he did not like the idea of the neetsfoot oil. said he couldn't resell the jacket then. why would you resell damaged goods???) and no matter what his return policy is, NY State law requires him to issue a refund on return of mechandise that is damaged/faulty from mfg. The consumer law is very straight forward about this.

He violates the following: NY consumer law, Mastercard merchant rules, and his customers who receive faulty merchandise.

Robert Calandriello

 

[Robert C]

Harry

Don't get my statement in the previous post wrong. I'm not trying to say you're someone using a phoney name to post. I just thought that it was a real odd coincidence between what said and how it was stated stated your post. This is almost exactly the argument LW used....

Robert

 

[Robert C]

One more thing for Harry

As far as the folliowing comments you made:

Now you feel injured and claim no fault and feel no responsibility. You slander him and his company and his product on the internet and you fish for symapthy using some pretty low hanging fruit. I don't know about this one.

You read Stuart's post before you bought his product, you know what he's like. You thought you were getting a bargain so you threw out your views on him because you wanted his product. To now try to "expose" him as a bad guy for this without taking any responsibilities for your part in the fracas is​

bad form.

1. faulty material is not my fault

2. I addressed the slander issue in my previous posts. No slander took place

3. I don't fish for sympathy. I'n new to these forums and I'm only telling those that don't know why the should take their business elsewhere and confimring for those that know.

4. I did not know what kind of person he was before I brought the jacket. I may have lurked a few times on this board on the vintage jacket board but had no idea or clue about Stu['s behavior. What I did read on his website was how his jackets were made and why his product was the best. For example, I didn't even know Aero existed until after I brought the jacket. The only high end mfgs I knew of was LW, HPA, and US Authentic. My purpose of snooping on the boards was only to look for photos of other's jackets, not to critique mfgs. (that's my fault - like I said, if I knew about ris rep I would have went to HPA or US Auth).

5. When I spoke to him on the phone about purchasing a jacket he was very pleasant and curtious. It was only when there was a problem that his true self came out.

6. As far as exposing him, he is what is is, and I'm doing nothing other than telling other about my experience.

7. Your comment about "taking responsibility for my part of the fracs". Well I'm not responsible for faulty materials, sold as new. Even if I did not put neetsfoot oil on the jacket he would not issue a refund. REMINDER: IF THE PROBLEM IS THE GRAIN OF THE LEATHER IT'S TOO BAD FOR YOU, YOU'RE STUCK FOR IT.

:rage:

 

[Harry Lime]

Uh, no...

I'm not Stuart Clurman. I think if Staurt Clurman cared to post he'd probably do it using his own real name.

I think if you start a "manliness" discussion you're in danger of hijacking your own thread. Such a topic would be a thread you could start in The Observation Bar.

I'm not Stuart Clurman. I just don't fully agree with you. I'm...

Harry Lime

 

[Robert C]

This Is Not A Manlyness Discussion

Harry,

I'm not trying to start a manlyness disucssion. I'm just pointing out what this guys says on his web is nothing other than a confirmation of how inscure/messed up this freakazoid is....


Robert Calandriello

 

[PADDY]

A journey into Lost Worlds...

Firstly Gentlemen, a Happy New Year to you all! :cheers1:

Sadly, once in a while things do go 'tits up' (as the RAF flyers of old would say), and sometimes it's just nobody's fault. It just happens.

However...What is in the control of us mortals, is 'how' we work around the problem after it happens and importantly for jacket manufacturers/seller, how they work with the customer to turn a bad experience into a good one.

I can only speak for myself here guys and go on the information that has been kindly shared in this thread.

But if I buy a jacket from a company and it has a defect that wasn't pointed out to me beforehand and it then breaks in some way just after I've got it, then I'd expect the seller 'to be reasonable' use his common sense and some sound judgement and replace the jacket or give a refund...

(I know there was a LW disclaimer that no sale items would be returned, but...we are not talking about the buyer then deciding it doesn't suit him or his hair style!, the thing broke within an unreasonable period of time and was therefore faulty).

Good customer service is a big deciding factor on who any of us will return to, to spend our hard earned money with. Also, it determines whether we start a good PR/Marketing service for the company by telling our friends and family when they want to get something!

Or in this case, we are not happy and warn our friends to 'stay clear,' as has happened here. Bearing in mind that we have just short of 1000 members now, can manufacturers/sellers afford to court overly bad publicity? (especially in a specialist market such as vintage leather jackets).

The biggest loser in this thread seems to be Mr Stu, as I dare say many of you guys will think twice about going to LW when buying a vintage flight jacket, having read the thread.

I have no doubt that 'good customer service' probably would have avoided this and we might have been reading a thread about how a jacket split but LW bent over backwards to help the customer out with another jacket and therefore LW are just the 'bee's knees' to deal with! We'd be queueing up at LW's door!

Good customer service is an investment for a company and to ignore that is to do so 'at your peril.' Let's face it, we are all potential customers for all the good flight jacket companies out there.

I'm really sorry to hear of your poor experience with a jacket manufacturer, but all you guys out there, don't forget to also praise those who do go the extra mile to help us get the best vintage styled jacket we can!

 

[bgbdesign]

Here is the damaged area of the jacket in question

 

[shamus]

that looks like a knife cut. How did you open your box?

 

[SHARPETOYS]

No excuse

I think I know this sellers evil twin . He sells hats. I know for sure I will never buy from them even if it was almost free.

 

[Robert C]

Childs Scissors

Opened box with my eight year olds safety scissors. And no, I not kidding....
Rob

 

[PADDY]

Message loud and clear.

The point of poor customer service comes across very clearly here and that's one nasty gash in the leather (shown in the pics), which you would hope a seller would recognise and honour the customer for the fault/break with a non-faulty jacket.

From what's been said, this hasn't happened and I'm sure you've let LW know of your displeasure and highlighted your concerns over the leather.

As said before, in such a specialist market place (vintage leather jackets), sellers who refuse to offer good customer service do so at their peril, as we are all potential customers for them to tap into.

No doubt, when we all consider our next vintage flight jacket, we will all take into account the good things and not so good things reported on the jacket manufacturers in this room and elsewhere and make our own informed and balanced decision.

 

[John Lever]

Lost Worlds B2

Well it finally arrived and despite the duty of ?Ǭ£138 it was worth it.
What can I say other than I am dumbfounded by the quality this jacket oozes.
Leather:
Russet brown 4 oz. horsehide. This stuff will probably stop a bullet. It smells good but not so it's overpowering. The surface has medium shine and some grain.
Lining:
Brown/beige alpaca. This is warm and not at all itchy. The colour goes very well woth the outer.
Cut/Style:
This jacket is comfortable to wear and is very stylish. The closest comparison would be to an Irvin both in shape and length especially as it has a belt. The single patch pocket is a Knockout. The collar completely encloses my head almost like a sawn-off hood !
Value:
Worth every penny. Totally unique, you'll never see another one.
Construction:
The stitching is uniform and even to perfection all over. I can't imagine what it's like to sew this stuff. One slip and it's goodbye finger
Comments:
The leather is so strong and inflexible at the moment that it's almost impossible to close any of the buttons or snaps. I have some problems getting the zip to start.

Verdict:
Buy one !
John

 

[PADDY]

Good to see...

Hi John, and welcome aboard from the VLJ-III room! John, it's good to see some positive words on Lost Worlds and credit where it's due. Glad you love your jacket and hope you are getting suitable weather to put it through its paces and break it in!!