Christmas without Christ? Huh?

[HepKitty]

honestly I don't know anyone who celebrates the solstice and *doesn't* realize that since way far back it was and for some still is a religious holiday. but maybe I'm just lucky to have educated friends of all religions and none at all, and we all wish each other well on each others' holidays. and celebrate with each other might be a good idea to educate those not already in the know, have you commented on the post yet?

as for shutting the country down on any religious day, it should be scrapped. separation of church and state was one of the main points of declaring independence from Britain, and we won't have that as long as the government shows preference to any holiday of any religion. represent all, or represent none. otherwise separation of church and state and freedom of religion are nothing but jokes

 

[sheeplady]

honestly I don't know anyone who celebrates the solstice and *doesn't* realize that since way far back it was and for some still is a religious holiday. but maybe I'm just lucky to have educated friends of all religions and none at all, and we all wish each other well on each others' holidays. and celebrate with each other

While I have met many people who are interested in learning, I've met very few people around here who know that people still celebrate the solstice in a religious day- although most people know it was "once" someone's holiday. It was different when I lived in a more culturally diverse area, but that was also a place where practicing paganism openly (like in the park) was much more socially acceptable than here. Most who do know about the solstice where I live now, I've found, have pagan friends or are pagans themselves.

This is a totally separate comment, but I have to say that I've got to wonder about how atheists are presented in the media. I've met a several atheists and they are some of the most respectful (and well-versed in religion) individuals I have ever met. I don't know if it's just the "bad apples" of the atheists rising to the top and getting media time or if the media is twisting these individuals' beliefs and image to sell press or if it is some of both. I've met people who have fought against things like religious displays on public property and they have never been rude about their beliefs or towards others' beliefs, just very matter of fact.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Militants, of any sort, are usually jerks. It goes with the territory. And it's militants who get all the attention.

 

[ButteMT61]

honestly I don't know anyone who celebrates the solstice and *doesn't* realize that since way far back it was and for some still is a religious holiday. but maybe I'm just lucky to have educated friends of all religions and none at all, and we all wish each other well on each others' holidays. and celebrate with each other might be a good idea to educate those not already in the know, have you commented on the post yet?...

Interesting you said this to me:

there is life beyond your circle of friends and family...

Yet you say "honestly I don't know anyone who celebrates the solstice and *doesn't* realize that since way far back it was and for some still is a religious holiday...."
Hmm. Interesting.

All of our experiences are based on our lives. You said the same thing I did in essence.

 

[Undertow]

...as for shutting the country down on any religious day, it should be scrapped. separation of church and state was one of the main points of declaring independence from Britain, and we won't have that as long as the government shows preference to any holiday of any religion. represent all, or represent none. otherwise separation of church and state and freedom of religion are nothing but jokes

Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment by saying that the holiday shut-down is not universal in every industry and certainly not always religious in nature.

Many employers, such as grocery stores, taxicabs, airlines, and even the self-employed, run 24/7 regardless of the holidays. As a rule, private industries may shut down any day they like, or stay open as they see fit (or in other words, no need for separation of church-state).

On the other hand, I understand you're also referring to federal/state positions. I would argue that, likewise, these national holidays are more or less a secular precedent which is followed because that's the way it has always been since anyone alive can remember.

One can attach whatever name they want to this "holiday" vacation, but anymore, it's just another day off from work. Sure, it may have originated as a Christmas holiday (and therefore religious), but even Christmas in its current form is relatively secular.

 

[Mr. Hallack]

Militants, of any sort, are usually jerks. It goes with the territory. And it's militants who get all the attention.

EXACTLY!! And sadly the media portrays as THE representatives of whatever group they are part of.

 

[Edward]

While I have met many people who are interested in learning, I've met very few people around here who know that people still celebrate the solstice in a religious day- although most people know it was "once" someone's holiday. It was different when I lived in a more culturally diverse area, but that was also a place where practicing paganism openly (like in the park) was much more socially acceptable than here. Most who do know about the solstice where I live now, I've found, have pagan friends or are pagans themselves.

This is a totally separate comment, but I have to say that I've got to wonder about how atheists are presented in the media. I've met a several atheists and they are some of the most respectful (and well-versed in religion) individuals I have ever met. I don't know if it's just the "bad apples" of the atheists rising to the top and getting media time or if the media is twisting these individuals' beliefs and image to sell press or if it is some of both. I've met people who have fought against things like religious displays on public property and they have never been rude about their beliefs or towards others' beliefs, just very matter of fact.

I'm inclined to cut them a break, based not only on personal experience but also on seeing the way we of the Christian faith community are typically portrayed in the media. Just as we're not all Fred Phelps, I'm very willing to believe that not all atheists are Richard Dawkins.

 

[HepKitty]

Interesting you said this to me:

there is life beyond your circle of friends and family...

Yet you say "honestly I don't know anyone who celebrates the solstice and *doesn't* realize that since way far back it was and for some still is a religious holiday...."
Hmm. Interesting.

All of our experiences are based on our lives. You said the same thing I did in essence.

and I choose to look at both sides and not just see things from my own personal experience. maybe because I've lived overseas and learned to look through others' eyes. as for the company I keep, disrespectful and unkind are not kept around

 

[HepKitty]

I'm inclined to cut them a break, based not only on personal experience but also on seeing the way we of the Christian faith community are typically portrayed in the media. Just as we're not all Fred Phelps, I'm very willing to believe that not all atheists are Richard Dawkins.

an atheist friend in TX runs a program to help the homeless, but since he's not insulting and obnoxious and in everyone's faces I doubt he gets much publicity

and thankfully not all Christians are like Harold Camping, not all Muslims are terrorists nor do they believe in any sort of violence, and pagans don't worship satan because they don't believe in him in the first place... the sad part is in trying to educate and show not all examples are bad examples is that some people just aren't interested. what can you do? [huh]

 

[rue]

I choose to know that you can't change a persons mind once it's made up. You know people will go round and round talking about politics, religion and all sorts of similar topics, but if that person really believes something it doesn't matter what your argument is. I think the wisest people are the ones that know this.

Case in point.... a family friend is a Jehovah Witness and not once has she ever preached to us about her beliefs, because she knows that we are firm believers in Christianity.


I will still say "Merry Christmas" to people I come across no matter what anyone says, because that is what I celebrate and it's Christmas time. If someone said "Happy Hanukah (or insert whatever they celebrate here)" I would just say "same to you" [huh]

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I choose to know that you can't change a persons mind once it's made up. You know people will go round and round talking about politics, religion and all sorts of similar topics, but if that person really believes something it doesn't matter what your argument is. I think the wisest people are the ones that know this.

Case in point.... a family friend is a Jehovah Witness and not once has she ever preached to us about her beliefs, because she knows that we are firm believers in Christianity.


I will still say "Merry Christmas" to people I come across no matter what anyone says, because that is what I celebrate and it's Christmas time. If someone said "Happy Hanukah (or insert whatever they celebrate here)" I would just say "same to you" [huh]

Good post rue.

 

[HepKitty]

Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment by saying that the holiday shut-down is not universal in every industry and certainly not always religious in nature.

Many employers, such as grocery stores, taxicabs, airlines, and even the self-employed, run 24/7 regardless of the holidays. As a rule, private industries may shut down any day they like, or stay open as they see fit (or in other words, no need for separation of church-state).

On the other hand, I understand you're also referring to federal/state positions. I would argue that, likewise, these national holidays are more or less a secular precedent which is followed because that's the way it has always been since anyone alive can remember.

One can attach whatever name they want to this "holiday" vacation, but anymore, it's just another day off from work. Sure, it may have originated as a Christmas holiday (and therefore religious), but even Christmas in its current form is relatively secular.

well sure, because Capitalism must go on

I still like Lizzie's idea best

 

[PoohBang]

I've stayed out of this one.

Rue, you may want to reword your last comment... At least the first paragraph.

 

[Edward]

an atheist friend in TX runs a program to help the homeless, but since he's not insulting and obnoxious and in everyone's faces I doubt he gets much publicity

and thankfully not all Christians are like Harold Camping, not all Muslims are terrorists nor do they believe in any sort of violence, and pagans don't worship satan because they don't believe in him in the first place... the sad part is in trying to educate and show not all examples are bad examples is that some people just aren't interested. what can you do? [huh]

That's about the size of it. Some of the Muslim kids I teach (the ones that look obviously Muslim in their dress) nowadays experience what I used to back in the Eighties and Nineties in England - getting followed round shops because they are perceived as "possible terrorists". All the world needs is a little mutual respect.... somebody gotta crack first and offer it, though. That's usually part of the problem....

 

[kamikat]

I will still say "Merry Christmas" to people I come across no matter what anyone says, because that is what I celebrate and it's Christmas time. If someone said "Happy Hanukah (or insert whatever they celebrate here)" I would just say "same to you" [huh]

That's just common courtesy. Over the summer and fall, I participate with a CSA (community supported agriculture) that is based at a Jewish Synagogue. Most of the members of the CSA are also members of the congregation. It's not unusual to be greeted with various holiday salutations when picking up my farm share, for Rosh Hashanna, Yom Kippur, ect. I don't celebrate those holidays but I appreciate the kindness and they appreciate the kindness being reciprocated.

 

[ButteMT61]

I will still say "Merry Christmas" to people I come across no matter what anyone says, because that is what I celebrate and it's Christmas time. If someone said "Happy Hanukah (or insert whatever they celebrate here)" I would just say "same to you"

There ya have it! Wouldn't things be great if that's all someone did in return? May you all have quid pro quo Holiday!

 

[Warden]

I'm gonna get flamed for this but....

Christmas without Christ is a day off from work, traditionally spent with family / friends

Christmas with Christ, well its the reason for the whole day.

For the record I am in the latter camp.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm gonna get flamed for this but....

For stating an opinion? Not around here -- this has been a remarkably respectful thread, all told, given the diversity of opinions expressed.

As for me, I've never had Christmas off in my working life. Radio stations and theatres are always open on Christmas, so that's where you'll always find me when the rest of the world is celebrating -- I always make sure that any of the staff who needs the day off has it, though, and if necessary I work in their place. (And I don't even say "if I were to stop your wages half-a-crown you'd think yourself ill used..." Well, actually I *do* say that but they know I'm joking.)

 

[dhermann1]

While we're on the subject of people who work on the holidays, I'd like to mention here that living in New York City (the city that never sleeps, altho it does sometimes take a little nap), I always appreciate those individuals who keep our train and bus systems running 24/7/365, and all other similar services, and I always make sure that I express my appreciation to them on those days. And I think they definitely appreciate the appreciation.

 

[ButteMT61]

I've stayed out of this one.

NO you didn't lol