The Dance Snob

Matt Deckard · Apr 20, 2006

Too many times have I seen the girl sitting on the sidelines waiting for a dance while the guys dance with those with which they are used to dancing, or those who they have seen are better dancers.

It kills the establishment. Regardless of how good a dancer you are, limiting yourself to those that you think are at your leval or above leaves many many ladies who wish to be part of the rest, swaying on the floor, left in a lurch of dispair.

I know competition dancers that don't want to taint their steps by lowering their standards to dance with a newbie, though if they don't dance with the newbies, how will the newbies improve? The problem I see is widespread. It's snobbery and it is a detriment to the scene.

Ask those girls to dance!

Just an observation and a request to the other guys who, as I, like to dance.

AtomicBlonde · Apr 20, 2006

Thank you!!!

Thanks Matt! I'm a new dancer, and I hate it when the really good folks wont ask me to dance!

I end up having to dance with someone equally as bad as me, then I dont learn anything! Occasionaly a nice fellow with dance experience such as yourself will ask me to dance and give me tips and pointers.

Thank you, Matt, for being a gentleman.

-Jess

PrettyBigGuy · Apr 20, 2006

I never understood this either. That's why I used to do the opposite! Long after I considered myself a beginner I used to go to the beginner East Coast lessons at the Derby. Not because I thought that I needed more lessons, but because the classes were so crowded, the instructors couldn't possibly give attention to everyone. The way I saw it, the more ladies that knew how to dance, the more potential partners I'd have. This paid off because after the lessons were over and the band struck up, these same ladies were always looking for some extra practice! One of these ladies is now my wife!

PBG

mysterygal · Apr 20, 2006

Being a beginner as well, that would be awful to be snubbed. It seems the only way to get better is to have a skilled dancer 'fine tune you' Thanks Matt for posting it

Vanessa · Apr 20, 2006

Being a new dancer, as well, this is what sets me off: Several times I've been asked to dance by obviously good leads (or at least, they think so

) and when told I don't know their particular dance of choice (in this case, lindy), they give this look of forced resignation and go, 'well, I guess we can do 6-count, but you should really learn lindy.'
Gee, thanks, mister. I'm sure we're going to have a great time now.

mysterygal · Apr 20, 2006

that is just rude! for me, the whole point of dancing is to enjoy yourself. I'm really hoping at the QM there'll be some nice gentlemen out there who doesn't mind dancing with a newbie!

Matt Deckard · Apr 20, 2006

The best dancers are the ones that have the most fun!

I may critique here and there (I shouldn't at times), though only on things I think will make the dancer follow better (I try to correct noodle arm), though I never want the individual to feel as though the way they learned is wrong... it's about hitting the floor and strutting your stuff!

If one knows not the step I do I do the step she knows. Otherwise nobody has fun and the dance is awkward!

Hell, I have more fun at times coaxing girls that have never danced onto the floor and going over the basics! If she's smiling, I'm smiling!

Vanessa · Apr 20, 2006

I apologize in advance for my rant.

mysterygal said:
for me, the whole point of dancing is to enjoy yourself.

Exactly! This is another sticking point for me. Dancing is fun, right? You're not out there because you have to be, because you were told to be - you're there because you want to be. You want to have fun, to dance close with someone, to kick up your heels a bit and forget the daily grind of your life. So for gosh sake, smile! Look like you're having a good time - maybe you actually will. There seems to be an epidemic of dancers who are on the floor concentrating so incredibly hard about hitting each step just right, counting them out perfectly - what complicated move can we do next to impress people?
To them I say, in the wise words of a 10 year old cartoon character, "Don't have a cow, man."

AtomicBlonde · Apr 20, 2006

You know what else burns my hiney? And, I think it goes directly with what Matt was just saying about dancing to your partners level. When I do get asked to dance by someone of greater experience, I always let them know what I can do as we're walking to the floor, that way they dont throw anything *too* nuts in there to get me all futzed. Sometimes, I get with a very nice guy who dances at my level, gives me pointers, tells me when I'm doing something wrong, etc. On occasion, I get with a guy who dances circles around me, making me feel quite dizzy, confused, and rather inadequate. I almost feel like those guys are dancing to show off, and arent really helpful at all! I danced with a very nice gentleman at the DC Lindy exchange a couple weeks ago who said to me "a good dancer should always make YOU look good, no matter your level"

Too bad there arent more guys like him and Matt out there!

-Jess

Paisley · Apr 20, 2006

Amen.

When my best friend, a newbie swing dancer, called and told me that guys just kept walking right past her without asking her to dance, I knew exactly where she was sitting--on the side of the room where the elitists sit. (Don't they realize what a prickly vibe they give off? Or maybe that's what they intend.) The opposite side of the room has a completely different atmosphere.

Speaking of lindy exchanges, I had the same experience as my friend at the Denver Lindy Exchange a few years ago when I was a newbie. I paid over $50 and had ONE DANCE. I realize it's OK for girls to ask guys to dance...but it's not my nature to chase men, and at the end of the day, I don't always have to mental energy to do so.

My strategies now are to (1) ask guys to dance if I feel like it (2) just ask the nearest guy to dance (3) don't go to dances with a big cover charge (4) just go home if I'm having a lousy time.

PrettyBigGuy · Apr 20, 2006

AtomicBlonde said:
I almost feel like those guys are dancing to show off, and arent really helpful at all! I danced with a very nice gentleman at the DC Lindy exchange a couple weeks ago who said to me "a good dancer should always make YOU look good, no matter your level"

Too bad there arent more guys like him and Matt out there!

-Jess

I've seen way too many guys who do that. In fact a buddy of mine and I used to always see a guy, who we nicknamed "Elwood" because he was a skinny guy who always wore a black suit and fedora, that was so into his dancing that he didn't even look at his partner! These poor gals couldn't follow his lead because he was being too showy.
In regards to your comment about a good dancer should always make YOU look good, you are absolutely right. Guys need to understand that when they are on the dance floor NOBODY is looking at THEM, they're looking at their gal! I would often give little bits of criticism, like Matt said, "noodle arms" from time to time and at first most ladies would take offense. After the see how much crisper their turns can be, and how much more fun it is, there's no more complaints! Dang, I gotta find a place that has a weekend swing night here in Chicagoland!
PBG

BettyValentine · Apr 20, 2006

This is apparently a big problem in NY, from my very limited experience. My friends who used to dance in college went out to try to dance here a few times, but they don't go anymore because they encountered a horrible pack of "Lindy Snobs."

One of my friends was even on a first date with a girl who wanted to go dancing, and he had enjoyed dancing pretty regularly in college so he thought it would be great. Once they got to the club she nitpicked his dancing, told him not to do certain moves because her Lindy friends would see her doing "Lamer Noob moves", and then sat down and said she was too tired to dance and just mocked people who were dancing "badly". Then another guy showed up and she was like, "Oh! X is here! I love X, he's the best dancer here! I've been waiting all night to dance with him!"
Then she left her date at the table and spent the rest of the night dancing with the new fellow.

Now we all just go to bars without dancing. Le sigh.
xoxo,
BV

BigJohnSpecial · Apr 20, 2006

I go to have fun, not to give a free dance lesson or to get my feet stepped on or deal with unpleasant personalities. I have a right to choice my friends and dance partners.
Back when I was dancing more often, the beginners usually went early, the experienced later in the evening. During the overlap, I would ask a few new ladies. I've even been known to take one with potential under my wing, but I needed to practice what I was learning too. I don't want to spend the whole night dumbing it down.
I'm always amazed by how many vintage-looking people wander into a swing night not knowing a thing about early big band music or the original dancers. One reason I've stopped going was the clueless gals with no rhythm who would try to strike up conversations with me. I'd mention Savoy, Shorty George, Whitey's and get a blank expression in reply. It was frustrating. I always wonder what motivates some people to show up if they have no interest in the history? Is it the cool hats or the pretty dresses? At times I flat-out ask "Why are you even here?"

Matt Deckard · Apr 20, 2006

The dance is the dance, you don't have to know the history to appreciate the steps and the beat!

Marc Chevalier · Apr 20, 2006

BigJohnSpecial said:
I go to have fun, not to give a free dance lesson or to get my feet stepped on or deal with unpleasant personalities. I have a right to choice my friends and dance partners.

I agree. And what about those inexperienced MALE dancers?

AtomicBlonde said:
I end up having to dance with someone equally as bad as me, then I don't learn anything!

This is the point of view I'm talking about. If inexperienced female dancers don't want to dance with them, where are these men going to find partners? Should experienced female dancers be expected to dance with the inexperienced guys?

.

Marc Chevalier · Apr 20, 2006

Paisley said:
I realize it's OK for girls to ask guys to dance...but it's not my nature to chase men, and at the end of the day, I don't always have to mental energy to do so.

Asking a man to dance at a swing dance is hardly chasing him.

Paisley said:
My strategies now are to (1) ask guys to dance if I feel like it (2) just ask the nearest guy to dance (3) don't go to dances with a big cover charge (4) just go home if I'm having a lousy time.

Those sound like excellent strategies, Paisley. I'll bet they lead to good results.

Tin Pan Sally · Apr 20, 2006

Dang SWING SNOBS!

Asking guys is expected. It was extremely hard for me to accept that. A dance is not a come on, it's a platonic social thing. it doesn't lead to romance (usually). It is just like a conversation at a cocktail party; have a dance, move on to another, circulate.
BJS, it may be disappointing, but not everyone was raised on it like you and I. I wish you would just come out and have fun. No one needs lessons in fun, do they? lol I know for a fact that you danced with silly newbies, because I'm one of them!

Paisley · Apr 20, 2006

Yes, I know that asking for a dance isn't a come-on. I meant that I am not a gadfly, and walking up to strangers and asking for a dance, as simple as that sounds, sometimes takes more wherewithal than I have after a day at work.

I can appreciate wanting to dance with great dancers and not wanting those inevitable mishaps with beginners. But even more, I appreciate those wonderful guys who regularly asked me to dance when I was a beginner. They put up with my lack of skill and mishaps. (Twice, with a certain partner, my right hand ended up in his shirt pocket. To this day, I cannot account for how this happened. He took it in stride.) They told me I was doing well.

That was four years and many classes ago. My old partners and I still dance together, and I dance with newbies as well. The challenge of following them and the unexpected things they do make it interesting, and usually fun. As for the guys who passed me over in the beginning, I wouldn't refuse a dance with them, but they don't seek my company and I don't seek theirs. Both spiritually and strategically, I prefer the practice of giving newbies a chance.

Marc Chevalier · Apr 20, 2006

Paisley said:
... walking up to strangers and asking for a dance, as simple as that sounds, sometimes takes more wherewithal than I have after a day at work.

What kind of work do you do, Paisley?

Tin Pan Sally · Apr 20, 2006

Paisley said:
Yes, I know that asking for a dance isn't a come-on. I meant that I am not a gadfly, and walking up to strangers and asking for a dance, as simple as that sounds, sometimes takes more wherewithal than I have after a day at work.

I'm the same way.
I really thought at first that men were expressing interest in me when they asked me to dance. Until someone pointed out to me that everyone just dances with everyone.

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