I'm stuck in the 80s...automotively

Pilgrim · May 25, 2010

I would suppose they're torn because they have a specific group of buyers, but not enough to justify keeping that style of car in production. Law enforcement and the declining number of people who like full size cars just aren't enough to keep the series going. Big families used to buy Queen Family Truckster station wagons (think National Lampoon Vacation), but now they buy minivans.

And for that matter, law enforcement does NOT need body on frame cars for their use - they need durability, handling and interior capacity, all of which can be achieved with unibody construction.

Body on frame construction has advantages, but it also has disadvantages including weight. EPA directives are part of what's driving this...the fleet MPG averge has to keep going up.

You're going to see a lot more trucks with V6 engines (although more powerful V6's than we've ever seen before - the new Mustang V6 is about 330 HP!) and similar changes in engine size across most lines.

I'm not nostalgic for these lines of cars - they are plain vanilla and don't have the style of the large cars of years past. My eye slides off them like it does off a 1995 Taurus (eeeeg),

AtomicEraTom · May 25, 2010

I agree. If there were more options I think you'd see improved Crown Vic/Grand Marquis sales. I love my Crown Vic, I've had one before, and I'd gladly buy another one in a heartbeat.

David Conwill said:
That's the last body-on-frame passenger car being produced, isn't it? Too bad. American manufacturers do best when they stick to American cars, IMO.

Instead of ending production, they should expand the lineup to include a coupe, a couple wagons, and a convertible. Maybe make that all Mercury produces.

I wish I could buy one brand new before production ends.

-Dave

davestlouis · May 25, 2010

I dunno what we're going to do for hearses in the future...the Cadillac DTS is going bye-bye too. I suspect the day is coming when hearses are truck/SUV based. I guess an Escalade could be gussied-up and be used as a hearse...

We use Sayers and Scovill Lincolns at the moment, all 2005-2008 models.

AtomicEraTom · May 26, 2010

You know, I always just thought there was a demand for these kinds of cars, either it's dwindling and I don't see it, or the auto industry just doesn't get it. I see tons of Rear-Drive V8 type 'boats' which are only about a mid size when compared to their 70's counterparts. Frankly, I'd buy a bigger car if they made one.

I have a friend who almost always drives Civics, and they're uncomfortable, small, have little room, and feel unsafe. I've always had 4-door, rear-drive V8 cars and have always felt safe and like I was floating down the road and could haul plenty in them.

I got hit in my 1960 Chevy Bel-Air by a 2003 Chevy TrailBlazer. No airbags, no seatbelts, my car spun about 4 times, went over a curb, the car was still running and I was just fine.

davestlouis said:
I dunno what we're going to do for hearses in the future...the Cadillac DTS is going bye-bye too. I suspect the day is coming when hearses are truck/SUV based. I guess an Escalade could be gussied-up and be used as a hearse...

We use Sayers and Scovill Lincolns at the moment, all 2005-2008 models.

Geesie · May 26, 2010

AtomicEraTom said:
You know, I always just thought there was a demand for these kinds of cars, either it's dwindling and I don't see it, or the auto industry just doesn't get it. I see tons of Rear-Drive V8 type 'boats' which are only about a mid size when compared to their 70's counterparts. Frankly, I'd buy a bigger car if they made one.

I have a friend who almost always drives Civics, and they're uncomfortable, small, have little room, and feel unsafe. I've always had 4-door, rear-drive V8 cars and have always felt safe and like I was floating down the road and could haul plenty in them.

I got hit in my 1960 Chevy Bel-Air by a 2003 Chevy TrailBlazer. No airbags, no seatbelts, my car spun about 4 times, went over a curb, the car was still running and I was just fine.

Problem is, I think, related to another complaint around here about people not dressing nicely.
In most of the 20th century, up until the 80s, a big car was a status symbol. Then it became "what old people drive" and people are terrified of looking like old people - even as they age.

Me? I'd love to have a nice 1st-3rd gen Riviera or a Fleetwood... I'm happy with my Regal, though. For now.

AtomicEraTom · May 26, 2010

I think you've hit the nail right on the head there. I get compared to an old man all the time. I drive big cars, I dress nice, have manners, and my apartment's full of old stuff. I'm always told I'm the youngest old guy they know.

I've been trying to get a Fleetwood for years. Could never have one when I lived at home. Dad barely let my 79 Electra slide, because it's too much of a 'Ghetto Cruiser'. Guess not everyone thinks they're old people cars

Geesie said:
Problem is, I think, related to another complaint around here about people not dressing nicely.
In most of the 20th century, up until the 80s, a big car was a status symbol. Then it became "what old people drive" and people are terrified of looking like old people - even as they age.

Me? I'd love to have a nice 1st-3rd gen Riviera or a Fleetwood... I'm happy with my Regal, though. For now.

davestlouis · May 27, 2010

A car dealer friend of mine used to say
"You can sell an old man a young man's car, but you can't sell a young man an old man's car"

Apparently there are exceptions to that rule...

Diamondback · May 27, 2010

Oh, yeah, there are exceptions... make mine an '86 Crown Vic, Men In Black edition, as a stepping-stone up to the Firebird builds.

Now let's see, what all could be fun to retrofit onto an MIB-inspired LTD conversion? The trunk-gunrack's already a given...

Chainsaw · May 27, 2010

Geesie said:
My car:

1984 Buick Regal. I feel more relaxed when I drive it because I know that no matter how much of a hurry I'm in, I can't go any faster anyway!

Ha, ha, I have an 87' or is it an 86'? She doesn't look that pretty though. I got a pair of 2000 Dodge Rams, almost payed for. So she might be sitting for a while.

One of my Buddy's scored an awesome Lincoln Town car a couple of years ago. The owner was a snow bird (someone who spends their winters in Florida) so it was never winter driven. It is absolutely immaculate.

I love a vehicle that drives like a truck.

Chainsaw · May 27, 2010

P.s. Unibodies are breeding grounds for cancer.

Geesie · May 27, 2010

Chainsaw said:
Ha, ha, I have an 87' or is it an 86'? She doesn't look that pretty though.

I tell people I've got a 20-footer. It looks better when you're at least 20 feet away. Up close you can tell that it was a cheap spray job to cover some rust problems.

Professor · May 27, 2010

Chainsaw said:
I love a vehicle that drives like a truck.

Shi...I drive a truck for work, give me a Buick any day.

davestlouis · May 27, 2010

I'm not a truck guy...it's nice to have access to one, but I hate driving them everyday...same for SUVs. I like sedans where I can sit up and see all around me, preferably in a comfy leather throne. I have started the search for a 2nd/backup car, in case the Audi croaks, so I won't have to scramble like I did on this purchase...I'm thinking late 80s-early 90s Volvo 740 wagon, non-turbo 4 cylinder.

davestlouis · May 27, 2010

Geesie, I've wound up dating a few "20-footers"...she looked OK in the bar, but in daylight, lord ha' mercy, had a head like a catfight!

Professor · May 27, 2010

davestlouis said:
Geesie, I've wound up dating a few "20-footers"...she looked OK in the bar, but in daylight, lord ha' mercy, had a head like a catfight!

lol

AtomicEraTom · May 27, 2010

There certainly are, Mine's a grandpa car inside and out

davestlouis said:
A car dealer friend of mine used to say
"You can sell an old man a young man's car, but you can't sell a young man an old man's car"

Apparently there are exceptions to that rule...

Flivver · May 27, 2010

AtomicEraTom said:
I agree. If there were more options I think you'd see improved Crown Vic/Grand Marquis sales. I love my Crown Vic, I've had one before, and I'd gladly buy another one in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately what finally killed the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis was 2012 DOT rollover regs. Ford did not want to make the investment in such an old platform.

Body on frame construction is preferred by the police because BOF cars are still repairable after the bump manouvers the police use to spin a perp's vehicle. Unibody cars are often a total loss after such a manouver. And it depends upon the size of the vehicle as to whether BOF or unibody construction is more weight efficient. Under a 110 inch wheelbase, unibody construction *will* yield a lighter vehicle. But in vehicles larger than that, BOF construction will allow a lighter vehicle. Today's 114 inch wheelbase Crown Vic is actually lighter in weight than the new 112 inch wheelbase Taurus.

I believe that if Ford had reskinned the Crown Vic to resemble their Interceptor concept vehicle, there would still be an ample market for the Crown Vic. But instead, these cars carry sheetmetal that dates back to 1998 and 1992 (doors). No wonder people are growing tired of them!

I too am a happy owner of a Grand Marquis and plan to get another (used) one when this one wears out.

David Conwill · May 27, 2010

Flivver said:
Unfortunately what finally killed the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis was 2012 DOT rollover regs. Ford did not want to make the investment in such an old platform.

Body on frame construction is preferred by the police because BOF cars are still repairable after the bump manouvers the police use to spin a perp's vehicle. Unibody cars are often a total loss after such a manouver.

Or was it that FoMoCo, like everyone else, wants to make their product more disposable and thereby increase consumption of new vehicles and undercut competition from their own used sales?

And it depends upon the size of the vehicle as to whether BOF or unibody construction is more weight efficient. Under a 110 inch wheelbase, unibody construction *will* yield a lighter vehicle. But in vehicles larger than that, BOF construction will allow a lighter vehicle. Today's 114 inch wheelbase Crown Vic is actually lighter in weight than the new 112 inch wheelbase Taurus.

That’s very interesting, I didn’t know that. Maybe that’s why in the ‘50s MoPar stuck to BOF for the Imperial line when everything else had gone to unibody? I thought it was done for NVH reasons.

I believe that if Ford had reskinned the Crown Vic to resemble their Interceptor concept vehicle, there would still be an ample market for the Crown Vic. But instead, these cars carry sheetmetal that dates back to 1998 and 1992 (doors). No wonder people are growing tired of them!

Indeed. Or maybe just bring over the Aussie Falcon and call it Galaxie.

-Dave

Flivver · May 27, 2010

I've wanted to be able to purchase an Aussie Falcon over here for years. I was told by a Ford of Australia engineer that it will never happen, however, because the Falcon platform is not readilly Federalizeable. It's kind of a moot point, anyway, since the Falcon will soon be replaced with our FWD Taurus.

Regarding the Imperial from 1960-1968...I heard they had kept BOF for NVH reasons as well. But I suspect it was also because of Ford's bad experience with the 130 inch wheelbase 1958-1960 Lincoln/Continental. Unibody technology of the day just couldn't handle such a long wheelbase.

Geesie · May 27, 2010

Wish me luck, folks. I'm off to drive my 110 horsepower, non-air conditioned 80s iron hunk over the California Peninsular Ranges and down through the Arizona desert basin. Let's hope that nothing of importance ruptures!

I'm stuck in the 80s...automotively

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