Stop for Nazi posts?

Spitfire · Aug 8, 2010

My father – who fought the Nazis in the resistance during the occupation of our country – once said: ”I did not hate the single German soldier, how could I? But I hated everything the uniform stood for!”

Maybe it’s only me, but I am sad to see the way posts on nazi uniforms, generals etc. pop up in this forum.
I do not understand the fascination of the third reich and all what it stood for, and I am directly appalled by the many posts on this subject.
There are hundreds of other forums and websites dedicated to nazilovers and people with that bizarre interest, so why here?

As I said – I might only be me, who feels that way, and if everybody else find it both natural and OK, I might just as well leave.
Better leave than be in the company of Nazi sympathisers.

Italian-wiseguy · Aug 8, 2010

I don't know if I'm entitled to answer;

first of all, I don't post here that much;

and, for what I remember, I never posted anything about nazi or german uniforms, which are beyond my interests;

finally, I come from an active antifascist family and I have not-so-distant jewish origins (from my paternal side).

That said, I honestly can't see anything wrong in a genuine interest in german uniforms. Which, at least in my head, is something way different and distinct from a fascination with nazi ideology.

Maybe I'm wrong, after all, but, since I can't read in the mind of anyone, I'd be very cautious in saying that someone interested in a german uniforms of WWII is also a nazi lover;

and well, I happen to personally know some guy, here in Italy, who's a uniform collector (including german stuff) and I know for sure he's the most distant thing from a nazilover you can imagine.

So...

Just my two cents, obviously;

beside that, I'd like to add that, even if I had few, if any, chace to directly interact with you, I feel some sort of direct, istinctive sympathy toward you and greatly appreciate your posts, so I really hope you don't leave!!

Ciao!!

Vintage lover · Aug 8, 2010

Spitfire said:
My father – who fought the Nazis in the resistance during the occupation of our country – once said: ”I did not hate the single German soldier, how could I? But I hated everything the uniform stood for!”

Maybe it’s only me, but I am sad to see the way posts on nazi uniforms, generals etc. pop up in this forum.
I do not understand the fascination of the third reich and all what it stood for, and I am directly appalled by the many posts on this subject.
There are hundreds of other forums and websites dedicated to nazilovers and people with that bizarre interest, so why here?

As I said – I might only be me, who feels that way, and if everybody else find it both natural and OK, I might just as well leave.
Better leave than be in the company of Nazi sympathisers.

Respectfully, most of my family are comprised of United States military veterans. I have had the great honor to have made good friends with a World War II veteran who fought for the United States before his passing. Concerning posts catering to the history of the Third Reich, I simply cite an interest in history. World War II is seen, by many, as a classic case of good versus evil. Naturally, such an event in history would attract historians and scholars of all sorts.
For the record, I am not, and have never been accused of being, a Nazi sympathizer. I am, however, a self proclaimed scholar, and scholars, must be curious about everything. A smart man once said, "he who does not know history is doomed to repeat it". If these words are true, than it is a good thing that people are interested in both sides of history. I have not seen one post, which condoned nor endorsed the Nazi Ideology, the holocaust, Adolf Hitler, or any other appalling aspect of Nazi Germany. So, in my opinion, discussions of the facts, in a WWII area, can hardly be considered Nazi loving.
If you still have an opposing view point regarding this subject, I would be more than glad to discuss it as gentleman.

-J

Derek WC · Aug 8, 2010

Although I don't want to take part in a political/ethical/moral debate, I will have to agree in part with Spitfire.

I quite enjoy your threads/posts Spitfire, and would find it disappointing if you left the Lounge.

thunderw21 · Aug 8, 2010

I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't see any "Nazi sympathisers" or 88ers on the Lounge. What I do see are guys interested in the history of the Third Reich just like others are interested in 1930s gangsters, clothing from the period, aircraft from WW2 or firearms.

When you study history you study both the good and bad of it. To do otherwise is to turn a blind eye.

Smithy · Aug 8, 2010

I am along the same lines as Spitfire here.

And I think there is a difference in discussing WWII history and events and going "have a look at my new SS cap".

I will admit that I am probably slightly more sensitive than some others perhaps are here. As well as my family seeing much combat in WWII, my wife's grandfathers were both actively involved in the Norwegian resistance with one being hunted down by the SS. For those reasons and having lived twice in a country which was under Nazi occupation, and having seen the effects on people of that time, I despise Nazi uniforms for what they stand for and which in so many ways was evil and morally perverse. I can't stand Nazi symbolism, insignia, etc of that era and to be honest I don't even particularly like seeing it. Maybe it's just me but I can't fathom why people are remotely attracted to it.

Chainsaw · Aug 8, 2010

whether it's Nazi Uniforms, or american made pizza ovens. I don't think this is the place for politics. Originally, I was greatly offended by some of the celebration of WWII nazi culture. By the same token I can't stand communists, and I had to adjust to my friends that came from communist Poland and their support of the USSR.

Spitfire is just saying exactly what I was thinking. I think my views might have changed now though.

Whether it's someone wearing a offensive uniform, or a family member coming late to diner, maybe we can get past it.

Tango Yankee · Aug 8, 2010

I guess I'm one of those who haven't noticed any Nazi sympathizers here, either, though I have seen some individual German military leaders written about with respect. I don't see anything wrong with that; even General Patton respected General Rommel.

I will note that, standing in the small cemetary behind a centuries-old chapel in Landstuhl, Germany (near Kaiserslautern), I did feel some sympathy for the people who lived there towards the end of the war. The graves were recent compared to the chapel, almost all from the time towards the end of the war, with the names and dates showing them to be women, children, and old men. In at least one grave mother and child were buried together. They were victims of Hitler as well, in my eyes.

As a whole, though, the WWII focus does tend to be Eurocentric. There are a few threads about the Pacific war, but not very many at all. I suspect that may be due in part to the romanticising of the European theatre of operations in period movies during and after the war. For some reason the war against the Japanese never quite gained the popularity as the one against the Germans and Italians.

At any rate, Spitfire, I join the others in hoping you hang around.

Regards,
Tom

Spitfire · Aug 8, 2010

It's a relief that I am not the only one feeling like this.
Our fathers and grandfathers fought the war for freedom of the Nazis and the freedom of speech.
Ironically it also gives some people the freedom to speak about their great and main interest: The Third Reich and all its uniforms, medals, generals, SS and what have you.
I will not leave the lounge - I just hope that people with "Nazi intersts" will play it low. We are many here who do not share their interst and fascination.
And I am not forced to read their posts - something I would have been, had Hitler and his "brilliant generals" won.

Harp · Aug 8, 2010

Smithy said:
... having lived twice in a country which was under Nazi occupation, and having seen the effects on people of that time...

I spent two years in Thessalonikki as an advisor with Hellenic forces
during the early 1970s, and traces of the Nazi occupation were still felt.
It wasn't unusual to walk inside a bar, or a tailor shop, and be told a thing
or two about Salonika's occupation experience. Out in the surrounding
countryside packs of wild dogs-descended from the German alsatians-had
not been hunted down and roamed freely. A horrid chapter in human history
whose page may never turn for some.

BanjoMerlin · Aug 8, 2010

I'm not sure it is appropriate to exclude any of the participants of WWII from the "WWII" section.

The onus on all of us is to find a way to discuss the "what" without celebrating the "why" of it. Everyone who studies military history must come to terms with the concept that "great general" and "great man" are often not synonymous.

I find it quite interesting to compare and contrast the differences in the uniforms and equipment of the armies and navies of the participants of WWII. I do prefer to avoid some things as a matter of what I consider to be good taste rather than political correctness.

Davep · Aug 8, 2010

There comes a point in time where things from the past become "History", and therefore become collected, studied, and talked about. The Internet has just made all of this in the open.

Chas · Aug 8, 2010

I'm sure that there are OTHER places for the NAZIphiles to hang out. It's been ticking me off for quite a while. To admire, emulate or otherwise identify with them is abhorrent behaviour, IMHO. The Germans of WW2 were criminals in uniform, not honorable warriors defending a just cause.

Imagine, if you will, a person calling themselves "ALBERTFISH" and making repeated posts about serial killers. It's pretty much on that level.

StetsonHomburg · Aug 8, 2010

My god, not this bloody conversation again! :rage:

StetsonHomburg · Aug 8, 2010

thunderw21 said:
I'm going to have to disagree.

I don't see any "Nazi sympathisers" or 88ers on the Lounge. What I do see are guys interested in the history of the Third Reich just like others are interested in 1930s gangsters, clothing from the period, aircraft from WW2 or firearms.

When you study history you study both the good and bad of it. To do otherwise is to turn a blind eye.

I have to agree with thunderw21 and Vintage Lover, and the people that
do talk about this type of things are keeping it in MY Thread (and their own threads), we discuss it in an adult and respectful manner, so
if you don't like it you don't have to view it!

If you do have a problem with it talk to a Moderator or Bartender, and
if you hate Me/and or us that much by all means, leave if you feel you must!

I can speak for prien and myself saying that we are no Nazi-Lovers or adorners, but "historians" interested in collecting and researching the
U-boat arm and other divisons of the wehrmacht!

Carnage · Aug 8, 2010

Chas said:
I'm sure that there are OTHER places for the NAZIphiles to hang out. It's been ticking me off for quite a while. To admire, emulate or otherwise identify with them is abhorrent behaviour, IMHO. The Germans of WW2 were criminals in uniform, not honorable warriors defending a just cause.

Imagine, if you will, a person calling themselves "ALBERTFISH" and making repeated posts about serial killers. It's pretty much on that level.

I'm not sure it is fair to say that all Germans during the war period were "criminals in uniform"...

StetsonHomburg · Aug 8, 2010

Carnage said:
I'm not sure it is fair to say that all Germans during the war period were "criminals in uniform"...

2nd that!

Spitfire · Aug 8, 2010

StetsonHomburg said:
My god, not this bloody conversation again! :rage:

As far as I know, this is the first time we have talked this subject over in the FL. If you have met it somewhere else it only proves, there is a very good reason for it.

Italian-wiseguy · Aug 8, 2010

Carnage said:
I'm not sure it is fair to say that all Germans during the war period were "criminals in uniform"...

I agree with you.

I've heard many first hand reports about civil, correct and human behavior of german soldiers during WWII;
on the other hand, my grandmother, as an improvised interpreter, contributed to save innocent civilians from a german "kangaroo law" shooting (reprisal for helping partisans).
But then again, my mother's aunt, walking in a civilian profugees' column, was shooted by an ALLIED plane... (so, should I been offended by all the posts about A2s??)

In my family (besides my already stated not-so-distant jewish origins) I've had partisans and people jailed by the fascists; I've had also soldiers drafted by the fascist government, with hadn't any other chance but to go and fight where Mussolini sent them; were they all "criminal in uniforms"?
I don't think so.

And I know of atrocities and war crimes committed by germans, by italians, by fascists and also by anti-fascist partisans; and also by allied troops, yessir.

So I'd be very very cautious before sending statements like "germans were all criminals".

Of course in WWII there was a right side, and a wrong side, and germans were on the wrong one.

I still can't see how this should immediately disqualify any interests in their uniforms, weapons or equipment.

By this standard, there would be plenty of historical periods we should not study, as atrocities, injustice and crime are not a modern invention, nor an exclusive of the german people.

My two cents again.

Ciao!!

Ed Bass · Aug 8, 2010

StetsonHomburg said:
2nd that!

I strongly agree!

Stop for Nazi posts?

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