How do the 40's and burlesque go hand in hand?

John in Covina · Sep 1, 2010

JimWagner said:
Now that's a great line. :eusa_clap

It's from a TV program either PBS or the History channal maybe the American Experience? It was done in the 1990's giving a 4 part history of Las Vegas that was narrated by Richard Crenna based loosely on Susan Berman's Las Vegas book. Susan was Davie Berman's daughter, Davie Berman was one of the the mob's representatives in Las Vegas running some of the casinos.

I love the reference.

LizzieMaine · Sep 1, 2010

What burlesque really looked like --

http://books.google.com/books?id=xD...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA

Life magazine profiles stripteaser Margie Hart in 1940. If she gets three pages in Life, how threatening to the moral order can it really be? "'I'm helping the Allies win the war,' says Margie, 'every time I unhook my brassiere.'"

Silver Dollar · Sep 1, 2010

LizzieMaine said:
What burlesque really looked like --

http://books.google.com/books?id=xD...ook_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA

Life magazine profiles stripteaser Margie Hart in 1940. If she gets three pages in Life, how threatening to the moral order can it really be? "'I'm helping the Allies win the war,' says Margie, 'every time I unhook my brassiere.'"

And here I thought it was the bombs tanks and aircraft that won the war. lol lol lol

Foofoogal · Sep 19, 2010

a real side note ?
------------------------
Just saw this. I really wonder if this whole feeling of supporting the troops and giving the boys something to come home to is why it was popular to have sheer vintage tops and even dresses.
Were the homemakers trying to keep up with the burlesque gals?

fftopic:

I am asking a serious ?

John in Covina · Sep 19, 2010

Foofoogal said:
a real side note ?
------------------------
Just saw this. I really wonder if this whole feeling of supporting the troops and giving the boys something to come home to is why it was popular to have sheer vintage tops and even dresses. Were the homemakers trying to keep up with the burlesque gals? fftopic: I am asking a serious ?

I think we get to see a progression along these Lines:

The attittudes of women changed during the war with the number of women in manufacturing and industrial jobs doing what men normally did.

Women we able to pursue their dreams with less interference than previous.

The number of men available to date had dwindled so competition for the available men was fierce.

With that in mind women's charms had to be maximized for full effect so we see curve conscious styles and some what more revealing fashions being utilized in this competition for men.

Foofoogal · Sep 19, 2010

No matter how many times I see one of the sheer blouses or dresses even I am always stunned that women wore them. It is not just me but every 17 year old girl or somewhat I show these items to are always floored.

I really do think it gave men a reason to come home. Was much more sexy IMHO than the all now let it all hang out.
Teasing comes to mind. Must of driven men crazy.
but I do wonder if the general female wore them or a small segment.
They walk a very thin line between good girl/bad girl look IMHO.
Of all vintage anything I am most curious about this ?

Smuterella · Sep 19, 2010

^ I'm not sure I understand your shock - these items would always be worn with a cami / slip underneath. Not exactly racy.

John in Covina · Sep 19, 2010

A question that comes to mind is are we talking about fashion represented by films? Movies often portrayed a stylized rendition of the time.

It happens alot in movies, they pick some fashion style and attitude for a charector or charectors that represents what only a small percentage of people would actually be doing. I also think that you were a little more likely to see some woman in say an urban setting that rural or small town and a lot more people lived in rural and small towns back then.

Foofoogal · Sep 19, 2010

Not exactly racy.

In comparison of today I feel it was very racy at the time. I know they wore something under but still.

I sold a very sheer exquisite blouse and now have a sheer white embroidered dress with a red overlay.
All very sheer. The thing is it is for a very small woman or a teen about 14 or 15. I find it very odd really.

It is not that I don't think they are beautiful and would love to wear one.
I cannot be the only one on this side of the pond that thinks this.
I just know even if one wore one with a slip or under blouse and walked down the street one would be the talk of the town. Quickly.
I am way off topic from the original one here. Sorry.

fftopic:
I am going to make it a point to check out sheer blouses in the magazines from then and see. I really believe it was the norm and not just Hollywood.
-----------
started a thread on the Powder room to not take away from this.

LizzieMaine · Sep 19, 2010

Smuterella said:
^ I'm not sure I understand your shock - these items would always be worn with a cami / slip underneath. Not exactly racy.

Exactly. You'd wear a very plain, unornamented slip underneath, and the effect was much more modest than you'd think just from looking at the sheer overgarment. There's a suggestive element, sure, but it's an innocent sort of suggestiveness rather than something overt.

You probably *wouldn't* see something like that at 2 in the afternoon in between the soap display and the Uneeda Biscuits down at the First National store, and if you did it would likely provoke comment, just as wearing a strapless evening gown to Wal-Mart might provoke comment today. These were dressy garments, intended for dressy occasions, not something Sally Dishrag would wear for everyday.

4spurs · Sep 19, 2010

Daddy, what's that?

I grew up in the French Quarter of New Orleans. The doors to the strip clubs were usually held open by a barker who would entice the men on the street by showing them a bit of whoever was on stage. This went on 24 x 7 as New Orleans never sleeps and is never short of sailors, seamen, tourists, conventioneers, and others.

Beginning on my first day in school in the first grade and every day thereafter I rode the bus down Bourbon St. with my older sister six blocks to our stop at St. Peter St. While riding the bus I would take in the view as the bus rumbled down the street.

Eisenhower was President, and Chas. De Gaulle soon would be.

If I wrote that as a kid I had seen more topless women than a nun in a girl's boarding school you'd think I was exaggerating, so I'll tell you what my father often told people. He said I was 8 years old before I ever saw a woman with her clothes on, and when I did I allegedly asked him, "Daddy, what's that?"

Back in those days most of the women had acts, and some of the acts were quite funny. I remember one woman who pulled off a series of fake breasts, each one underneath more colorful and odd than the previous. But what I remember most was the women themselves. You see when you live in a neighborhood you get to know your neighbors, and I often saw burlesque dancers and strippers in the A & P when I went shopping with my mother, or in my sister's hair salon which she opened in the back of the Court of Two Sisters, upstairs behind where Frogman Henry had a regular spot.

They were all just regular women, working to make a living.

Nowdays Bourbon St. is pretty much a disappointment; just a lot of bored pole dancers and shaking going on, no act, no Blaze Starr, or Tempest Storm. Nothing really to look at; that is until recently.

This weekend in New Orleans there's a burlesque festival,
http://www.offbeat.com/2010/09/16/burlesque-back-in-new-orleans-this-weekend/

I suspect there are similar events in other cities, so, keep your eyes peeled, there might be one coming to a hall near you.

calendargirl · Sep 19, 2010

I know I'm being redundant, but I can't recommend viewing Pretty Things enough!

Foofoogal · Sep 19, 2010

Lizzie, I am glad you commented. I started another thread in the powder room also on this.

I understand about the undergarments.

Foofoogal · Sep 19, 2010

They were all just regular women, working to make a living.

I have stated this before but I played jacks with Candy Barr as a child and she was just the beautiful woman I was in awe of. She smelled so good and was so frilly compared to the other ladies I knew at the time.
Back in the 1960s.

Still don't know if she would fall in category of stripper or Burlesque but it does not matter to me in the least. She was nice to me.

Quite possibly my thinking on things comes from the other women and their comments at the time around me in reference to her. I remember one time another mother tied her blouse in a knot at the waist. Different time and different ways.

Silver Dollar · Sep 21, 2010

Foofoogal said:
I have stated this before but I played jacks with Candy Barr as a child and she was just the beautiful woman I was in awe of. She smelled so good and was so frilly compared to the other ladies I knew at the time.
Back in the 1960s.

Still don't know if she would fall in category of stripper or Burlesque but it does not matter to me in the least. She was nice to me.

Quite possibly my thinking on things comes from the other women and their comments at the time around me in reference to her. I remember one time another mother tied her blouse in a knot at the waist. Different time and different ways.

You got to play jacks with Candy Barr???? Holy Schmoley, she's one of my all time favorites from that era. She was one of the sexiest women I ever saw and she wasn't one of those model type skinnies. She had real curves and that makes a big difference with respect to the intended and resulting effect of the dance, i.e. to entice. You guys are 100% right when you talk about the "tease" aspect. The women used to be called strip teasers, now changed to strippers. It was a much, much sexier show in those days than the pole dancer's of today. The whole point was that you really didn't see as much as you thought you did. That peek a boo stuff really works better than the current "BLAP!!-- there it is" technique which if you ask me gets boring after 20 minutes. Also as I mentioned with Candy Barr, more of the performers were as we call in Yiddish (same in German), "saftig" which literally translates as "juicy". The women weren't sizes 0 to 4 but more like 10 on the small size to 16 for the taller women, and they weren't considered fat. They had that famous hour glass shape. My wife is shaped just like that and I'm crazy about her. I'm always telling her she looks like the performers back in the 40's and 50's and she loves it.

dhermann1 · Sep 24, 2010

Pic from Shorpy

If you haven't discovered www.shorpy.com yet, then you should check it out. He posts high res photos from as far back as the Civil War, through the early 1960's.
Here is a pic from 1939 that really illustrates the answer to the question this thread asks.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8997?size=_original

BoPeep · Sep 24, 2010

Silver Dollar said:
. . . that famous hour glass shape. My wife is shaped just like that and I'm crazy about her. I'm always telling her she looks like the performers back in the 40's and 50's and she loves it.

Good man.

My husband would agree with you 100%. It's the tease not the nudity.

Silver Dollar · Sep 24, 2010

You got that right, Bo Peep.

Cigarband · Sep 25, 2010

Burlesque wasn't just Strip Women back in the 40s Many of the best comedians got started there. Red Buttons, Abbot and Costello, Joey Faye, Phil Silvers, Rodney Dangerfield, Milton Berle, Bert Lahr and many others.:eusa_clap

Chas · Sep 26, 2010

I see quite a few burlesque shows; the current generation of dancers (I would assert that most of them) pay honest and genuine homage to the dancers of yesteryear; many of them do a lot of research and put a lot of effort and personal expense into their act. Some integrate comedy routines and even tap dancing into their act. So it's not all strip by any stretch.

How do the 40's and burlesque go hand in hand?

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