Whatever happened to "coat and tie required"?

In a VERY expensive restaurant here in São Paulo (a fashion place, must i say), people think it's "cool" go dinner in jeans, t-shirts, etc. This would demonstrate to others that the restaurant would be familiar to you, not needing "special clothes".

The best we have is "No shirt, No shoes, No service"

Both nightclubs I've been to have dress codes for men. One cost 10 dollars a person to get in, and had a relatively lax dress code, only prohibiting things like sneakers, jeans and t-shirts. The other, at 20 to get in, was particularly strict. It wasn't so much a specific code (though there was a list of surefire prohibitions) so much as they used their discretion to ensure everyone looked trendy. I was surprised I made it in.

EDIT: For women, the general rule was less is more, but I don't think any woman ever gets turned down. No real dress code so to speak.

martinsantos said:

In a VERY expensive restaurant here in São Paulo (a fashion place, must i say), people think it's "cool" go dinner in jeans, t-shirts, etc. This would demonstrate to others that the restaurant would be familiar to you, not needing "special clothes".

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At a very expensive establishment here in London, namely The Ritz Hotel, it is mandatory for gentleman to wear a jacket and tie, and ladies to also dress appropriately, for traditional afternoon tea.

A dress code that in my opinion, should never change.

Cheers,

Danny O

Danny,

Agree with you!

By the way, I don't like this kind of restaurant... I prefer some traditional, downtown restaurants.

But by the sucess of some places here (like the one I wrote about), I think I'm the minority. The power of newly rich people, as a friend says? I don't know. But what can be considered "chic" is sometimes very different than what we would like to be...

Danny Ocean said:

At a very expensive establishment here in London, namely The Ritz Hotel, it is mandatory for gentleman to wear a jacket and tie, and ladies to also dress appropriately, for traditional afternoon tea.

A dress code that in my opinion, should never change.

Cheers,

Danny O

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I'm of two minds on this whole restaurant dress code thing.

I do enjoy dressing well and going to a good restaurant for a quiet meal. The problem is that very few restaurants I've ever been to that required coats and ties actually lived up to their implied standards. All show and no go, so to speak. If a restaurant is going to actually require a dress code then it better serve a great meal as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise I'm going to feel cheated as well as put upon.

The plain fact is that they are there to serve me, not the other way around.

That said, there are hardly any restaurants within say an hour's drive from me that I'd dress up to go to in any case. The culinary bar has been set pretty low. That's not to say there aren't any expensive ones. Just not any great ones. Wish it was otherwise.

Geesie said:

Yes, I don't know if it's regional, personal, or temporal but I think of "coat check" in that context. "Cloakroom" makes me think of school rooms.

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I'm sure it is a locational thing. 'Cloakroom' is still the normal term here in the UK.

Paisley said:

I imagine it's losing business, not a lawsuit, that caused restaurants to modify their dress codes. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that sweatsuit wearers aren't a protected class.

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Most likely. The only incidences of a dress code being challenged in the UK of which I am aware were primarily in relation to school uniforms and making allowance for religious dress. One restaurant I know of got sued. The Hilton Belfast, when it first opened, had a collar and tie rule (though Bill Clinton was waved on in with no tie when he visited in 1997...). They got sued by members of the Butterfly Club, though that was as much about insensitivity as anything. The BC is a support group for cross-dressers (braver men than I'll ever be to go out cross-dressed in Belfast, even nowadays) and, afaik, the transgendered. They organise outings for those who wish to go out dressed as their female alter-egos but lack the opportunity to do so otherwise, or want the 'safety in numbers' security (which, over there at least, is still important). The Hilton took their booking (I know not whether they were briefed in advance about the nature of the party), but when they arrived, the door staff took an inflexible approach to dress dress code, taking the "you are men, but you are not wearing neckties" line. It did proceed to solicitors getting involved, though I have no idea whether it went any further. I'm not sure what the legal position is in the UK viz-a-vis cross-dressers now, though I should think that if they had been transgendered persons, they would have had a discrimination case. FWIW, the entire group had complied with the ladies' dress code publicised by the restaurant.

miss_elise said:

and then there are the places that don't let you in if you are wearing a suit because they don't want to have that kind of vibe (particularly after 5 on friday nights - i think they want you to change at the office or something)

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Quite a few places in the City of London started a 'no suits' policy from the mid late nineties. This was mostly inspired by the appalling behaviour of many City-boys, which in some cases approached Bullingdon levels.

Marc Chevalier said:

I once had lunch at Harry's Bar in Venice, Italy -- it hardly gets "swankier" (or more expensive) than that. Sitting at the table next to me was a Russian family with far more wealth than class. I could live with the sight of their Versace track suits and sneakers; what killed me was the open-mouthed, bovine way they wolfed down their $300-per-person cuisine.

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In my personal experience, the uber-rich (especially those newly so) often take great delight in dressing like slobs at all possible times, the attitude being one of "I am better than you due to my wealth, I could buy this place if I so desired, therefore I do not have to concern myself with your petty rules and regulations".

Lincsong said:

I've noticed a couple restaurants where the business requests no children under age 5 or 6. What is also disgusting is when the parents change the diapers in front of everyone. Take them into the backroom!:rage:

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What some people let their kids away with is atrocious; I can well understand this sort of rule being put in place. It's sad that it has to be, but it seems some people from all social classes are simply utterly ignorant of the fact that not everyone wants to be exposed to their little darling's appalling behaviour. Some folks also have no idea what is or is not an appropriate place and time for a very young child. I've seen a nine month old baby brought to a wedding before now - still there at the reception after 11pm.

Viola said:

I always find it hilarious when parents combine the believing their child is the most brilliant thing ever with believing he can't possibly UNDERSTAND at his age and its so cruel to expect him to.

I see a lot of people who yammer on about how gifted their kid is but then say "but you can't expect him to sit still/be quiet/not throw things, he's a kid..." when it's like "lady, he's TEN YEARS OLD..."

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Typically, too, this sort are always the first to complain about other people's kids....

lady eel said:

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Men must be in coat and tie (standard or bow tie)
Exceptions to the "tie rule" are: turtlenecks, bolo ties, ascots, jeweled collars, ruffled collars and banded collars.
Military Dress, ethnic and/or religious attire will also be allowed.
No zippered jackets, outdoor jackets, polo shirts, t-shirts, denim (or colored denim), shorts, sandals, flip flops, sneakers or sneaker-like shoes are allowed.
Leather jackets (with buttons) and leather pants are allowed.

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I presume the 'buttons' requirement is made on the assumption that they will them wear a leather jacket that is cut like a blazer rather than a bomber jacket. Leather trews, though..... oh, my. :eusa_doh: They should never be allowed anywhere, at any time. Only exception: bikers (for whom they are a utilitarian, protective thing). Leather trews as a fashion thing: hideous.

These cats are in a third-world country, and they still make an effort...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...tlemen-of-bacongo#/?picture=356236605&index=2

The Rag relaxed their dress code in 2009 for around a month, it went down very badly and lots of people complained. I am happy to say I popped in at the weekend and the rules jacket and tie still stand and there are no jeans, denim, shorts, leggings, T-shirts, halter tops, any sports clothing, trainers or flip-flops permitted at any time.

There are several very nice places in and around St. Louis, but my favorite place was the 94th Aero Squadron at Lambert Field just off of 30R aways up from the threshold at the 1500' markers.

Used to be coat and tie only in the dining room after 1800. It was also pretty dressy in the (huge) lounge area as most were waiting on a table in the dining room. However there were many aircrew and airport admin types frequenting the lounge too after 1700, most dressed in business attire or uniforms. On Saturday and Sunday afternoons the lounge was usually crowded with travelers, locals, and airport staff and aircrew. There was a large outdoor deck for viewing the departures and arrivals and wait service to the deck as well. Very noisy for most, but diehard pilots and aviation buffs loved it.

The place changed hands several times over the years and slowly abandonded their dress code. I stopped going shortly after that, and the building was eventually sold to Bi-State Development for airport expansion. I sure do miss the place.

I don't think (apologies if yes) anyone has mentioned the infamous Harrods dress code about which there was if I recall correctly a furore a few years back. If you actually look at it, it is pretty below bog standard. In other words, not "suit and tie", not even "no jeans" as I had heard, but, (paraphrased) "no dirty togs, bathing gear, exposed midriffs, flip flops, or shorts which expose your, ahem, lower gluteals". Stuff a reasonable person wouldn't be caught dead in away from the beach or a construction site anyway. Sheesh.

bunnyb.gal said:

I don't think (apologies if yes) anyone has mentioned the infamous Harrods dress code about which there was if I recall correctly a furore a few years back. If you actually look at it, it is pretty below bog standard. In other words, not "suit and tie", not even "no jeans" as I had heard, but, (paraphrased) "no dirty togs, bathing gear, exposed midriffs, flip flops, or shorts which expose your, ahem, lower gluteals". Stuff a reasonable person wouldn't be caught dead in away from the beach or a construction site anyway. Sheesh.

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Horrids is a vile little shop, you could only make something that vile and tackey by spending so much money on it.

I have refused to go in there since they refused entry to an Army Officer in uniform, on Armistice Day because they were worried someone might mistake him for a lavatory attendant.

About the most restorants get away with here is "smart casual" and it almost always never gets enforced. There are private clubs and country clubs that have a dress code but they are membership only anyway. I think if someone opened a resto here that had a real shirt and tie dress code Corrinne Brown would be outside of it screaming how the owners were racist.

What about dress codes at work? Just this morning the gentleman with whom I carpool and I were lamenting the fact that you almost never see a tie among the professional staff at work anymore. We are managers in the Information Technology Department of one of the larger employers in our area. Most managers, both in our department and in engineering, human resources, etc., wear slacks and a dress shirt or polo, but no coat and no tie. Among the professional women you seldom see a skirt or dress; knit slacks and a blouse are the order of the day. Several of us tried to restart the trend of dressing more formally several years ago, but it fizzled out after a few months when it became obvious we were not going to win over any recruits to our team. Strange as it may seem, the last place I saw a gentleman wearing a coat and tie, other than in church, was in the local Walmart a few days ago. He was an older gentleman, and he really stood out. I mean that in a good way, he looked very dignified. He also looked very natural dressed that way, it seemed obvious that this was the norm for him.

During a recent trip to Chicago, we ate at one of the last "jacket required" restaurants, Spiaggia's. It is the one where the Obamas had their anniversary dinner last year. Anyway, I saw the manager get into an argument with a man who REFUSED to put on his coat. "I'm hot" he said. "I'm going to spend $2,000 tonight," he said. The manager was unfazed. He told him "My restaurant. My rules" and told him there are many other places he could eat. I complimented the manager for sticking by the rules. He said "If I let people in no matter what they were wearing, I would hate to see what this place would look like."

Brian Sheridan said:

one of the last "jacket required" restaurants, Spiaggia.

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No jeans allowed either. :nono: :whip:

Food, service, view; all in all probably my favorite Italian restaurant in America. (Fine dining category)

There are a few restaurants in my home town in Germany where coat and tie are required. I have heard and read many times that some of these put the rule in place specifically for American tourists, as they are known to dress very casually no matter where they go. It's a bit of a running joke where I'm from.
Having said that, there are of course very casually dressed Germans who go out to eat looking like they just rolled out of bed. I went to two weddings there last year and both had people attending in jeans, one even wore a hoodie.
However, I still think that fine dining is a bit of a bigger deal in Europe than it is in North America. When my parents came to visit me in Canada they were appalled that places without a tablecloth would even be considered a restaurant, and asked me to take them elsewhere.

Drappa said:

there are of course very casually dressed Germans who go out to eat looking like they just rolled out of bed.

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Yes, and they don't suddenly put on suits and dresses when they travel to....oh.....say...... America. Seriously, slobwear is pandemic; it knows no borders. The outbreak may have its origin in America but it's pretty much a global thing at this point.

I don't know of a SINGLE restaurant (or other public building) where a dress-code is required anymore, apart from school.

In fact a few months ago, my father told me of the existence of places (restaurants, I believe) where the dresscode was to be as INFORMAL as possible.

The idea of showing up to dinner...ANYWHERE...wearing sandals, boardshorts and a singlet would send me to the looneyhouse strapped up in a straitjacket.

Tomasso said:

Yes, and they don't suddenly put on suits and dresses when they travel to....oh.....say...... America. Seriously, slobwear is pandemic; it knows no borders. The outbreak may have its origin in America but it's pretty much a global thing at this point.

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I wouldn't say it knows no borders or that it happens to the same extent everywhere. I lived in North America for 7 years, and saw things I have never seen anywhere else, not before I went and not since. Stusents turning up to breakfast at University in bathrobes or doing third year presentations in pyjamas (and I mean proper pj's).