Libya - Deja Vu

Burton · Mar 22, 2011

A fascinating discussion and really hard to try and predict the outcome. From reading the above I see now that the entire event in Libya probably started from a series of fashion faux pas' by the good colonel. People can only take so much!

Haversack · Mar 22, 2011

I think the back-and-forth parallels we are seeing between the Libya campaigns of the Second World War and the present Rebellion/Revolution/Civil War within Libya is due in part to the terrain and also to each side having their base of support at either end of the coastline. The closer one side gets to the others base, the further away you get from your own base. Any setback you receive forces you to fall back on your supply. Logistics takes on a greater import. The terrain keeps almost all movement and conflict within 50 miles of the coast.

There is a political cartoon in the collection my grandfather made between 1936 and 1946 that illustrates this perfectly. Five narrow panels laid out top to bottom. Alternately, a lion and a dachshund each running and carrying a capital letter in its mouth. The panels with the lion have it running to the left, the panels with the dachshund show it running to the right. From top to bottom, the letters are L-I-B-Y-A. The title of the cartoon is "Gazala Gallop".

Haversack.

John in Covina · Mar 22, 2011

Unfortunately, I don't think we are seeing the end of the age of warlords, tyrants and dictators.

V.C. Brunswick · Mar 22, 2011

lol

PADDY said:
With the greatest respect I beg to differ! WHAT on Earth is wrong with this 'FASHION STATEMENT?' If it's good enough for an esteemed FL Bartender, then it's certainly fine for a Head of State - mais non??

My guess is that Col. Ga-Daffy is trying to acclimate himself to a prospective place of exile. Sometimes a change of scenery is just what the doctor ordered.

1961MJS · Mar 22, 2011

Hi

On a more serious note, I remember the quote from the Reagan years concerning why we didn't plan on assassinating Ga daffy, "Better the devil you know, than the one you don't." Apparently that sentiment has kept him alive for quite some time. I can't help wondering why we changed our mind. Maybe we found out he's sick or something, and we're trying to get someone in that we like. I'm still glad I live in America.

Later

AtomicEraTom · Mar 23, 2011

I just hope that what's good for the people is what happens. The middle east has so much fighting and hardship. I know the likeliness of it happening there is slim, so many differences in a small area is bound to lead to fighting. Just hoping for the best for the folks living over there.

Pompidou · Mar 23, 2011

1961MJS said:
Hi

On a more serious note, I remember the quote from the Reagan years concerning why we didn't plan on assassinating Ga daffy, "Better the devil you know, than the one you don't." Apparently that sentiment has kept him alive for quite some time. I can't help wondering why we changed our mind. Maybe we found out he's sick or something, and we're trying to get someone in that we like. I'm still glad I live in America.

Later

I think what changed is our PR in the Middle East. Look at Egypt, for example, even the people noticed, after we made a visit and said, "Hey protesters, you know the US has been with you the whole way!" to which they said, "Who're you kidding, you didn't abandon Mubarak till we won." All the dominoes are falling. We don't know what to do. None of the world does. The surprise of Tunisia to the embarrassing wrong call all around as to who was going to win in Egypt - it caught everyone's policymakers off guard. We have a chance to make some image reparations in the region by appearing to care for their people, and when the Arab League asked us to help the Libyan people, there was no way to say no. We've got an uphill battle making amends to any people who overthrow a cruel dictator that we've been happily and artificially propping up for the sake of convenience/gas prices. Might as well get started by aiding their struggles.

Berlin · Mar 23, 2011

My country went to Libya today; flying under the flag of the NAVO.

I hope that this is over soon.

bumphrey hogart · Mar 23, 2011

To add what might be a contentious note,I think there are certain countries/areas that can only be ruled by dictators at the moment. Look at Iraq,whatever you might say about saddam he kept a lid on it and the vast majority of his population had a reasonable standard of life.Since we took him out it's gone to hell in a handbasket and now there's just death,chaos and destruction. The reason we can't leave is there is a thousand potential saddams all waiting in the wings and should we go they would fight it out between themselves until one won and the Iraqi people would be the victims. How many now given the choice would go back to the relative stability of saddam,and I'm not just talking about the Iraqi people.
And there are so many places all over the world,horrible,vicious dictators keeping people in what appears to be abject subjugation,we look at it with our eyes and think 'we should help'.
These chaps,horrible as they are,are the only thing giving these places any kind of stability at all,without them all the factions he keeps so carefully balanced,spillover and start killing each other and any one else they can. In the mean time any economy the country had dies on it's feet,(unless,for some reason it's illegal drugs,then it thrives?).
Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway and for some of these places it's positively lethal!

dnjan · Mar 23, 2011

bumphrey hogart said:
To add what might be a contentious note,I think there are certain countries/areas that can only be ruled by dictators at the moment. Look at Iraq,whatever you might say about saddam he kept a lid on it and the vast majority of his population had a reasonable standard of life.Since we took him out it's gone to hell in a handbasket and now there's just death,chaos and destruction. The reason we can't leave is there is a thousand potential saddams all waiting in the wings and should we go they would fight it out between themselves until one won and the Iraqi people would be the victims. How many now given the choice would go back to the relative stability of saddam,and I'm not just talking about the Iraqi people.
And there are so many places all over the world,horrible,vicious dictators keeping people in what appears to be abject subjugation,we look at it with our eyes and think 'we should help'.
These chaps,horrible as they are,are the only thing giving these places any kind of stability at all,without them all the factions he keeps so carefully balanced,spillover and start killing each other and any one else they can. In the mean time any economy the country had dies on it's feet,(unless,for some reason it's illegal drugs,then it thrives?).
Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway and for some of these places it's positively lethal!

I would imagine that many of the northern Iraqi kurds would have a slightly different take on the situation.
Perspective requires many different views.

John in Covina · Mar 23, 2011

It comes back to the big problem that in the Middle East there are factions that would love to build followers in every country. Some of these have the money and weapons to do so and can co-opt a revolution.

Iran traded the Shah for a theocracy that is also very repressive. The dynamics has denominational rivalry for the Muslims, there are ethnic tensions and even tribal tensions. Each is an overlay on top of the political situations there. The affects of all of these different pressures makes the situation complex not simple. It is easy to say we want freedom for the people of the area but getting there when the path is so beset with pitfalls doesn't leave a lot of room for good outcomes.

PADDY · Mar 23, 2011

'Here endeth the lesson.' (As Mr Connery said in 'The Untouchables').

As an aside..."Respect" to all the gentlemen Members who kept this thread civil, measured and at times humorous, which is a challenge with a topic such as this. May Peace and a sense of security soon be with the good people of that region.
'

Libya - Deja Vu

Burton

One of the Regulars

Haversack

One Too Many

John in Covina

V.C. Brunswick

1961MJS

My Mail is Forwarded Here

AtomicEraTom

Pompidou

One Too Many

Berlin

Practically Family

bumphrey hogart

One of the Regulars

dnjan

One Too Many

John in Covina

PADDY

I'll Lock Up

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