Need Help Finding A WWII-Era Patch

I want to put a patch on my new GW Dubow 1755 and saw the 449th Bomb Group Insignia Patch on a vintage Dubow 1755 and thought it looked sharp. I'm attaching links of the jacket and the patch. The problem is, I can't find this patch anywhere. Does anybody know where I might be able to find it? I checked with flightjacket and no dice. Thanks.

http://www.questmasters.us/A-2_Jacket_Dubow_719BS.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/449thbg-emblem.jpg

I don't know if you're looking for an original or a reproduction.
If you want an original, good luck, if you can even find one, it'll probably cost you a couple hundred dollars or more.

There are several patch painters on the forum and the VLJ Forum who can paint this patch for you.

Since it's not that difficult a patch, just 2 colors and very few 'details', might I suggest you take a stab at painting it yourself.

1. Download a pic of the patch and print it to the size you want. (about 6 inches at the longest points...about the size of a CD) You will use this sized pic as your template/stencil.

2. Get a suitable piece of leather, not too thick so it'll flex with the jacket, slightly oversized and prep it by wiping the surface with nail polish remover or napthol...some type of solvent to take the original coating off. If you don't prep the leather, the paint may not adhere as well, especially if you use acrylic paint.

3. Paint the leather blue (that's the base color of your patch). Use carbon paper or coat the back of your stencil with a soft pencil. Transfer the design.

4. Paint the dark yellow/amber parts of the patch. If you want to be 'authentic', use enamel paint. If you don't care about being authentic, use acrylic paint. (also enamel paint can be antiqued to give it a desirable patina, acrylic paint is very flexible and more difficult to 'age' and wears like iron).

5. Trim the patch and remember to leave a border around the edge for sewing.

442RCT said:

I don't know if you're looking for an original or a reproduction.
If you want an original, good luck, if you can even find one, it'll probably cost you a couple hundred dollars or more.

There are several patch painters on the forum and the VLJ Forum who can paint this patch for you.

Since it's not that difficult a patch, just 2 colors and very few 'details', might I suggest you take a stab at painting it yourself.

1. Download a pic of the patch and print it to the size you want. (about 6 inches at the longest points...about the size of a CD) You will use this sized pic as your template/stencil.

2. Get a suitable piece of leather, not too thick so it'll flex with the jacket, slightly oversized and prep it by wiping the surface with nail polish remover or napthol...some type of solvent to take the original coating off. If you don't prep the leather, the paint may not adhere as well, especially if you use acrylic paint.

3. Paint the leather blue (that's the base color of your patch). Use carbon paper or coat the back of your stencil with a soft pencil. Transfer the design.

4. Paint the dark yellow/amber parts of the patch. If you want to be 'authentic', use enamel paint. If you don't care about being authentic, use acrylic paint. (also enamel paint can be antiqued to give it a desirable patina, acrylic paint is very flexible and more difficult to 'age' and wears like iron).

5. Trim the patch and remember to leave a border around the edge for sewing.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I have always wanted to try and recreate certain patches on my own.

=GG=

Thank you for the tutorial. Unfortunately, I am not a painter and I just want to buy one. I picked up an original Far East Air Force patch in mint condition yesterday so now I can't even use the 449th patch (wrong theater of operations). If anybody reading this message has a suggestion for a bomber group that operated in the southwest Pacific during the end of WWII, I'd like to see it. Thank you.

Placement of Shoulder Patches

What sleeve do I put the unit patch on? I have a patch for the Far East Command and I'm thinking about adding one for the 5th Air Force that operated under it toward the end of WWII. Do I put one under the other, on opposite sleeves, or what? Which sleeve would they typically go on? Thanks for educating a newbie.

I figured out that you only wear one patch. I will go with the Far East Command patch.

I picked up a couple of canvas Disney patches painted by RKO studios. They're made of heavy canvas and I'm wondering how they'll look and wear on my jacket. Does anybody have experience with canvas patches on a leather jacket? Thanks.

In theater squadron patches were made of leather as they survived the harsh elements of combat weather better than canvas. Although some units used some canvas patches...they were always replacing them as they usually fell apart due to mildew and heat. The avatar that I'm using on my profile...is the 47th Bombardment Squadron of the 41st Bombardment Group from the 7th Army Air Force in the Pacific Theater. They flew B-25's. As a note...some of the embroidery patches including shoulder patches, also fell victim to the heat and mildew...so you find a good number of flight jackets with painted shoulder and unit patches as well.

Jim

jbmilart said:

In theater squadron patches were made of leather as they survived the harsh elements of combat weather better than canvas. Although some units used some canvas patches...they were always replacing them as they usually fell apart due to mildew and heat. The avatar that I'm using on my profile...is the 47th Bombardment Squadron of the 41st Bombardment Group from the 7th Army Air Force in the Pacific Theater. They flew B-25's. As a note...some of the embroidery patches including shoulder patches, also fell victim to the heat and mildew...so you find a good number of flight jackets with painted shoulder and unit patches as well.

Jim

Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim. That is very interesting, and very upsetting. I just paid good money for 3 patches that I probably can't use now. I guess I can put them on a jeans jacket or something. The artwork is beautiful, though.

Your patch is interesting.

the RKO patch are post WW2 repros painted on canvas. Canvas was not used too often in WW2. The best pacific/CBI theater patches (layered leather) are made by this guy:

http://myworld.ebay.com/a2jacketpatches/


You can him (Sean) about a custom job.

If you are looking at CBI theater units, there are loads of examples at:

http://www.cbi-history.com/part_vi.html


go to the home page

Joel Shapiro said:

What sleeve do I put the unit patch on? I have a patch for the Far East Command and I'm thinking about adding one for the 5th Air Force that operated under it toward the end of WWII. Do I put one under the other, on opposite sleeves, or what? Which sleeve would they typically go on? Thanks for educating a newbie.

Click to expand...

My father wore his on his service blouse with the 13th Air Force patch on the left and his FEAF patch on the right. He was with HQ Squadron, XIII Fighter Command. When the 13th moved from the South Pacific to the South West Pacific they merged with the 5th Air Force to form the FEAF and both numbered air forces were supposed to be just the FEAF but both wanted to keep their identity and kept their original numbered patches on uniforms as well. The 5th AF gets a lot of credit during the war that the 13th did not. I have seen in one book where P-38s of the 5th shot down Admiral Yamamoto. This is very wrong and has upset a lot of veterans from the 13th. It was P-38s flying out of Fighter 2 airstrip on Guadalcanal that shot down Yamamoto. This would be units from the 13th. If you want to go with a bomb group, I would go with one from the 13th. The 42nd Bomb Group flew B-25s and were the Crusaders, the 5th Bomb Group were the Bomber Barons and flew b-24s, the 307th Bomb Group were the Long Rangers and they flew the longest missions of the war. From Morotai to Balikpapan. They took off in the dark and landed in the dark. They also flew the B-24. You also have the 868th Bomb Squadron which was the Snoopers and they flew black B-24s equipped with radar to hunt Jap ships at night. I have close friends that served with all of these units and have been adopted by them as an Honorary member of their units. Don’t get me wrong, the 5th AF is a great outfit with a great bunch of guys, but the 13th AF also known as the Jungle Air Force has had their history stolen by the Air Force Historians after the war. The historians were supposed to record the combat records of all AF units during the war but since it was over and they wanted to go home, they only used the Command Communiqués from McArthur which did not include early reports about the 13th AF due to them coming under the command of Admiral Halsey during the first part of their assignment and McArthur only talked about his personal AF, the 5th, which stands to reason. He was very partial to the 5th but did the 13th a big disservice. We, 13th AF Veterans Association, are still working to correct this oversight with the records. The 13th was activated for the war on the 13th month after Pearl Harbor, the 13th day, at 1300 hours in 1943. That would be 13 January 1943. They were worried about all the 13s but their first General, General Twining, said that they would not be unlucky but when the Japs faced them, the Japs would be unlucky and for Yamamoto that was correct. Sorry for the long winded soap box post, but I really love this group. It helps that my hero, my dad, was one of them.

=GG=

It sounds like you are very unsure about what exact squadron or group you want to represent. Just as a suggestion be a little patient do some more research, pick up a good flight jacket book and just look at the different options. Maybe pick a squadron you have a direct connection with. For example: I just recently picked up a private purchase G-1 style jacket. I have decided to have it adorned with VMB-611s insignia, my reasoning behind it is I am a member of Parris Islands Living History Detachment, VMB-611 was stationed in 1943 at Parris Islands Page Field, thus that bit of connection.
Just take a deep breath, take a day off from deciding and clear your head, you got the Air Corps fever my friend (all the cool kids get it) think it over and then decide what squadron or group you want to represent ( will save ya some money from buying patches you can't use).

With as enthusiastic as you are about this I'm sure you'll eventually come up with a sweet combo, can't wait til you post pics of it.

Thank you for your wise words. I will enjoy my jacket for a while and figure it out. Since I never served, I have no connection to any squadron, just cartoon characters. I grew up in New York. Any squadrons from there?

Tons of squadrons were stationed in New York. Mitchel Field in Garden City, New York had the following groups stationed there at one point or another during the war.
8th Fighter Group
HQ 1st Air Support Command
HQ 1st Bomber Command
1st Interceptor Command
326th Fighter Group
353rd Fighter Group
62nd Fighter Wing
80th Fighter Group
36th Fighter Group
362nd Fighter Group
301st Fighter Wing
373rd Fighter Group

And don't forget there were 3-4 squadrons within a group, so just off Mitchel Field you have almost 50 different groups or squadrons you could represent. And that is just one Air Field out of the many that were in New York during WW2

Wow, thank you for that. I will check those out. Appreciate it.

I went for a leather patch from Old Badges on eBay. John Chapman recommended them. I went for a CBI patch. The fact is, I have no emotional or historical attachment to any squadron in the war. My grandfathers were too old to serve and my father was too young. My grandfather was in the civil defense force, but he had nothing to do with the air force. My dad's uncle fought but I know nothing about his service and he also was not in the air force. I liked the look of this patch and I went for it. If I add a squadron patch, it probably will be an AVG Tiger, since my dad always called me Tiger. Or just some cartoon I like.

Thanks, everybody, for all of your help. Here's the patch I bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2963724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_588wt_852

Added one more patch

So I added one more patch: another CBI patch, but this time an original for a little less than the repro. Now I have four patches. I probably paid $55 for all of them. I'll use one, hopefully the original, and donate the others to John for him to use on someone else's jacket.

Here's the original CBI patch:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...314794&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_1100

What are the other patches you have? I might be interested in buying one or two off you if the price is right. PM me if interested with prices.

Joel Shapiro said:

I went for a leather patch from Old Badges on eBay. John Chapman recommended them. I went for a CBI patch. The fact is, I have no emotional or historical attachment to any squadron in the war. My grandfathers were too old to serve and my father was too young. My grandfather was in the civil defense force, but he had nothing to do with the air force. My dad's uncle fought but I know nothing about his service and he also was not in the air force. I liked the look of this patch and I went for it. If I add a squadron patch, it probably will be an AVG Tiger, since my dad always called me Tiger. Or just some cartoon I like.

Thanks, everybody, for all of your help. Here's the patch I bought:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2963724&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_588wt_852

Click to expand...

Go with a flying tiger blood chit on the back of the jacket. That would look great, also any of the squadron patches for the Flying Tigers as well.

=GG=

Gray Ghost said:

Go with a flying tiger blood chit on the back of the jacket. That would look great, also any of the squadron patches for the Flying Tigers as well.

=GG=

Click to expand...

That would look good, if you do the blood chit have it painted on that way it will age with the jacket and over time look really great!

Flying Tiger

I agree the Flying Tiger patches and Blood Chit look great, and it all works together with a CBI patch (by the way, i also bought the Sean Collins CBI patch because the original may not be wearable). My question is, how much does a patch or a painting impair the flexibility of the leather? This is going to be my everyday jacket. I need it to work and not just be a fashion statement. Thanks.