Johnny Depp told to drop the hats by Vanessa Paradis

Tiller · Sep 19, 2011

fmw said:
It would depend on the suit and the fedora, I suppose. He's a great actor. Not a great dresser.

If he dressed like he did in Public Enemies I'd say he had an amazing sense of style. Wearing eight random pieces of clothing together and pretending you don't care what people think is not the definition of style.

If fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months, then style is a form of beauty that can't even be destroyed after one hundred years of trying by the fashionable.

jlee562 · Sep 19, 2011

I've said it once and I'll say it again: to say Johnny Depp lacks style is flatly inaccurate. He has his own defined sense of style. Some people like it, some people hate it. But he definitely has a "look" about him which is consistently applied. One may not like it, but to insist that it is not a style - which is defined as being distinctive or particular in nature - is just silly.

Tiller · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
I've said it once and I'll say it again: to say Johnny Depp lacks style is flatly inaccurate. He has his own defined sense of style. Some people like it, some people hate it. But he definitely has a "look" about him which is consistently applied. One may not like it, but to insist that it is not a style - which is defined as being distinctive or particular in nature - is just silly.

I'd suggest he has a fashionable look that works for him. To suggest though that seventy years in the future their will be people writing about the clothing choices of Mr. Depp the same way people have written about the likes of Cary Grant, or Fred Astaire, is folly. In the long run I believe Depp's style will be looked at as a clothing choice of the era he lived in, the same way the Sonny Bono's style in the late 60's and 70's is today. He won't be a standard bearer in the same way that Grant and Astaire are.

jlee562 · Sep 19, 2011

Tiller said:
I'd suggest he has a fashionable look that works for him. To suggest though that seventy years in the future their will be people writing about the clothing choices of Mr. Depp the same way people have written about the likes of Cary Grant, or Fred Astaire, is folly. In the long run I believe Depp's style will be looked at as a clothing choice of the era he lived in, the same way the Sonny Bono's style in the late 60's and 70's is today. He won't be a standard bearer in the same way that Grant and Astaire are.

And I make no such suggestion implicitly or explicitly.

I would however, make a similar argument for Grant and Astaire. They are not fashion icons for the current epoch of history. They are remembered for being fashionable for their era, but it is extremely uncommon to encounter someone who seeks to emulate the Cary Grant look on the street today. Of course, there is a higher number of people who appreciate fashion from that era on this particular website, but the "Fred Astaire look" is not highly sought after by designers who are "in vogue" in the current moment.

Tomasso · Sep 19, 2011

rue said:
I bought her album and it pretty much sucked, at least to me.

Yeah, I kinda like her French songs but her English stuff leaves me cold. And I hate sound superficial but I find those gap teeth somewhat off putting.[huh]

monbla256 · Sep 19, 2011

As found in Merriam-Webster: "Definition of STYLE
1: designation, title
2a : a distinctive manner of expression (as in writing or speech) <writes with more attention to style than to content> <the flowery style of 18th century prose> b : a distinctive manner or custom of behaving or conducting oneself <the formal style of the court> <his style is abrasive>; also : a particular mode of living <in high style> c : a particular manner or technique by which something is done, created, or performed <a unique style of horseback riding> <the classical style of dance>"

One may not like it nor want to like it,but I would say he has it

Marc Chevalier · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
....it is extremely uncommon to encounter someone who seeks to emulate the Cary Grant look on the street today.

What you say is very true.

The few dedicated emulators that exist tend to fall in one of two camps: either wealthy Italians, Frenchmen, Britons, Japanese and Manhattanites who have their clothing custom made by established, high-priced tailors ... or decidedly non-wealthy men worldwide who amass their vintage and new apparel from estate sales, thrift shops, online auctions, Brooks Brothers shops and Ralph Lauren stores.

rue · Sep 19, 2011

A.C. Lyles said:
Yeah, I kinda like her French songs but her English stuff leaves me cold. And I hate sound superficial but I find those gap teeth somewhat off putting.[huh]

I see what you mean....

As far as his style.... you men probably wouldn't understand this, but he's so good looking that he could wear a paper bag and make it stylish. Very few men in the world can do what he does and get away with it, in my opinion and this is coming from a woman that loves men in suits [huh]

Tiller · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
And I make no such suggestion implicitly or explicitly.

I would however, make a similar argument for Grant and Astaire. They are not fashion icons for the current epoch of history. They are remembered for being fashionable for their era, but it is extremely uncommon to encounter someone who seeks to emulate the Cary Grant look on the street today. Of course, there is a higher number of people who appreciate fashion from that era on this particular website, but the "Fred Astaire look" is not highly sought after by designers who are "in vogue" in the current moment.

I've made this point multiple times and will continue to, people in the fashion world and those who seek to become "fashionable" are hardly the stalwarts of style. To tell me that "fashion designers" of today aren't emulating Grant is about as relevant as claiming that modern weapons designers don't care about Carl von Clausewitz. It isn't addressing the point I make with regards to the difference between something that is fashionable today, and something that is stylish threw countless eras.

Grant and Astaire's clothing choices from seventy years ago are still emulated today, and have been emulated since they worn them. You can find them being copied in one form or another from the 1940s (and before) to today. On the other hand the fashion choices of other previous decades do not have the same staying power. Mr. Depp's style last today. I'm willing to bet that you will not being seeing my Grandchildren trying to emulate him the same way I've tried to emulate the fashion giants of my Grandfather's era. Nor are you going to see books entitled "Johnny Depp A Celebration of Style".

I see no evidence that Depp's fashion choices are going to last. To make my point simply Depp's aesthetic is in now, it won't be in fifty years. On the other hand if someone wore a suit in the same style that Grant wore in 1939 you would still look good in 1989. Even today if I walked down the streets of a major city in a suit that was cut in a way that emulated one of Grant's suits I would hardly be noticed, because such fashion has proven the test of time. The flavors of the year on the other hand or "what is is vogue" today won't have the same power of style. It isn't timeless.

jlee562 · Sep 19, 2011

Tiller said:
I've made this point multiple times and will continue to, people in the fashion world and those who seek to become "fashionable" are hardly the stalwarts of style. To tell me that "fashion designers" of today aren't emulating Grant is about as relevant as claiming that modern weapons designers don't care about Carl von Clausewitz. It isn't addressing the point I make with regards to the difference between something that is fashionable today, and something that is stylish threw countless eras.

Grant and Astaire's clothing choices from seventy years ago are still emulated today, and have been emulated since they worn them. You can find them being copied in one form or another from the 1940s (and before) to today. On the other hand the fashion choices of other previous decades do not have the same staying power. Mr. Depp's style last today. I'm willing to bet that you will not being seeing my Grandchildren trying to emulate him the same way I've tried to emulate the fashion giants of my Grandfather's era. Nor are you going to see books entitled "Johnny Depp A Celebration of Style".

I see no evidence that Depp's fashion choices are going to last. To make my point simply Depp's aesthetic is in now, it won't be in fifty years. On the other hand if someone wore a suit in the same style that Grant wore in 1939 you would still look good in 1989. Even today if I walked down the streets of a major city in a suit that was cut in a way that emulated one of Grant's suits I would hardly be noticed, because such fashion has proven the test of time. The flavors of the year on the other hand or "what is is vogue" today won't have the same power of style. It isn't timeless.

Actually, Clausewitz is very much still in vogue within the appropriate circles, so is Sun Tzu.

You first try to brush off my point by saying that it doesn't matter if Grant is emulated, then you go on to say that he is emulated.

Ooook...

You are correct to assert that wearing a well tailored suit is considered fashionably regardless of the time period. But the styles of suits which are regarded as fashionable change. Let's take someone like, George Clooney, who is generally considered to be a pretty fashionable guy, and is generally regarded as one of the top leading men in Hollywood similar to Cary Grant at his heyday. George Clooney would not be caught dead wearing a double breasted suit, or a suit with lapels as wide as Cary Grant. It's NOT fashionable today. I hate to break it to you, but the Golden Era is not timeless, no matter how much you may think it so. Yes, it is true, that people still emulate such clothing choices. And as I said, there is a disproportionate representation of folks like that here.

Sure, a good suit and a tie is a timeless look.

But that doesn't make every suit and every tie a timeless look.

As I said, I make no such suggestion that Johnny Depp will be considered fashionable in 50 years, although I'd wager his chances are better than you give them. My only objection was to say, as you did, that he does not have style. He does have style, it's just not one you care for. And you have since already conceded that point.

HatsEnough · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
But that doesn't make every suit and every tie a timeless look.

Wait... you mean my 5-inch-wide belly warmer tie in bright yellow with the palm tree on it isn't timeless?

Come on. It goes with everything!

Marc Chevalier · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
George Clooney would not be caught dead wearing a double breasted suit, or a suit with lapels as wide as Cary Grant. It's NOT fashionable today.

Agreed again.

With the exception of Tom Ford (and this only applies to certain details on his jackets), virtually nobody (certain bespoke tailors excepted) is currently making clothes in the styles worn by Astaire and Grant during their heyday.

Yes, there was a window of time between the mid 1980s and the late '90s when some mid-to-high end clothiers and designers (think Alan Flusser, Garrick Anderson, Avery Lucas, Ralph Lauren and even J. Crew and J. Peterman) produced Astaire/Grant wear. But those days are gone.

RBH · Sep 19, 2011

rue said:
Nice avatar by the way RBH

Thank You Ma'am.

LoveMyHats2 · Sep 19, 2011

HatsEnough said:
Wait... you mean my 5-inch-wide belly warmer tie in bright yellow with the palm tree on it isn't timeless?

Come on. It goes with everything!

It better or I am in trouble wearing the one's I wear! lol!

LoveMyHats2 · Sep 19, 2011

jlee562 said:
Actually, Clausewitz is very much still in vogue within the appropriate circles, so is Sun Tzu.

You first try to brush off my point by saying that it doesn't matter if Grant is emulated, then you go on to say that he is emulated.

Ooook...

You are correct to assert that wearing a well tailored suit is considered fashionably regardless of the time period. But the styles of suits which are regarded as fashionable change. Let's take someone like, George Clooney, who is generally considered to be a pretty fashionable guy, and is generally regarded as one of the top leading men in Hollywood similar to Cary Grant at his heyday. George Clooney would not be caught dead wearing a double breasted suit, or a suit with lapels as wide as Cary Grant. It's NOT fashionable today. I hate to break it to you, but the Golden Era is not timeless, no matter how much you may think it so. Yes, it is true, that people still emulate such clothing choices. And as I said, there is a disproportionate representation of folks like that here.

Sure, a good suit and a tie is a timeless look.

But that doesn't make every suit and every tie a timeless look.

As I said, I make no such suggestion that Johnny Depp will be considered fashionable in 50 years, although I'd wager his chances are better than you give them. My only objection was to say, as you did, that he does not have style. He does have style, it's just not one you care for. And you have since already conceded that point.

You bring some valid issues here. And as far as all things being "in fashion" as to merely being a nice suit, think of the suits that maybe no one ever owned, a leisure suit, (well, I never owned one) did not think it looked nice then (back in the day) and still do not think it looks nice.

That being said, I do have clothing items that are from the time period (1930's) and have things I wear in my attire, that are from time periods that have come and gone. I always get compliments. I also always dress for how I enjoy dressing and do not mind what anyone else would think.

It may be , Mr. Depp has his own way of dressing and he could care less what time period it may look like or what fashion label hangs on the coat.

The wide lapels are not what is in fashion, as far as what is being sold and such, but I have them along with one's that are more narrow. I own a few suits and dinner jackets from Lanvin of Paris, and they vary in how wide or narrow the lapels are.

jlee562 · Sep 20, 2011

LoveMyHats2 said:
You bring some valid issues here. And as far as all things being "in fashion" as to merely being a nice suit, think of the suits that maybe no one ever owned, a leisure suit, (well, I never owned one) did not think it looked nice then (back in the day) and still do not think it looks nice.

That being said, I do have clothing items that are from the time period (1930's) and have things I wear in my attire, that are from time periods that have come and gone. I always get compliments. I also always dress for how I enjoy dressing and do not mind what anyone else would think.

It may be , Mr. Depp has his own way of dressing and he could care less what time period it may look like or what fashion label hangs on the coat.

The wide lapels are not what is in fashion, as far as what is being sold and such, but I have them along with one's that are more narrow. I own a few suits and dinner jackets from Lanvin of Paris, and they vary in how wide or narrow the lapels are.

Well, I feel a bit weird opining about fashion, I'm a guy whose outfits consists mostly of jeans and t-shirts (and hats of course!). I certainly don't mean to say that all things from the past should never be worn. My personal outlook on fashion is that the most important critic is one's self. I don't wear clothes that I don't feel comfortable wearing (in both a physical and mental sense). We seem to agree on this point.

I just think Tiller's position lacks any logical coherence. He asserts that fashion designers know nothing about style, and that it is irrelevant for me to point out that they are not emulating Grant and Astaire. Then continues to say that Depp will not be emulated in the future, and that Grant and Astaire are emulating, making them timeless. But emulated by who? I can't think of anybody who is widely considered "fashionable" that emulates the style of the 30's-40's. Certainly one can find elements of style in more contemporary looks, but the "look" of the 30's and 40's is not "timeless." If you stepped out on the street in a boxier, double breasted suit with wide lapels, you would stick out. And if it is not relevant to point out that the Golden Era is not being emulated by leading fashion designers, why is it relevant to ask whether or not Johnny Depp will be emulated in 50 years?

And I want to be clear that it is not my intention to demean or otherwise degrade those who choose to dress this way. I do pop into the general attire forum from time to time and I have to say that this look works quite well for the population here.

But as Marc Chevalier points out, you can't just walk into a store and buy a new suit that looks like a suit from the 30's and the 40's because that style simply is not fashionable for a marketable portion of today's population.

Ultimately I think Johnny Depp will be remembered as a talented actor who has a unique and eccentric style of dress.

Sam Craig · Sep 20, 2011

A.C. Lyles said:
Actually, she is quite an accomplished singer and actress in France.

[video=youtube;Dszl1YoH68M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dszl1YoH68M&feature=fvwrel[/video]

And she's been a Chanel girl for ages.

[video=youtube;F16dAIXc-ow]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F16dAIXc-ow&feature=related[/video]

Whatever .....

Ship the hats to me ... I'll make sure everyone gets their fair share.

Sam

rue · Sep 20, 2011

You crack me up Sam lol

Tiller · Sep 20, 2011

jlee562 said:
George Clooney would not be caught dead wearing a double breasted suit, or a suit with lapels as wide as Cary Grant. It's NOT fashionable today. I hate to break it to you, but the Golden Era is not timeless, no matter how much you may think it so. Yes, it is true, that people still emulate such clothing choices. And as I said, there is a disproportionate representation of folks like that here.

I was going to address your points more, and also attempt to prove further what I was saying, but honestly after reading this I'm done here. This is suppose to be a place that is suppose to be talking about the Golden Age and the lovers of the style talking about it. Sorry I thought this was the place for me, but I've seen to many of your hipster types around here lately. I'm just not comfortable here anymore. I'll pay my tab and I'm gone. Someone just delete my account. I'm done with this dive, this place just doesn't attract the clientele I'm interested in spending time with anymore.

Check please. Someone just please delete my account.

Marc Chevalier · Sep 20, 2011

Tiller said:
Someone just please delete my account.

... so that you won't be tempted to post again?

Johnny Depp told to drop the hats by Vanessa Paradis

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